Author Topic: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results  (Read 7038 times)

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2017, 07:17:25 PM »
I don't recall any campaign to fix the electronic system whose obvious flaws were readily apparent in 2013, if not earlier.

If you recall the court case, the problems were (a) some sort of multiple registers, and (b) what was in the registers.  So, I would have immediately gone to work on:

(1) Agreeing on a single register.
(2) Cleaning up that register.
(3) Putting in place mechanisms to ensure that the register would stay clean with new registrations.

As it is, on the basis of Omollo's evidence, the "hard work" by CORD does not even start until a year later, and even then it does not deal with any of the above:

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4. CORD met the IEBC and filed specific demands. This was to rule out any possibility of arguing that CORD had not tried to meet the IEBC. No results

Here is CORD's list of demands: http://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Cord-leaders-to-meet-IEBC-officials/1064-2780200-ywa8psz/index.html

"register" appears only in the down-the-list complaint that IEBC registered more people in Jubilee areas, which could have happened simply because more Jubilee supporters showed up to be registered.   

Omollo could well say that (1)-(3) required a new IEBC.  I don't see why.   At any rate, what is being noted here is that CORD did not even try.

When I say CORD has not learned any lessons from 2013, one that I have in mind is getting people to register.    How many new people has CORD added to the register in the period 2013-2016?    How does that number compare to the  size of its support base?    What is CORD doing differently now?  (Raila standing in front of huge crowds and urging people to register is not enough and will not replace the long, hard slog that is required at the grassroots level.)  I repeat: Unless there are dramatic changes, and soon, bucketfuls of tears will be shed at the end of the registration period.    (Before that, expect wails over IDs, which are required for registration .... but have got how much attention?)

One more time: The endless howling about 2013 will not help CORD.     It should absorb the lessons from that year and then move on, quickly, to focus on 2017.
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
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Offline Omollo

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Re: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2017, 01:53:59 PM »
I guess the Opposition will be blamed for everything.

I recall the triumphalism that followed Uhuru's electoral theft. The intimidation of the opposition. The fleeing of rats from a sinking ship. Tumbocrats rose to fame. It is then that Uhuru purchased his first batch of opposition MPs and senators.

We lost governors too. Mutua crossed the divide (if he ever was one of us God only knows). They started impeachment proceedings against those governors the deemed not too malleable.

They started with a political lobotomy: Mutula Kilonzo murdered by a Jubilee prostitute (who was later rewarded with a plum parastatal job). They would later serve Kajwang a glass of water in Kiambu the following year.

Even before that there were multiple attempts on Wetangula's life with the most prominent taking place in January 2014. Others on the Naivasha road (same spot where Kajwang had escaped when passerby rescued him before the killers came to knock him off) and near Eldoret are well known facts within CORD.

CORD overcame all this. It stopped the hemorrhaging of our membership and made CORD attractive again.

Did we suffer? Yes. We lost MPs to Eurobond. But reclaimed the agenda.  Some of the MPs became irrelevant.
 
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Omollo

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Re: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2017, 09:02:32 PM »
Some Conspiracy Theorist Without Balls to come here and interrogate me about my posts is busy taking them out of this context in a typical Truther fashion and using them to prove or justify his fables. So I want to remove the rag from his feet by re-doing the article he keeps citing. Needles to say he will respond to that not from here but outside with the usual ever changing goalposts of a dyed in the wool Truther.

I wrote:
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I guess the Opposition will be blamed for everything.

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I recall the triumphalism that followed Uhuru's electoral theft.

Nothing represents the triumphalism of Jubilee like this report quoting Uhuru Kenyatta's spokesman:
Quote
the moribund opposition.

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The intimidation of the opposition.

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There was also a fight over the right to retain his personal security, much of which was withdrawn, and at some point the former head of the Public Service Francis Kimemia issued instructions that Mr Odinga should be subjected to petty personal indignities if he should try to use the presidential lounge at national airports. 

George Kegoro summed this up best;
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There is a sense in which the Cord leadership has been struggling for political significance ever since the last elections, amid a determined put-down by Jubilee. Because of their positions as former Prime Minister and Vice-President, respectively, Mr Odinga and Mr Kalonzo Musyoka have, in particular, had an unusually difficult task of transitioning from the high offices they held in the former government and trying to create new roles for themselves in an unchartered political order.
Link:
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The fleeing of rats from a sinking ship. Tumbocrats rose to fame.

