Author Topic: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test  (Read 3967 times)

Offline vooke

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Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« on: June 16, 2018, 09:36:48 AM »
And discriminated Asians

Why on Earth would college kids personality matter during admission?
https://nyti.ms/2HRc6FJ
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline veritas

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2018, 10:52:19 AM »
Shame on Havard.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2018, 05:37:36 PM »
I am with Havard on this.  Personality is very subjective and you cannot sue someone for not finding you likeable :o.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline vooke

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2018, 09:02:40 PM »
I am with Havard on this.  Personality is very subjective and you cannot sue someone for not finding you likeable :o.

But they are saying Asians are unlikeable. What if they said Negroes were not? Negros would burn down the entire place
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2018, 09:38:54 PM »
I am with Havard on this.  Personality is very subjective and you cannot sue someone for not finding you likeable :o .

But they are saying Asians are unlikeable. What if they said Negroes were not? Negros would burn down the entire place

Not really.  Worse things have been said about Negroes and continue to be said.  And done.  When a Negro sues, almost always it's because shit has hit the fan.  Not because some closet Negro supremacist is trying to score some points.  There are too many real grievances to find time for petty ones. 
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline vooke

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2018, 11:13:54 PM »
I am with Havard on this.  Personality is very subjective and you cannot sue someone for not finding you likeable :o .

But they are saying Asians are unlikeable. What if they said Negroes were not? Negros would burn down the entire place

Not really.  Worse things have been said about Negroes and continue to be said.  And done.  When a Negro sues, almost always it's because shit has hit the fan.  Not because some closet Negro supremacist is trying to score some points.  There are too many real grievances to find time for petty ones. 
Remember that these are not mere words,but actions that limit opportunities,Golden opportunities for minorities. I think they have a very solid case.

Ivy League education is not petty by any stretch of imagination
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2018, 11:35:00 PM »
I am with Havard on this.  Personality is very subjective and you cannot sue someone for not finding you likeable :o .

But they are saying Asians are unlikeable. What if they said Negroes were not? Negros would burn down the entire place

Not really.  Worse things have been said about Negroes and continue to be said.  And done.  When a Negro sues, almost always it's because shit has hit the fan.  Not because some closet Negro supremacist is trying to score some points.  There are too many real grievances to find time for petty ones. 
Remember that these are not mere words,but actions that limit opportunities,Golden opportunities for minorities. I think they have a very solid case.

Ivy League education is not petty by any stretch of imagination
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline veritas

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2018, 03:31:26 AM »
It explains why Havard is so behind in research. It's unnatural to stifle racial harmony. Institutions reap what they sow. I'll be boycotting all things Havard and omitting them from announcements.

Offline vooke

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2018, 06:14:11 AM »
I am with Havard on this.  Personality is very subjective and you cannot sue someone for not finding you likeable :o .

But they are saying Asians are unlikeable. What if they said Negroes were not? Negros would burn down the entire place

Not really.  Worse things have been said about Negroes and continue to be said.  And done.  When a Negro sues, almost always it's because shit has hit the fan.  Not because some closet Negro supremacist is trying to score some points.  There are too many real grievances to find time for petty ones. 
Remember that these are not mere words,but actions that limit opportunities,Golden opportunities for minorities. I think they have a very solid case.

Ivy League education is not petty by any stretch of imagination

Overrepresented as far their population proportion is concerned,but still artificially underrepresented.

This is a case of a minority group resisting affirmative action because it works against them
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2018, 12:02:51 PM »
Asians are over represented in the Ivy Leagues, jobs and the economy. They do not qualify for affirmative action. They should therefore be deleted as a minority. It would be like the Jews claiming to be a minority.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline veritas

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2018, 03:18:12 PM »
Wtf Ro? Asians make up less than 2% of the American population. They are a minority group. Jews are a minority group but they're not recognised for their protection and for political reasons. During the war, Jews took up Anglo names. Also even today lots of Jews live in fear and hoarde food in their cupboards I kid you not.

Offline veritas

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2018, 03:27:43 PM »
Ro, I worry how you preach is exactly the same mindset Hitler's psychology advisors brainwashed Germans. It began with Jews are overrepresented in etc. to genocide. Asians should be treated equally regardless. I'm so tired of racist whites assuming asians should be smart which means they have no feelings. That's called racial profiling and if it isn't stopped it breeds hate crimes.

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2018, 04:18:48 PM »
Hmm...I don know about this. It's a tough one. Although it's interesting that Righty people have been citing this case for a few months as an example of how affirmative action is unfair when it appears from this piece that the most advantaged group from these practices is White Americans  :D

Demographics is just one factor of many and I highly doubt that the Courts are going to sanction Harvard for that, even if they sanction them for the others. African Americans face unique challenges in the US that put them at a distinct and unique disadvantage long before they even sit their SATs. Only a cold heart will want to take away affirmative action.

The chief complaint here seems to be the other 3 criteria that significantly favour Whites over Asians. Is that process fair? That's what needs be probed, IMHO. It might be there is a bias here masquerading as objectivity, considering that Harvard is a school operating in a majority White country.

