GoK Very Broke again and we're talking Big 4 agenda?

[GeeMail]

In some ways tano tena was the right thing. When you rear a skunk, the stink should stay in your own house.

[gout]

Governments never gets broke as such, they just squeeze the taxpayers harder and with tribal cheering squads there is little opposition.

[GeeMail]

It was coming all along.

[Georgesoros]

Treasury seek debt manager https://twitter.com/search?q=david%20ndii&src=typd its clear now there's debt crisis. What do we have to show for $50b debt? If elections were held today uhuru wouldn't get more than 60% in mt.kenya region. Everyone is complaining about the economy.

HK,
You and Pundit gave me a finger when I said five years ago that the govt is spending too much. Pundit said "economy will outgrow".  The time has come to accepr the verdict and cut spending. All govt workers who earn more than 300K should either pay 50% tak\x or have salary cut. Entertainment expenses should be taxed as regular income, reduce VAT to 10% except on luxury items, etc.

[KenyanPlato]

Raila as usual conning intellectually lazy kisumu residents

https://www.mwakilishi.com/article/kenya-news/2018-09-02/president-uhuru-will-stop-this-raila-assures-kenyans-on-hiked-fuel-prices?cid=h

How will the debt be serviced, if uhuru doesn't get 16 percent from fuel?

[hk]

Treasury seek debt manager https://twitter.com/search?q=david%20ndii&src=typd its clear now there's debt crisis. What do we have to show for $50b debt? If elections were held today uhuru wouldn't get more than 60% in mt.kenya region. Everyone is complaining about the economy.

HK,
You and Pundit gave me a finger when I said five years ago that the govt is spending too much. Pundit said "economy will outgrow".  The time has come to accepr the verdict and cut spending. All govt workers who earn more than 300K should either pay 50% tak\x or have salary cut. Entertainment expenses should be taxed as regular income, reduce VAT to 10% except on luxury items, etc.

Five years ago even jubilee government first budget wasn't implemented. The problem is negative return on investment and obvious excesses. If the more than $20b jubilee borrowed was invested in the right projects government would have maintained low budget deficits. Kwani how many government workers make more than 300k? This would raise almost negligible amounts. I have always advocated for lower taxation especially on paye its starts at as little as 14k per month and the 30% rate kicks in at 35k per month. This is one the reason why we have a large informal sector. Informal sectors means our taxebase is very narrow. The solution for now is to slush the budget from $26b to manageable $20b. I can remember highlighting the size of our budget compared to other countries with similar economy size.Reduction on VAT has to be done in tandem with reduction of the budget.   

[vooke]

Living beyond our means, and yes, we will pay dearly

[RV Pundit]

Uhuru is just radar-less with ongoing war against the economy - I see very tough times ahead. Sugar sector now a mess. Matiangi is out there creating one mess after another. Tobiko is out there doing the same in forestry and enviroment. Uhuru is destroying huge business in Nairobi without recourse to any law.To make matters worse - he has now added VAT on fuel and other taxes that are unbearable.

The economy cannot take too much hits. Uhuru should let Ruto ran the economy. Tivets are starting to do well, SGR, roads, water and such ideas being overseen by Ruto.

[Kadudu]

You are not serious. Since when did Ruto have anything to do with the running of any ministry's department? Look at KPC, KPLC, NCPB etc where he has his henchmen. All ridden with corruption.

Uhuru is just radar-less with ongoing war against the economy - I see very tough times ahead. Sugar sector now a mess. Matiangi is out there creating one mess after another. Tobiko is out there doing the same in forestry and enviroment. Uhuru is destroying huge business in Nairobi without recourse to any law.To make matters worse - he has now added VAT on fuel and other taxes that are unbearable.

The economy cannot take too much hits. Uhuru should let Ruto ran the economy. Tivets are starting to do well, SGR, roads, water and such ideas being overseen by Ruto.

[GeeMail]

Pundit wants his friends given a chance to eat.

[Georgesoros]

Treasury seek debt manager https://twitter.com/search?q=david%20ndii&src=typd its clear now there's debt crisis. What do we have to show for $50b debt? If elections were held today uhuru wouldn't get more than 60% in mt.kenya region. Everyone is complaining about the economy.