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Mr Shahbal said he defected from Wiper because the Cord coalition failed to fulfill promises to coast people.
Mr Kajembe who was ODM deputy national chairman and Mombasa County chairman said he defected from the opposition party two weeks ago.
Boost for Jubilee as Coast leaders leave Cord

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Mung'aro Goes Eating
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It is then that Uhuru purchased his first batch of opposition MPs and senators.
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Others who had been working with Uhuru while pretending to be in CORD eventually gave up the charade and moved in to Jubilee included:
Senator John Munyes
Chris Obure
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We lost governors too. Mutua crossed the divide (if he ever was one of us God only knows).
The list is long. So those will suffice in proving the point I made. I am available to add more names of MPs who not only defected but did so announcing that they were practically following the money and that the opposition had nothing to offer. Some of them could immediately display new found wealth and opulence hitherto foreign to them.

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They started impeachment proceedings against those governors the deemed not too malleable.
Kivutha Kibwana Impeached.

Quote
They started with a political lobotomy: Mutula Kilonzo murdered by a Jubilee prostitute (who was later rewarded with a plum parastatal job).

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President Uhuru Kenyatta has made sweeping changes in parastatals, bringing in popular media personalities to give fresh impetus to the state corporations.

Radio queen radio personality Caroline Mutoko has been appointed to serve on the board of the Kenya Institute of Mass Communication.

Ms Mutoko is currently the ?program controller at Kiss 100 and also the group marketing manager at Radio Africa Group Limited.
The suspect has been publicly named on talk shows, radio stations etc and has been challenged to sue. She has not. Legally at the elapse of the grace period whence one should sue, such allegations are considered truthful.
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They would later serve Kajwang a glass of water in Kiambu the following year.
It is a matter of public record that Kajwang did not eat anything in Kiambu when he went to inspect the bypass construction. He only got a bottle / glass of water.
Quote
Even before that there were multiple attempts on Wetangula's life with the most prominent taking place in January 2014. Others on the Naivasha road (same spot where Kajwang had escaped when passerby rescued him before the killers came to knock him off) and near Eldoret are well known facts within CORD.
Moses Wetang'ula's driver insists car was shot at
Moses Wetangula escapes unhurt after his car is shot at in Nairobi
Quote
CORD overcame all this. It stopped the hemorrhaging of our membership and made CORD attractive again.

Did we suffer? Yes.
Quote
We lost MPs to Eurobond.
But reclaimed the agenda. 

Quote
Some of the MPs became irrelevant.
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Kichwa

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Re: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2017, 04:49:35 PM »
Omollo, Indeed it is very easy to forget that CORD was left for dead after the 2013 stolen elections and the fact that it survived to even mount a credible challenge to jubilee today is a miracle.  Ouruto controlled everything and were talking 10 years for Ouru and 10 for Ruto. Hassan of IEBC was on top of the world-he was so arrogant that he openly treated CORD leaders with disdain.  CORD spent so much time just trying to keep its members intact and it is only through credible threats to go to the streets that this government started paying some attention. The reality is that  Without devolution and Raila's tenacity, CORD would not have survived.

While there is definitely a lot to criticize CORD for, some criticism being leveled against them is not fair, especially that they did little to reform IEBC three years ago.  Let us give them some credit for surviving the onslaught that Ouruto waged against them with massive stolen money, propaganda and the tribal vitriol.  Ouruto's plan was to destroy multi-party democracy and return Kenya to a defacto one party state.  Raila and the opposition governors saved CORD and our democracy, and at least we may now have a competitive election this year. 

Those who are asking why CORD did not focus on cleaning the voter registration and register more voters three years ago, are forgetting that CORD was trying to survive for three years and did not have any power to force Jubilee or IEBC to do anything. You need the government to issue ID's and IEBC to register voters-both were so hostile to CORD that Hassan would refuse to meet with CORD leaders and brag about.  The parliament was equally hostile and obstructive. How was CORD supposed to pull all this off. CORD had to resort to street action to be listened to.  Don't you think CORD would have wanted to do all those things they are being blamed for not doing if not for the roadblocks placed on their path at all times.

Won't it be nice for Africa one day to have a government in power which does  the right thing so that the opposition does not have to be blamed for not forcing the government to do the right thing. Maybe the opposition critics see it as  "tough love" for the opposition  to blame all the time they fail to overcome the massive road blocks placed before them by a government that controls the parliament, the media, has tones of stolen money to corrupt the judiciary, hire thugs to intimidate, maim and assassinate the opposition leaders.

The Luos have a saying that when someone stronger than you crashes your mother's smoking pipe under his feet, you beret your mother for being careless.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2017, 05:25:31 PM »
Omollo and Kichwa-mmeza mate:

I don't know why you keep using words such as "blame" and "blaming", which are unhelpfully emotional words.     I do not blame CORD for anything.    All I have done is note that CORD has, for years, not been doing what it should have been doing for a party bent on getting into power.     That's it.   

You may disagree with my views, but it serves no purpose to offer me explanations, or to list all the great things that CORD has supposedly been doing, or to enlighten me on the wise sayings of Luos.  None of that will change my opinion.  But what I think doesn't really matter anyway; so you guys should not get so worked up about it.   If I am wrong, then I will be proved wrong when the votes are finally counted in August.   That's it.

MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2017, 10:46:28 PM »
I can't see it, but I imagine that sufficient effort will soon reveal Jubilee's dirty hand:

ODM/CORD Bigwigs Inspire Voters!

http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/02/08/ranguma-accused-of-sabotaging-voter-mobilisation-in-kisumu_c1503067

And this is with how any days left?

Note: No blame here.  Just a link to a news article and a couple of one-sentence comments.   
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.

Offline Kichwa

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Re: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2017, 06:43:03 PM »

And all we are asking is that you appreciate what CORD is up against.  Registering people to vote in CORD's strongholds is not as easy as you tend to portray when they are going against an openly hostile IEBC and a government whose very survival depends on  maintaining its control over the voter registration process.  A government that  is not only corrupt but also controls the two branches of government and has considerable influence on the third branch through unlimited resources.  Ignoring all this and trying to give the impression that CORD is simply not doing enough to register people to vote is unfair criticism.  At least acknowledge what CORD is up against in this registration maneno.

Omollo and Kichwa-mmeza mate:

I don't know why you keep using words such as "blame" and "blaming", which are unhelpfully emotional words.     I do not blame CORD for anything.    All I have done is note that CORD has, for years, not been doing what it should have been doing for a party bent on getting into power.     That's it.   

You may disagree with my views, but it serves no purpose to offer me explanations, or to list all the great things that CORD has supposedly been doing, or to enlighten me on the wise sayings of Luos.  None of that will change my opinion.  But what I think doesn't really matter anyway; so you guys should not get so worked up about it.   If I am wrong, then I will be proved wrong when the votes are finally counted in August.   That's it.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2017, 06:56:13 PM »
And all we are asking is that you appreciate what CORD is up against.  Registering people to vote in CORD's strongholds is not as easy as you tend to portray when they are going against an openly hostile IEBC and a government whose very survival depends on  maintaining its control over the voter registration process.  A government that  is not only corrupt but also controls the two branches of government and has considerable influence on the third branch through unlimited resources.  Ignoring all this and trying to give the impression that CORD is simply not doing enough to register people to vote is unfair criticism.  At least acknowledge what CORD is up against in this registration maneno.

http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/02/08/ranguma-accused-of-sabotaging-voter-mobilisation-in-kisumu_c1503067

But but but ... Jubilee is the one sabotaging them and Ranguma is jubilant.  No?
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

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Offline Kichwa

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Re: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2017, 07:01:10 PM »
This article clearly fits your long standing narrative about voter registration in Nyanza but this article is more about the local political rivalry between Nyongo camp and Raguma camp than voter registration.  Voter Registration is huge right now in Kenya and in Nyanza its taken a new political dimension.  Not registering to vote or interfering with voter registration is equivalent to being anti-Raila or being a jubilee mole.  Politicians have figured this out and therefore the most effective weapon against an opponent is to label them anti-voter registration of some sort.  This is Nyongo going nuclear on Raguma and has nothing to do with voter registration. Women have been told to deny men sex if they do not register to vote, folks are being asked to show their voter registration cards before being provided basic needs or attending social events or groups  and even folks in the diaspora are being asked to stop sending money to relatives who have not registered to vote.  I am starting to get concerned about individual rights and while I support citizen participation in choosing their leaders I do not believe in coercion and that luos should feel they are to blame if Ouru is re-elected.

I can't see it, but I imagine that sufficient effort will soon reveal Jubilee's dirty hand:

ODM/CORD Bigwigs Inspire Voters!

http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/02/08/ranguma-accused-of-sabotaging-voter-mobilisation-in-kisumu_c1503067

And this is with how any days left?

Note: No blame here.  Just a link to a news article and a couple of one-sentence comments.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2017, 07:27:38 PM »
And all we are asking is that you appreciate what CORD is up against.  Registering people to vote in CORD's strongholds is not as easy as you tend to portray when they are going against an openly hostile IEBC and a government whose very survival depends on  maintaining its control over the voter registration process.  A government that  is not only corrupt but also controls the two branches of government and has considerable influence on the third branch through unlimited resources.  Ignoring all this and trying to give the impression that CORD is simply not doing enough to register people to vote is unfair criticism.  At least acknowledge what CORD is up against in this registration maneno.

Quote
This article clearly fits your long standing narrative about voter registration in Nyanza but this article is more about the local political rivalry between Nyongo camp and Raguma camp than voter registration. Voter Registration is huge right now in Kenya and in Nyanza its taken a new political dimension. Not registering to vote or interfering with voter registration is equivalent to being anti-Raila or being a jubilee mole.  Politicians have figured this out and therefore the most effective weapon against an opponent is to label them anti-voter registration of some sort.  This is Nyongo going nuclear on Raguma and has nothing to do with voter registration. Women have been told to deny men sex if they do not register to vote, folks are not being asked to show their voter registration cards before being provided basic needs and even folks in the diaspora are being asked to stop sending money to relatives who have not registered to vote. 

