Who wants to bet that in 15yrs Turkey will be like Afghanistan

[Georgesoros]

• Tweet

Hhe guy wants more power and it seems to be unchecked power. A danger to neighboring states. He is worse than Putin.

[RV Pundit]

Turkey is a developed country that is part of EU. It cannot become Afghanistan.

Hhe guy wants more power and it seems to be unchecked power. A danger to neighboring states. He is worse than Putin.

[Omollo]

Hhe guy wants more power and it seems to be unchecked power. A danger to neighboring states. He is worse than Putin.

I am not sure about the two things you have stated:

1. Comparison with Afghanistan
2. Megalomania for Erdogan

I think if the US leaves Afghanistan and others like Russia stay out, it will be like Turkey in less time and not the opposite.

That said, Turkey is paying for the sins of being islamic in Europe. The hate is not against the "country" but against the religion that the people have chosen.

The fact that there is a European country that is muslim and doing well is counter to the accepted popular narrative of the West.

Also look at the demographics of europe List of European countries by population

[Omollo]

It is not part of the EU in any form or shape

Turkey is a developed country that is part of EU. It cannot become Afghanistan.

Hhe guy wants more power and it seems to be unchecked power. A danger to neighboring states. He is worse than Putin.

[RV Pundit]

I take that - I thought they became EU - look like the process stalled. In any case Turkey is rapidly growing developed nation.

It is not part of the EU in any form or shape

[Omollo]

They applied well before ALL the former communist countries. ALL those former communist states are now full members of the EU or on the way to joining. Turkey is rejected.

I believe ALL the former Yugoslav republics will join the EU minus Kosovo.

There is serious Islamophobia within the EU.

I take that - I thought they became EU - look like the process stalled. In any case Turkey is rapidly growing developed nation.

It is not part of the EU in any form or shape

[Omollo]

Erdogan simply decided to call the whole membership application thing as the bluff it always was and set about rebuilding Turkey's identity as a Muslim state.

The bootlicking generals tried to overthrow him and he turned it against them. He used the opportunity to purge the Judiciary, military and civil service (which in Turkey is an extension not of the Executive but Judiciary with magistrates etc).

The last election (yesterday) is what Pundit calls "Fuck You Election". He gave the EU the middle finger. The opposition has been told if they start trouble by claiming rigging and such things they will pay a huge price.

I do not think the elections were rigged in Turkey proper. But I think they engineered the Kurdish areas to keep them out of Parliament.

[RV Pundit]

What is their trick - they do not have natural resources - but seem they are getting it right - I guess their position as gateway to europe and asia helps - and well being the ottoman empire - they like Iran - have some huge pride and won't take shiet from EU. I wish Kenya could tap into turkey economic machines - UG, TZ and Somali are benefitting somewhat from them - in Kenya - it only the turkish airline that probably does business here. All despite Moi handing over Occalan (Kurdish leader) to turkey

Erdogan simply decided to call the whole membership application thing as the bluff it always was and set about rebuilding Turkey's identity as a Muslim state.
 
The bootlicking generals tried to overthrow him and he turned it against them. He used the opportunity to purge the Judiciary, military and civil service (which in Turkey is an extension not of the Executive but Judiciary with magistrates etc).

The last election (yesterday) is what Pundit calls "Fuck You Election". He gave the EU the middle finger. The opposition has been told if they start trouble by claiming rigging and such things they will pay a huge price.

I do not think the elections were rigged in Turkey proper. But I think they engineered the Kurdish areas to keep them out of Parliament.

[Omollo]

They have a bit of everything. But their main trick was to be China before China. They simply gave the middle finger to copy rights and such crap. They went into duplicating whatever was in demand - from spare parts to socks.  They banked on the fact that original spares were too expensive for consumers since they were based on monopolies.

They slowly improved on quality and soon could make better spares etc than the original manufacturers. You can call it jua kali if you will.

In some cases the manufacturers grudgingly "licensed" them to officially make the spares (Volkswagen for some of their old cars later new ones) and in others the patents / copy rights simply expired and the Turks came out in the open.

They have oil - they should being so close to Iraq etc. However the oil regions are in troubled areas where Europeans have been supporting rebellions. Nevertheless they produce enough to meet more than half of their needs. But as a big economy they need more oil than they produce.

Locked out of EU, they simply regrouped their Ottoman empire areas of Euro-Asia and looked towards Africa. They found themselves drawn together with the Russians who themselves were locked out. Some of the technology denied Iran and Russia easily reaches them these days through Turkey and they get well paid for it. That is one of the reasons the West if pissed of: Europe out of envy because they would like to have that business; and US both envy and hate.

What is their trick - they do not have natural resources - but seem they are getting it right - I guess their position as gateway to europe and asia helps - and well being the ottoman empire - they like Iran - have some huge pride and won't take shiet from EU. I wish Kenya could tap into turkey economic machines - UG, TZ and Somali are benefitting somewhat from them - in Kenya - it only the turkish airline that probably does business here. All despite Moi handing over Occalan (Kurdish leader) to turkey

Erdogan simply decided to call the whole membership application thing as the bluff it always was and set about rebuilding Turkey's identity as a Muslim state.
 
The bootlicking generals tried to overthrow him and he turned it against them. He used the opportunity to purge the Judiciary, military and civil service (which in Turkey is an extension not of the Executive but Judiciary with magistrates etc).

