H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity

[RV Pundit]

And you don't have the intelligence to know I wasn't talking to you. I cherry-picked one of Robina response - one Eurobond. Something you haven't mentioned. What is wrong you? Trying to look for a catfight?

You quoted me, genius.

[Dear Mami]

And you don't have the intelligence to know I wasn't talking to you. I cherry-picked one of Robina response - one Eurobond. Something you haven't mentioned. What is wrong you? Trying to look for a catfight?

You quoted me, genius.

I addressed the same Eurobond post, and then you quoted me, my reaction was precisely because your response seemed way over the top and unnecessarily provocative.  And by the way, the only person here who has repeatedly demonstrated she lives in an ivory tower is our dear Robina.

[Nefertiti]

Only an idiot think one would be so stupid to launder eurobond via US Fed Reserve of all places. Eurobond is legit. Angloleasing was backstreet kind of deal that is perfect money laundering opportunity for the thieves. How do you launder 2B dollars - from US debt market, Irish debt market, Fed Reserve bank and CBK of Kenya???????? Sometimes you guys need to use some intelligence - all the regulators and paper-trail?

Glad you agree Wanjiku is the undisputed Whiner-in-Chief I am one of those who bought into the Ndii narrative that Eurobond cash was misappropriated. I believe Eurobond was Jubilee kitty for 2017. If the blubbering Bishop rolls his sleeves for once - and brings names forward ideally with Uhuru on top - I would support Wanjiku's or NASA's activities to see the thieves off. I don't hold my breath.

   

Keep your morning bhang to yourself. Who is talking about Eurobond? I will point out impressive intellectual summersaults performed in any post as I see them, donge? Here we have one statement directly contradicting the one it follows, both from the same person. "I don't believe X was misappropriated but I believe it was misappropriated." Just wow.

Jubilee has some good performance scores - fighting graft is not one of them. Merging 15 parties sio mchezo. Cash changed hands.

[Dear Mami]

Jubilee has some good performance scores - fighting graft is not one of them.

So which is it, was there graft or not...how can you accommodate so many contradictions? Sometimes I think you are bored and deliberately trolling. Honestly. 

[Nefertiti]

Jubilee has some good performance scores - fighting graft is not one of them.

So which is it, was there graft or not...how can you accommodate so many contradictions? Sometimes I think you are bored and deliberately trolling. Honestly.

There was graft. I am very consistent on this.

[RV Pundit]

Yeap there has been lot of graft. The usual "10%" consultancy fee on every project. It started with SGR and I bet every project Jubilee has handled - someone has got their 10%. Which I really don't mind - I'll only mind if they kill it all like NYS. This kind of graft happens world over. They use different terminology but someone somewhere is getting the cream off the milk jar.

There was graft. I am very consistent on this.

[vooke]

[RV Pundit]

Yeap nobody is ready to deal with maize+sugar industry with simple measures that works.Liberalize. Let the market do it's magic. First is to allow duty free importation of food from anywhere in the world. After 3-4 yrs some industries or crops will collapse and maybe forever. But our farmers will figure out more profitable sectors like dairy, horticulture, beans and etc.

Maize is not helping anybody - not the RV farmers - not the millers - not the consumers; In our location; it's been nearly 30yrs since people planted it. It doesn't make any sense to plant it. Ugandans can plant it cheaply and supply us. We instead can plant yellow maize for cow feeds coz dairy farming is more profitable and earns families money & food every day.

The same is true with sugar cane - let it fall - let us import cheap Brazilian sugars. Turn those sugar-cane farms to something else - maybe soya? maybe even tobacco? just try something else.Bananas?

[hk]

The key is just simple liberalization and this will happen either by political will or forced by economics. If I were a western kenya farmer I'd uproot sugar and plant beans . There's ready market for beans in north eastern even before exporting to India. In eastleign there are  importers of canned beans who supply north eastern.

[MOON Ki]

The key is just simple liberalization and this will happen either by political will or forced by economics. If I were a western kenya farmer I'd uproot sugar and plant beans . There's ready market for beans in north eastern even before exporting to India. In eastleign there are  importers of canned beans who supply north eastern.

I'd say "should happen", rather than "will happen".    The constant begging for food while doing nothing serious about food security---consider the Galana joke---shows that the political will does not exist.   Are there any reasons to expect a change in that?    As for the economics, people---powerful people, some connected to the "political will" do well out of the shortages and "urgent" imports.   What economics will change that any time soon?

[hk]

The key is just simple liberalization and this will happen either by political will or forced by economics. If I were a western kenya farmer I'd uproot sugar and plant beans . There's ready market for beans in north eastern even before exporting to India. In eastleign there are  importers of canned beans who supply north eastern.

I'd say "should happen", rather than "will happen".    The constant begging for food while doing nothing serious about food security---consider the Galana joke---shows that the political will does not exist.   Are there any reasons to expect a change in that?    As for the economics, people---powerful people, some connected to the "political will" do well out of the shortages and "urgent" imports.   What economics will change that any time soon?

The government can't possibly continue subsidizing unga for long already I think treasury took a hit of about 30b, this isn't sustainable. Also kenya is running out of sugar waivers in COMESA before opening up the sector to competition.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Glad you agree Wanjiku is the undisputed Whiner-in-Chief I am one of those who bought into the Ndii narrative that Eurobond cash was misappropriated. I believe Eurobond was Jubilee kitty for 2017. If the blubbering Bishop rolls his sleeves for once - and brings names forward ideally with Uhuru on top - I would support Wanjiku's or NASA's activities to see the thieves off. I don't hold my breath.

   

While Ndii has harped once or twice about the Eurobond heist, it is not a Ndii idea.  The Auditor General cannot put his finger on what happened to this money.  It's not some narrative.  Futile attempts have been made to discuss it on the basis of actual facts, even on this forum.

Here is where Robina loses me.  She thinks it was used for the jubilated kitty for 2017.  And that wanjiku complaining about such a use amounts whining.  It's confusing if you try too hard to reconcile what she is saying.

[MOON Ki]

The government can't possibly continue subsidizing unga for long already I think treasury took a hit of about 30b, this isn't sustainable. Also kenya is running out of sugar waivers in COMESA before opening up the sector to competition.

My understanding is that the subsidies have always been intended to be short-term measures.  The question I'd ask is this: what is the government doing or planning to do to ensure that in, say, 2019 the country will not be in the same position as it is now?    The other question I would ask is this: if liberalization, including the allowing easy importation, would make a huge difference, then why on earth isn't the government doing it right now?

By the way, Sh. 30b seems  high for the subsidies that have been announced so far.    What
is the exact nature of the "hit"?   

Sugar does have some nutritional benefits, and people ought to have some in their diet; but I don't consider it as essential to the country's food security.   Sort out maize, rice, and wheat, and then worry about sugar.

[RV Pundit]

HK - Indeed just fully liberalizing the agricultural sector would do the trick. The moment you buy into Moonki argument that some food is more important aka food security then you go into all these schemes to produce or protect maize, rice and wheat for some "strategic" reasons. It totally balooney. There is enough cheap food in the world to feed everybody and their livestocks.

Let the market sort it out. Irish Potatos are second most consumed food in kenya - and nobody is out there protect it. Farmers are producing it because it makes business sense. There is no irish potato lobby out there crying fool about importation. That has prevented people in Nakuru or Nyandarua or Meru or such places from producing tonnes of potatos every week.

Why plant wheat when russians and canadians can sort us out cheaply? Why plant rice when Pakistanis can sell to us so cheaply? Why not concentrate on small holder farming where we can add value with lots of cheap labour we've have - I am talking something like plucking tea leaves which takes lots of human labour - hand picking quality coffee beans? Dairy farming that takes lot of energy and time?

[MOON Ki]

HK - Indeed just fully liberalizing the agricultural sector would do the trick. The moment you buy into Moonki argument that some food is more important aka food security then you go into all these schemes to produce or protect maize, rice and wheat for some "strategic" reasons. It totally balooney.

Feel free to explain to me why sugar is more important to Kenya's food security than maize, rice, and wheat.  When Kenya begs for food, does it expect (and does anyone send) sugar?    The current government subsidies ... how much is for sugar?

There is enough cheap food in the world to feed everybody and their livestocks.

That might be so, but I don't see those who have it simply giving it away.    So, Kenyans (and others who pay no attention to their food security) are always starving and begging for it.  And there are always a large number of Kenyan kids who suffer permanent developmental damage because of nutritional reasons.   With all the food in the world.

Why plant wheat when russians and canadians can sort us out cheaply? Why plant rice when Pakistanis can sell to us so cheaply?

According to hk, the government cannot afford to continue spending any more money subsidizing unga.   Who is "sorting out" Kenya cheaply?

[RV Pundit]

Don't conflate lack of money or poverty with lack of food. We have regulated the so called food security crops - maize, wheat, rice and sugar - and now we are paying 3-4 times the global prices for them - all because they are strategic - sijui strategic grain reserves . We buy maize to store in NCPBB strategic stores at nearly twice the global market price.

Many kenyans are poor. There is nothing like food security. You either have money to buy food or don't. The solution is to open up maize or wheat or rice for global competition. That will probably half the number of people who cannot afford to buy those "strategic" food crops because the global prices are so damn cheap.

Obviously this narrative is so loved by the big cats - Arabs in Mombasa - and politicians in Nairobi who issue to permits to import.

HK - Indeed just fully liberalizing the agricultural sector would do the trick. The moment you buy into Moonki argument that some food is more important aka food security then you go into all these schemes to produce or protect maize, rice and wheat for some "strategic" reasons. It totally balooney.

Feel free to explain to me why sugar is more important to Kenya's food security than maize, rice, and wheat.

There is enough cheap food in the world to feed everybody and their livestocks.

That might be so, but I don't see those who have it simply giving it away.    So, Kenyans (and others who pay no attention to their food security) are always starving and begging for it.  And there are always a large number of Kenyan kids who suffer permanent developmental damage because of nutritional reasons.   With all the food in the world.

[RV Pundit]

Maize shortage is artificial and damn expensive because of market restriction and politics.If kenyans like ugandans consumed so called non strategic food..potatos,bananas or cassavas...the cartels will die off.

[MOON Ki]

Don't conflate lack of money or poverty with lack of food. We have regulated the so called food security crops - maize, wheat, rice and sugar - and now we are paying 3-4 times the global prices for them - all because they are strategic - sijui strategic grain reserves . We buy maize to store in NCPBB strategic stores at nearly twice the global market price.

Nothing to do with poverty, my friend.  Just take a look at how much the country produces and how much it consumes in maize, rice, and wheat in any given year.

I am lost on the rest.  Not too long ago, Uhuru sent out an urgent plea for food aid and made a big deal of receiving some from the UAE.   And all this will maize is stored by some body?    If so, what exactly is strategic about the "strategic reserves"?

There is nothing like food security. You either have money to buy food or don't.

The president that you admire so much recently has had much to say about food security.   Just in September, he had this to say:

Food security remains an important part of our development agenda

http://www.president.go.ke/2017/09/14/speech-by-his-excellency-hon-uhuru-kenyatta-c-g-h-president-and-commander-in-chief-of-the-defence-forces-of-the-republic-of-kenya-during-the-official-opening-of-the-2017-central-kenya-regional-sh/

And his speech on Tuesday included this:

We must completely re-engineer our agricultural sector in order to be food secure.

http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Uhuru-Kenyatta-inauguration-speech-/1056-4206194-t1nh18/index.html

That is the man you should tell that "There is nothing like food security".   And while at it, tell him that there is no need to "re-engineer our agricultural sector", because Russians and Pakistanis and ... will sort us out cheaply.   

[RV Pundit]

We export tonnes of food every day - fruits, vegetables, tea, nuts, coffee etc - we are global leaders in exporting food. There is enough wheat, maize or rice in high seas to feed kenyans for 100 yrs. The artificial shortage is because we have blocked our borders and prevented maize or wheat or rice from coming in until somebody declare our expensively held strategic reserves to be short. For 2 decades now - we have had North Rift Maize farmer as our Min of Agric - the thinking will remain the same.

And btw the fact that I support uhuru or ruto do not mean I agree 100% with what they say. I am saying our food security so called sector is ripe for reforms.

We need reforms in our "food" security sectors. Those are the reforms some of us including robina and hk here are calling for. Not Raila makelele. The shortage is artificial. The solution is to allow the market to sort it out. Nobody is out there controlling Irish Potatos and it is important food crop for kenyans. The same is even true for eggs - which are now dominated by ugandans?

Simple solutions. Fully liberalize agriculture. Privatize NCPB. Let the chips fall wherever.

Don't conflate lack of money or poverty with lack of food. We have regulated the so called food security crops - maize, wheat, rice and sugar - and now we are paying 3-4 times the global prices for them - all because they are strategic - sijui strategic grain reserves . We buy maize to store in NCPBB strategic stores at nearly twice the global market price.

Nothing to do with poverty, my friend.  Just take a look at how much the country produces and how much it consumes in maize, rice, and wheat in any given year.

I am lost on the rest.  Not too long ago, Uhuru sent out an urgent plea for food aid and made a big deal of receiving some from the UAE.   And all this will maize is stored by some body?    If so, what exactly is strategic about the "strategic reserves"?

There is nothing like food security. You either have money to buy food or don't.

The president that you admire so much recently has had to say about food security.   Just in September, he had this to say:

Food security remains an important part of our development agenda

http://www.president.go.ke/2017/09/14/speech-by-his-excellency-hon-uhuru-kenyatta-c-g-h-president-and-commander-in-chief-of-the-defence-forces-of-the-republic-of-kenya-during-the-official-opening-of-the-2017-central-kenya-regional-sh/

And his speech on Tuesday included this:

We must completely re-engineer our agricultural sector in order to be food secure.

http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Uhuru-Kenyatta-inauguration-speech-/1056-4206194-t1nh18/index.html

That is the man you should tell that "There is nothing like food security".   And while at it, tell him that there is no need to "re-engineer our agricultural sector", because Russians and Pakistanis and ... will sort us out cheaply.   

[MOON Ki]

We export tonnes of food every day - fruits, vegetables, tea, nuts, coffee etc

I haven't seen too many people eating tea and coffee.

We are global leaders in exporting food.

On which globe is that?    Maybe you can point out where Kenya is on a list like this one:   http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-american-food-giant-the-largest-exporter-of-food-in-the-world.html

There is enough wheat, maize or rice in high seas to feed kenyans for 100 yrs.

And yet Kenyans desperately beg for food about every 2 years.   What's up on the "high seas"?  Are the ships getting lost and not delivering to Kenya?

Now, let us assume---just assume---that you are indeed right on the problems and solutions.  Let us start here:

The artificial shortage is because we have blocked our borders and prevented maize or wheat or rice from coming in until somebody declare our expensively held strategic reserves to be short. For 2 decades now - we have had North Rift Maize farmer as our Min of Agric - the thinking will remain the same.

Who has "blocked" the borders?  Bandits, Martians, or the government?  Regardless of the answer to that, whose task is it to "open" them?    Who gets to "our expensively held strategic reserves... short"?  Martians?

We have government that is going into a second term, but still  with the same two-decade-old thinking?   The liberalization and reforms and what-not ... whose job is that?    What has the present government done about them?   What is it about to do about them?  What, if anything, has the present government done in the last five years to improve things?   The Galana Eating Joke?

Even by your own "explanation", it looks like Kenyans keep starving and begging for food---and most likely will keep starving and begging for food---because they have a clueless government.

And btw the fact that I support uhuru or ruto do not mean I agree 100% with what they say.

It certainly doesn't.   But Uhuru and Ruto are the ones who will largely determine what happens in the next years.   That is why I directed you to Uhuru's views.  If you are right and he is wrong, then it's still going to be more starving and begging.