You are still trying to sell me stuff I've already and repeatedly refused to buy.  My conclusions on what CORD should have been doing and could have been doing all these years were not formed yesterday; nor were my opinions formed without knowledge of the IEBC, the government, etc.     

If as you say, voter registration is "huge" and has taken a "new dimension" in Nyanza, that is excellent.     I don't quite see it that way.  To you the "local political rivalry" among senior people in ODM/CORD does not say much about voter registration; to me it says that these people don't even know have Clue #1 of should be focusing on right now.  I don't see there an environment in which people are inclined to rush out and register as voters.   The formation of half-assed committees at the last minute also indicates a lack of careful and detailed planning (with preparation for contingencies).

But we need not argue endlessly about any of that; we will have the numbers soon enough.   

By the way, I do not have a "long standing narrative about voter registration in Nyanza".   Where did you get that one? I have asked (and asked and asked) questions about CORD and the registration of its supporters, but my questions have never been about any specific region.     Now, for once, let me make a specific comment on Nyanza: Voting in Kenya is largely tribal, so what happens in Nyanza indicates an upper bound on what Raila may reasonably expect elsewhere; that is why it should matter to you folks.
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.

Offline Kichwa

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Re: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2017, 10:49:38 PM »
No, we do not need to argue endlessly about this. 

My position is that the opposition should not focus on Nyanza voters to win this election.  They should take the reliable votes that Nyanza offers  and look for votes all over the country including Jubilee strongholds to add to what Nyanza has.  Nyanza has voted overwhelmingly for the opposition over the years  and they should be thanked and not be milked until blood oozes out.

This country belongs to all of us and if the rest of the country want to vote for Jubilee then Nyanza should not be made to feel guilty for not getting rid of these thugs.

I sincerely believe that all that can be done to legally register voters in Nyanza has been done. If that is not enough then let the opposition now figure out where to get the rest of the votes instead of Nyanza this, Nyanza that all the time. If there are people left who do not want to register and vote in Nyanza or anywhere, they should  now be left alone.   



And all we are asking is that you appreciate what CORD is up against.  Registering people to vote in CORD's strongholds is not as easy as you tend to portray when they are going against an openly hostile IEBC and a government whose very survival depends on  maintaining its control over the voter registration process.  A government that  is not only corrupt but also controls the two branches of government and has considerable influence on the third branch through unlimited resources.  Ignoring all this and trying to give the impression that CORD is simply not doing enough to register people to vote is unfair criticism.  At least acknowledge what CORD is up against in this registration maneno.

Quote
This article clearly fits your long standing narrative about voter registration in Nyanza but this article is more about the local political rivalry between Nyongo camp and Raguma camp than voter registration. Voter Registration is huge right now in Kenya and in Nyanza its taken a new political dimension. Not registering to vote or interfering with voter registration is equivalent to being anti-Raila or being a jubilee mole.  Politicians have figured this out and therefore the most effective weapon against an opponent is to label them anti-voter registration of some sort.  This is Nyongo going nuclear on Raguma and has nothing to do with voter registration. Women have been told to deny men sex if they do not register to vote, folks are not being asked to show their voter registration cards before being provided basic needs and even folks in the diaspora are being asked to stop sending money to relatives who have not registered to vote. 

You are still trying to sell me stuff I've already and repeatedly refused to buy.  My conclusions on what CORD should have been doing and could have been doing all these years were not formed yesterday; nor were my opinions formed without knowledge of the IEBC, the government, etc.     

If as you say, voter registration is "huge" and has taken a "new dimension" in Nyanza, that is excellent.     I don't quite see it that way.  To you the "local political rivalry" among senior people in ODM/CORD does not say much about voter registration; to me it says that these people don't even know have Clue #1 of should be focusing on right now.  I don't see there an environment in which people are inclined to rush out and register as voters.   The formation of half-assed committees at the last minute also indicates a lack of careful and detailed planning (with preparation for contingencies).

But we need not argue endlessly about any of that; we will have the numbers soon enough.   

By the way, I do not have a "long standing narrative about voter registration in Nyanza".   Where did you get that one? I have asked (and asked and asked) questions about CORD and the registration of its supporters, but my questions have never been about any specific region.     Now, for once, let me make a specific comment on Nyanza: Voting in Kenya is largely tribal, so what happens in Nyanza indicates an upper bound on what Raila may reasonably expect elsewhere; that is why it should matter to you folks.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: IEBC Cannot Explain 2013 Results
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2017, 12:58:43 AM »
Raila is getting his family jewels roughed up again, clean or otherwise.  The only thing not in doubt is what will happen afterwards.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman