NASA Petition General

[vooke]

Bryan,
NASWA's request is a fishing expedition, even the slightly saner request on forms 34A. You have copies from IEBC, court copies as well, but instead of zeroing in on specifics, you are essentially claiming that IEBC forged EVERY form 34A copies, and to prove this you need to examine the ALL originals.

Why can't NASWA ask for a random sample? Any 4K forms 34A of their choice. Then compare the results on these with the court,or their copies?

Recall IEBC is not opposed to this exercise, but it needs court supervision,as well as Jubilee's as well.

If even a single form 34A is defective, then they may have a case. They can extrapolate the sample to the entire population and argue that primary results were recorded on defective documents and are unreliable.

Next would be a recount of these 4K ballot boxes,as well as examination of the relevant 4K KIEMS kits to confirm that's indeed there was real monkey biz.

All this starts with a single defective form 34A. But I doubt they have any single polling station they KNOW stuffing happened. So not knowing where to start they ask for everything!

[RV Pundit]

Precisely. They have nothing. SCOK judges are just being diplomatic because of 6.6M voters who trusted these NASA bozos will be hurt.

Bryan,
NASWA's request is a fishing expedition, even the slightly saner request on forms 34A. You have copies from IEBC, court copies as well, but instead of zeroing in on specifics, you are essentially claiming that IEBC forged EVERY form 34A copies, and to prove this you need to examine the ALL originals.

Why can't NASWA ask for a random sample? Any 4K forms 34A of their choice. Then compare the results on these with the court,or their copies?

Recall IEBC is not opposed to this exercise, but it needs court supervision,as well as Jubilee's as well.

If even a single form 34A is defective, then they may have a case. They can extrapolate the sample to the entire population and argue that primary results were recorded on defective documents and are unreliable.

Next would be a recount of these 4K ballot boxes,as well as examination of the relevant 4K KIEMS kits to confirm that's indeed there was real monkey biz.

All this starts with a single defective form 34A. But I doubt they have any single polling station they KNOW stuffing happened. So not knowing where to start they ask for everything!

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Bryan,
NASWA's request is a fishing expedition, even the slightly saner request on forms 34A. You have copies from IEBC, court copies as well, but instead of zeroing in on specifics, you are essentially claiming that IEBC forged EVERY form 34A copies, and to prove this you need to examine the ALL originals.

Why can't NASWA ask for a random sample? Any 4K forms 34A of their choice. Then compare the results on these with the court,or their copies?

Recall IEBC is not opposed to this exercise, but it needs court supervision,as well as Jubilee's as well.

If even a single form 34A is defective, then they may have a case. They can extrapolate the sample to the entire population and argue that primary results were recorded on defective documents and are unreliable.

Next would be a recount of these 4K ballot boxes,as well as examination of the relevant 4K KIEMS kits to confirm that's indeed there was real monkey biz.

All this starts with a single defective form 34A. But I doubt they have any single polling station they KNOW stuffing happened. So not knowing where to start they ask for everything!

On a totally different note.  Why do you think IEBC have electronic transmission?  Just your own understanding.

[bryan275]

So Uhuru and Ruto rented "prayer mobs" to go sing and dance outside the ICC court.....yet they cannot stomach NASA supporters praying outside their home court? 

Thieving bastards...

[bryan275]

Even that read-only acess to the database would still compromise the system. IEBC should never give Jubilee or NASA any access to their systems unless they were sure it won't compromise their system. That would leave a court appointed system auditor - from say KPMG or Deloitte or PWC - but there is simply no time before 1st to do that.

The least would be for IEBC to print and redact log files before handing them over to Nasa. Basically the logs of when results were received - statistics/key-in data - and perhaps the meta-data of the scanned forms (when they were received and from which devices). But that is not what NASA is accepting - they are asking to inspect every nook and cranny of IEBC systems in the hope they'll find some skeleton.

When you talk about algorithm - explain to me how that would work - how would altering the key-in results - alter the manual voter counting & filling of form 34s in polling stations?

Let says the algorithm works by ensuring there is 54% -44%in total numbers streaming in. So results from 10 polling station stream in - Algorithm ensures 54% -44% is maintained by adding or substracting figures to Raila & Uhuru column - then how do you retroactively edit the forms? Before the results are key-in -form 34A is filled. That would mean calling the PO/Agent to destroy the previous one - and fill a fake one. Now that should be easy to proof in court.

1) You just need agents to say they counted the votes in XYZ polling stations - Raila figures were XYZ - but later on it turned to WQT.
2) You just need agents to show their own copy of the original form 34 - each agent get one.
3) They can also show scanned images on their phones or whatassup of the original forms.
4) We can re-open the polling station's ballot boxes and re-count.
5) Your agents/observers/media would have videos of results being counted?

If you do that in 10 polling stations - like in 2013 (which CORD was unable) - then we have prima facia evidence to look deeper.

This is crazy thought - because the algorithm would affect nearly every polling station - and would be so apparent there won't be need of a petition.

Your guys are plain crazy. Totally gone bonkers.

As of now - there is nothing. Therefore in 2hrs time I expect this application to be dismissed. Then we move on to the real petition which has already been DEMOLISHED by IEBC and Jubilee - leading to this attempt to get a second bite & make more crazy allegations.

Whoever does it is not Jubilee's nor the court's concern.  If they settle on some river roadie "IT" consultants that's their prerogative.  Looking at Muite's action, his knowledge is even more limited that NASA's yet his protestations amount to childishness.  You know that all it takes is a read only access account to allow for an Algorithm to run remotely.  This thing will take 2/3 hours max as the IEBC server is small... compared to say Nakumatt's...or even KCB's.

Orengo has put on record this funny resistance..... that's the smoking gun...
 

Two things, IEBC granted Jubilee access to their servers enough for Jubilee to do damage, why won't they allow NASA?  Secondly open source systems are strengthened by their openness which allows anyone and everyone to audit the code and this improving their credibility.  Unless IEBC have invented some electoral software that is proprietary which they wish to keep private, they're acting like they have plenty to hide.

The algorithm I'm talking about is a penetrative audit tool, not the riggers' algorithm.  A good audit bit of kit would be able to find the rigger's "worm" in  a flash.

 

[vooke]

On a totally different note.  Why do you think IEBC have electronic transmission?  Just your own understanding.

Hastens or is meant to hasten declaration of results

[vooke]

So Uhuru and Ruto rented "prayer mobs" to go sing and dance outside the ICC court.....yet they cannot stomach NASA supporters praying outside their home court? 

Thieving bastards...

Police banned gatherings around that area back on Friday.

Yet NASWA in their typical provocation found occasion to go and hold prayers in the very place
.

Idiotic, and it reeks of desperation

[vooke]

Even that read-only acess to the database would still compromise the system. IEBC should never give Jubilee or NASA any access to their systems unless they were sure it won't compromise their system. That would leave a court appointed system auditor - from say KPMG or Deloitte or PWC - but there is simply no time before 1st to do that.

The least would be for IEBC to print and redact log files before handing them over to Nasa. Basically the logs of when results were received - statistics/key-in data - and perhaps the meta-data of the scanned forms (when they were received and from which devices). But that is not what NASA is accepting - they are asking to inspect every nook and cranny of IEBC systems in the hope they'll find some skeleton.

When you talk about algorithm - explain to me how that would work - how would altering the key-in results - alter the manual voter counting & filling of form 34s in polling stations?

Let says the algorithm works by ensuring there is 54% -44%in total numbers streaming in. So results from 10 polling station stream in - Algorithm ensures 54% -44% is maintained by adding or substracting figures to Raila & Uhuru column - then how do you retroactively edit the forms? Before the results are key-in -form 34A is filled. That would mean calling the PO/Agent to destroy the previous one - and fill a fake one. Now that should be easy to proof in court.

1) You just need agents to say they counted the votes in XYZ polling stations - Raila figures were XYZ - but later on it turned to WQT.
2) You just need agents to show their own copy of the original form 34 - each agent get one.
3) They can also show scanned images on their phones or whatassup of the original forms.
4) We can re-open the polling station's ballot boxes and re-count.
5) Your agents/observers/media would have videos of results being counted?

If you do that in 10 polling stations - like in 2013 (which CORD was unable) - then we have prima facia evidence to look deeper.

This is crazy thought - because the algorithm would affect nearly every polling station - and would be so apparent there won't be need of a petition.

Your guys are plain crazy. Totally gone bonkers.