HK,
You and Pundit gave me a finger when I said five years ago that the govt is spending too much. Pundit said "economy will outgrow".  The time has come to accepr the verdict and cut spending. All govt workers who earn more than 300K should either pay 50% tak\x or have salary cut. Entertainment expenses should be taxed as regular income, reduce VAT to 10% except on luxury items, etc.

Five years ago even jubilee government first budget wasn't implemented. The problem is negative return on investment and obvious excesses. If the more than $20b jubilee borrowed was invested in the right projects government would have maintained low budget deficits. Kwani how many government workers make more than 300k? This would raise almost negligible amounts. I have always advocated for lower taxation especially on paye its starts at as little as 14k per month and the 30% rate kicks in at 35k per month. This is one the reason why we have a large informal sector. Informal sectors means our taxebase is very narrow. The solution for now is to slush the budget from $26b to manageable $20b. I can remember highlighting the size of our budget compared to other countries with similar economy size.Reduction on VAT has to be done in tandem with reduction of the budget.   

HK. Taxation has to start somewhere. MPIGs get a million/month. That is 2 billion right there. The day there is fair taxation is the day the country will start progressing. Taxing input like gasoline only hurts the regular guy.
Yes the informal sector should pay tax so the money can be invested in modern infrastructure. Property values also needs to be taxed to pay for a top class primary school education. Every inch of land should be taxed, except farmland. Too many kids are under privileged because parents cant afford to pay for basic education.

[Georgesoros]

https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2018/09/03/jubilees-crushing-tax-burden-sparks-outrage_c1812211

the only people who pay tax are working class.

[Nefertiti]

If you want to measure fairness of taxation just compute over GDP. Kenya's at 17% of GDP while efficient collectors clock 30%. Of course the rich don't pay fair tax in Kenya. This is an institutional failure and KRA must improve to net everyone. MPs or the well connected are few - KRA needs to borrow expertise from the HMRC or IRS and such - it's a matter of being able to accurately account for all incomes starting with the formal economy. Very few people declare their full incomes voluntarily and not just in Kenya. That's why you have tax havens where even corps stash profits for years. It's not so much corruption or politics but KRA's technical incompetence.

[hk]

HK. Taxation has to start somewhere. MPIGs get a million/month. That is 2 billion right there. The day there is fair taxation is the day the country will start progressing. Taxing input like gasoline only hurts the regular guy.
Yes the informal sector should pay tax so the money can be invested in modern infrastructure. Property values also needs to be taxed to pay for a top class primary school education. Every inch of land should be taxed, except farmland. Too many kids are under privileged because parents cant afford to pay for basic education.

Mps actually are taxed at 35% rate the highest in the land. Maybe the allowance aren't taxed but their salary is. https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/economy/Rotich-hits-top-income-earners-with-35pc-tax/3946234-4562256-82fs4x/index.html . Its only the formal sector that pays income tax. Treasury should be broadening the taxbase while lowering overall taxation rate. A flat rate of about 10% would be a could start to match the rate landlords are paying. We have millionaires farmers and traders who don't pay income tax while a watchman making 15k is paying 10% paye. In essence government should be formalizing the economy instead of heavily taxing formal sector which alternately
 forces people to operate informally.

[RV Pundit]

Total agree. KRA been sleeping on the job for years now. Treasury should targets and if KRA can't meet them  - KRA commissioners should be fired pronto.

If you want to measure fairness of taxation just compute over GDP. Kenya's at 17% of GDP while efficient collectors clock 30%. Of course the rich don't pay fair tax in Kenya. This is an institutional failure and KRA must improve to net everyone. MPs or the well connected are few - KRA needs to borrow expertise from the HMRC or IRS and such - it's a matter of being able to accurately account for all incomes starting with the formal economy. Very few people declare their full incomes voluntarily and not just in Kenya. That's why you have tax havens where even corps stash profits for years. It's not so much corruption or politics but KRA's technical incompetence.

[RV Pundit]

I think M-pesa will give us the tools we need to formalize the economy. Treasury & CBK need to remove big denomination from circulation - 1K & 500K - and that will force many people to pay through electronic means - and those transactions can be taxed - and it's won't matter if you're formal or informal.  Cash based economy still thrive when we have built infrastructure to go fully digital. This need to happen as asap. Once that is done...Treasury can start taxing transactions....and it will collect it money without sweating.

India's Mondi is doing this - and this one way to stop graft - because it would be tough to be carting 100shs notes!!

Mps actually are taxed at 35% rate the highest in the land. Maybe the allowance aren't taxed but their salary is. https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/economy/Rotich-hits-top-income-earners-with-35pc-tax/3946234-4562256-82fs4x/index.html . Its only the formal sector that pays income tax. Treasury should be broadening the taxbase while lowering overall taxation rate. A flat rate of about 10% would be a could start to match the rate landlords are paying. We have millionaires farmers and traders who don't pay income tax while a watchman making 15k is paying 10% paye. In essence government should be formalizing the economy instead of heavily taxing formal sector which alternately
 forces people to operate informally.

[Georgesoros]

HK. Taxation has to start somewhere. MPIGs get a million/month. That is 2 billion right there. The day there is fair taxation is the day the country will start progressing. Taxing input like gasoline only hurts the regular guy.
Yes the informal sector should pay tax so the money can be invested in modern infrastructure. Property values also needs to be taxed to pay for a top class primary school education. Every inch of land should be taxed, except farmland. Too many kids are under privileged because parents cant afford to pay for basic education.

Mps actually are taxed at 35% rate the highest in the land. Maybe the allowance aren't taxed but their salary is. https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/economy/Rotich-hits-top-income-earners-with-35pc-tax/3946234-4562256-82fs4x/index.html . Its only the formal sector that pays income tax. Treasury should be broadening the taxbase while lowering overall taxation rate. A flat rate of about 10% would be a could start to match the rate landlords are paying. We have millionaires farmers and traders who don't pay income tax while a watchman making 15k is paying 10% paye. In essence government should be formalizing the economy instead of heavily taxing formal sector which alternately
 forces people to operate informally.

ll income should be taxed, including entertainment. 35% of 1million is 650k. Thats a  lot of cash in Kenya.
If I own a large tract of land and plant watermelons every year and collect 2million yearly I pay zero tax. Yes KRA is a failure chasing after watchmen while billionaires own and rent out mansions tax free.

[Georgesoros]

If you want to measure fairness of taxation just compute over GDP. Kenya's at 17% of GDP while efficient collectors clock 30%. Of course the rich don't pay fair tax in Kenya. This is an institutional failure and KRA must improve to net everyone. MPs or the well connected are few - KRA needs to borrow expertise from the HMRC or IRS and such - it's a matter of being able to accurately account for all incomes starting with the formal economy. Very few people declare their full incomes voluntarily and not just in Kenya. That's why you have tax havens where even corps stash profits for years. It's not so much c

If you want to measure fairness of taxation just compute over GDP. Kenya's at 17% of GDP while efficient collectors clock 30%. Of course the rich don't pay fair tax in Kenya. This is an institutional failure and KRA must improve to net everyone. MPs or the well connected are few - KRA needs to borrow expertise from the HMRC or IRS and such - it's a matter of being able to accurately account for all incomes starting with the formal economy. Very few people declare their full incomes voluntarily and not just in Kenya. That's why you have tax havens where even corps stash profits for years. It's not so much corruption or politics but KRA's technical incompetence.

EXACTLY!!

[patel]

How will Ruto run the economy differently? we said Uhuru need to reshuffle the cabinet pronto and bring in experts, URP wing of the government refused and said we need to stay the course....what would change?

Uhuru is just radar-less with ongoing war against the economy - I see very tough times ahead. Sugar sector now a mess. Matiangi is out there creating one mess after another. Tobiko is out there doing the same in forestry and enviroment. Uhuru is destroying huge business in Nairobi without recourse to any law.To make matters worse - he has now added VAT on fuel and other taxes that are unbearable.

The economy cannot take too much hits. Uhuru should let Ruto ran the economy. Tivets are starting to do well, SGR, roads, water and such ideas being overseen by Ruto.

[Kadudu]

God help Kenya when akina Pundit take over the govt. Kenya is already on its knees and Ruto will plunder that country dry. He and his cohorts have no manners even when looting.

How will Ruto run the economy differently? we said Uhuru need to reshuffle the cabinet pronto and bring in experts, URP wing of the government refused and said we need to stay the course....what would change?