Author Topic: NASA Petition General  (Read 85067 times)

Offline Kadame7

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2017, 01:03:51 PM »
I think IEBC should release the logs - it's gonna be huge - but who cares?

Ultimately this is a petition - not carte blanche for NASA to ask anything -

They've made allegation - they need to proof it - not ask IEBC for proof.

But they are not asking IEBC for proof. They want public information. They will do their own proving. The fact of IEBC being a party to a petition does not convert this information into private property.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2017, 01:12:19 PM »
Petition is not a forum to ask for public information. There is the public information act. IEBC have to be careful because NASA already tried to mimic IEBC logs by creating fake database on SQL Server and passing it as IEBC. If they release this info - what stop NASA from editing them next time - and inserting ABC. If Audit need to be done..it has to be contracted to international reputable company -- not every tom, dick and harry should see the innards of IEBC systems.

Fact is NASA lostany form of respectability when they released fake SQL serve logs. They now want IEBC to help them build their case :)

In any case these are internal IEBC matters. IEBC remain Independent Constitution body. It's like Supreme court. You cannot ask for rough notes they made before the rulling.

Respect IEBC as constitutional institution. That is what Supreme Court will do. If you don't trust IEBC - pole - there is a limit to how much you'll be allowed to look.

In any case first make a "case" from the output. Demonstrate with 1 or 2 evidence that polling station X or Z results do not tally with what you have from your agents. That shouldn't be hard in any election your claims was systematically rigged. Start with Nyamira or Gusii. You had agents. They were present during the entire period. Show us your tallying center results -- and this time round - don't confuse Nyamira & Nairobi :D -  Show us your own FORM 34As - each party agent were allowed to take a picture - after tallying and those pinned in classrooms.

Don't waste time going through IEBC forms 34A online looking at small mistake here and there. Section 38 of the Election Act is catch-all for all those minor mistakes otherwise we will never conduct election because human will make errors.

This election was CLEAN. Free, Fair and Credible.

But they are not asking IEBC for proof. They want public information. They will do their own proving. The fact of IEBC being a party to a petition does not convert this information into private property.

Offline vooke

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2017, 01:16:36 PM »
An examination of the logs can take less than 15 minutes.

Wacha uthamaki.

NASWA is praying for many things including an audit. How many of these can possibly be concluded in 7 days?

NASWA is simply making offers that can't be accepted. Non-acceptance is a sign of guilt
They are not asking for that but for ALL electronic equipments used in the election. Bro, that's over 40K KIEMS kits for starters.

If it is really important I have no doubt the request will be granted.
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Kadame7

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2017, 01:40:23 PM »
They are asking for hardware? Hardware is tricky but the logs should be 100% availed. It's a mistake to lump them together as last time the court used this excuse to deny them everything including the electronic info in one fell swoop. A fair court would have done it point by point, denying the unreasonable and ordering the reasonable (they said it would take minutes to download). So doing the same thing this time with that precedent in mind is very careless in my view. They should ask for only easily available things, like the logs. When you seek prayers you should make it easy for the court to grant them, if they are not achievable the court will not grant them and as I said, last time the SCOK took advantage of the unreasonable requests in that list to deny all the prayers in a lump some. It was wrong but there is no use to repeat that this time too.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2017, 01:56:34 PM »
They are asking for hardware? Hardware is tricky but the logs should be 100% availed. It's a mistake to lump them together as last time the court used this excuse to deny them everything including the electronic info in one fell swoop. A fair court would have done it point by point, denying the unreasonable and ordering the reasonable (they said it would take minutes to download). So doing the same thing this time with that precedent in mind is very careless in my view. They should ask for only easily available things, like the logs. When you seek prayers you should make it easy for the court to grant them, if they are not achievable the court will not grant them and as I said, last time the SCOK took advantage of the unreasonable requests in that list to deny all the prayers in a lump some. It was wrong but there is no use to repeat that this time too.

Kadame,

It's not tricky at all.  If Amazon wants to provide access to their most detailed info, they will create or provide a user account with relevant permissions.  A key press, maybe a mouse click.  There might be other reasons they can bring up to oppose it.  When difficulty is used as an excuse, alarm bells should go off.  It is a fake excuse.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Kadame7

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2017, 02:06:56 PM »
They are asking for hardware? Hardware is tricky but the logs should be 100% availed. It's a mistake to lump them together as last time the court used this excuse to deny them everything including the electronic info in one fell swoop. A fair court would have done it point by point, denying the unreasonable and ordering the reasonable (they said it would take minutes to download). So doing the same thing this time with that precedent in mind is very careless in my view. They should ask for only easily available things, like the logs. When you seek prayers you should make it easy for the court to grant them, if they are not achievable the court will not grant them and as I said, last time the SCOK took advantage of the unreasonable requests in that list to deny all the prayers in a lump some. It was wrong but there is no use to repeat that this time too.

Kadame,

It's not tricky at all.  If Amazon wants to provide access to their most detailed info, they will create or provide a user account with relevant permissions.  A key press, maybe a mouse click.  There might be other reasons they can bring up to oppose it.  When difficulty is used as an excuse, alarm bells should go off.  It is a fake excuse.
I mean asking for the hardware, I understand that to mean that things like computers should be physically brought to a center from all over the country etc. Last time the SCOK used that as an excuse to deny everything in the prayers including the easily accessible data like you point out. My point is that NASA should've left out any prayers asking for these things, perhaps I misunderstood vooke's post. They should totally and absolutely be allowed to access all the IT stuff.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2017, 02:11:47 PM »
They don't need to relocate the hardware though.  The court can be taken to the hardware.  I agree there appears to be no useful purpose that would be served.  Maybe we get to know the make and models of the servers.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Kadame7

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2017, 02:23:22 PM »
Petition is not a forum to ask for public information. There is the public information act. IEBC have to be careful because NASA already tried to mimic IEBC logs by creating fake database on SQL Server and passing it as IEBC. If they release this info - what stop NASA from editing them next time - and inserting ABC. If Audit need to be done..it has to be contracted to international reputable company -- not every tom, dick and harry should see the innards of IEBC systems.

Fact is NASA lostany form of respectability when they released fake SQL serve logs. They now want IEBC to help them build their case :)

In any case these are internal IEBC matters. IEBC remain Independent Constitution body. It's like Supreme court. You cannot ask for rough notes they made before the rulling.

Respect IEBC as constitutional institution. That is what Supreme Court will do. If you don't trust IEBC - pole - there is a limit to how much you'll be allowed to look.

In any case first make a "case" from the output. Demonstrate with 1 or 2 evidence that polling station X or Z results do not tally with what you have from your agents. That shouldn't be hard in any election your claims was systematically rigged. Start with Nyamira or Gusii. You had agents. They were present during the entire period. Show us your tallying center results -- and this time round - don't confuse Nyamira & Nairobi :D -  Show us your own FORM 34As - each party agent were allowed to take a picture - after tallying and those pinned in classrooms.

Don't waste time going through IEBC forms 34A online looking at small mistake here and there. Section 38 of the Election Act is catch-all for all those minor mistakes otherwise we will never conduct election because human will make errors.

This election was CLEAN. Free, Fair and Credible.

But they are not asking IEBC for proof. They want public information. They will do their own proving. The fact of IEBC being a party to a petition does not convert this information into private property.
I honestly keep wondering why you conflate the IEBC with courts. The IEBC is literally allowed no discretion in determining results. They are not there to apply their minds to facts and law and reason out a conclusion, This is up to the voter. Judgments/rulings/court orders are NOT the same things as the results of an election. What IEBC do and what courts do are so different I don't get why you keep making this argument about "trusting" IEBC and why you think you can draw parallels or analogies between these radically different types of institutions. They are not on the same planet, my friend, which is why courts are one of the three equal branches and IEBC are not. The only analogies to the judiciary in a limited sense are parliamentary and the executive. These are within their own spheres allowed substantial discretion to make decisions for all of us that are inherently political and affect us greatly.

Offline Kadame7

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2017, 02:28:15 PM »
They don't need to relocate the hardware though.  The court can be taken to the hardware.  I agree there appears to be no useful purpose that would be served.  Maybe we get to know the make and models of the servers.
So they are asking only for the servers and not things located all over the country?

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2017, 02:52:27 PM »
They don't need to relocate the hardware though.  The court can be taken to the hardware.  I agree there appears to be no useful purpose that would be served.  Maybe we get to know the make and models of the servers.
So they are asking only for the servers and not things located all over the country?

I haven't seen that particular bit to be fair.  But, yeah, a server in a simple case like IEBC would be in one data center. 

Why would anyone want it?  Even if we take the algorithm idea seriously, it's not like you can identify and get the image of the software that was loaded and running on August 8th. 
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman


Offline RV Pundit

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Offline vooke

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2017, 04:04:53 PM »
Here's the petition
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2rMMQJiqMB8QTNpSjhDaFF0Yms


Look at this

Quote
E. RELIEFS SOUGHT IN THE PETITION
a. Immediately upon the filing of the Petition, the 1st Respondent do avail all the material including electronic documents, devices and equipment for the Presidential Election within 48 hours;

b. Immediately upon the filing of the Petition, the 1st Respondent do produce, avail and allow access for purposes of inspection of all the logs of any and all servers hosted by and/or on behalf of the 1st Respondent in respect of the Presidential Election within 48 hours;
[/b]


NASWA wants EVERYTHING,and may get nothing.

Look at it closely. Demanding for all electronic equipments on one hand and then demanding logs contained in some of those equipments. . IEBC will argue that the request is unreasonable, but NASWA is entitled to them if it helps. Maybe they should first demonstrate how this is relevant to their case and then get an order right away
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline vooke

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2017, 04:32:03 PM »
Omorlo,
I heard that there are changes since 2013 on presidential petition to the effect that the court will more heavily rely on written submissions and less on oral arguments before it. Is this so?



http://kenyalaw.org/kenyalawblog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/RevisedSupremeCourtPresidentialElectionPetitionRules2017.pdf
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Omollo

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2017, 08:45:17 PM »
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Omollo

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2017, 08:47:38 PM »
It was the same in 2013 hence the crippling of the case when the affidavits were tossed out on a technicality. the SCOK does not take in live testimony / witnesses or allow cross examinations

Omorlo,
I heard that there are changes since 2013 on presidential petition to the effect that the court will more heavily rely on written submissions and less on oral arguments before it. Is this so?



http://kenyalaw.org/kenyalawblog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/RevisedSupremeCourtPresidentialElectionPetitionRules2017.pdf
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Omollo

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2017, 08:48:23 PM »
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Omollo

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2017, 08:49:29 PM »
Invalid Tweet ID
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Omollo

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2017, 08:50:29 PM »
Invalid Tweet ID
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Omollo

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Re: NASA Petition General
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2017, 08:52:12 PM »
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread