David Ndii Brings it Down on Tribal Suprimacists

[Omollo]

• Tweet

I read this and said Haleluia and Amen many times. For this is what I have been saying of the Kikuyu Intelligentsia for a few years now. Their pretence to respectability and morality soon vanishes when they sink in tribal gatherings.

They spew all that hate and then expect others to obey laws and observe morality and decorum.

http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/hate-mongers-just-mindless-sycophants-drunk-with-power/440808-3254844-yni9hsz/index.html

[Kichwa]

Wow!

[veritas]

Omollo dearest, if I substitute Kikuyu for Kenyans:

I read this and said Haleluia and Amen many times. For this is what I have been saying of the Kenyan Intelligentsia for a few years now. Their pretence to respectability and morality soon vanishes when they sink in tribal gatherings.

Sounds racist. A divided Kenya isn't cool. I prefer inter-county peace.

Kenya Moja

[Globalcitizen12]

Veritas happy new year ..do not worry about Omollo he needs to really get hold of his bitterness..Dr Ndii is.a patriot that does not need a kikuyu intelligentsia label. Hate leads to destruction of the soul. Dr ndii is a patriot and a man who can tell what is right and wrong. The cost of standing for what is right is high but it is a choice we can make

[veritas]

Thank you GC, happy new year ! 

I get fan mail like Christmas cards from young impressionable Kenyans particularly around this time, for Omollo, RVP, Windy, MK the most popular, and I've received requests for radio/tv interviews, newspaper articles etc for specific members particularly Omollo & RVP, hopefully we can do a tour oneday- make Nipate widespread, so I hope we can be mindful of the next generation with each post.

Thank you to all the fans !! Much LOVE 

[Omollo]

GC

Reasons why it is clear you neither read the Ndii article nor understood my brief introduction of it.

1. Nowhere have I labeled Ndii "Intelligentsia" (Not that there is anything negative with the term)
2. The word "Kikuyu" has been used and appears 6 times in the Ndii article

Veritas: What is offensive about the word Kikuyu? Kikuyus identify themselves as such. They have a language  and the President uses that uniqueness to appoint a large number of them to public jobs.

• My bemusement was compounded by knowing that the man had been a key member of the presidential campaign of a non-Kikuyu presidential candidate.
• The crimes went on to earn me a spot on the Kikuyu traitors list, as well as threatening phone calls, some from personal friends.
• This was not my first encounter with such bigotry. Shortly before the election, I had been duped to speak at a social gathering convened by respectable members of the Kikuyu elite.
• My declining did not go down well, but the diatribe that followed took me by surprise. How could I as a Kikuyu not see the consequences of losing power? That we would be overrun by hostile envious tribes and who would run down the country and dispossess us of everything?
• The incoherence was astounding. One moment we Kikuyus were the Jews of Kenya, resented for our business acumen, in the next we are the ubermensch whose manifest destiny it is to rule Kenya.
• Kikuyu

Veritas happy new year ..do not worry about Omollo he needs to really get hold of his bitterness..Dr Ndii is.a patriot that does not need a kikuyu intelligentsia label. Hate leads to destruction of the soul. Dr ndii is a patriot and a man who can tell what is right and wrong. The cost of standing for what is right is high but it is a choice we can make

[veritas]

There's nothing wrong with the word Kikuyu. I just think it's more specific like MKM- Mount Kenya Mafia. The devil is in the details and we should be above campaign rhetoric. For instance- declaring all Muslims as terrorists is ignorant.

What's off at the moment and you're aware of this, are opportunist individuals who aren't Kikuyu like the Ababus jump ship for Jubilee. This mass exodus coming from all tribes is concerning. It's not just a Kikuyu affair and perhaps you ought to chat to CORD about their strategy.

I also think it's the Indian businesses and financiers favoring the Kikuyu tribe that manifests these unwarranted tribal networks like how the Belgians favored the Tutsis in Rwanda. Indians have a chaste mentality and CORD should be focusing on dismantling these networks.

[Kichwa]

Just like CORD is now being blamed in some quarters for " not making sure elections are not stolen", I see an attempt to blame Omollo for the tribalism described by Ndii which makes people uncomfortable but is not of his making. I do not think its the victims of "election rigging" or " the victims of tribalism who should be blamed but the people who continue these backward practices.  We have to tell the next generation what really happened and not lie to them. Imagine if the Jewish people tried to hide the reality of the holocaust from the their youth or from the German youth on the false premise that this would create division. We have always known about the "gory oath" that Jomo forced Kikuyus take even before Gatu wrote about it, or what Ndii is describing or Macharia's recent declarations that the elections were stolen but it is helpful to hear it from Kikuyus because it is not easily dismissed by the kikuyu inteligenzia propaganda machinery that Omollo talks about.   Do not be afraid of the truth if you want Unity.  Let our children know how the rain started beating us. They can deal with it. To Veritas, I ask,  Who should dismantle the "network", is it CORD or the kikuyu inteligenzia who formed and sustains the network?

[veritas]

Who is this "Kikuyu Intelligenzia" ? as far as I'm concerned Uhuru's inner circle are white or indian if not old boys club MKM dwindling into extinction anyway.

I get what the article is saying but it comes off like a Kikuyu hate piece. There's just too many speculations and suspicions about Kikuyu stereotypes and purported Kikuyu elites breeding some super race like Arendt's experience of Nazism, but I've studied Arendt and the Third Reich and Kenya's situation isn't the same.

Going down this road just spirals misinformation, breeds tension and hate for Kikuyus which is the kind of mentality that led to the PEV. The difference between the last elections and the one coming up is there are concerns this fall-out between Uhuru & Ruto will lead to another PEV between the Kalenjins+ other tribes versus Kikuyus.

I just think we should be more mindful of not demonizing Kikuyus alone for the problems in Kenya's political landscape. It just seems too easy to demonize all problems onto one tribe, but the political landscape today is more complex and involves other stakeholders who could potentially tip the balance of power in favour of democracy, fair & transparent elections.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

David Ndii is right about tribalism.  It's especially problematic and more consequential when practiced by a group in power.  What is interesting?  I am yet to see anyone, including resident Kikuyus, on this forum, condone the tribalism.

That said, tribe is the unit by which political mobilization happens in Kenya.  The Luhya just recently announted their spokesman at Bukhungu and expect every Luhya to toe the line at the risk of political oblivion.  It goes without saying that people like Raphael Tuju are ostracized for not bowing down to the Luo sovereign.

What Ndii is talking about, and he is right, is his experience with one example of a phenomenon that affects the big tribes in Kenya.  The our man syndrome.  The other tribes become rivals or even enemies.  You can be sure unsavory views of other tribes are not the preserve of Kikuyus alone.

It would be nice to see some ideas of how ukabila in politics can be reduced or overcome.  Its anatomy is already well known.  In that sense there isn't anything new or even useful that David Ndii is saying in this article.

[Omollo]

Termie

Your experience alone should be enough to dissuade you from writing what you just wrote. I have known you not to be a sycophant so I am wondering who it is you are trying to please. No offence intended and now let me explain below:

David Ndii is right about tribalism.  It's especially problematic and more consequential when practiced by a group in power.  What is interesting?  I am yet to see anyone, including resident Kikuyus, on this forum, condone the tribalism.

I have been absent for extended periods so I cannot for sure state that there is any resident Kikuyu who has supported tribalism. In any case since the likes of Njamlik visit in disguise it is not easy to know who is and who is not.

That said you have missed the point that David Ndii is making. Those who support the bigotry do so in private and within gatherings of those who share their own views. I stated at choo.com my own experience when persons who I knew and thought of as being above triablism shocked me when they expressed pedestrain tribal views in my presence. They had come to believe I "could be trusted". I have lost one or two friends over time when I came to figure out that tribe was more important to them than anything else.

So if you are expecting a bigot to openly state and acknowledge bigotry you will wait for a very long time.

That said, tribe is the unit by which political mobilization happens in Kenya.  The Luhya just recently anointed their spokesman at Bukhungu and expect every Luhya to toe the line at the risk of political oblivion.

First of all what Atwoli did is still being debated. Frankly speaking I believe it is Atwoli's own retirement plans where he wants to become the Governor of Kakamega.

That said, there is the little detail about generalization... which you have been waving over my head. "Does it mean every Luhya..." (you can complete the question.

On a serious note: The tribalism that i is discussing has nothing to do with the appointment of a "spokesman". He has his focus on something more nefarious and diabolical:

• It is the cultivation of a culture of supremacy;
• The infusion and collective indoctrination of a whole population to hold colonial-like views over fellow citizens
• Mass demonization of legal and official opposition on a personalized scale
• Legitimization of illegalities and denigration of morality and ethics

The list is long.

It goes without saying that people like Raphael Tuju are ostracized for not bowing down to the Luo sovereign.

I have no idea how and when Tuju was ostracized. How was he "punished"? Is it because the "Luo Sovereign" failed to endorse him? Was Tuju dependent on "Sovereigns"? Here is what is publicly known:

• Tuju ran for office on an LDP ticket then upon reaching Parliament bailed from his party and started voting against it.
• He lost the ensuing election.
• It is also a fact that Tuju convinced DP later PNU that he could rival Raila Odinga in Nyanza and for that received massive financial resources.
• He failed to get enough signatures to make it to the ballot.

I have also heard the propaganda (Tuju is sells Propaganda for a living. He has an Information / PR firm) to the effect that he was rejected by the people of Rarieda because they love backwardness so much that he annoyed them with his "Development". Perhaps Termie can stand in for Tuju and specifically state what that development was? We live in a country where the meaning of Development got lost way back in the 60s

If the Luos hate Tuju because of Development why can't he be sponsored for election in Nyeri or Kiambu? CORD has an elected Indian MP in Kisumu. ODM offered Uhuru Kenyatta a seat in any constituency outside Central if membership to parliament was all that took him to support Kibaki in 2007. He declined.

What Ndii is talking about, and he is right, is his experience with one example of a phenomenon that affects the big tribes in Kenya.  The our man syndrome.  The other tribes become rivals or even enemies.  You can be sure unsavory views of other tribes are not the preserve of Kikuyus alone.

I disagree. The so called anti Kikuyu feeling is provoked by what I have described above

It would be nice to see some ideas of how ukabila in politics can be reduced or overcome.  Its anatomy is already well known.  In that sense there isn't anything new or even useful that David Ndii is saying in this article.

[MOON Ki]

Just like CORD is now being blamed in some quarters for " not making sure elections are not stolen",

The excessive emotion is misplaced and unhelpful.   Perfectly clear explanations have already been given. Here: http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=3729.20

[Kichwa]

You can only cure a problem or disease if you have the correct diagnosis.  The notion that ouru is holding power in Kenya with the help of an inner circle of whites and Indians is laughable and is the kind of misdiagnosis which perpetuates the problem. You cannot even begin to deal with Kenya's political problem without dealing with the politics of "nyomba". Read Ndii, read Rev. Gatu's book, listen to S.K Macharia and you will realize that it takes much more than a few rich Indians and whites to sustain "nyomba" politics which has different names including the Kikuyu Inteligensia which Omollo uses.  Just like Racism, the people who practice it matters.    Kikuyu political tribalism unlike other tribes is a problem which must be addressed  because Jomo weaponized it by unfairly politically and economically advantaging  them  while at the same time  economically marginalizing those whom he saw as a threat to his power through dictatorship, political assassition, tribalism and corruption.   Moi followed the script, and rescued the Kalenjins from the basket of the deplorables and that is the only reason why Kalenjins and Kikuyus are economically and politically more powerful than other tribes. The notion that talking about kikuyu hegemony will create hate against the kikuyu is to underestimate the complex relationships between the Kenyan tribes.  We inter-marry, we pray together, work together, do business with each, sleep with each other, go to school with each other and many more.  Those relationships will only be strengthened once we get rid of this "nyomba" business.  We have to confront Kibaki's refusal to relinguish power in 2007, Ouru stealing elections in 2013 and the fairness of 2017 elections and beyond without fear of the truth.  There are many kikuyus who know better but subscribe to Nyomba because most human beings do not  give up an advantage just to be fair to others. The majority will  have to be forced.   

Take gender equality, women who fight against  the advantages men culturally, socially, politically and economically have, are not man-haters.  They just want equality.

Who is this "Kikuyu Intelligenzia" ? as far as I'm concerned Uhuru's inner circle are white or indian if not old boys club MKM dwindling into extinction anyway.

I get what the article is saying but it comes off like a Kikuyu hate piece. There's just too many speculations and suspicions about Kikuyu stereotypes and purported Kikuyu elites breeding some super race like Arendt's experience of Nazism, but I've studied Arendt and the Third Reich and Kenya's situation isn't the same.

Going down this road just spirals misinformation, breeds tension and hate for Kikuyus which is the kind of mentality that led to the PEV. The difference between the last elections and the one coming up is there are concerns this fall-out between Uhuru & Ruto will lead to another PEV between the Kalenjins+ other tribes versus Kikuyus.

I just think we should be more mindful of not demonizing Kikuyus alone for the problems in Kenya's political landscape. It just seems too easy to demonize all problems onto one tribe, but the political landscape today is more complex and involves other stakeholders who could potentially tip the balance of power in favour of democracy, fair & transparent elections.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Termie

Your experience alone should be enough to dissuade you from writing what you just wrote. I have known you not to be a sycophant so I am wondering who it is you are trying to please. No offence intended and now let me explain below:

David Ndii is right about tribalism.  It's especially problematic and more consequential when practiced by a group in power.  What is interesting?  I am yet to see anyone, including resident Kikuyus, on this forum, condone the tribalism.

I have been absent for extended periods so I cannot for sure state that there is any resident Kikuyu who has supported tribalism. In any case since the likes of Njamlik visit in disguise it is not easy to know who is and who is not.

That said you have missed the point that David Ndii is making. Those who support the bigotry do so in private and within gatherings of those who share their own views. I stated at choo.com my own experience when persons who I knew and thought of as being above triablism shocked me when they expressed pedestrain tribal views in my presence. They had come to believe I "could be trusted". I have lost one or two friends over time when I came to figure out that tribe was more important to them than anything else.

So if you are expecting a bigot to openly state and acknowledge bigotry you will wait for a very long time.

That said, tribe is the unit by which political mobilization happens in Kenya.  The Luhya just recently anointed their spokesman at Bukhungu and expect every Luhya to toe the line at the risk of political oblivion.

First of all what Atwoli did is still being debated. Frankly speaking I believe it is Atwoli's own retirement plans where he wants to become the Governor of Kakamega.

That said, there is the little detail about generalization... which you have been waving over my head. "Does it mean every Luhya..." (you can complete the question.

On a serious note: The tribalism that i is discussing has nothing to do with the appointment of a "spokesman". He has his focus on something more nefarious and diabolical:

• It is the cultivation of a culture of supremacy;
• The infusion and collective indoctrination of a whole population to hold colonial-like views over fellow citizens
• Mass demonization of legal and official opposition on a personalized scale
• Legitimization of illegalities and denigration of morality and ethics

The list is long.

It goes without saying that people like Raphael Tuju are ostracized for not bowing down to the Luo sovereign.

I have no idea how and when Tuju was ostracized. How was he "punished"? Is it because the "Luo Sovereign" failed to endorse him? Was Tuju dependent on "Sovereigns"? Here is what is publicly known:

• Tuju ran for office on an LDP ticket then upon reaching Parliament bailed from his party and started voting against it.
• He lost the ensuing election.
• It is also a fact that Tuju convinced DP later PNU that he could rival Raila Odinga in Nyanza and for that received massive financial resources.
• He failed to get enough signatures to make it to the ballot.

I have also heard the propaganda (Tuju is sells Propaganda for a living. He has an Information / PR firm) to the effect that he was rejected by the people of Rarieda because they love backwardness so much that he annoyed them with his "Development". Perhaps Termie can stand in for Tuju and specifically state what that development was? We live in a country where the meaning of Development got lost way back in the 60s

If the Luos hate Tuju because of Development why can't he be sponsored for election in Nyeri or Kiambu? CORD has an elected Indian MP in Kisumu. ODM offered Uhuru Kenyatta a seat in any constituency outside Central if membership to parliament was all that took him to support Kibaki in 2007. He declined.

What Ndii is talking about, and he is right, is his experience with one example of a phenomenon that affects the big tribes in Kenya.  The our man syndrome.  The other tribes become rivals or even enemies.  You can be sure unsavory views of other tribes are not the preserve of Kikuyus alone.

I disagree. The so called anti Kikuyu feeling is provoked by what I have described above

It would be nice to see some ideas of how ukabila in politics can be reduced or overcome.  Its anatomy is already well known.  In that sense there isn't anything new or even useful that David Ndii is saying in this article.

Omollo,

I am not trying to please anyone.  I understand what David Ndii is saying.  I am actually expanding on what he is saying.  Yes Kikuyu tribalism sucks.  That goes without saying.  It is also part of a more widespread behavior in Kenya.  One could argue that the Kikuyu, or at least their elite, bear a greater responsibility in its perpetuation on account of having been in power long enough to have done something about it.  Obviously it's not in their interests to create a country where the focus can shift from tribe to actual performance in office.  Why should they?  Your reactions make me believe you have fallen for the trap hook line and sinker.  Try and separate the issue from your personal experiences with one or two lowlifes.  It might help to look at Kikuyu as fairly normal human beings.

What am I saying?  That when it comes to the masses of the Kikuyu, they behave no different than the Luo, Kalenjin, Bukusu etc masses.  They will have their prejudices and epithets against the other in equal measure.  They feel special and can flex their small muscles behind a tribal kingpin.  These prejudices and hatreds are needed and reinforced by the elites(Liluyu, Luo, etc) to keep the masses entranced because they have nothing else to sell them.  If Kiuks are reminded that Jadhes are the enemy, they are less likely to pay attention to the fact that they are all being equally shafted and will wake up at 4 am on election day to vote for their tormentors to protect them against the enemy  But all this is common knowledge.  What you want is to show that somehow Kikuyu prejudice is worse because it's...well Kikuyu,

Something else David Ndii is not saying.  How are we supposed to end tribalism?  You also don't seem to have any suggestions on how the problem can be overcome.

[Kichwa]

Moon-ki,  you can disagree without being condescending. Its not necessary. 

Just like CORD is now being blamed in some quarters for " not making sure elections are not stolen",

The excessive emotion is misplaced and unhelpful.   Perfectly clear explanations have already been given. Here: http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=3729.20

[MOON Ki]

Moon-ki,  you can disagree without being condescending. Its not necessary. 

Just like CORD is now being blamed in some quarters for " not making sure elections are not stolen",

The excessive emotion is misplaced and unhelpful.   Perfectly clear explanations have already been given. Here: http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=3729.20

The matter was discussed and explanations given on another thread, and I assumed we were done there.   Instead, here you are taking a sly dig, on another  thread.    You got a matching, but more direct, response.

[Kichwa]

Windy,  I hear you but I am not sure I agree with you that all Kenyan tribes will react the same when it comes to gaining or losing political power.   Kikuyus are very unique because not only have they had power three times, but they had power when Kenya was a dictatorship and Jomo had the absolute power to not only unfairly reward them but also to marginalize others.  The only other people who have had the same experience are Kalenjins and that is why they want it again in 2022.  I believe Kenyans tribes who have not had the presidency under those circumstances will be happy with a level playing field even if their man is not president.  As a luo, I do not know how it is to have a luo president in Kenya and I do not expect much from a luo presidency. You do not hear talks from other tribes such as "we will rule for 100 years" or "never again shall power leave the house of mumbi".

Termie

Your experience alone should be enough to dissuade you from writing what you just wrote. I have known you not to be a sycophant so I am wondering who it is you are trying to please. No offence intended and now let me explain below:

David Ndii is right about tribalism.  It's especially problematic and more consequential when practiced by a group in power.  What is interesting?  I am yet to see anyone, including resident Kikuyus, on this forum, condone the tribalism.

I have been absent for extended periods so I cannot for sure state that there is any resident Kikuyu who has supported tribalism. In any case since the likes of Njamlik visit in disguise it is not easy to know who is and who is not.

That said you have missed the point that David Ndii is making. Those who support the bigotry do so in private and within gatherings of those who share their own views. I stated at choo.com my own experience when persons who I knew and thought of as being above triablism shocked me when they expressed pedestrain tribal views in my presence. They had come to believe I "could be trusted". I have lost one or two friends over time when I came to figure out that tribe was more important to them than anything else.

So if you are expecting a bigot to openly state and acknowledge bigotry you will wait for a very long time.

That said, tribe is the unit by which political mobilization happens in Kenya.  The Luhya just recently anointed their spokesman at Bukhungu and expect every Luhya to toe the line at the risk of political oblivion.

First of all what Atwoli did is still being debated. Frankly speaking I believe it is Atwoli's own retirement plans where he wants to become the Governor of Kakamega.

That said, there is the little detail about generalization... which you have been waving over my head. "Does it mean every Luhya..." (you can complete the question.

On a serious note: The tribalism that i is discussing has nothing to do with the appointment of a "spokesman". He has his focus on something more nefarious and diabolical:

• It is the cultivation of a culture of supremacy;
• The infusion and collective indoctrination of a whole population to hold colonial-like views over fellow citizens
• Mass demonization of legal and official opposition on a personalized scale
• Legitimization of illegalities and denigration of morality and ethics

The list is long.

It goes without saying that people like Raphael Tuju are ostracized for not bowing down to the Luo sovereign.

I have no idea how and when Tuju was ostracized. How was he "punished"? Is it because the "Luo Sovereign" failed to endorse him? Was Tuju dependent on "Sovereigns"? Here is what is publicly known:

• Tuju ran for office on an LDP ticket then upon reaching Parliament bailed from his party and started voting against it.
• He lost the ensuing election.
• It is also a fact that Tuju convinced DP later PNU that he could rival Raila Odinga in Nyanza and for that received massive financial resources.
• He failed to get enough signatures to make it to the ballot.

I have also heard the propaganda (Tuju is sells Propaganda for a living. He has an Information / PR firm) to the effect that he was rejected by the people of Rarieda because they love backwardness so much that he annoyed them with his "Development". Perhaps Termie can stand in for Tuju and specifically state what that development was? We live in a country where the meaning of Development got lost way back in the 60s

If the Luos hate Tuju because of Development why can't he be sponsored for election in Nyeri or Kiambu? CORD has an elected Indian MP in Kisumu. ODM offered Uhuru Kenyatta a seat in any constituency outside Central if membership to parliament was all that took him to support Kibaki in 2007. He declined.

What Ndii is talking about, and he is right, is his experience with one example of a phenomenon that affects the big tribes in Kenya.  The our man syndrome.  The other tribes become rivals or even enemies.  You can be sure unsavory views of other tribes are not the preserve of Kikuyus alone.

I disagree. The so called anti Kikuyu feeling is provoked by what I have described above

It would be nice to see some ideas of how ukabila in politics can be reduced or overcome.  Its anatomy is already well known.  In that sense there isn't anything new or even useful that David Ndii is saying in this article.

Omollo,

I am not trying to please anyone.  I understand what David Ndii is saying.  I am actually expanding on what he is saying.  Yes Kikuyu tribalism sucks.  That goes without saying.  It is also part of a more widespread behavior in Kenya.  One could argue that the Kikuyu, or at least their elite, bear a greater responsibility in its perpetuation on account of having been in power long enough to have done something about it.  Obviously it's not in their interests to create a country where the focus can shift from tribe to actual performance in office.  Why should they?  Your reactions make me believe you have fallen for the trap hook line and sinker.  Try and separate the issue from your personal experiences with one or two lowlifes.  It might help to look at Kikuyu as fairly normal human beings.

What am I saying?  That when it comes to the masses of the Kikuyu, they behave no different than the Luo, Kalenjin, Bukusu etc masses.  They will have their prejudices and epithets against the other in equal measure.  They feel special and can flex their small muscles behind a tribal kingpin.  These prejudices and hatreds are needed and reinforced by the elites(Liluyu, Luo, etc) to keep the masses entranced because they have nothing else to sell them.  If Kiuks are reminded that Jadhes are the enemy, they are less likely to pay attention to the fact that they are all being equally shafted and will wake up at 4 am on election day to vote for their tormentors to protect them against the enemy  But all this is common knowledge.  What you want is to show that somehow Kikuyu prejudice is worse because it's...well Kikuyu,

Something else David Ndii is not saying.  How are we supposed to end tribalism?  You also don't seem to have any suggestions on how the problem can be overcome.

[Kichwa]

All I ask you is that you do not be condescending by ascribing emotions to my statements. I was actually referring to my very friendly exchange with windy on the same issue and not yours with others. 

Moon-ki,  you can disagree without being condescending. Its not necessary. 

Just like CORD is now being blamed in some quarters for " not making sure elections are not stolen",

The excessive emotion is misplaced and unhelpful.   Perfectly clear explanations have already been given. Here: http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=3729.20

The matter was discussed and explanations given on another thread, and I assumed we were done there.   Instead, here you are taking a sly dig, on another  thread.    You got a matching, but more direct, response.

[MOON Ki]

All I ask you is that you do not be condescending by ascribing emotions to my statements. I was actually referring to my very friendly exchange with windy on the same issue and not yours with others. 

I wasn't aware that "Windy" had stated something that could be construed as blaming CORD  for "not making sure elections are not stolen"; perhaps you could help by pointing out what you had in mind.   On the other hand, the exchange here  http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=3729.20 makes certain things very clear.   

Regardless, I view a statement such as "CORD is now being blamed in some quarters for not making sure elections are not stolen" as nothing more than emotion.   What exactly does that mean?   Who is blaming CORD?  How? Where? Specifically for what?

If you have answers to those questions, that would be nice; provide them.  Otherwise, let's just move on.

[Kichwa]

Moon Ki.  This exchange is such a waste of time.  I am tempted to ask why you are being so emotional about this but I do not want to sound condescending.

Here is my exchange with windy and RVP which I was reffering to.  It appeared to me that they were blaming CORD:

Why is Jubilee the party soooo concerned about Nationwide network failures. There can be a technical solution that targets those few areas without network or when there is network failures in specific areas.  How often do we have country wide network failures anyway.  We only have them for sure during elections when ourutu are candidates.  Rarely do we have problems with M-Pesa countrywide  and yet we so sure that there will be  "nationwide network failures" during the 2017 elections.  Ouru steals the elections early in the day and that is why he needs this provision for manual voting in place so that he his "technicians" can bring the system down and stuff ballot boxes with fake voters already registered.  The 2 million voters who only vote for president can only "vote" manually during a man made nationwide network failure and that is why Jubilee is taking this extraordinary steps to make sure this legislation is passed.  If this was a genuine concern they would have easily debated the matter and found a negotiated solution with CORD.

Doesn't look good. It seem cord just want to stone-wall any progress towards free and fair election. If there are places without network - how will you electronically transmit or if there is network failure - what happens.

But that is what I am saying Kichwa.  It only becomes possible if CORD is in the house negotiating and not protesting in the streets or courts.  They can even insist that if systems go down, we permit a certain delay to give them time to come back online.  As it is, Jubilee has their way because they encountered no resistance where it mattered.