At the same time, it might be that students who score the highest, whatever their race, just tend to be lacking in the area of personality...some kinda of cost/benefit balance, and it just so happens that more of these geniuses come from Asian communities. Competitiveness and ambition often come with low agreeableness in the big 5 personality test, the only personality test with some scientific credibility. That's just speculation on my part but people at the highest end of any trait to be a bit different. If Asians have a bigger proportion of this top percentile, and the top percentile have low agreeableness due to great competitiveness, It may perhaps be why.

You might also say that Harvard is using these separate criteria to balance out demographics in a way that favours all groups. Maybe one criterion puts one group so low and the other criteria balance it all out. Then they have one for demographics to balance things further if after considering all the 5, there is still a demographic imbalance. Perhaps there are enough Asians among the staff and alumni so that leaving out these guys in the analysis cited changes how things look. Maybe Harvard already knows that it has this many number of Asians already coming in that way that it changes how many Asians it lets in through the other admission process.

A school has a right to value diversity as a core value and one of the things it promises its students, for example. An assumption that Harvard as a school should value SATs or one characteristic over another is not warranted IMO. I don't think the courts can dictate that to any school.

However, if they are specifically targeting Asian Americans in an unfair way (e.g. they are deliberately lowering their other scores) and if this can be reasonably inferred from the facts, then they need to correct that. There are many ways to see this.

Whoever wins or loses, though, I doubt Harvard will be faulted for affirmative action favouring disadvantaged groups per se. It's possible to be treating Asians unfairly without the problem being affirmative action in favour of Blacks and Latinos...mainly Blacks, of course. In fact, if I were Harvard, I'd have extra points or criteria for descendants of slavery and poverty or single-parent homes, separate from "demographics".

Edit:....Oh wait! It just occurred to me that all these may be what Harvard is looking at under "demographics"....I immediately assumed demographics is a stand-in for race but this assumption is unwarranted. It also includes women and LGBT for example...At least that's what I assume. Many people assume that Black people are the only ones who benefit from Affirmative action. In fact, I believe women have been the group that's most benefitted...White women to be specific. It may very well be that these agreeable people getting high personality scores are White women. Which is ok IMO.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2018, 04:52:15 PM »
The State University of Texas won the SCOTUS case on affirmative action recently - specifically the demographics Kadame cites. Harvard should win this one - and the alleged anti-Asian bias can be corrected without impeding affirmative action.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline vooke

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2018, 10:01:13 PM »
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2018, 10:48:13 AM »
Are American-Asian the majority or minority. You knows South Asia & Indians (foreign students) could be "biasing" the American Asian minorities.

In any case I think lots of "in-born" bias are so subconscious you cannot legislate against.

Offline veritas

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2018, 01:59:44 PM »
They took away marks because they're asian. That's racism. They won't be able to bury this one. Asia is a force to be reckoned with. Asia is definitely not a minority in the trade sector. I started my boycott today by omitting all things Havard from the newsletter. I'm in charge of the newsletter. Includes speakers, conferences etc etc fck off havard!

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2018, 02:51:36 AM »
This is an interesting take on the subject.  It's behind a paywall, but I will paste it here.  What a lot of people seem to be missing or ignoring is that the SAT score is just one of several metrics that a college can use to measure the student's potential.  I will pick a Turkana kid demonstrating the same(or even slightly less) levels of knowledge as an Asian-American kid from a highly educated parent family any day.
Quote
has recruited highly-educated immigrantsthe same levels of achievement), and, because race and income are so highly correlated, to face differential opportunities even within the same schoolsJanelle Wong is a professor of Asian-American Studies at the University of Maryland, College Park. David Silver graduated from Harvard Graduate School of Education and is a senior researcher for the Center for Evaluation and the Study of Educational Equity at RTI International.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2018/06/17/telling-wrong-story-about-racial-discrimination-education/g8Fsvasy3Aff0Xv4r3QGzL/story.html?event=event25
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2018, 06:19:07 AM »
This is an interesting take on the subject.  It's behind a paywall, but I will paste it here.  What a lot of people seem to be missing or ignoring is that the SAT score is just one of several metrics that a college can use to measure the student's potential.  I will pick a Turkana kid demonstrating the same(or even slightly less) levels of knowledge as an Asian-American kid from a highly educated parent family any day.
Quote
has recruited highly-educated immigrantsthe same levels of achievement), and, because race and income are so highly correlated, to face differential opportunities even within the same schoolsJanelle Wong is a professor of Asian-American Studies at the University of Maryland, College Park. David Silver graduated from Harvard Graduate School of Education and is a senior researcher for the Center for Evaluation and the Study of Educational Equity at RTI International.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2018/06/17/telling-wrong-story-about-racial-discrimination-education/g8Fsvasy3Aff0Xv4r3QGzL/story.html?event=event25

That's an excellent summary of what equality and affirmative action are about.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline vooke

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Re: Havard ignored their own Implicit Bias Test
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2018, 09:15:19 AM »
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.