Shitholes and Africans/Blacks

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

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Should the African care? 

I think he has bigger fish to fry.  The African's fate is not dependent on what white nationalists think of him.  It doesn't matter if these crackers love us, if we are busy shooting ourselves in the foot.  They will never fix our problems.

Instead of whining about a racist being a racist, Africa should focus on solving its problems.  I think we have to start by loving ourselves.  By that I don't mean just our individual selves, but our Negritude.  We should value fellow Negroes the way bazungus do themselves.  A white person in America will be more traumatized by a mzungu being injured in Ukraine, than a fellow American, who also happens to be black, stopping a bullet in gang viiolence or at the hands of police.

I believe everything else falls into place, once the African can get past not liking himself(in a big picture way).  There is natural resources, huge land mass, sheer scale, human resources.  Getting the right people to work on the right problems from anywhere in Africa.

The welcome by kamwana for any African to be able to work in Kenya is probably a step in the right direction and should be emulated continent wide.  Just abolish borders for Africans and goods within Africa.  I don't buy the argument that we need higher IQ.

That is important.  Not whether Trump or KKK types likes us - they will never.  There is potential to have the last laugh over Trump types.  But will the African seize the moment?

That is why this so called protest by South Africa totally misses the point.  The people we should be looking for respect from are not in the White House.  They are your fellow Negroes on the ground.

South Africa is planning to formally protest President Trump's reported remarks referring to Haiti, El Salvador and some African nations as "shithole countries."

South Africa's government on Monday is expected to issue a diplomatic protest to the U.S. Embassy in Pretoria, CNN reported.

"The Department will provide an opportunity to the Charges de Affaires to explain the statement that African countries, alongside Haiti and El Salvador, constitute 'shitholes' from where migrants into the United States are undesirable," the South African Department of International Relations said in a statement.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/369008-south-africa-to-issue-diplomatic-protest-to-us-after-trumps-s-hole

[RV Pundit]

Totally agree. Africa has the solutions just right here. No country has succeeded trying to trade or make friends thousands miles away. Africa has huge continent. All it need to do is open their borders - Rwanda is good example - and Kenya is following suit - allow for intra-africa trade. There are 52 countries - which have all that we will ever need - but right now each of Africa countries is trying to trade or make friends with countries as far as Japan or US or China...countries that takes a whole day to fly or 1-2 months for a ship to arrive.

It times for Africa to do what Uhuru did - allow free movement within the continent - that will slowly unite Africans - that will allow small scale traders to freely trade - SMES to do the same - large corp to do the same - and soon enough we would be there.

Africa has to start by opening their borders to fellow Africans and as you say loving themselves. 

The best response to Trump is to announce that any African is welcome in any African country - no visa - just some ID.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Totally agree. Africa has the solutions just right here. No country has succeeded trying to trade or make friends thousands miles away. Africa has huge continent. All it need to do is open their borders - Rwanda is good example - and Kenya is following suit - allow for intra-africa trade. There are 52 countries - which have all that we will ever need - but right now each of Africa countries is trying to trade or make friends with countries as far as Japan or US or China...countries that takes a whole day to fly or 1-2 months for a ship to arrive.

It times for Africa to do what Uhuru did - allow free movement within the continent - that will slowly unite Africans - that will allow small scale traders to freely trade - SMES to do the same - large corp to do the same - and soon enough we would be there.

Africa has to start by opening their borders to fellow Africans and as you say loving themselves. 

The best response to Trump is to announce that any African is welcome in any African country - no visa - just some ID.

The other thing I realized, when Trump tried to renegotiate a trade deal with Germany, Angela Merkel told him to take it to the EU, because Germany cannot do such bilateral deals by itself.  Africa has power, but it is split into small bits denying itself leverage.

[Nefertiti]

The intra-Africa trade, labor & citizenship mobility is often discussed but unrealized at the AU. SA and richer countries don't want migrants. Politics intervenes - for example the ANC would be overthrown by EFF if it allowed mass labor migration. Same for Nigeria with Liberian migrants. Kenya and Somalia? There have been incidences of xenophobia in all those places.

