The People's Assembly Loading....

[vooke]

Fair enough, Moonki, for some of us, that time is now.  Some people in Kenya have had enough and cannot afford to wait for those who are still comfortable to feel their pain. The people who are causing the suffering are not stupid and will use tribalism to make sure that Kenyans will not feel as if they have had enough all at the same time. That is the whole idea behind kikuyu/Kalenjin alliance, stealing of votes and the tyranny of numbers.  Even Bashar Al-Asaad still has a segment of Syrians who support him and believe in him.

[Dear Mami]

Another hobby I see here is whining why nobody sees your POV and labeling them sympathizers of whatever you are berating

Sounds like the same hobby you pretended to discover earlier, want to check the def of "another" in a dictionary? Here's another one for ya: Putting one's biases out there and whining that others notice the holes in them and dare to mention them.

[vooke]

Another hobby I see here is whining why nobody sees your POV and labeling them sympathizers of whatever you are berating

Sounds like the same hobby you pretended to discover earlier, want to check the def of "another" in a dictionary? Here's another one for ya: Putting one's biases out there and whining that others notice the holes in them and dare to mention them.

Wanajijua

[RV Pundit]

This forum provide us anonymity so we can be a little honest and avoid shadow boxing.Kadame ideas are not any different from Nyaboke ideas in kisii neither are kichwa or moonki or Terminator or Bryan or etc...mostly ethnically inspired in matter politics and so predictable.The really enjoyable exchange are those outside our ethnic based politics...otherwise some little honesty would reduce the long winding circular debates.

[Dear Mami]

Another hobby I see here is whining why nobody sees your POV and labeling them sympathizers of whatever you are berating

Sounds like the same hobby you pretended to discover earlier, want to check the def of "another" in a dictionary? Here's another one for ya: Putting one's biases out there and whining that others notice the holes in them and dare to mention them.

Wanajijua

Nyani haoni kundule.

[Nefertiti]

Yup. It's good to add that people will rarely agree on broad subjects like politics or democracy. Even in the development thread there is a clear leapfrog vs organic divide. Although you can say it's also tainted by capitalist vs socialist politics. Difference is the essence of debate.

This forum provide us anonymity so we can be a little honest and avoid shadow boxing.Kadame ideas are not any different from Nyaboke ideas in kisii neither are kichwa or moonki or Terminator or Bryan or etc...mostly ethnically inspired in matter politics and so predictable.The really enjoyable exchange are those outside our ethnic based politics...otherwise some little honesty would reduce the long winding circular debates.

[Kichwa]

Moonki, What you are saying to NASA is very similar to what Robina, Vooke and to a certain extent RV Pundit have been saying here all along. Its called "you have made enough noise; raised some interesting issues that should be looked into; however, now shut-up and prepare for 2022 and let the Ouruto do their thing".  NASA would be stupid to listen to such advice and abandon its momentum for reforms/change and if all fails, secession.  Actually 2022 is no longer an important date for some of us in NASA unless some very serious dialogue resulting in serious constitutional reforms are made in the way we conduct elections, treat ourselves and govern ourselves.   If at a certain point NASA realizes that these goals  cannot be realized, then secession, as amusing as it maybe to some,  will be the only discussion that we will be having with our brothers and sisters in the republic.  2022 is therefore not a particularly very important or significant  year to NASA as it maybe to Ruto.

Fair enough, Moonki, for some of us, that time is now.  Some people in Kenya have had enough and cannot afford to wait for those who are still comfortable to feel their pain. The people who are causing the suffering are not stupid and will use tribalism to make sure that Kenyans will not feel as if they have had enough all at the same time. That is the whole idea behind kikuyu/Kalenjin alliance, stealing of votes and the tyranny of numbers.  Even Bashar Al-Asaad still has a segment of Syrians who support him and believe in him.

I don't see it as a matter of having to wait; what I think is that even those who are already fed up and want change right now might not achieve much until a sufficient number feel the pain.   Otherwise I am generally supportive of some ideas and plans that I have heard mentioned---those that would hasten the awakening of the citizenry---and there is no doubt that serious change is urgently needed.   Still, some of the ideas, such as the alternative or new republic, strike me as very funny indeed.  One hopes that energy and attention will be  directed into more fruitful activities.    But, perhaps, some good could come out of that too: the "Opposition" might in the next five years show that they can run their parts of the country (aforementioned alternative/new "republic") better than the rest of the country is run.

As for the "Kikuyu/Kalenjin Alliance", one thing to keep in mind is that from their point of view what they have done so far has worked out rather nicely, and they will no doubt use the same playbook in 2022.   They also have a "proactive" and "supportive" legislature that has hit the ground running, so to speak, and I would be astonished if they did not stay on that path.  I also expect the executive to continue in the same style we have seen so far.  So  I'd start thinking about and preparing for 2022 right now.

[vooke]

Moonki, What you are saying to NASA is very similar to what Robina, Vooke and to a certain extent RV Pundit have been saying here all along. Its called "you have made enough noise; raised some interesting issues that should be looked into; however, now shut-up and prepare for 2022 and let the Ouruto do their thing".  NASA would be stupid to listen to such advice and abandon its momentum for reforms/change and if all fails, secession.  Actually 2022 is no longer an important date for some of us in NASA unless some very serious dialogue resulting in serious constitutional reforms are made in the way we conduct elections, treat ourselves and govern ourselves.   If at a certain point NASA realizes that these goals  cannot be realized, then secession, as amusing as it maybe to some,  will be the only discussion that we will be having with our brothers and sisters in the republic.  2022 is therefore not a particularly very important or significant  year to NASA as it maybe to Ruto.

[RV Pundit]

Kichwa and his hardliners jumping from one bad idea to next will drive moderates in nasa to jubilee making it even harder for themselves.The luhyas,kambas and the rest will bolt leaving luos in yet another long wilderness in political periphery.You cannot keep changing the rules.Gema and kalenjin alliance is beatable down the line...but not by Raila.Give Kalonzo a chance....he might appeal to gema or st least wont terrify them.Obviusly the luo nation feel entitled and therefore Raila will keep at it.This is great news for Ruto.Seem 2012 is walk over

[Kichwa]

Vooke, I know it is hard for you to fathom, but NASA is not relying on Jubilee's benevolence/acceptance/permission  to achieve its goals. If I hear you correctly, you are saying that if Ouru's elections is upheld by SCOK, then NASA will have no choice but to wait for 2022 because Jubilee will not let them/permit them to pursue its goals.  T  Actually,  NASA is not pegging its hopes and aspirations on this upcoming SCOK ruling or 2022.  NASA will not participate in any other election until the changes it demands in the electoral system are made whether in 60 days, 90days or five years from now.  NASA will continue to agitate for those changes but if at a certain point,  NASA comes to the realization that those changes are not possible, then succession will be the only conversation, NASA will have with itself and others. 
 

Moonki, What you are saying to NASA is very similar to what Robina, Vooke and to a certain extent RV Pundit have been saying here all along. Its called "you have made enough noise; raised some interesting issues that should be looked into; however, now shut-up and prepare for 2022 and let the Ouruto do their thing".  NASA would be stupid to listen to such advice and abandon its momentum for reforms/change and if all fails, secession.  Actually 2022 is no longer an important date for some of us in NASA unless some very serious dialogue resulting in serious constitutional reforms are made in the way we conduct elections, treat ourselves and govern ourselves.   If at a certain point NASA realizes that these goals  cannot be realized, then secession, as amusing as it maybe to some,  will be the only discussion that we will be having with our brothers and sisters in the republic.  2022 is therefore not a particularly very important or significant  year to NASA as it maybe to Ruto.

[RV Pundit]

Secession based on temporary political alliance is the most stupid idea yet.NASA wont last longer.Some many leaders are cutting deals coz they know Raila is stuck and wants to take them down.Kalonzo Wiper will be first to go...followed by MaDvD

[Kichwa]

I know you are obsessed with numbers but this movement does not need a whole lot of people at this time. Actually most movements of its kind at this nascent stage, are not this big. NASA can therefore afford to lose a few people and become much tighter  but I do not think that's even going to happen.  The issues NASA is fighting for such as; electoral justice; inclusion; end to tribalism; anti-corruption; economic justice; social justice, etc., are very popular and I expect more people to join than leave in a country like Kenya where the majority are suffering.

Kichwa and his hardliners jumping from one bad idea to next will drive moderates in nasa to jubilee making it even harder for themselves.The luhyas,kambas and the rest will bolt leaving luos in yet another long wilderness in political periphery.You cannot keep changing the rules.Gema and kalenjin alliance is beatable down the line...but not by Raila.Give Kalonzo a chance....he might appeal to gema or st least wont terrify them.Obviusly the luo nation feel entitled and therefore Raila will keep at it.This is great news for Ruto.Seem 2012 is walk over

[Kichwa]

The secession is not our first agenda but it will be fine-tuned when/if it becomes the only alternative.  Right now reforms/Changes is very popular and its jubilee who should worry about losing people not NASA.

Secession based on temporary political alliance is the most stupid idea yet.NASA wont last longer.Some many leaders are cutting deals coz they know Raila is stuck and wants to take them down.Kalonzo Wiper will be first to go...followed by MaDvD

[RV Pundit]

Kichwa we are still far from issue based politics people will join or leave based on the direction key political leaders from their tribe take.you cannot form secession kind of movement from such.if luos want to secede that will be something...but not loose nasa alliance.People including international community will  actually sit down and listen to luo secession.

[vooke]

Vooke, I know it is hard for you to fathom, but NASA is not relying on Jubilee's benevolence/acceptance/permission  to achieve its goals. If I hear you correctly, you are saying that if Ouru's elections is upheld by SCOK, then NASA will have no choice but to wait for 2022 because Jubilee will not let them/permit them to pursue its goals.  T  Actually,  NASA is not pegging its hopes and aspirations on this upcoming SCOK ruling or 2022.  NASA will not participate in any other election until the changes it demands in the electoral system are made whether in 60 days, 90days or five years from now.  NASA will continue to agitate for those changes but if at a certain point,  NASA comes to the realization that those changes are not possible, then succession will be the only conversation, NASA will have with itself and others. 

No sir,
I'm being real.
SCOK majority upholding Uhuruto elections will rally more of Kenia and world at large behind Uhuruto. It will also silence NGOists for a better part of the next 5yrs. It will further paint Babu's quest as mere bitterness at his bad decisions. You can forget any constitutional reforms till 2032

Claims of SCOK being blackmailed/compromised will only be entertained by NASWA diehards.

Invalidation of course would send Babu to heaven.

Everything Babu/NASWA does rises and falls on SCOK

[Kichwa]

Vooke, Its nolonger, politics, PR and numbers for us.  Its a conviction.  We do not mind losing none-believers at this time-infact we encourage it. Pundit think its only luos but you would be surprised how many none-luos are involved at a very serious level. This movement is kicking off with more people than the Mau Mau, or the 2nd liberation movement.  Imagine if half of the country boycotted the elections of 1992, do you think Moi would have survived for another 10 years.  I am therefore very pleased at the numbers that we have right now and the fact that most NASA will not go back to another sham election regardless of what the western ambassadors in Nairobi think.

Vooke, I know it is hard for you to fathom, but NASA is not relying on Jubilee's benevolence/acceptance/permission  to achieve its goals. If I hear you correctly, you are saying that if Ouru's elections is upheld by SCOK, then NASA will have no choice but to wait for 2022 because Jubilee will not let them/permit them to pursue its goals.  T  Actually,  NASA is not pegging its hopes and aspirations on this upcoming SCOK ruling or 2022.  NASA will not participate in any other election until the changes it demands in the electoral system are made whether in 60 days, 90days or five years from now.  NASA will continue to agitate for those changes but if at a certain point,  NASA comes to the realization that those changes are not possible, then succession will be the only conversation, NASA will have with itself and others. 

No sir,
I'm being real.
SCOK majority upholding Uhuruto elections will rally more of Kenia and world at large behind Uhuruto. It will also silence NGOists for a better part of the next 5yrs. It will further paint Babu's quest as mere bitterness at his bad decisions. You can forget any constitutional reforms till 2032

Claims of SCOK being blackmailed/compromised will only be entertained by NASWA diehards.

Invalidation of course would send Babu to heaven.

Everything Babu/NASWA does rises and falls on SCOK

[Kichwa]

Vooke, Its no longer, politics, PR and jubilee numbers for us.  Its  conviction.  We do not mind losing none-believers at this time-infact we encourage them to leave.  This thing is now bigger than the principles of NASA.  Pundit think its only luos but he is only expressing WSR's long known political strategy to isolate the luos then rule Kenya happily ever after for eons.  This movement is kicking off with more people than the Mau Mau, 1st liberation movement or the 2nd liberation movement.  Imagine if half of the country boycotted the elections of 1992, Moi would not have survived another 10 years.  I am therefore very pleased at the numbers that we have right now, I am not worried about losing any NASA principle, or this movement becoming a solely luo affair.  The international community is very predictatable, they will always support the perceived winner and therefore neither Jubilee nor Nasa can really rely on them.

Vooke, I know it is hard for you to fathom, but NASA is not relying on Jubilee's benevolence/acceptance/permission  to achieve its goals. If I hear you correctly, you are saying that if Ouru's elections is upheld by SCOK, then NASA will have no choice but to wait for 2022 because Jubilee will not let them/permit them to pursue its goals.  T  Actually,  NASA is not pegging its hopes and aspirations on this upcoming SCOK ruling or 2022.  NASA will not participate in any other election until the changes it demands in the electoral system are made whether in 60 days, 90days or five years from now.  NASA will continue to agitate for those changes but if at a certain point,  NASA comes to the realization that those changes are not possible, then succession will be the only conversation, NASA will have with itself and others. 

No sir,
I'm being real.
SCOK majority upholding Uhuruto elections will rally more of Kenia and world at large behind Uhuruto. It will also silence NGOists for a better part of the next 5yrs. It will further paint Babu's quest as mere bitterness at his bad decisions. You can forget any constitutional reforms till 2032

Claims of SCOK being blackmailed/compromised will only be entertained by NASWA diehards.

Invalidation of course would send Babu to heaven.

Everything Babu/NASWA does rises and falls on SCOK

[MOON Ki]

Moonki, What you are saying to NASA is very similar to what Robina, Vooke and to a certain extent RV Pundit have been saying here all along. Its called "you have made enough noise; raised some interesting issues that should be looked into; however, now shut-up and prepare for 2022 and let the Ouruto do their thing". 

That is a bizarre interpretation of what I wrote.   

NASA would be stupid to listen to such advice and abandon its momentum for reforms/change and if all fails, secession.  Actually 2022 is no longer an important date for some of us in NASA unless some very serious dialogue resulting in serious constitutional reforms are made in the way we conduct elections, treat ourselves and govern ourselves.   If at a certain point NASA realizes that these goals  cannot be realized, then secession, as amusing as it maybe to some,  will be the only discussion that we will be having with our brothers and sisters in the republic.  2022 is therefore not a particularly very important or significant  year to NASA as it maybe to Ruto.

Good luck with all of that.

[vooke]

Vooke, Its nolonger, politics, PR and numbers for us.  Its a conviction.  We do not mind losing none-believers at this time-infact we encourage it. Pundit think its only luos but you would be surprised how many none-luos are involved at a very serious level. This movement is kicking off with more people than the Mau Mau, or the 2nd liberation movement.  Imagine if half of the country boycotted the elections of 1992, do you think Moi would have survived for another 10 years.  I am therefore very pleased at the numbers that we have right now and the fact that most NASA will not go back to another sham election regardless of what the western ambassadors in Nairobi think.

Invalidation will go a long way in giving meat to your convictions.
Upholding the victory will set you so far back than even before 2013. You have a world respected court calling your withdrawal BS. Babu will be conflicted between following katiba and going rogue. Jubilee will be sleeping as you scheme your next move

In short, everything Babu does is down to #WakoraNetwork

[Kichwa]

Moonki, What you are saying to NASA is very similar to what Robina, Vooke and to a certain extent RV Pundit have been saying here all along. Its called "you have made enough noise; raised some interesting issues that should be looked into; however, now shut-up and prepare for 2022 and let the Ouruto do their thing". 

That is a bizarre interpretation of what I wrote.   

NASA would be stupid to listen to such advice and abandon its momentum for reforms/change and if all fails, secession.  Actually 2022 is no longer an important date for some of us in NASA unless some very serious dialogue resulting in serious constitutional reforms are made in the way we conduct elections, treat ourselves and govern ourselves.   If at a certain point NASA realizes that these goals  cannot be realized, then secession, as amusing as it maybe to some,  will be the only discussion that we will be having with our brothers and sisters in the republic.  2022 is therefore not a particularly very important or significant  year to NASA as it maybe to Ruto.

Good luck with all of that.

Thank you, we need all the well wishes we can get. Its a tough job but someone has to do it.