As of now - there is nothing. Therefore in 2hrs time I expect this application to be dismissed. Then we move on to the real petition which has already been DEMOLISHED by IEBC and Jubilee - leading to this attempt to get a second bite & make more crazy allegations.

Whoever does it is not Jubilee's nor the court's concern.  If they settle on some river roadie "IT" consultants that's their prerogative.  Looking at Muite's action, his knowledge is even more limited that NASA's yet his protestations amount to childishness.  You know that all it takes is a read only access account to allow for an Algorithm to run remotely.  This thing will take 2/3 hours max as the IEBC server is small... compared to say Nakumatt's...or even KCB's.

Orengo has put on record this funny resistance..... that's the smoking gun...
 

Two things, IEBC granted Jubilee access to their servers enough for Jubilee to do damage, why won't they allow NASA?  Secondly open source systems are strengthened by their openness which allows anyone and everyone to audit the code and this improving their credibility.  Unless IEBC have invented some electoral software that is proprietary which they wish to keep private, they're acting like they have plenty to hide.

The algorithm I'm talking about is a penetrative audit tool, not the riggers' algorithm.  A good audit bit of kit would be able to find the rigger's "worm" in  a flash.

 

When was Jubilee given access to the servers?

[bryan275]

Question - Why have the hearings today been postponed?  IEBC are busy destroying the servers.

Thieving bastards...

[bryan275]

Even that read-only acess to the database would still compromise the system. IEBC should never give Jubilee or NASA any access to their systems unless they were sure it won't compromise their system. That would leave a court appointed system auditor - from say KPMG or Deloitte or PWC - but there is simply no time before 1st to do that.

The least would be for IEBC to print and redact log files before handing them over to Nasa. Basically the logs of when results were received - statistics/key-in data - and perhaps the meta-data of the scanned forms (when they were received and from which devices). But that is not what NASA is accepting - they are asking to inspect every nook and cranny of IEBC systems in the hope they'll find some skeleton.

When you talk about algorithm - explain to me how that would work - how would altering the key-in results - alter the manual voter counting & filling of form 34s in polling stations?

Let says the algorithm works by ensuring there is 54% -44%in total numbers streaming in. So results from 10 polling station stream in - Algorithm ensures 54% -44% is maintained by adding or substracting figures to Raila & Uhuru column - then how do you retroactively edit the forms? Before the results are key-in -form 34A is filled. That would mean calling the PO/Agent to destroy the previous one - and fill a fake one. Now that should be easy to proof in court.

1) You just need agents to say they counted the votes in XYZ polling stations - Raila figures were XYZ - but later on it turned to WQT.
2) You just need agents to show their own copy of the original form 34 - each agent get one.
3) They can also show scanned images on their phones or whatassup of the original forms.
4) We can re-open the polling station's ballot boxes and re-count.
5) Your agents/observers/media would have videos of results being counted?

If you do that in 10 polling stations - like in 2013 (which CORD was unable) - then we have prima facia evidence to look deeper.

This is crazy thought - because the algorithm would affect nearly every polling station - and would be so apparent there won't be need of a petition.

Your guys are plain crazy. Totally gone bonkers.

As of now - there is nothing. Therefore in 2hrs time I expect this application to be dismissed. Then we move on to the real petition which has already been DEMOLISHED by IEBC and Jubilee - leading to this attempt to get a second bite & make more crazy allegations.

Whoever does it is not Jubilee's nor the court's concern.  If they settle on some river roadie "IT" consultants that's their prerogative.  Looking at Muite's action, his knowledge is even more limited that NASA's yet his protestations amount to childishness.  You know that all it takes is a read only access account to allow for an Algorithm to run remotely.  This thing will take 2/3 hours max as the IEBC server is small... compared to say Nakumatt's...or even KCB's.

Orengo has put on record this funny resistance..... that's the smoking gun...
 

Two things, IEBC granted Jubilee access to their servers enough for Jubilee to do damage, why won't they allow NASA?  Secondly open source systems are strengthened by their openness which allows anyone and everyone to audit the code and this improving their credibility.  Unless IEBC have invented some electoral software that is proprietary which they wish to keep private, they're acting like they have plenty to hide.

The algorithm I'm talking about is a penetrative audit tool, not the riggers' algorithm.  A good audit bit of kit would be able to find the rigger's "worm" in  a flash.

 

When was Jubilee given access to the servers?

The day they (Jubilee) planted the algorithm that gave them an 11% "lead".  The access has been postponed to allow Jubilee to "move the body". 

Thieving bastards.....

[bryan275]

So Uhuru and Ruto rented "prayer mobs" to go sing and dance outside the ICC court.....yet they cannot stomach NASA supporters praying outside their home court? 

Thieving bastards...

Police banned gatherings around that area back on Friday.

Yet NASWA in their typical provocation found occasion to go and hold prayers in the very place
.

Idiotic, and it reeks of desperation

Police=Jubilee=Ruto=Uhuru

Like I said, they rented prayer mobs to go sing and dance outside the ICC court.  Shameless doublestandard...

Thieving bastards...

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

On a totally different note.  Why do you think IEBC have electronic transmission?  Just your own understanding.

Hastens or is meant to hasten declaration of results

That clarifies a lot.

The motivation for the inclusion of electronic transmission in Kenya's elections is one.  Prevention of fraud.  Speed is a nice byproduct, but not the primary motivation. 

That is why someone would want to know when, from where these scans were made, whether any scans were made at Bomas, and if they match with the documents IEBC presents.  It's actually meant to be useful for verification.  Right off the bat I know we don't have - at least publicly - the from where and when metadata.

[vooke]

That clarifies a lot.

The motivation for the inclusion of electronic transmission in Kenya's elections is one.  Prevention of fraud.  Speed is a nice byproduct, but not the primary motivation. 

That is why someone would want to know when, from where these scans were made, whether any scans were made at Bomas, and if they match with the documents IEBC presents.  It's actually meant to be useful for verification.  Right off the bat I know we don't have - at least publicly - the from where and when metadata.

This is chicken and egg thing; what comes first,fraud prevention or speed? Or what between these is causative?

Now, put yourself in the shoes of a Constituency Returning Officer. You are supposed to work start tallying and preparing form 34B on the strength of the scanned forms 34A whereas previously you would have to wait till the physical form get to you. Of course ultimately the physical form will get to you but tallying is not dependent on that.

The comfort of an aspirant is whether the form 34A used to compile 34B is exact same his agent signed on the ground and retained a copy or a scan/photo.

So the aspirant doesn't have agents? How would they know whether the scanned form,nailed somewhere publicly in a classroom door,scanned and sent to Constituency,county and Bomas on time,and whose text results match all using KIEMS kit,was not cooked?

Electronic transmission in and of itself does not prevent fraud.

[bryan275]

This guy PLO, is a contradiction in heels.  Chap spends the time inbetween elections preaching anti-corruption and other "saintly" things.  Then bang, a case such as this one comes along and there he is representing possibly the most corrupt enterprise Kenya has ever seen.

It's a pity.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Even that read-only acess to the database would still compromise the system. IEBC should never give Jubilee or NASA any access to their systems unless they were sure it won't compromise their system. That would leave a court appointed system auditor - from say KPMG or Deloitte or PWC - but there is simply no time before 1st to do that.

The least would be for IEBC to print and redact log files before handing them over to Nasa. Basically the logs of when results were received - statistics/key-in data - and perhaps the meta-data of the scanned forms (when they were received and from which devices). But that is not what NASA is accepting - they are asking to inspect every nook and cranny of IEBC systems in the hope they'll find some skeleton.

When you talk about algorithm - explain to me how that would work - how would altering the key-in results - alter the manual voter counting & filling of form 34s in polling stations?

Let says the algorithm works by ensuring there is 54% -44%in total numbers streaming in. So results from 10 polling station stream in - Algorithm ensures 54% -44% is maintained by adding or substracting figures to Raila & Uhuru column - then how do you retroactively edit the forms? Before the results are key-in -form 34A is filled. That would mean calling the PO/Agent to destroy the previous one - and fill a fake one. Now that should be easy to proof in court.

1) You just need agents to say they counted the votes in XYZ polling stations - Raila figures were XYZ - but later on it turned to WQT.
2) You just need agents to show their own copy of the original form 34 - each agent get one.
3) They can also show scanned images on their phones or whatassup of the original forms.
4) We can re-open the polling station's ballot boxes and re-count.
5) Your agents/observers/media would have videos of results being counted?

If you do that in 10 polling stations - like in 2013 (which CORD was unable) - then we have prima facia evidence to look deeper.

This is crazy thought - because the algorithm would affect nearly every polling station - and would be so apparent there won't be need of a petition.

Your guys are plain crazy. Totally gone bonkers.

As of now - there is nothing. Therefore in 2hrs time I expect this application to be dismissed. Then we move on to the real petition which has already been DEMOLISHED by IEBC and Jubilee - leading to this attempt to get a second bite & make more crazy allegations.

Whoever does it is not Jubilee's nor the court's concern.  If they settle on some river roadie "IT" consultants that's their prerogative.  Looking at Muite's action, his knowledge is even more limited that NASA's yet his protestations amount to childishness.  You know that all it takes is a read only access account to allow for an Algorithm to run remotely.  This thing will take 2/3 hours max as the IEBC server is small... compared to say Nakumatt's...or even KCB's.

Orengo has put on record this funny resistance..... that's the smoking gun...
 

They can create a user account that can only access certain information.  More specifically they can restrict it to a certain set of tables inside the database that have the relevant application information without compromising anything else.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

This guy PLO, is a contraction on heels.  Chap spends the time inbetween elections preaching anti-corruption and other "saintly" things.  Then bang, a case such as this one comes along and there he is representing possibly the most corrupt enterprise Kenya has ever seen.

It's a pity.

I think he gets paid for those speeches.  It's a performance act.  To be fair he is representing Chebukati himself not the IEBC, from how I understood it.

[RV Pundit]

So you can fake the tables structures next time.If iebc had revealed every thing NASA wouldn't not passed  fake sql server start up later logs.i don't get the why you cannot query the output. The root cause is irrelevant.What is relevant is the output n outcomes.You can demonstrate that we fed xyz to this opaque iebc systems and it gave us wyz instead qrt.That is arguments everyone understands.Otherwise  what would audit or algorithm mean to a judge.Hacking cases are so technical you need 2yrs plus to prosecute.Its like that goldenburg or Wall Street derivatives.Plain time wasting diversion n political propaganda.You could see Maraga wondering if NASA wanted the servers brought to court.....if rigging happen..it should be manifest to any right thinking man.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

So you can fake the tables structures next time.If iebc had revealed every thing NASA wouldn't not passed  fake sql server start up later logs.i don't get the why you cannot query the output. The root cause is irrelevant.What is relevant is the output n outcomes.You can demonstrate that we fed xyz to this opaque iebc systems and it gave us wyz instead qrt.That is arguments everyone understands.Otherwise  what would audit or algorithm mean to a judge.Hacking cases are so technical you need 2yrs plus to prosecute.Its like that goldenburg or Wall Street derivatives.Plain time wasting diversion n political propaganda.You could see Maraga wondering if NASA wanted the servers brought to court.....if rigging happen..it should be manifest to any right thinking man.

I agree the issue of going into the system should not even be something anyone has to raise.  It's insane if a system has to be audited each time there is an election.  I would be satisfied with information that can show me the life cycle of the transmission.  The auditing part, that should be left for some other time for someone else and if something shady is found people sent to jail.  As it is, all we have is the two portals in a format that is nice looking but not very useful for verification. 

If you ignore the politics for a second, it should be possible to know where the form was scanned from, when it was scanned, when it reached the server, if it matches the forms IEBC is presenting, and preferably if the scans were changed or replaced after transmission.  If it mostly confirms or contradicts these things, it's done its job

All this should be possible without the user having to request permission to get into the system.  Unfortunately it's not.  So the request is also an indictment of the system, not necessarily as fraudulent but as useless.

[RV Pundit]

It boils down to trust.If you don't trust iebc you deploy agents n observers everywhere.Nasa did that.Nearly all forms have Raila agents. You also establish you own parallel tallying center.I have seen Jubilee had their own simple application where their agents would transcripe the results and submit.NASA are bonkers.Audit can be done via court order but outside the petition.Judges have no time or expertise to supervise this..but they surely can understand when figures differ..when forms are faked.Only fool would call our manual paper based electronic.US and some countries have electronic vote when you press some button to cast you vote but ours the it is just add on or complementary system.

[bryan275]

The very IT illiterate Court has rejected the Society of IT's application to be their friend... the mortician however...