Trade is driven by production - the bigger an economy the more it has to trade. If you look at the Kenyan imports you will note they are in short competitive supply in Africa.

[Nefertiti]

I don't buy the argument that we need higher IQ.

It's OK to acknowledge inconvenient facts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality
Perhaps I'm mistaken and the African is not like the ostrich; in that case he must create his own narrative. Einstein said: Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid

South Africa is planning to formally protest President Trump's reported remarks referring to Haiti, El Salvador and some African nations as "shithole countries."

I could be wrong but El Salvador has a bigger non-black population - including pure whites (Americans) and the Mestizo (Spanish descendants). Trump is just foulmouthed - his beef is poor folks not blacks - a subtle difference without a distinction. He respects success not color.

[Kichwa]

Most of the African countries are shit-holes because of bad leaders like ouruto.  That is NOT debatable and Africans should accept that.  What Africans should not accept is that just because they came from shit-holes then that makes them shit-heads. However, when we start supporting thieves and murderers like Ouruto just because they are our tribesmates then they deserve to  be called  shit-heads from shit-holes.

[Kichwa]

Most of the African countries are shit-holes because of bad leaders like ouruto.  That is NOT debatable and Africans should accept that.  What Africans should not accept is that just because they came from shit-holes then that makes them shit-heads. However, when they start supporting thieves and murderers like Ouruto just because they are our tribesmates then they deserve to  be called  shit-heads from shit-holes.

[Georgesoros]

Most of the African countries are shit-holes because of bad leaders like ouruto.  That is NOT debatable and Africans should accept that.  What Africans should not accept is that just because they came from shit-holes then that makes them shit-heads. However, when we start supporting thieves and murderers like Ouruto just because they are our tribesmates then they deserve to  be called  shit-heads from shit-holes.

Poor leadership has led Africa down for a long time. Uganda is a Shithole too, Burundi, Somalia, S. Sudan - oh what a mess. If Trump had not used Shithole during policy making it could have been different.

[RV Pundit]

I disagree. Africa was always down. This idea that one variable or factor (leadership mainly political) is responsible for a complex issues is really the epitome of simplistic thinking.There are so many structural issues that make Africa poor. These cannot be easily dealt with even with Jesus as our leader. Of course leadership is important but so are the other 1,000 plus issues that keep us down...we have to slowly and sustainable deal with all of them.

For experiment - assume today you're made a the president of a country named Mandera - can you tell us how far that country will be in say 2100? A country that start off with 98% illiteracy, 98% poverty level, that is landlocked, in a desert, surrounded by hostile neighbors.

Poor leadership has led Africa down for a long time. Uganda is a Shithole too, Burundi, Somalia, S. Sudan - oh what a mess. If Trump had not used Shithole during policy making it could have been different.

[Nefertiti]

Yup. Leadership is just one factor. It's the law of averages - the quality of leadership reflects the average citizen - even Jesus would be weighed down by the average.

The ultimate measure of AVERAGE is intelligence.

I disagree. Africa was always down. This idea that one variable or factor (leadership mainly political) is responsible for a complex issues is really the epitome of simplistic thinking.There are so many structural issues that make Africa poor. These cannot be easily dealt with even with Jesus as our leader. Of course leadership is important but so are the other 1,000 plus issues that keep us down...we have to slowly and sustainable deal with all of them.

For experiment - assume today you're made a the president of a country named Mandera - can you tell us how far that country will be in say 2100? A country that start off with 98% illiteracy, 98% poverty level, that is landlocked, in a desert, surrounded by hostile neighbors.

[RV Pundit]

Intelligence as being the ability to make better choices? I think it does play a part but I disagree it ultimate in anything; somethings just become culture and even the dumb in the society will do "intelligent" stuff because it the only way they know of. For me all these factors or variables are equally important - and until you get the right mix (you need lot of luck/opportunity) - then you hit a stage of leapfrog - where you suddenly grow so fast!. Africa has been dealing with lot of these factors or variables - is maybe 1 or 2 generation from getting the right mix to be able to leapfrog and quickly catch up with the rest of the world.

Yup. Leadership is just one factor. It's the law of averages - the quality of leadership reflects the average citizen - even Jesus would be weighed down by the average.

The ultimate measure of AVERAGE is intelligence.

[Nefertiti]

Intelligence - ability to make smart choices, do smart stuff, etc. There is empirical evidence of racially variable intelligence and its impact on development. For instance blacks/hispanics in the US are economically behind caucasians. Looked at closely, affirmative action for minorities in US universities and companies has resulted in over-representation of Asians (Chinese, Koreans, Japs) who are smart and don't need favors. So "minorities" has been revised to exclude Asians.

Haiti despite its proximity to the US is a third world.

I agree intelligence is not an ultimate factor just one of many variables.

Intelligence as being the ability to make better choices? I think it does play a part but I disagree it ultimate in anything; somethings just become culture and even the dumb in the society will do "intelligent" stuff because it the only way they know of. For me all these factors or variables are equally important - and until you get the right mix (you need lot of luck/opportunity) - then you hit a stage of leapfrog - where you suddenly grow so fast!. Africa has been dealing with lot of these factors or variables - is maybe 1 or 2 generation from getting the right mix to be able to leapfrog and quickly catch up with the rest of the world.

[RV Pundit]

Even when the theory of "intelligence" is taken it at highest; we do know intelligence improve or degrade with nutrition of kids & other factors; therefore it's chicken-egg situation; however obviously our current intelligence model don't capture why there is no Asian musician or artist or actors in the USA.

We definitely agree this multi-faceted complicated if not complex problem where no single cause or solution can explain it.

Intelligence - ability to make smart choices, do smart stuff, etc. There is empirical evidence of racially variable intelligence and its impact on development. For instance blacks/hispanics in the US are economically behind caucasians. Looked at closely, affirmative action for minorities in US universities and companies has resulted in over-representation of Asians (Chinese, Koreans, Japs) who are smart and don't need favors. So "minorities" has been revised to exclude Asians.

Haiti despite its proximity to the US is a third world.

I agree intelligence is not an ultimate factor just one of many variables

[Georgesoros]

Intelligence - ability to make smart choices, do smart stuff, etc. There is empirical evidence of racially variable intelligence and its impact on development. For instance blacks/hispanics in the US are economically behind caucasians. Looked at closely, affirmative action for minorities in US universities and companies has resulted in over-representation of Asians (Chinese, Koreans, Japs) who are smart and don't need favors. So "minorities" has been revised to exclude Asians.

Haiti despite its proximity to the US is a third world.

I agree intelligence is not an ultimate factor just one of many variables.

Intelligence as being the ability to make better choices? I think it does play a part but I disagree it ultimate in anything; somethings just become culture and even the dumb in the society will do "intelligent" stuff because it the only way they know of. For me all these factors or variables are equally important - and until you get the right mix (you need lot of luck/opportunity) - then you hit a stage of leapfrog - where you suddenly grow so fast!. Africa has been dealing with lot of these factors or variables - is maybe 1 or 2 generation from getting the right mix to be able to leapfrog and quickly catch up with the rest of the world.

Robina. Having lived close to various neighborhoods in the USA, I think environmental factors play a big role in Blacks and Latinos getting behind. Group think is a terrible thing, especially when it focuses on behaviors that do not improve lives. In some black neighborhoods, you are not expected to be anything other that sitting around doing nothing. Its a completely different culture.

[Nefertiti]

Robina. Having lived close to various neighborhoods in the USA, I think environmental factors play a big role in Blacks and Latinos getting behind. Group think is a terrible thing, especially when it focuses on behaviors that do not improve lives. In some black neighborhoods, you are not expected to be anything other that sitting around doing nothing. Its a completely different culture.

Of course, despite years of civil rights and affirmative action Why can't they create a better culture? The Europeans and Japs after being reset at WW2 swiftly rose up again. The Jews too despite daunting disadvantages. Racism as an excuse has run out of currency.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Most of the African countries are shit-holes because of bad leaders like ouruto.  That is NOT debatable and Africans should accept that.  What Africans should not accept is that just because they came from shit-holes then that makes them shit-heads. However, when we start supporting thieves and murderers like Ouruto just because they are our tribesmates then they deserve to  be called  shit-heads from shit-holes.

I agree Ouruto are terrible leaders.  Yet, we have seen countries make leaps and bounds with questionable folks at the helm.  At some point, South Korea was under military rule, even as it made big economic strides. 

While leadership is important(the most important actually because they decide the direction), ultimately, it depends on whether that leadership correctly identifies what is holding the countries back.  In Africa, I think it's structural and organizational as a result of its history.

[Nefertiti]

Definitely development is very complex and can't be simplified. I really hope we are going to knick it in a general or two. I would suggest benevolent dictatorship is a good start but Kichwa would kill me.

Even when the theory of "intelligence" is taken it at highest; we do know intelligence improve or degrade with nutrition of kids & other factors; therefore it's chicken-egg situation; however obviously our current intelligence model don't capture why there is no Asian musician or artist or actors in the USA.

We definitely agree this multi-faceted complicated if not complex problem where no single cause or solution can explain it.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I don't buy the argument that we need higher IQ.

It's OK to acknowledge inconvenient facts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality
Perhaps I'm mistaken and the African is not like the ostrich; in that case he must create his own narrative. Einstein said: Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid

South Africa is planning to formally protest President Trump's reported remarks referring to Haiti, El Salvador and some African nations as "shithole countries."

I could be wrong but El Salvador has a bigger non-black population - including pure whites (Americans) and the Mestizo (Spanish descendants). Trump is just foulmouthed - his beef is poor folks not blacks - a subtle difference without a distinction. He respects success not color.

Richard Lynn is a revered authority in racist circles.  That is problematic.  It would be less problematic if he had evidence on his side.  At most it's circumstantial without establishing cause and effect.  I am not even sure if one can find a reliable study that established the IQ of people in Africa.  It seems to me that IQ rises the wealthier a society becomes.  That can explain the Flynn effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect.

The most I can see about IQ is it's a test of how well one is adjusted to fit and function in a western(modern) society.  If you live in one culture, you will always suck in a test with emphasis on attributes that are valued in a different one.  Africa has been exposed to the West, but Africans have never really embraced western culture.  Even African Americans don't exist in the same culture.

A typical mzungu's skill levels are very basic things.  They are mostly glorified clerks who exist in a favorable economic environment.  They can barely think outside the box.  If he does not have a set of well written instructions and protocol, you will get chaos.  You can replace him with a well written shell script.  That said, I admire how well they can follow a script.

[Kichwa]

Development is definitely complicated and that is why we need leaders who have thought about it and can coherently articulate and defend what it is that they are going to do.  However, we know that stealing elections, looting, dividing the country along tribal lines and impoverishing citizens is not a way towards development.  We are definitely heading in the wrong directions but because of stupid and silly tribalism we have our heads in the sand protecting losers, thieves and drunkards like Ouru and Ruto.

Definitely development is very complex and can't be simplified. I really hope we are going to knick it in a general or two. I would suggest benevolent dictatorship is a good start but Kichwa would kill me.

Even when the theory of "intelligence" is taken it at highest; we do know intelligence improve or degrade with nutrition of kids & other factors; therefore it's chicken-egg situation; however obviously our current intelligence model don't capture why there is no Asian musician or artist or actors in the USA.

We definitely agree this multi-faceted complicated if not complex problem where no single cause or solution can explain it.

[Nefertiti]

I agree Ouruto are terrible leaders.  Yet, we have seen countries make leaps and bounds with questionable folks at the helm.  At some point, South Korea was under military rule, even as it made big economic strides. 

While leadership is important(the most important actually because they decide the direction), ultimately, it depends on whether that leadership correctly identifies what is holding the countries back.  In Africa, I think it's structural and organizational as a result of its history.

Good thought.