Author Topic: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity  (Read 15418 times)

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2017, 07:59:05 PM »
Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we?

Because he is  the president and the head the government?   

Because the political power of his position gives him a lot more say in what he complained about, i.e.  the use of "politics for selfish gains at the expense of the country's  prosperity"?

Because he actually has the powers to do what he says, as in "I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public [we] the quality of service they deserve from their government"?     

Should I go on and add to the list, or does that give some idea?


Kamwana's job is pomp and pageantry and ruling.  Why would anyone expect him to fix shit? :-\

I expect so much better than he has done. I'm not his fan. What have you done as a private citizen? That's a very pertinent question few will answer with pride. Our private sector is dead as a dodo because of an absence of talent and enterprise. Much more than political failures.

What do you expect Uhuru to do? 
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2017, 08:10:28 PM »
MOON Ki am sure there is a longer treatise and literature on the role of the private sector in the rise of South Korea and the Tigers. That is a story on the government.


If you have in mind any particular "treatise and literature on the role of the private sector in the rise of South Korea", I'd be happy to discuss it in relation to the role of government in South Korea's economic growth, private sector, etc.

The South Korean private sector is dominated by the chaebols ("conglomerates" as a loose translation); the Samsung chaebol alone accounts for something like 20% of GDP.   See if you can separate the current position of the chaebols from the government interventions such as those I have cited.     The report---which, by the way the author claims just "reviews the developments of science and technology in Korea, evaluates their impacts on industrial development"---has this to say:

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I would, for example, be interested in your thoughts on Samsung's entry into electronics and any role that the government had to play in its subsequent rise.

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Kenya's private sector is a joke. The private citizens - Wanjiku - have performed much worse than the state. Yet too many blunderers scapegoat Uhuru and Moi for their own absolute failure. I would be hard pressed to give the government 30% of the responsibility. If you are a D scoring tarmacker - the ugly duckling foundress of nothing - sorry Kibaki did not steal your fortune.

Interesting.  Earlier you wrote that:

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To inculcate innovation one area is our education. The talk of half-baked or misskilled graduates is real. We have had overhauls and reviews in basic education but not college.

Seems true enough.    This was a big point in the World Bank's "shared prosperity" report from last year; the WB emphasized the need to improve the quality of education.   Now, who should lead on that?   Wanjiku or GoK?   How do you propose that Wanjiku "review and overhaul" education at the tertiary level?  Extrapolate from her "overhauls and reviews in basic education"?

Forget D-.  How does an A+/B.Sc.(1st Class) in Low-Quality Crap, from one of our "leading" public universities, get to succeed?

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Offline Dear Mami

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2017, 08:19:02 PM »
There is a widespread bias called "the just world fallacy" embedded in human minds and invisible to most. People might want to look it up. Will help contextualize some puzzling views here and elsewhere.

The long short of it is this, though: This world is a fair system where bad things and good things only happen to the deserving accordingly. Basically, if you are struggling and losing in the game of life (this preceding line is a direct quote from a post talking about this very topic) then it must in some way be your own fault. If you are winning, it must also be to your own credit.

This can come across as madharau for underpriviledged and struggling persons, unlucky persons etc and/or hero-worship on the other end.

Its very illogical but it seems to be something the human brain devised to help people shield themselves from an overbearing awareness of the suffering of others.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2017, 09:15:31 PM »
Folks get their own twisted ideas about innovation based totally on anecdotal evidence and declare kenyans are not innovative? Like really? How did M-pesa thrive? Kenya for it's economy size and stage of development is very innovative. Just look at data out there. Empirical data that compare economies of our scale and size.

For example - World Economic Forum - regularly ranks kenya ahead of South Africa and Nigeria in innovation.

