The Peoples' Republic is coming

[Kichwa]

The problem with Robina and Ole is that they are very selective about the law and shameless hypocricy .  The people who designed this sophisticated rigging machine broke the law big time.  They stole the money that they used to design this illegality and irregularity; they killed Msando; they bribed IEBC officials and commissioners; they intimidated judges and scuttled a SKOC quorum; they declared a holiday to scuttle justice but when judge Odunga ruled against them, all of a sudden, three judges showed up to overturn judge Odunga's ruling.  These are the kind of lawlessness we should be worried about and these are the kinds of illegalitie that destroys a democracy and not a few teenagers throwing stones at policemen in rioting gear and armed to the teeth. 

Democracy consist of a free and fair election. Federalism won't work without adhering to the rule of law and following  due process.

Federalism is a journey. NASA needs to respect democracy first and play a responsible opposition.

[Nefertiti]

The "sophisticated rigging machinery", the corrupt commissioners, etc are just like the peaceful boycott. Propaganda. Seems Chebukati is now corrupt too because he won't sabotage the elections. Poor man.

Losing is never good. It sucks. I supported many candidates that lost too. Stop the tribalism and respect democracy.

[Kichwa]

You know what Robina, if you think they are just propaganda and that elections in Kenya since 2007 have been free and fair then you are entitled to that opinion and you can support Ouruto.

The "sophisticated rigging machinery", the corrupt commissioners, etc are just like the peaceful boycott. Propaganda. Seems Chebukati is now corrupt too because he won't sabotage the elections. Poor man.

Losing is never good. It sucks. I supported many candidates that lost too. Stop the tribalism and respect democracy.

[bryan275]

You know what Robina, if you think they are just propaganda and that elections in Kenya since 2007 have been free and fair then you are entitled to that opinion and you can support Ouruto.

The "sophisticated rigging machinery", the corrupt commissioners, etc are just like the peaceful boycott. Propaganda. Seems Chebukati is now corrupt too because he won't sabotage the elections. Poor man.

Losing is never good. It sucks. I supported many candidates that lost too. Stop the tribalism and respect democracy.

I am now convinced that Robina is both a wind up merchant and a tease. 

[Nefertiti]

I am just a democratic. After backing PK, Munya, Isaac, Raila - they have all gone rogue in self righteous rage - but am still here watching them make asses of themselves. Except Munya & Ruto who have been fooled they will be CS. For Raila to take you for a ride - abusing your tribal loyalty - what does it say about you?

Candidates lose elections. Chebukati was not pulled from thin air like Kivuitu or Chesoni. So don't conflate this with 2007. Face the hard cold truth - our man Raila Odinga lost the elections - to the better men. We supported him for reasons apart hence my ability to accept this truth.

Sorry I won't join you in demonizing the IEBC. Or in newer reforms. Or the parliamentary system. Or secession. Or burning down the country. Embrace democracy.

[KenyanPlato]

I agree with Robina. Raila should end the insurgency it doesn't help Kenya.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I am just a democratic. After backing PK, Munya, Isaac, Raila - they have all gone rogue in self righteous rage - but am still here watching them make asses of themselves. Except Munya & Ruto who have been fooled they will be CS. For Raila to take you for a ride - abusing your tribal loyalty - what does it say about you?

Candidates lose elections. Chebukati was not pulled from thin air like Kivuitu or Chesoni. So don't conflate this with 2007. Face the hard cold truth - our man Raila Odinga lost the elections - to the better men. We supported him for reasons apart hence my ability to accept this truth.

Sorry I won't join you in demonizing the IEBC. Or in newer reforms. Or the parliamentary system. Or secession. Or burning down the country. Embrace democracy.

If IEBC opens their servers, I will without a second thought join Robina.

[Kichwa]

Robina, this country is already divided into two political camps and I do not think you add value or take away to any side by joining or leaving.  Just pick one side and stick to it.  I am glad you are finally gathering the courage to get off the fence and have a msimamo.

I am just a democratic. After backing PK, Munya, Isaac, Raila - they have all gone rogue in self righteous rage - but am still here watching them make asses of themselves. Except Munya & Ruto who have been fooled they will be CS. For Raila to take you for a ride - abusing your tribal loyalty - what does it say about you?

Candidates lose elections. Chebukati was not pulled from thin air like Kivuitu or Chesoni. So don't conflate this with 2007. Face the hard cold truth - our man Raila Odinga lost the elections - to the better men. We supported him for reasons apart hence my ability to accept this truth.

Sorry I won't join you in demonizing the IEBC. Or in newer reforms. Or the parliamentary system. Or secession. Or burning down the country. Embrace democracy.

[Nefertiti]

In mature democracies there is a substantial independent block. I am a pioneer in Kenya.

Robina, this country is already divided into two political camps and I do not think you add value or take away to any side by joining or leaving.  Just pick one side and stick to it.  I am glad you are finally gathering the courage to get off the fence and have a msimamo.

