vooke, Pundit and Robina, come here: Lets talk about SCOK petition documentation

[Omollo]

Read the Regitsrar's report point number 34.

I assume ALL of you read the affidavits He who did not can speak up and I will try to point to the affidavit.

Here is how it worked:

NASA was NOT engaged in recounts and Form 34A is NOT a recount. 4000 Form 34A represent close to 3 million votes. It is enough ton show a sample (and here you can ask Pundit to calculate what % 3M votes represent).

The focus then turned to Form 34B where ALL were examined.

For details of how the Majority interpreted the errors (unless you want Omollosque Opinion) wait for the judgment.

It is however clear that the votes that could not be accounted for in form 34A far exceed the difference between Uhuru and Raila. The difference in 34B is over 5 million votes.

I am bored with all this as I paid 100% attention and for me it is history. Jubilee people are slow and will take time to get simple facts in their heads.  BUT good luck

My last contribution. Have to sleep early Kanisani (SDA Fanatic Kesho)
 

Let me know your verdict

You know it is really shameful that Kindiki can call himself a professor, sit in court daily and come out unaware that Forms 34A came up.

Their position is that form 34 As were scrutinized only for "minor errors" and discrepancies between them and form 34 Bs, but that NASA did not produce alternative copies from their own agents and others to show different results/documents than those presented by IEBC. They were like, that's the sole indicator for rigging and everything else is DOA. That only one copy of each result exists, basically, and the debate is only that mistakes were in the entering, tallying etc. Orengo is saying that they DID produce these alternative copies and tabled them before the court along with the sworn testimony of agents. He says they focused on 34 Bs due to the very short time. Yes, I'll brag again and say, when I said these decisions were matters of strategy, I wasn't wrong.

[Omollo]

You are impervious!

Define RIGGING and then we proceed from there.

It simple.we have vibrant social media and iebc portal...if election was massively rigged...any nyaboke or moraa would have easily compared what she saw in some polling station..and what iebc have.I an yet to see one such single evidence.All we are hearing is evidence as powerful as this is hidden in middle of nasa evidence.Why deploy agents if not to produce such evidence.No rigging took place.SCOk went for form instead of substance..and I agree with njoki n Ojwang strong dissent.

[vooke]

This issue received less than negligible mention in the written submission

http://www.judiciary.go.ke/portal/assets/filemanager_uploads/A%20-%20Presidential%20Petitions%202017/amicus/Petitioners%20Written%20Submissions.pdf

So the claim of thousands of forms 34A directly obtained by NASWA agents,and that was altered is still unverified.

Quite possible Jimmy was bluffing

[Kadame7]

This issue received less than negligible mention in the written submission

http://www.judiciary.go.ke/portal/assets/filemanager_uploads/A%20-%20Presidential%20Petitions%202017/amicus/Petitioners%20Written%20Submissions.pdf

So the claim of thousands of forms 34A directly obtained by NASWA agents,and that was altered is still unverified.

Quite possible Jimmy was bluffing

Got it. Orengo on TV claimed he filed and served Jubilee and IEBC docs he never filed and served. Because he did not argue the point in his submissions. We understand each other.

[vooke]

Read the Regitsrar's report point number 34.

I assume ALL of you read the affidavits He who did not can speak up and I will try to point to the affidavit.

Here is how it worked:

NASA was NOT engaged in recounts and Form 34A is NOT a recount. 4000 Form 34A represent close to 3 million votes. It is enough ton show a sample (and here you can ask Pundit to calculate what % 3M votes represent).

The focus then turned to Form 34B where ALL were examined.

For details of how the Majority interpreted the errors (unless you want Omollosque Opinion) wait for the judgment.

It is however clear that the votes that could not be accounted for in form 34A far exceed the difference between Uhuru and Raila. The difference in 34B is over 5 million votes.

I am bored with all this as I paid 100% attention and for me it is history. Jubilee people are slow and will take time to get simple facts in their heads.  BUT good luck

My last contribution. Have to sleep early Kanisani (SDA Fanatic Kesho)
 

Let me know your verdict

You know it is really shameful that Kindiki can call himself a professor, sit in court daily and come out unaware that Forms 34A came up.

Their position is that form 34 As were scrutinized only for "minor errors" and discrepancies between them and form 34 Bs, but that NASA did not produce alternative copies from their own agents and others to show different results/documents than those presented by IEBC. They were like, that's the sole indicator for rigging and everything else is DOA. That only one copy of each result exists, basically, and the debate is only that mistakes were in the entering, tallying etc. Orengo is saying that they DID produce these alternative copies and tabled them before the court along with the sworn testimony of agents. He says they focused on 34 Bs due to the very short time. Yes, I'll brag again and say, when I said these decisions were matters of strategy, I wasn't wrong.

The scrutiny involved documents supplied by IEBC during the petition, and not NASWA agents which are the subject of the thread. NASWA agents provided next to nothing that was at variance with IEBC scans

[Kadame7]

Read the Regitsrar's report point number 34.

I assume ALL of you read the affidavits He who did not can speak up and I will try to point to the affidavit.

Here is how it worked:

NASA was NOT engaged in recounts and Form 34A is NOT a recount. 4000 Form 34A represent close to 3 million votes. It is enough ton show a sample (and here you can ask Pundit to calculate what % 3M votes represent).

The focus then turned to Form 34B where ALL were examined.

For details of how the Majority interpreted the errors (unless you want Omollosque Opinion) wait for the judgment.

It is however clear that the votes that could not be accounted for in form 34A far exceed the difference between Uhuru and Raila. The difference in 34B is over 5 million votes.

I am bored with all this as I paid 100% attention and for me it is history. Jubilee people are slow and will take time to get simple facts in their heads.  BUT good luck

My last contribution. Have to sleep early Kanisani (SDA Fanatic Kesho)
 

Let me know your verdict

You know it is really shameful that Kindiki can call himself a professor, sit in court daily and come out unaware that Forms 34A came up.

Their position is that form 34 As were scrutinized only for "minor errors" and discrepancies between them and form 34 Bs, but that NASA did not produce alternative copies from their own agents and others to show different results/documents than those presented by IEBC. They were like, that's the sole indicator for rigging and everything else is DOA. That only one copy of each result exists, basically, and the debate is only that mistakes were in the entering, tallying etc. Orengo is saying that they DID produce these alternative copies and tabled them before the court along with the sworn testimony of agents. He says they focused on 34 Bs due to the very short time. Yes, I'll brag again and say, when I said these decisions were matters of strategy, I wasn't wrong.

Omollo, they admit all that. They just claim it was scrutiny based on forms IEBC provided only. Orengo is saying they presented alternative docs to the court from agents. vooke and Pundit say he is lying.

[vooke]

This issue received less than negligible mention in the written submission

http://www.judiciary.go.ke/portal/assets/filemanager_uploads/A%20-%20Presidential%20Petitions%202017/amicus/Petitioners%20Written%20Submissions.pdf

So the claim of thousands of forms 34A directly obtained by NASWA agents,and that was altered is still unverified.

Quite possible Jimmy was bluffing

Got it. Orengo on TV claimed he filed and served Jubilee and IEBC docs he never filed and served. Because he did not argue the point in his submissions. We understand each other.

It is not in the written submissions nor in the oral. Your smoking gun is a subsequent quote in a show. That's more relevant that the actual documents filed in court. Ok

[Kadame7]

This issue received less than negligible mention in the written submission

http://www.judiciary.go.ke/portal/assets/filemanager_uploads/A%20-%20Presidential%20Petitions%202017/amicus/Petitioners%20Written%20Submissions.pdf

So the claim of thousands of forms 34A directly obtained by NASWA agents,and that was altered is still unverified.

Quite possible Jimmy was bluffing

Got it. Orengo on TV claimed he filed and served Jubilee and IEBC docs he never filed and served. Because he did not argue the point in his submissions. We understand each other.

It is not in the written submissions nor in the oral. Your smoking gun is a subsequent quote in a show. That's more relevant that the actual documents filed in court. Ok

What part of strategy do you not get? Orengo was lead counsel of the petitioner, he's the one that filed the docs and the one that decided with others on strategy. It's not like he is an Othorong'ong'o on the streets. You're basically saying he did not file docs he says he filed and is plain lying about something Ahmednassir, Ngatia, PLO, Muite and all can just embarrass him in a tweet for. What contradiction do you see between the filing these docs and those submissions? You seem to be asking me to decide which one I believe like I can only choose one. And submissions are not the only "actual documents in court"...have you gone through the thousands of documents presented at the registry?

Lastly, do you know the meaning of a smoking gun? Again, as I said to Pundit, no one is asking you to accept that such docs are authentic...just wondered if you still believed they were non-existent after Orengo rebuffed this idea re Kindiki on TV yesterday. I got my answer, that's all.

[RV Pundit]

Show me the evidence.Orengo this or that is like reading Omollo online farts.

[Georgesoros]

Listening to this argument one can clearly present a case study of how people think when th re is clear facts. It's like watching Trump. The guy makes up his mind and looks for facts supporting evidence. And even when there's are no facts, he still sticks to his notion of evidence. Clearly a case of narcissistic behaviors.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Let me know your verdict

You know it is really shameful that Kindiki can call himself a professor, sit in court daily and come out unaware that Forms 34A came up.

Their position is that form 34 As were scrutinized only for "minor errors" and discrepancies between them and form 34 Bs, but that NASA did not produce alternative copies from their own agents and others to show different results/documents than those presented by IEBC. They were like, that's the sole indicator for rigging and everything else is DOA. That only one copy of each result exists, basically, and the debate is only that mistakes were in the entering, tallying etc. Orengo is saying that they DID produce these alternative copies and tabled them before the court along with the sworn testimony of agents. He says they focused on 34 Bs due to the very short time. Yes, I'll brag again and say, when I said these decisions were matters of strategy, I wasn't wrong.

If it counts for something, I understand why you are bragging.  Because I also understand what you mean when you say what was canvassed was a matter of strategy.  A winning strategy.  Where it mattered. 

[vooke]

This issue received less than negligible mention in the written submission

http://www.judiciary.go.ke/portal/assets/filemanager_uploads/A%20-%20Presidential%20Petitions%202017/amicus/Petitioners%20Written%20Submissions.pdf

So the claim of thousands of forms 34A directly obtained by NASWA agents,and that was altered is still unverified.

Quite possible Jimmy was bluffing

Got it. Orengo on TV claimed he filed and served Jubilee and IEBC docs he never filed and served. Because he did not argue the point in his submissions. We understand each other.

It is not in the written submissions nor in the oral. Your smoking gun is a subsequent quote in a show. That's more relevant that the actual documents filed in court. Ok

What part of strategy do you not get? Orengo was lead counsel of the petitioner, he's the one that filed the docs and the one that decided with others on strategy. It's not like he is an Othorong'ong'o on the streets. You're basically saying he did not file docs he says he filed and is plain lying about something Ahmednassir, Ngatia, PLO, Muite and all can just embarrass him in a tweet for. What contradiction do you see between the filing these docs and those submissions? You seem to be asking me to decide which one I believe like I can only choose one. And submissions are not the only "actual documents in court"...have you gone through the thousands of documents presented at the registry?

Lastly, do you know the meaning of a smoking gun? Again, as I said to Pundit, no one is asking you to accept that such docs are authentic...just wondered if you still believed they were non-existent after Orengo rebuffed this idea re Kindiki on TV yesterday. I got my answer, that's all.

Strategy theory is nonsensical
Why would they make copies of thousands of these documents and present them in court only to fail mentioning them both in the orals and written submissions in the first place? There simply were none save for the 20 or so

NASWA deployed agents,and I estimated they did so in less than half of the polling stations,who sent both copies and independent scans. Next t nil of these were altered. So they added zero value to their case and ended up never being mentioned precisely because of that.

Why would I believe they was existent,because Jimmy said  long after the case, and nobody is rebuffing him?

I'm not aksin you to revise your beliefs. I really don't care what you believe;just keep on scraping the bottom of the barrel, you may save face

[vooke]

Listening to this argument one can clearly present a case study of how people think when th re is clear facts. It's like watching Trump. The guy makes up his mind and looks for facts supporting evidence. And even when there's are no facts, he still sticks to his notion of evidence. Clearly a case of narcissistic behaviors.

Damn right,
Someone imagined thousands of independently collected forms 34A was altered,and this was mentioned in court. They have been busy looking for 'facts supporting evidence'. Neither Oral submissions nor written submissions will stand in their way

[bryan275]

Jubilidiots are a hilarious bunch.  My reading of this is as follows:  Orengo discovers that there are fake 1k bob notes in circulation and all available evidence shows that they are coming from cbk vaults.  He runs to court claiming that there are fake currency notes coming out of cbk.   Maraga sends the registrar to inspect the currency in the vaults and confirms that some are missing serial numbers, others missing the chief cashier's signature.  Some even have juha kalulu portraits!  She reports this to maraga who then agrees with Orengo that indeed there are fake 1k bob notes in the cbk vaults.

Jubilidiots refuse to accept this conclusion and insist that Orengo (a basic raia) shows them some real 1k bob notes that prove  that the cbk notes are indeed fake.

Jesus Christ.

[Kichwa]

This case was already litigated and we know who won.

[Kadame7]

Strategy theory is nonsensical
Why would they make copies of thousands of these documents and present them in court only to fail mentioning them both in the orals and written submissions in the first place? There simply were none save for the 20 or so

NASWA deployed agents,and I estimated they did so in less than half of the polling stations,who sent both copies and independent scans. Next t nil of these were altered. So they added zero value to their case and ended up never being mentioned precisely because of that.

Why would I believe they was existent,because Jimmy said  long after the case, and nobody is rebuffing him?

I'm not aksin you to revise your beliefs. I really don't care what you believe;just keep on scraping the bottom of the barrel, you may save face

Wow, lol. That was a quick and mighty turn to rudeness wasnt it? Its ok pastor. Dont mess your christianity over an online debate.

Now, which 20 or so? How did you come up with that number? The debate on nipate has been you all have not seen even one so they can't possibly exist.

About face-saving, sure coz you think I need that. I'm not as desperate to be proven right, I'm afraid. Its the easiest thing in the world for me to say, oops! I didn't know. Kumbe! So don't you worry about my face . She and I will be alright whatever arguments we win or lose.

But it's still interesting that "face-saving" should come from the one claiming to know more about the petition docs than the counsels involved because you read some submissions online. And here you say, like a "boss", ati the strategy "theory" is nonsense. No wonder Jubilee lost. Did you not hear the guy who made the submissions say that they DECIDED to concentrate on "CONSTITUENCY results" due to the constrains of time?

Orengo and company filed EVERYTHING not knowing which if ANY of their requests would be granted. They found the court favourable and got access to the "vaults" of IEBC itself. They spent a good deal of their time and energy finding the many glaring and obvious errors in the documents already admitted by the IEBC itself, chosing to rely on these as they COULD NOT BE DISPUTED rather than get into endless debates about which documents, theirs or IEBC's, were genuine/forged. I remember Muite saying:They signed! Let them bring their agents here to tesify that these are fake and not their signatures.

Anyway, I got my answer: Orengo lied. If you read my OP, that's all I asked. The bitterness is therefore unnecessary. Thanks for answering: both the OP and the 20 docs Orengo has (in advance).

[Kadame7]

Listening to this argument one can clearly present a case study of how people think when th re is clear facts. It's like watching Trump. The guy makes up his mind and looks for facts supporting evidence. And even when there's are no facts, he still sticks to his notion of evidence. Clearly a case of narcissistic behaviors.

Damn right,
Someone imagined thousands of independently collected forms 34A was altered,and this was mentioned in court. They have been busy looking for 'facts supporting evidence'. Neither Oral submissions nor written submissions will stand in their way

Please. I didnt bother looking. I knew I read it somewhere, never claimed I heard it in court, just the opposite in fact. So the problem is the idea there are "thousands" such docs not that they exist. Got it.

[vooke]

Strategy theory is nonsensical
Why would they make copies of thousands of these documents and present them in court only to fail mentioning them both in the orals and written submissions in the first place? There simply were none save for the 20 or so

NASWA deployed agents,and I estimated they did so in less than half of the polling stations,who sent both copies and independent scans. Next t nil of these were altered. So they added zero value to their case and ended up never being mentioned precisely because of that.

Why would I believe they was existent,because Jimmy said  long after the case, and nobody is rebuffing him?

I'm not aksin you to revise your beliefs. I really don't care what you believe;just keep on scraping the bottom of the barrel, you may save face

Wow, lol. That was a quick and mighty turn to rudeness wasnt it? Its ok pastor. Dont mess your christianity over an online debate.

Now, which 20 or so? How did you come up with that number? The debate on nipate has been you all have not seen even one so they can't possibly exist.

About face-saving, sure coz you think I need that. I'm not as desperate to be proven right, I'm afraid. Its the easiest thing in the world for me to say, oops! I didn't know. Kumbe! So don't you worry about my face . She and I will be alright whatever arguments we win or lose.

But it's still interesting that "face-saving" should come from the one claiming to know more about the petition docs than the counsels involved because you read some submissions online. And here you say, like a "boss", ati the strategy "theory" is nonsense. No wonder Jubilee lost. Did you not hear the guy who made the submissions say that they DECIDED to concentrate on "CONSTITUENCY results" due to the constrains of time?

Orengo and company filed EVERYTHING not knowing which if ANY of their requests would be granted. They found the court favourable and got access to the "vaults" of IEBC itself. They spent a good deal of their time and energy finding the many glaring and obvious errors in the documents already admitted by the IEBC itself, chosing to rely on these as they COULD NOT BE DISPUTED rather than get into endless debates about which documents, theirs or IEBC's, were genuine/forged. I remember Muite saying:They signed! Let them bring their agents here to tesify that these are fake and not their signatures.

Anyway, I got my answer: Orengo lied. If you read my OP, that's all I asked. The bitterness is therefore unnecessary. Thanks for answering: both the OP and the 20 docs Orengo has (in advance).

Just about every respondents' lawyer asked for this and none was forthcoming.

Strategy remains pure nonsense because there's every reason to include these documents and no reason to omit them. And Nyangasi did inject them in his affidavit,and only came to about 20.

Contigent filing? You probably know better, can you file stuff totally not referenced to in the petition,written submissions and affidavits and then introduce it as need arises?

I have not claimed to know more than Orengo but I clearly recall what he said. It is along this reasoning we wondered why hacking theory was conspicuously missing from the Petition and its submissions.

You probably heard of these documents outside the court just as server logs. But NASWA released the server logs and they was debunked. Nobody is saying the documents are not there,we just wonder how such incriminating evidence was kept off the public,kept off the submissions and petition,and conclude it is not there

[Kadame7]

Just about every respondents' lawyer asked for this and none was forthcoming.

Strategy remains pure nonsense because there's every reason to include these documents and no reason to omit them. And Nyangasi did inject them in his affidavit,and only came to about 20.

Contigent filing? You probably know better, can you file stuff totally not referenced to in the petition,written submissions and affidavits and then introduce it as need arises?

I have not claimed to know more than Orengo but I clearly recall what he said. It is along this reasoning we wondered why hacking theory was conspicuously missing from the Petition and its submissions.

You probably heard of these documents outside the court just as server logs. But NASWA released the server logs and they was debunked. Nobody is saying the documents are not there,we just wonder how such incriminating evidence was kept off the public,kept off the submissions and petition,and conclude it is not there

Well, I have seen here more than once a challenge to produce just one photo, just ten, that's all you need etc. Same as Kindiki's claim that not even one person swore an affidavit, etc etc. This is why I kept asking if you guys doubt they exist after what Orengo said. For if they were there, even the 20 you mention, which if I'm understanding you WERE mentioned, then the challenge for just one or a few photos wouldnt make sense. After all, even these are not floating around on the web in photo form.

Apparently this whole time, you only doubted that there were many, not that they were there. Understood. But this is not what I read on this board severally.

As for me, I saw a few videos of the proceedings and read the scrutiny and ICT reports to decide my stance on this case. I never claimed that this particularly was mentioned in court, I only saw maybe 2 hours of video of the proceedings, tops. But I knew I read this somewhere and did not imagine it, and was simply delighted to hear that confirmed by a counsel.

[vooke]

Just about every respondents' lawyer asked for this and none was forthcoming.

Strategy remains pure nonsense because there's every reason to include these documents and no reason to omit them. And Nyangasi did inject them in his affidavit,and only came to about 20.

Contigent filing? You probably know better, can you file stuff totally not referenced to in the petition,written submissions and affidavits and then introduce it as need arises?

I have not claimed to know more than Orengo but I clearly recall what he said. It is along this reasoning we wondered why hacking theory was conspicuously missing from the Petition and its submissions.

You probably heard of these documents outside the court just as server logs. But NASWA released the server logs and they was debunked. Nobody is saying the documents are not there,we just wonder how such incriminating evidence was kept off the public,kept off the submissions and petition,and conclude it is not there

Well, I have seen here more than once a challenge to produce just one photo, just ten, that's all you need etc. Same as Kindiki's claim that not even one person swore an affidavit, etc etc. This is why I kept asking if you guys doubt they exist after what Orengo said. For if they were there, even the 20 you mention, which if I'm understanding you WERE mentioned, then the challenge for just one or a few photos wouldnt make sense. After all, even these are not floating around on the web in photo form.

Apparently this whole time, you only doubted that there were many, not that they were there. Understood. But this is not what I read on this board severally.

As for me, I saw a few videos of the proceedings and read the scrutiny and ICT reports to decide my stance on this case. I never claimed that this particularly was mentioned in court, I only saw maybe 2 hours of video of the proceedings, tops. But I knew I read this somewhere and did not imagine it, and was simply delighted to hear that confirmed by a counsel.

Cool.

Before the petition NASWA claimed there was thousands of these forms mutilated and altered,and they had proof,and JUBILEE's challenge was show us some. They never did.

When Kindiki asked this question,Orengo responded that there was MANY in court but we find very few. MANY is relative but out of 40K forms,I'd think it's unreasonable to call tens of them many.

Given NASWA charges IEBC with altering results in favor of Uhunye,I'd have expected every one of these documents to count.

In my opinion, it is extreme stupidity cooking forms 34A that have been pinned to polling station and was shared to party agents. Like it's so easy to catch IEBC. So I really feel that even IF IEBC rigged Uhunye in,that was not one of the means. So I'm naturally skeptical,which is not helped by absence of these documents.


PS
I think NASWA independently collected some 5K forms 34A as per some affidavit I have read. Initially,I estimated they did about 15-20K