Grand jury released 888 pages on Catholic priest sex abuse

[KenyanPlato]

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https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/08/14/pennsylvania-diocese-sex-abuse-grand-jury-report-released/

[GeeMail]

Just gross. Why is Pope Francis for the Roman Catholic Church not on the dock at the ICC yet?

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

The Vatican refused to comment. 

I suspect this reflects badly on the character traits of those folks who opt for the celibate priesthood.  The church might want to actually require non-celibacy as a pre-condition.

[Kichwa]

I do not think celibacy is the cause because non-celibates have also been known to engage in such behaviors. We also know that there are many celibates who do not engage in such.

The Vatican refused to comment. 

I suspect this reflects badly on the character traits of those folks who opt for the celibate priesthood.  The church might want to actually require non-celibacy as a pre-condition.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I do not think celibacy is the cause because non-celibates have also been known to engage in such behaviors. We also know that there are many celibates who do not engage in such.

The Vatican refused to comment. 

I suspect this reflects badly on the character traits of those folks who opt for the celibate priesthood.  The church might want to actually require non-celibacy as a pre-condition.

Yabbut these rates are high.  To be fair, I don't have the overall stats.  But this is just Pennsylvania in a single religion.  Some folks(not all of course) with certain tendencies might find the priesthood an unusually attractive avenue to sate their impulses.

[vooke]

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I think it's reporting.  This is over a period of time like 20 years.  So each of those years that the abuses were happening but not being reported is reported at once.  In other words, the abuses may be no different today than they were ten years ago.  Also, the church's attitude is generally unhelpful.  I was watching a news report this morning saying that they tried to use statutes of limitations to suppress even this report.

[GeeMail]

If this happened in any other denomination (e.g. Dini ya Mshamba) it would have been proscribed, banned and consigned to the dustbins of history. Yet we have the Roman Catholic Church pouting its nose all over the world and its head leading global causes for justice and peace. The Bible says it was wounded, the wound healed and all the world wondered after the beast.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

If this happened in any other denomination (e.g. Dini ya Mshamba) it would have been proscribed, banned and consigned to the dustbins of history. Yet we have the Roman Catholic Church pouting its nose all over the world and its head leading global causes for justice and peace. The Bible says it was wounded, the wound healed and all the world wondered after the beast.

I am surprised Pope Francis - the most enlightened of popes in my lifetime - has chosen to go with the flow on this one. 

[GeeMail]

Will Trump sweep this under the carpet like a ripple from Russia?

[vooke]

I think it's reporting.  This is over a period of time like 20 years.  So each of those years that the abuses were happening but not being reported is reported at once.  In other words, the abuses may be no different today than they were ten years ago.  Also, the church's attitude is generally unhelpful.  I was watching a news report this morning saying that they tried to use statutes of limitations to suppress even this report.

Ok.


Just asking legal minds
How exactly do you prove decades old sex assault cases some of which happened to very young victims?

[KenyanPlato]

I think it's reporting.  This is over a period of time like 20 years.  So each of those years that the abuses were happening but not being reported is reported at once.  In other words, the abuses may be no different today than they were ten years ago.  Also, the church's attitude is generally unhelpful.  I was watching a news report this morning saying that they tried to use statutes of limitations to suppress even this report.

Ok.


Just asking legal minds
How exactly do you prove decades old sex assault cases some of which happened to very young victims?

Document evidence. The Catholic bishops kept meticulous records. Some of these cases were settled out of court. The Catholic dioceses had secret files documenting this. Most of victims testimony is enough to put these peodophiles to jail. The Catholic Church has a cult like culture that will allow it to weather this storm. Unfortunately these priests are still molesting kids even today. Remember most parents of these kids are deadbeats or fanatics. In Kenya Catholic priest peodophiles recruit from the most poor families. They brainwash these kids to extent they think molestation is ordained by God.

[KenyanPlato]

My nephew was schooling in a Catholic primary school. My aunts raised hell till he was moved out of the school. Now I understand why they did it. Having interacted with a few Catholic priest. I have come to understand how some of them are flawed and are priests because of money, power and sex. One of them I know preys on upper class widows.

[GeeMail]

so KP, what's the public reaction to this? Are you in Pa? It's so sickening to just imagine what happened to so many children in the place they should be best protected by the people one least suspects.

[KenyanPlato]

No I live in Maryland. I was vacationing in PA. Catholics are sad and people are angry. The Catholic Church leadership is being blamed. The repercussions will be severe. I see all recommendations being implemented resulting in more arrests and bankrupting of dioceses. This will really make a lot of moderate in the Catholic Church to quit and leave religion all together. Religion is losing aot of ground in USA and by 2050 most churches will have closed doors for good

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

My nephew was schooling in a Catholic primary school. My aunts raised hell till he was moved out of the school. Now I understand why they did it. Having interacted with a few Catholic priest. I have come to understand how some of them are flawed and are priests because of money, power and sex. One of them I know preys on upper class widows.

IMO Catholic Schools have tended to provide good quality education in Kenya.  All aside from what one may feel about large groups of celibate men which is admittedly not normal. 

In retrospect I do see a few things off with many priests I have encountered.  Behaviors some of which I now recognize as betraying sexual preferences rather than just priestly weirdness.

For quite a few, it may be the refuge they need from a society intolerant of certain sexual orientations.  Some may be perfectly harmless gays.  Others may just have a preference for kids and church is an easy avenue. 

Regardless of which, the church attracts an unusual concentration of odd sexualities just by sheer celibacy.

[GeeMail]

People losing interest in church on account of Catholic predilections would be most unfortunate. The Catholic church is not even Christian in many respects. It has many skeletons dating back to the Dark Ages. Some estimates say millions of deaths during the inquisition and counter-reformation. It should be topping the world's terror list. The question of being a "harmless gay" priest is a self-contradictory oxymoron.

[KenyanPlato]

You are right. However in kikuyu where I am from gays were not harrased nor were other sexualities such bisexual and asexual people. It is only that Christianity created superficial hate of gays and bastardized traditions. Anyway most of asexual men tend to hang with Catholic priest so there is truth in what you observed. Gay men in Africa too tend to work for Catholics. The churi h is liberal enough to allow them certain freedoms and access to lifestyles that would get them killed in their community

[GeeMail]

Moon Ki, I'd be glad to hear why nobody has dared to take this thing to ICC. Australia had explosive stories, UK and now US here. Why has none of the pro bono, public cause advocates and activists not taken this up? Is it because Papa Francis is likable fella so they might be waiting for a fall guy some time?

[MOON Ki]

Moon Ki, I'd be glad to hear why nobody has dared to take this thing to ICC. Australia had explosive stories, UK and now US here. Why has none of the pro bono, public cause advocates and activists not taken this up? Is it because Papa Francis is likable fella so they might be waiting for a fall guy some time?

To my mind, there surely are crimes against humanity going on here.   And they have been going on for thousands of years by this particular lot, even accounting for the fact that the definition of "crimes against humanity" constantly changes.   Still, I see it, it would be quite a task to fit the crimes to the current statutes, and that would only be the beginning.   Here you would have a very different lot in the dock---way more muscle than we've seen of the  perps. I'm not into any conspiracy theory here, but can you imagine how many "upright pillar-of-the-community"s are involved in this sort of thing? Of course, one must nevertheless fight, but it doesn't hurt to get a good measure of the size of the brute ...

In any case, I see the ICC as hopelessly damaged, and I say that with deep regret, given that I was once a very strong supporter of the organization.   I might say a bit more about that later, but it seems to me that those who see themselves as in-charge have decided that the Africans etc. are always minded to finish off  themselves and that the best can be done is to have an appearance of justice.