The last election (yesterday) is what Pundit calls "Fuck You Election". He gave the EU the middle finger. The opposition has been told if they start trouble by claiming rigging and such things they will pay a huge price.

I do not think the elections were rigged in Turkey proper. But I think they engineered the Kurdish areas to keep them out of Parliament.

[RV Pundit]

Make senses.

They have a bit of everything. But their main trick was to be China before China. They simply gave the middle finger to copy rights and such crap. They went into duplicating whatever was in demand - from spare parts to socks.  They banked on the fact that original spares were too expensive for consumers since they were based on monopolies.

They slowly improved on quality and soon could make better spares etc than the original manufacturers. You can call it jua kali if you will.

In some cases the manufacturers grudgingly "licensed" them to officially make the spares (Volkswagen for some of their old cars later new ones) and in others the patents / copy rights simply expired and the Turks came out in the open.

They have oil - they should being so close to Iraq etc. However the oil regions are in troubled areas where Europeans have been supporting rebellions. Nevertheless they produce enough to meet more than half of their needs. But as a big economy they need more oil than they produce.

Locked out of EU, they simply regrouped their Ottoman empire areas of Euro-Asia and looked towards Africa. They found themselves drawn together with the Russians who themselves were locked out. Some of the technology denied Iran and Russia easily reaches them these days through Turkey and they get well paid for it. That is one of the reasons the West if pissed of: Europe out of envy because they would like to have that business; and US both envy and hate.

What is their trick - they do not have natural resources - but seem they are getting it right - I guess their position as gateway to europe and asia helps - and well being the ottoman empire - they like Iran - have some huge pride and won't take shiet from EU. I wish Kenya could tap into turkey economic machines - UG, TZ and Somali are benefitting somewhat from them - in Kenya - it only the turkish airline that probably does business here. All despite Moi handing over Occalan (Kurdish leader) to turkey

Erdogan simply decided to call the whole membership application thing as the bluff it always was and set about rebuilding Turkey's identity as a Muslim state.
 
The bootlicking generals tried to overthrow him and he turned it against them. He used the opportunity to purge the Judiciary, military and civil service (which in Turkey is an extension not of the Executive but Judiciary with magistrates etc).

The last election (yesterday) is what Pundit calls "Fuck You Election". He gave the EU the middle finger. The opposition has been told if they start trouble by claiming rigging and such things they will pay a huge price.

I do not think the elections were rigged in Turkey proper. But I think they engineered the Kurdish areas to keep them out of Parliament.

[Omollo]

Just to add: Both Turkey and China stood no chance if they went overboard over copy rights and such.

India is finally realizing that having wasted time in the 80s raiding businesses for copyrights in exchange for "aid" and being in good books with the West.

In fact most of the so called emerging economies looked the other way and encouraged businesses to steal as much technology as possible. Today they are no longer interested in stealing partially because there is nothing to steal and also because they are now the new targets of industrial spying and poaching (brain drain).

Then there is population. Turkey is almost overtaking Germany as the second most populous state in Europe. However take note that there are millions of Turks in Germany who still consider themselves Turks. That effectively makes Turkey the most populated country in Europe. Turks dominate Europe. Unlike the rest of Europe with a top heavy population, the Turkish population is between balanced and lower heavy.

[Georgesoros]

Turkey is slowly moving from secular to a state sanctioned religious country. kinda joining Iran??? Going by what has happened in the past with Afghanistan, it may not be a good move.

[Omollo]

I don't think so. Turkey is facing a lot of propaganda by multiple vested interests. Some of them are themselve3s enemies of each other but seem to agree on that one thing.

Being secular does not mean you suppress religion. America is supposed to be secular but nobody says Trump's wife cannot dress up in an Akorino outfit and go worship on Sunday or saturday. Kenya is a typical secular state. But Moi and Kibaki spent their sundays in Church.

"Secularism" in Turkey took a completely bizarre turn with the obstructionist military overthrowing popular governments just because the leaders and their wives displayed overt signs of devotion to religion. This approach was eventually going to lead to a clash and I am glad the military lost for now (and hope for ever).

I do not think just because Abdullah Gul's wife wore a scarf as does Erdogan's means Islam has become a state sanctioned religion.

BTW I see nothing wrong with the country accepting that it is a muslim majority country and should respect the religious views and culture of the people. There is a reason why Saturday and Sunday are public holidays in the West while Friday is a holiday elsewhere.

How many countries in Europe do not have a cross in their flags? Yet they claim to be more secular than Turkey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_flags_depicting_a_cross

Turkey is slowly moving from secular to a state sanctioned religious country. kinda joining Iran??? Going by what has happened in the past with Afghanistan, it may not be a good move.

[Nefertiti]

Great insights on  Turkey. I agree what matters is stability, not necessarily secularism or liberal democracy. Iran has a stable theocracy where the "best" ayatollah is picked by a college of experts to be the Supreme Leader. This system enables them to beat western sabboteurs.

Economically the Turks supply Sub Sahara with more textiles,  fashion, fragrances, etc - they beat the Indians and Chinese in this. However in the higher end tech or manufacturing they're yet to catch up with the Chinese and the West. They're second world - the India, Indonesia calibre.