I am just a democratic. After backing PK, Munya, Isaac, Raila - they have all gone rogue in self righteous rage - but am still here watching them make asses of themselves. Except Munya & Ruto who have been fooled they will be CS. For Raila to take you for a ride - abusing your tribal loyalty - what does it say about you?

Candidates lose elections. Chebukati was not pulled from thin air like Kivuitu or Chesoni. So don't conflate this with 2007. Face the hard cold truth - our man Raila Odinga lost the elections - to the better men. We supported him for reasons apart hence my ability to accept this truth.

Sorry I won't join you in demonizing the IEBC. Or in newer reforms. Or the parliamentary system. Or secession. Or burning down the country. Embrace democracy.

[Kichwa]

When Kenya becomes a democracy many of us fighting for democracy will become independent.  Those who sit in the fence during the fight for democracy cannot earn that title.  The best descriptive word for them is sell-outs.

In mature democracies there is a substantial independent block. I am a pioneer in Kenya.

Robina, this country is already divided into two political camps and I do not think you add value or take away to any side by joining or leaving.  Just pick one side and stick to it.  I am glad you are finally gathering the courage to get off the fence and have a msimamo.

I am just a democratic. After backing PK, Munya, Isaac, Raila - they have all gone rogue in self righteous rage - but am still here watching them make asses of themselves. Except Munya & Ruto who have been fooled they will be CS. For Raila to take you for a ride - abusing your tribal loyalty - what does it say about you?

Candidates lose elections. Chebukati was not pulled from thin air like Kivuitu or Chesoni. So don't conflate this with 2007. Face the hard cold truth - our man Raila Odinga lost the elections - to the better men. We supported him for reasons apart hence my ability to accept this truth.

Sorry I won't join you in demonizing the IEBC. Or in newer reforms. Or the parliamentary system. Or secession. Or burning down the country. Embrace democracy.

[Ole]

I know how I am being selective. Reread my reply to Robina. I don't think secession is the answer. The answer is more devolution, free and fair election and a corrupt free country. I don't know if you disagree with that.
[/ quote author=Kichwa
link=topic=6164.msg49127#msg49127 date=1509286513]
The problem with Robina and Ole is that they are very selective about the law and shameless hypocricy .  The people who designed this sophisticated rigging machine broke the law big time.  They stole the money that they used to design this illegality and irregularity; they killed Msando; they bribed IEBC officials and commissioners; they intimidated judges and scuttled a SKOC quorum; they declared a holiday to scuttle justice but when judge Odunga ruled against them, all of a sudden, three judges showed up to overturn judge Odunga's ruling.  These are the kind of lawlessness we should be worried about and these are the kinds of illegalitie that destroys a democracy and not a few teenagers throwing stones at policemen in rioting gear and armed to the teeth. 

Democracy consist of a free and fair election. Federalism won't work without adhering to the rule of law and following  due process.

Federalism is a journey. NASA needs to respect democracy first and play a responsible opposition.

[/quote]

[GeeMail]

Secession is the solution here. It may be long and painful but let ouruto remain with their wild west looting kleptocracy. Those who want to be pernanent and pensionable citizens of that empire are free to join the choir cheering the twosome.

[Kichwa]

Ole, Sorry if I misunderstood your position.  However, Raila is right now just asking for free and fair elections-and he is being demonized and asked to retire and disapear .  What they do not understand is when Raila is out of the scene, his supporters are more radicalized and will be asking for mush more. Secession is gaining currency very first and do not be surprised if it becomes the bottom line when Raila is sent to retirement as Ruto and his supporters have always dreamnt.  All we are saying is that wapende wasipende is nolonger applicable to us because the option of secession is now available to us as  a political cause. We have no illusions of how long it may take but that is now an option which Ruto never thought we had in his political design where power shifts from Kalenjin to kikuyus  for 100 years.

[I don't know how I am being selective. Reread my reply to Robina. I don't think secession is the answer. The answer is more devolution, free and fair election and a corrupt free country. I don't know if you disagree with that.
quote author=Kichwa

link=topic=6164.msg49127#msg49127 date=1509286513]
The problem with Robina and Ole is that they are very selective about the law and shameless hypocricy .  The people who designed this sophisticated rigging machine broke the law big time.  They stole the money that they used to design this illegality and irregularity; they killed Msando; they bribed IEBC officials and commissioners; they intimidated judges and scuttled a SKOC quorum; they declared a holiday to scuttle justice but when judge Odunga ruled against them, all of a sudden, three judges showed up to overturn judge Odunga's ruling.  These are the kind of lawlessness we should be worried about and these are the kinds of illegalitie that destroys a democracy and not a few teenagers throwing stones at policemen in rioting gear and armed to the teeth. 

Democracy consist of a free and fair election. Federalism won't work without adhering to the rule of law and following  due process.

Federalism is a journey. NASA needs to respect democracy first and play a responsible opposition.

[/quote]

[Ole]

Secession is not as easy as you think.

Secession is the solution here. It may be long and painful but let ouruto remain with their wild west looting kleptocracy. Those who want to be pernanent and pensionable citizens of that empire are free to join the choir cheering the twosome.

[Kichwa]

Keeping us in the Republic of Kenya under ouruto political design will be even harder.

Secession is not as easy as you think.

Secession is the solution here. It may be long and painful but let ouruto remain with their wild west looting kleptocracy. Those who want to be pernanent and pensionable citizens of that empire are free to join the choir cheering the twosome.

[Ole]

I also want a free and equitable country. It'seems never good when more than half of the country feel disenfranchised and left out. But I think the best solution is completely diminishing the size of the National government. We need a system like the one in the states where life goes on no matter which party controls the presidency and or Congress. People need to feel part of the whole pie. BUT secession is not a solution. At least not now.

Ole, Sorry if I misunderstood your position.  However, Raila is right now just asking for free and fair elections-and he is being demonized and asked to retire and disapear .  What they do not understand is when Raila is out of the scene, his supporters are more radicalized and will be asking for mush more. Secession is gaining currency very first and do not be surprised if it becomes the bottom line when Raila is sent to retirement as Ruto and his supporters have always dreamnt.  All we are saying is that wapende wasipende is nolonger applicable to us because the option of secession is now available to us as  a political cause. We have no illusions of how long it may take but that is now an option which Ruto never thought we had in his political design where power shifts from Kalenjin to kikuyus  for 100 years.

[I don't know how I am being selective. Reread my reply to Robina. I don't think secession is the answer. The answer is more devolution, free and fair election and a corrupt free country. I don't know if you disagree with that.
quote author=Kichwa

link=topic=6164.msg49127#msg49127 date=1509286513]
The problem with Robina and Ole is that they are very selective about the law and shameless hypocricy .  The people who designed this sophisticated rigging machine broke the law big time.  They stole the money that they used to design this illegality and irregularity; they killed Msando; they bribed IEBC officials and commissioners; they intimidated judges and scuttled a SKOC quorum; they declared a holiday to scuttle justice but when judge Odunga ruled against them, all of a sudden, three judges showed up to overturn judge Odunga's ruling.  These are the kind of lawlessness we should be worried about and these are the kinds of illegalitie that destroys a democracy and not a few teenagers throwing stones at policemen in rioting gear and armed to the teeth. 

Democracy consist of a free and fair election. Federalism won't work without adhering to the rule of law and following  due process.

Federalism is a journey. NASA needs to respect democracy first and play a responsible opposition.

[/quote]

[bryan275]

Secession is not as easy as you think.

Secession is the solution here. It may be long and painful but let ouruto remain with their wild west looting kleptocracy. Those who want to be pernanent and pensionable citizens of that empire are free to join the choir cheering the twosome.

Staying under the violent kleptocratic regime is even harder.  Ruto and uhuru will be free to rule their tribal enclave for as long as they desire.  Besides their dream of Odinga never leading them will be guaranteed.

[Nefertiti]

Kenya is a presidential democracy with a brand new constitution. All institutions have been demonized for rejecting the "reforms" charade. Even the constitution now is Jubilee's document - so we need majimbo and a magical parliamentary system. Even the observers and diplomats are all Jubilee now.

Face it. The secession and resistance are a Luocentric affair. That's the real driver of the calls to overthrow the system. TRIBALISM.

My msimamo [sic] is learn to respect democracy. Especially when it does not favor you.

[bryan275]

Kenya is a presidential democracy with a brand new constitution. All institutions have been demonized for rejecting the "reforms" charade. Even the constitution now is Jubilee's document - so we need majimbo and a magical parliamentary system. Even the observers and diplomats are all Jubilee now.

Face it. The secession and resistance are a Luocentric affair. That's the real driver of the calls to overthrow the system. TRIBALISM.

My msimamo [sic] is learn to respect democracy. Especially when it does not favor you.

NASA is not a LUO outfit, that is low intelligence Jubilidiot thinking.... I am surprised to see you advancing the same

[Kichwa]

Learn how to respect democracy!!  You are a very good student of Ouruto. God forbid they give you the security docket, you would unleash the  police on us perennial luo complainants to teach us how to "respect democracy", Uthamaki and benevolent dictatorship.  You are a very fast learner.

Kenya is a presidential democracy with a brand new constitution. All institutions have been demonized for rejecting the "reforms" charade. Even the constitution now is Jubilee's document - so we need majimbo and a magical parliamentary system. Even the observers and diplomats are all Jubilee now.

Face it. The secession and resistance are a Luocentric affair. That's the real driver of the calls to overthrow the system. TRIBALISM.

My msimamo [sic] is learn to respect democracy. Especially when it does not favor you.