Author Topic: For the nation to live, the tribe must die  (Read 2312 times)

Offline Globalcitizen12

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For the nation to live, the tribe must die
« on: June 11, 2017, 06:02:34 PM »
One of the biggest errors of most African founding fathers is failure to kill the tribe. Due to the limited knowledge and the speed that Africa gained her Independence from a fleeing and unraveling British and other European empires there was no enough debate or planning on what to do with the tribal identify in the new state. The most corrupt, backward, and failed states have one thing in common they have strong tribal identify or clanism. These states have been unable to breakaway from 18th century goverance structure..

In misguided efforts to retain the tribe as center piece of African identify most dictators promoted unnecessary Afrocentric identity and culture in hope that they could decolonize the minds.

Knowing what we know today African would have leaped forward by just adapting one national identity and embraced Western culture as it had already taken root.
Even after decades of Chinese trying to create their own identity they have embraced Western culture as a way out of poverty.  The Chinese elite is now puppy loving latte drinking, hip hop loving Yankee

Offline bimnji

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Re: For the nation to live, the tribe must die
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2017, 06:41:34 PM »
If tribe was such an issue, Somalia and TZ would be way ahead of the curve but apparently not the case. I dont see the need of killing tribes. China has a lot of linguistic different people but somehow they are able to get things together

Offline Globalcitizen12

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Re: For the nation to live, the tribe must die
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2017, 07:05:04 PM »
I included clanism. Tanzania like other states responded to colonization by adopting an economic system that they though would work better than capitalism. Nyerere was wrong the economy took a beating he resigned. Nyerere suceeded in creating a national identity.  Mkapa and others allowed corruption and that has held back Tanzania back. Mangufuli is trying to undo this but he has work cut out for him. Clanism in Somali has really damaged national cohesion. Once the dictator left power Somalis elites riverted to clanism

Offline bimnji

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Re: For the nation to live, the tribe must die
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2017, 08:45:26 PM »
Enforcing the law of the land is paramount for any country to get anywhere. Thats what we dont do in Africa and other third world countries period

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: For the nation to live, the tribe must die
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2017, 09:25:30 PM »
If tribe was such an issue, Somalia and TZ would be way ahead of the curve but apparently not the case. I

A implies B

is not equivalent to

not-A implies not-B


The fact (or claim) that tribalism (or tribes) is the biggest problem in Africa does not logically lead to the conclusion that without tribalism (or tribe) all would be well.   There may be other factors, and in the case of Tanzania one could well note some questionable economic policies.

In any case, your two examples, regardless of the actual reasons for their "failure", do not disprove the general claim on the role of tribe in Africa: they appear to be exceptions---"statistical outliers" to be "excluded"---with a preponderance of the "evidence" actually supporting the claim.   

Quote
Enforcing the law of the land is paramount for any country to get anywhere. Thats what we dont do in Africa

The failure to enforce the law generally tends to be in favour of those in power, and in Africa tribe tends to play a great role in the acquisition of  or access to power.   As an example, right now, as Kenyans discuss who will be in power during the after the next elections, all the calculations are on the basis of tribe.
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: For the nation to live, the tribe must die
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2017, 10:05:32 AM »
You're absolutely right but we cannot do that. Europe over centuries killed tribes  & merged them into powerful nations using powerful empires- we cannot do that now. Rwanda is attempting it by banning tribes - if you say hutu or tutsi you go to jail - this may in a generation or two work for Rwanda - where everyone will be a Rwandese - not Hutu or Tutsi. If this works - it may be worth exploring elsewhere -- where we ban tribes and any tribal talk - and force everyone to speak in Kiswahili or English.

But for most democratic Africa states it better to embrace tribes & clans - through federalism & devolution.That mean we retain the current nations but we have more and more devolution & federalism so each tribe or clan can feel in control of their destiny.