Here is the latest from WEF's  The Global Competitiveness Report for 2017-2018

On innovation, Kenya ranks 37th globally, with a score of 3.8, followed closely by South Africa with a similar score but ranked 39th and Nigeria falling behind with a score of 2.8 and ranked 119th globally.Kenya ranks 41 in technological adoption with a score of 5.0, South Africa ranks 45 with a 4.9 score and Nigeria ranks 87 with a 4.3 score.
http://www.techweez.com/2017/10/18/gcr-2017-kenya-innovation/

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2017, 09:42:28 PM »
Small consolation for the legions of unemployed and underemployed youth who are entirely to blame for their own lack of education (or the crappy one they got), lack of jobs, connections, capital, and so much more stuff that everyone here had access to in some way at a certain point in life. If only they were as hardworking as our privileged nipateans, they would be posting here about such instead of out there trying to resolve the dilemma between crime and mjengo.

People need to know that even though you may have worked hard, you also had a lot of helps along the way, many of them invisible. Assuming that those on the bottom end are there just cause they deserve it is tea party insanity.


Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2017, 10:09:02 PM »
Small consolation for the legions of unemployed and underemployed youth who are entirely to blame for their own lack of education (or the crappy one they got), lack of jobs, connections, capital, and so much more stuff that everyone here had access to in some way at a certain point in life. If only they were as hardworking as our privileged nipateans, they would be posting here about such instead of out there trying to resolve the dilemma between crime and mjengo.

People need to know that even though you may have worked hard, you also had a lot of helps along the way, many of them invisible. Assuming that those on the bottom end are there just cause they deserve it is tea party insanity.



Even if suppose one got ahead on their own ingenuity.  That is great.  But it cannot be the basis for a good general solution.  A good solution pulls up the average person.  An environment that only rewards geniuses is not going to get the place very far.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2017, 10:35:15 PM »
Small consolation for the legions of unemployed and underemployed youth who are entirely to blame for their own lack of education (or the crappy one they got), lack of jobs, connections, capital, and so much more stuff that everyone here had access to in some way at a certain point in life. If only they were as hardworking as our privileged nipateans, they would be posting here about such instead of out there trying to resolve the dilemma between crime and mjengo.

People need to know that even though you may have worked hard, you also had a lot of helps along the way, many of them invisible. Assuming that those on the bottom end are there just cause they deserve it is tea party insanity.



Even if suppose one got ahead on their own ingenuity.  That is great.  But it cannot be the basis for a good general solution.  A good solution pulls up the average person.  An environment that only rewards geniuses is not going to get the place very far.
Absolutely. A good solution takes care of the D minus student, not just the Alliance graduates. Even being very good at school is a privilege since no one merits the kinds of talents they are born with. Dumb luck ecplains a lot of good fortune many enjoy. We should aim for a humane society that looks out for people because they are people. Leave tea partysm to nutty Americans.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2017, 10:36:29 PM »
Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we?

Because he is  the president and the head the government?   

Because the political power of his position gives him a lot more say in what he complained about, i.e.  the use of "politics for selfish gains at the expense of the country's  prosperity"?

Because he actually has the powers to do what he says, as in "I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public [we] the quality of service they deserve from their government"?     

Should I go on and add to the list, or does that give some idea?


Kamwana's job is pomp and pageantry and ruling.  Why would anyone expect him to fix shit? :-\

I expect so much better than he has done. I'm not his fan. What have you done as a private citizen? That's a very pertinent question few will answer with pride. Our private sector is dead as a dodo because of an absence of talent and enterprise. Much more than political failures.

What do you expect Uhuru to do?

Stamp out slaggards Magufuli-style for one. At KPLC, KAA and various state agencies.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2017, 10:42:05 PM »
Folks get their own twisted ideas about innovation based totally ancedotal evidence and declare kenyans are not innovative? Like really?

Talk to your side-kick, Robina.   She wrote this:

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Kenya has no innovation culture. How many patents are filed every year? Very few going by KIPI records. How much do companies spend on R&D? Very little indeed. Any patent laws?

Maybe you can giver her direct answers to her questions. Tell her about the patents and R & D spending and whatever.   (I too would be interested in the number of patents issued by folks in Kenya.   Please help with the innovative info.)

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How did M-pesa thrive?

One good idea from a mzungu.   Can't dine on that alone forever.   Any other examples?   What exactly are the innovations?

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Kenya for it's economy size and stage of development is very innovative. Just look at data out there. Emperical data that compare economies of our scale and size.

If you specify what you mean by "size" and "stage of development", then we can have a fruitful discussion.   For example, should we compare with South Korea in 1960 or 1970 or whatever?   Or some other countries of your choosing.   

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For example - World Economic Forum - regularly ranks kenya ahead of South Africa and Nigeria in innovation.

So?   Doing well among a questionable lot.   Big deal.

Beyond that, I would encourage you to look around a bit more and get what you call "the big picture".   

Now, please read this carefully:

First, I encourage you to read a bit more widely and to work on a better understanding of whatever is in front of you.   Aim for a broader and deeper understanding of what is being discussed; don't immediately start jerking off on the basis of one report.

I thought it would be obvious, especially given my examples, that I was commenting on ... R & D and especially with respect to innovations that lead to the sort of industrialization etc that produces significant improvements in economic and social well-being.  Please read that again and make sure you get it.

The report you refer to does not give a great deal of detail on country.    For Kenya, I would suggest last year's "shared prosperity" report from the World Bank. (I have the .pdf but will later find and post a link.)  Pay careful attention to the points that Robina and hk (?) have also made.

Like most of its reports, this one from the World Bank tries to "focus on the positive", but pay careful attention to the rest. It says that Kenya is innovative.   But in what exactly?

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The results from a 2014 innovation survey (World Bank Enterprise Survey  2014) suggest that the likelihood of Kenyan  firms to innovate is high compared with firms in  several other countries (Figure ES.11), although  the subjective nature of the results makes cross-country comparisons challenging (Spotlight 4 at the end of chapter 4).

Nevertheless, although most firms say they have introduced some type of product or process innovation, only a few have actually come up with things that are new to the  domestic market. The fact that these innovations  have not been accompanied by productivity  gains in most cases confirms the point that  Kenya still has a long way to go. And when actual  investment in innovation is compared across  countries, the magnitude of innovation of Kenyan  firms becomes less impressive. The share of firms  spending on research and development (R&D) in  Kenya is 40 percent lower than in Ghana or the  Arab Republic of Egypt, and less than 50 percent that in South Africa. And a relatively lower share of Kenyan firms acquire machinery, equipment,  and software, and the same argument holds for  spending on training.

That's the sort of stuff on which we can have a reasonable discussion beyond basic rankings.  I also do a lot of work that is related to IP, especially in Asia, so I'm doubly keen to hear more of these great Kenyan innovations you have in mind.

 So, if you wish to proceed, a starting point would be to contradict the report by stating and giving examples of how:

(a) Kenyan innovation has actually produced "actually come up with things that are new to the  domestic market".

(b) how whatever innovations there are contradict the claim that  "these innovations  have not been accompanied by productivity gains".

With respect to the type of innovation I was discussing, Korea has grown rich from IP, all sorts of new stuff that the rest of the world is willing to pay big bucks for, etc.  What are Kenya's innovations that anyone outside Kenya (or within Kenya but with a choice) is willing to pay real money for? No need for a lengthy back-and-forth.  And, please, not M-Pesa again!

Innovation is not an end to itself.   That's a long discussion, but I will first wait for your responses to (a) and (b).   We'll then move to, say, comparing Kenya and Korea---on both the type of innovation I was focusing on and whatever type of innovation you have in mind.   But let's keep it small to start with  and work on (a) and (b).   

OK, let's go.
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2017, 10:44:36 PM »
I'm sure once we're done moralizing we'll get right back onto the subject. Sorry Wanjiku does not get a pass. Those sufferers or slum dwellers are there principally because of that very dumb misfortune of birth in a poor third world country. Perhaps too with the unlucky gene and no tall relative. Uhuru and the government are a distant second or third as the cause of misery.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2017, 10:48:07 PM »
I'm sure once we're done moralizing we'll get right back onto the subject. Sorry Wanjiku does not get a pass. Those sufferers or slum dwellers are there principally because of that very dumb misfortune of birth in a poor third world country. Perhaps too with the unlucky gene and no tall relative. Uhuru and the government are a distant second or third as the cause of misery.
So is Wanjiku to blame for that sheer dumb misfortune as you stated or is she not?

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2017, 11:06:38 PM »
Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we?

Because he is  the president and the head the government?   

Because the political power of his position gives him a lot more say in what he complained about, i.e.  the use of "politics for selfish gains at the expense of the country's  prosperity"?

Because he actually has the powers to do what he says, as in "I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public [we] the quality of service they deserve from their government"?     

Should I go on and add to the list, or does that give some idea?


Kamwana's job is pomp and pageantry and ruling.  Why would anyone expect him to fix shit? :-\

I expect so much better than he has done. I'm not his fan. What have you done as a private citizen? That's a very pertinent question few will answer with pride. Our private sector is dead as a dodo because of an absence of talent and enterprise. Much more than political failures.

What do you expect Uhuru to do?

Stamp out slaggards Magufuli-style for one. At KPLC, KAA and various state agencies.

Why hasn't he done this?  Is it possible his hands are tied?  And why should it matter what goes on in those agencies if there is innovation?
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2017, 11:07:54 PM »
Absolutely. A good solution takes care of the D minus student, not just the Alliance graduates. Even being very good at school is a privilege since no one merits the kinds of talents they are born with. Dumb luck ecplains a lot of good fortune many enjoy. We should aim for a humane society that looks out for people because they are people. Leave tea partysm to nutty Americans.

Yep.   I was just reflecting on such things the other day.   I always worked very hard at my studies and was never a D- student or even close.   But luck and supportive environments have been very helpful.   I don't know how I would survive in today's Kenya if I were told that "look at this index; ease of business is improving; so get out there!".   

A little story: A couple of weeks ago, a nephew contacted me asking for some financial help in the new-and-improved "easy business environment" in Kenya.   Hardworking chap, great ideas, A grade.  But no capital or collateral for a loan.  Couldn't get sh*t in Kenya.   I have some friends in South Korea, and their government has an organization that focuses on "small man, no money, no collateral .... but great ideas".  So things are moving forward.   The financial split at the end?   Hmm.   
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
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Offline Nefertiti

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2017, 11:13:18 PM »
MOON Ki am sure there is a longer treatise and literature on the role of the private sector in the rise of South Korea and the Tigers. That is a story on the government.


If you have in mind any particular "treatise and literature on the role of the private sector in the rise of South Korea", I'd be happy to discuss it in relation to the role of government in South Korea's economic growth, private sector, etc.

The South Korean private sector is dominated by the chaebols ("conglomerates" as a loose translation); the Samsung chaebol alone accounts for something like 20% of GDP.   See if you can separate the current position of the chaebols from the government interventions such as those I have cited.     The report---which, by the way the author claims just "reviews the developments of science and technology in Korea, evaluates their impacts on industrial development"---has this to say:

Quote

I would, for example, be interested in your thoughts on Samsung's entry into electronics and any role that the government had to play in its subsequent rise.

If you pick on the South Korean box and want similarities: Safaricom was set up by the government. KCB too. These are the biggest companies in the East & Central Africa region. They had much more state input than Samsung. Safaricom is 20% of the NSE and a significant contributor to the economy. South Korea has a plethora of private enterprises besides Samsung that have ballooned the economy. Founded and run by the citizens of South Korea. Not so in Kenya.

I contend that the Kenya private citizenry - the mzungu-led M-Kopa, SunCulture, etc notwithstanding - have been less active and robust than GOK in contributing to the economy. For these shortcomings Uhuru, the constitution, "the system", etc are their favorite scapegoats. I believe in the law of averages. Nothing short of Wanjiku's severe enterprise will uplift Kenya into South Korea even if the Pope ran the country.


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Kenya's private sector is a joke. The private citizens - Wanjiku - have performed much worse than the state. Yet too many blunderers scapegoat Uhuru and Moi for their own absolute failure. I would be hard pressed to give the government 30% of the responsibility. If you are a D scoring tarmacker - the ugly duckling foundress of nothing - sorry Kibaki did not steal your fortune.

Interesting.  Earlier you wrote that:

Quote
To inculcate innovation one area is our education. The talk of half-baked or misskilled graduates is real. We have had overhauls and reviews in basic education but not college.

Seems true enough.    This was a big point in the World Bank's "shared prosperity" report from last year; the WB emphasized the need to improve the quality of education.   Now, who should lead on that?   Wanjiku or GoK?   How do you propose that Wanjiku "review and overhaul" education at the tertiary level?  Extrapolate from her "overhauls and reviews in basic education"?

Forget D-.  How does an A+/B.Sc.(1st Class) in Low-Quality Crap, from one of our "leading" public universities, get to succeed?

The private sector is better placed than the state to solve the quality of education problem. The state can pull up its socks to a better level like we have in the developed world but will still need the competitive private sector to keep up with the industry. There is an argument that the private sector knows best what it requires. The university and corporate training ultimately merge. In the US where education is supposed to be top-notch you have the Udacities and U2s taking over. This is because they are nimbler, meaner, privately funded and thus very innovative.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2017, 11:19:52 PM »
I'm sure once we're done moralizing we'll get right back onto the subject. Sorry Wanjiku does not get a pass. Those sufferers or slum dwellers are there principally because of that very dumb misfortune of birth in a poor third world country. Perhaps too with the unlucky gene and no tall relative. Uhuru and the government are a distant second or third as the cause of misery.

I think Wanjiku can make better choices with her vote, and I have expressed my views in that point. People may disagree on that.  But Wanjiku's electoral choices have nothing to do with the government obligations.

Once a government is in place, it has certain obligations and there are certain expectations of it.   Whether the government is the 1st or 2ns or whatever cause of their misery has nothing to do with the fact that the key point of the government is in fact to help them get past their misery ... basic decent education, healthcare, and whatever.
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
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Offline Nefertiti

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2017, 11:23:28 PM »
Great but not enough. We need to aim at top 10 on all indices. We need a hundred Safaricoms to make it. I believe in leapfrogs more than organic growth.

Folks get their own twisted ideas about innovation based totally on anecdotal evidence and declare kenyans are not innovative? Like really? How did M-pesa thrive? Kenya for it's economy size and stage of development is very innovative. Just look at data out there. Empirical data that compare economies of our scale and size.

For example - World Economic Forum - regularly ranks kenya ahead of South Africa and Nigeria in innovation.

Here is the latest from WEF's  The Global Competitiveness Report for 2017-2018

On innovation, Kenya ranks 37th globally, with a score of 3.8, followed closely by South Africa with a similar score but ranked 39th and Nigeria falling behind with a score of 2.8 and ranked 119th globally.Kenya ranks 41 in technological adoption with a score of 5.0, South Africa ranks 45 with a 4.9 score and Nigeria ranks 87 with a 4.3 score.
http://www.techweez.com/2017/10/18/gcr-2017-kenya-innovation/
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2017, 11:37:30 PM »
Safaricom was set up by the government. KCB too. These are the biggest companies in the East & Central Africa region. They had much more state input than Samsung. Safaricom is 20% of the NSE and a significant contributor to the economy.

Government support and mzungu's M-Pesa.  Interesting.   

South Korea has a plethora of private enterprises besides Samsung that have ballooned the economy. Founded and run by the citizens of South Korea. Not so in Kenya.

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For these shortcomings Uhuru, the constitution, "the system", etc are their favorite scapegoats.

No need to get into vague generalities.   I noted the Korean government's role in that country's industry; I also noted what the Kenyan government is doing w.r.t. to the "Vision 2030" industrialization stuff.   It's all up there for anyone who wants to make a comparison.

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Nothing short of Wanjiku's severe enterprise will uplift Kenya into South Korea even if the Pope ran the country.

Interesting.  And you could well be right.   But before we get into that, I have tried to highlight the differences between how the South Korean government has gone about certain things and how the Kenyan government is going about things.   Perhaps you can tell me the Kenyan government is doing (or has been doing) that comes even remotely close.   

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In the US where education is supposed to be top-notch you have the Udacities and U2s taking over. This is because they are nimbler, meaner, privately funded and thus very innovative.

That is really, really funny!   
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Offline Nefertiti

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2017, 11:39:57 PM »
Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we?

Because he is  the president and the head the government?   

Because the political power of his position gives him a lot more say in what he complained about, i.e.  the use of "politics for selfish gains at the expense of the country's  prosperity"?

Because he actually has the powers to do what he says, as in "I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public [we] the quality of service they deserve from their government"?     

Should I go on and add to the list, or does that give some idea?


Kamwana's job is pomp and pageantry and ruling.  Why would anyone expect him to fix shit? :-\

I expect so much better than he has done. I'm not his fan. What have you done as a private citizen? That's a very pertinent question few will answer with pride. Our private sector is dead as a dodo because of an absence of talent and enterprise. Much more than political failures.

What do you expect Uhuru to do?

Stamp out slaggards Magufuli-style for one. At KPLC, KAA and various state agencies.

Why hasn't he done this?  Is it possible his hands are tied?  And why should it matter what goes on in those agencies if there is innovation?

I don't know what he is waiting for? He swears he will do it immediately in a matter of days.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2017, 11:46:24 PM »
Safaricom was set up by the government. KCB too. These are the biggest companies in the East & Central Africa region. They had much more state input than Samsung. Safaricom is 20% of the NSE and a significant contributor to the economy.

Government support and mzungu's M-Pesa.  Interesting.   

South Korea has a plethora of private enterprises besides Samsung that have ballooned the economy. Founded and run by the citizens of South Korea. Not so in Kenya.

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For these shortcomings Uhuru, the constitution, "the system", etc are their favorite scapegoats.

No need to get into vague generalities.   I noted the Korean government's role in that country's industry; I also noted what the Kenyan government is doing w.r.t. to the "Vision 2030" industrialization stuff.   It's all up there for anyone who wants to make a comparison.

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Nothing short of Wanjiku's severe enterprise will uplift Kenya into South Korea even if the Pope ran the country.

Interesting.  And you could well be right.   But before we get into that, I have tried to highlight the differences between how the South Korean government has gone about certain things and how the Kenyan government is going about things.   Perhaps you can tell me the Kenyan government is doing (or has been doing) that comes even remotely close.   

I don't disagree the government needs to improve. My only contention is that it has done much better than Wanjiku who excels in whining with impunity. For that less-than-perfect Vison 2030 (or 3020[sic]) - Wanjiku has not attempted to meet the government halfway.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: H. E. Uhuru Kenyatta, PORK: Sobriety & Hilarity
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2017, 11:56:09 PM »
My contention on the Wanjiku-vs-Uhuru share of blame in the poverty monkey is why, dear MOON Ki, am suspicious and contemptuous of calls for "electoral justice", new parliamentary system, secession, etc. The ones you find amusing. All are aimed at Uhuru/government as a panacea for Wanjiku's misery. That's a big fallacy. It's the law of averages. It is Wanjiku who deserves the painful jab she's demanding for everyone but herself.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels