Why is it always kalenjins?????

[Pajero]

• Tweet

[RVtitem]

That is very superficial reporting. It would be more sensible if the article gave more details on the root cause of these problems.

I also think that those are individuals who have gone against the law and not an entire community.

[Pajero]

The Kisii and Kipsigis communities have been engaging in retaliatory attacks for the past five months citing a border conflict.
The two sides accuse each other of cattle rustling.

[RV Pundit]

The problem is kalenjin "military" training of 14-18 yrs old every year as part of initiation. This I believe is the root cause why Kalenjin will resort to violence if there is any disagreement. Nobody really care about these child soldiers as long as they train on bows and arrows. Maybe there is need to ban some of these activities.

http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2016/02/23/understanding-kalenjin-initiation-rites_c1299520
 

The boys did a lot of practice shooting at targets if they were not actually hunting birds and animals for food. They were getting ready to be accurate marksmen in warfare. It was a time of testing for the boys to determine if they would make good soldiers.

[Gumzo]

The problem is kalenjin "military" training   of 14-18 yrs old every year as part of initiation. This I believe is the root cause why Kalenjin will resort to violence if there is any disagreement. Nobody really care about these child soldiers as long as they train on bows and arrows. Maybe there is need to ban some of these activities.

Yes !!! Kalenjin or GOK need to end that warrior upuzi..like yesterday
its also what RV politicians use to get Kalenjins killing other people
its a proven threat to national security




   

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

A good chunk of traditional Kalenjin land(prior to colonization) has been taken over by people from other communities.  You rarely find "settlers" in large numbers in other areas perceived to belong to say the Luo, Kisii, Luhya etc.

[Kichwa]

Usually that would be a reason for the Kalenjins to be more tolerant than communities who are not used to this.  A none Kalenjin who  went to a boarding secondary schools in Nandiland  told me that they were targeted for retaliation in school by Kalenjin students whenever there were tribal border wars.

[jakoyo]

With the formation of JAP , all these conflicts will be a thing of the past.

[RV Pundit]

Land or tribal clashes are restricted to politics.Kalenjin claim of ancestral land is more generic..there is nobody who can identify that they lost this land to this tribe..it been 100yrs of movement for many people. That has nexus with politics. But what cause perennial conflict in kalenjin (both within itself -tranzoia,pokot,elgeyo markwet & baringo) and with other tribes (gusii,maasai,luo,luhya) is the backward retrogressive cattle rustling which need to be criminalized. Cattle rustling will then spark clashes...as other tribes or sub-tribe avenges the loss of cattle by killing or burning houses...leading to full scale mindless loss of life and property.

Kalenjin should stop cattle rustling like they ended FGM.

[RVtitem]

Land or tribal clashes are restricted to politics.Kalenjin claim of ancestral land is more generic..there is nobody who can identify that they lost this land to this tribe..it been 100yrs of movement for many people. That has nexus with politics. But what cause perennial conflict in kalenjin (both within itself -tranzoia,pokot,elgeyo markwet & baringo) and with other tribes (gusii,maasai,luo,luhya) is the backward retrogressive cattle rustling which need to be criminalized. Cattle rustling will then spark clashes...as other tribes or sub-tribe avenges the loss of cattle by killing or burning houses...leading to full scale mindless loss of life and property.

Kalenjin should stop cattle rustling like they ended FGM.

I think the problem has been with those who use the government to acquire more territory at the expense of others. This was prevalent after independence.

Prior to independence, it was common for tribes to engage in wars of conquest and the strong ones claimed more land. I believe this also happens in the bible.....and is how most European states were born.

[RV Pundit]

This is nonsense my friend - backed by nonsense in the bible.

think the problem has been with those who use the government to acquire more territory at the expense of others. This was prevalent after independence.

Prior to independence, it was common for tribes to engage in wars of conquest and the strong ones claimed more land. I believe this also happens in the bible.....and is how most European states were born.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Land or tribal clashes are restricted to politics.Kalenjin claim of ancestral land is more generic..there is nobody who can identify that they lost this land to this tribe..it been 100yrs of movement for many people. That has nexus with politics. But what cause perennial conflict in kalenjin (both within itself -tranzoia,pokot,elgeyo markwet & baringo) and with other tribes (gusii,maasai,luo,luhya) is the backward retrogressive cattle rustling which need to be criminalized. Cattle rustling will then spark clashes...as other tribes or sub-tribe avenges the loss of cattle by killing or burning houses...leading to full scale mindless loss of life and property.

Kalenjin should stop cattle rustling like they ended FGM.

It's been a hundred years but I don't think there is any doubt which tribe "belongs where" in Kenya.  If anything, it was less certain in the 70s and 80s than it is today. 

The OP wants to know why Kalenjins seem to be involved in ethnic clashes with different tribes.  It has nothing to do with the Kalenjin per se.  But rather that their tribal lands appear to have been "occupied" - you need not look further than where the flash points happen. 

The Marakwet/Pokot issue is different and could be more amenable to the suggested solution of education and end of cattle rustling - change of cultural behavior.  That might have something inherently Marakwet/Pokot in nature.

The other one has more to do with the common feeling among Kalenjins that some people are "foreigners".  Politics can trigger it.  But sometimes it just explodes "without warning" or even after a domestic dispute.  It is not an inherently Kalenjin attitude - you can sense it sometimes among the pwani peoples.  It's more of a national problem.

[RV Pundit]

You're wrong. Like Ruto said in some interview during Waki commision. Land is not the problem. It as much as problem as it in Coast or like Nyanza feeling of marginalization. It more a general feeling. It can only be sparked if there is general widespread feeling...like 92/98/07...certainly of political nature.

When you talk about the areas and flashpoint - I don't know which one - the current one in olmelil is case where Kipsigis and gusii are strangers - the land there belong to maasai and is in narok county - what I am sure sparked this - is nothing more than cattle rustling gone wrong. This is true with flashes in  Nandi/Luo border of Chemelil/Muhoroni/Kisumu. The same is true in clashes within kalenjin in transzoia, elgeyo market,baringo, turkana, samburu and recently in narok north btw kipsigis-maasai- name it. This is more localized daily occurrence that flares up.

The immediate problem is  cattle rustling. Land grievance need huge political nexus to explode. Cattle rustling doesn't. One guy wakes up, steal cows from another tribe or sub-tribe, kill or is killed..and there it exploded.

Small sparks(cattle rustling). Huge sparks (Land clashes) need to start that fire.

It's been a hundred years but I don't think there is any doubt which tribe "belongs where" in Kenya.  If anything, it was less certain in the 70s and 80s than it is today. 

The OP wants to know why Kalenjins seem to be involved in ethnic clashes with different tribes.  It has nothing to do with the Kalenjin per se.  But rather that their tribal lands appear to have been "occupied" - you need not look further than where the flash points happen. 

The Marakwet/Pokot issue is different and could be more amenable to the suggested solution of education and end of cattle rustling - change of cultural behavior.  That might have something inherently Marakwet/Pokot in nature.

The other one has more to do with the common feeling among Kalenjins that some people are "foreigners".  Politics can trigger it.  But sometimes it just explodes "without warning" or even after a domestic dispute.  It is not an inherently Kalenjin attitude - you can sense it sometimes among the pwani peoples.  It's more of a national problem.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

You're wrong. Like Ruto said in some interview during Waki commision. Land is not the problem. It as much as problem as it in Coast or like Nyanza feeling of marginalization. It more a general feeling. It can only be sparked if there is general widespread feeling...like 92/98/07...certainly of political nature.

When you talk about the areas and flashpoint - I don't know which one - the current one in olmelil is case where Kipsigis and gusii are strangers - the land there belong to maasai and is in narok county - what I am sure sparked this - is nothing more than cattle rustling gone wrong. This is true with flashes in  Nandi/Luo border of Chemelil/Muhoroni/Kisumu. The same is true in clashes within kalenjin in transzoia, elgeyo market,baringo, turkana, samburu and recently in narok north btw kipsigis-maasai- name it. This is more localized daily occurrence that flares up.

The immediate problem is  cattle rustling. Land grievance need huge political nexus to explode. Cattle rustling doesn't. One guy wakes up, steal cows from another tribe or sub-tribe, kill or is killed..and there it exploded.

Small sparks(cattle rustling). Huge sparks (Land clashes) need to start that fire.

It's been a hundred years but I don't think there is any doubt which tribe "belongs where" in Kenya.  If anything, it was less certain in the 70s and 80s than it is today. 

The OP wants to know why Kalenjins seem to be involved in ethnic clashes with different tribes.  It has nothing to do with the Kalenjin per se.  But rather that their tribal lands appear to have been "occupied" - you need not look further than where the flash points happen. 

The Marakwet/Pokot issue is different and could be more amenable to the suggested solution of education and end of cattle rustling - change of cultural behavior.  That might have something inherently Marakwet/Pokot in nature.

The other one has more to do with the common feeling among Kalenjins that some people are "foreigners".  Politics can trigger it.  But sometimes it just explodes "without warning" or even after a domestic dispute.  It is not an inherently Kalenjin attitude - you can sense it sometimes among the pwani peoples.  It's more of a national problem.

Okay suppose you are right and I have no reason to think you are not.  The point I making is that the Kalenjin just happen to find themselves at more flashpoints.  It's not like they are some sick group of people, as what I suspect the is OP's intended meme.  But also Maasai land has been up for grabs for sometime...I think if their population was larger, you'd be having more such clashes involving them.

[RV Pundit]

This happens in places where people still practice cattle rustling. Maasai form of cattle rustling were big major raid by entire clans. This ended maybe 100yrs ago. They don't do small time kalenjin cattle raiding where small party of 3 or 4 or even 2 raiders..go and steal cattle from other tribe or sub-tribe or whatever is acceptable. I think in South Sudan you have some of these issues...murle and maybe in southern ethiopia..dasanniech.

This was an issue even before independence..and the Brits solution to this nearly worked..they created buffers btw Kalenjin and other tribes and settled there..so you find Borabu/Chemelili-Muhoroni/Lugari and many white highlands created to end this kalenjin cattle rustling menace.

Of course at the very root of this is kalenjin dual sin philosophy where they believe stealing or killing or doing whatever to non-kalenjin (or non-subtribe) is no big deal --while doing the same to fellow kalenjin is abomination. Therefore kalenjin have no incentive to end cattle rustling. It doesn't affect them. Cattle thieves restrict their trade to non-kalenjin...in turn they get community silence and protection. A cattle thief will work 100kms of land full of Kalenjin good cows..to go and steal useless cow.

Okay suppose you are right and I have no reason to think you are not.  The point I making is that the Kalenjin just happen to find themselves at more flashpoints.  It's not like they are some sick group of people, as what I suspect the is OP's intended meme.  But also Maasai land has been up for grabs for sometime...I think if their population was larger, you'd be having more such clashes involving them.

[Gumzo]

This happens in places where people still practice cattle rustling. Maasai form of cattle rustling were big major raid by entire clans. This ended maybe 100yrs ago. They don't do small time kalenjin cattle raiding where small party of 3 or 4 or even 2 raiders..go and steal cattle from other tribe or sub-tribe or whatever is acceptable. I think in South Sudan you have some of these issues...murle and maybe in southern ethiopia..dasanniech.

This was an issue even before independence..and the Brits solution to this nearly worked..they created buffers btw Kalenjin and other tribes and settled there..so you find Borabu/Chemelili-Muhoroni/Lugari and many white highlands created to end this kalenjin cattle rustling menace.

Of course at the very root of this is kalenjin dual sin philosophy where they believe stealing or killing or doing whatever to non-kalenjin (or non-subtribe) is no big deal --while doing the same to fellow kalenjin is abomination. Therefore kalenjin have no incentive to end cattle rustling. It doesn't affect them. Cattle thieves restrict their trade to non-kalenjin...in turn they get community silence and protection. A cattle thief will work 100kms of land full of Kalenjin good cows..to go and steal useless cow.

That kalenjin dual sin philosophy also needs to be eradicated like....yesterday
 

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

This happens in places where people still practice cattle rustling. Maasai form of cattle rustling were big major raid by entire clans. This ended maybe 100yrs ago. They don't do small time kalenjin cattle raiding where small party of 3 or 4 or even 2 raiders..go and steal cattle from other tribe or sub-tribe or whatever is acceptable. I think in South Sudan you have some of these issues...murle and maybe in southern ethiopia..dasanniech.

This was an issue even before independence..and the Brits solution to this nearly worked..they created buffers btw Kalenjin and other tribes and settled there..so you find Borabu/Chemelili-Muhoroni/Lugari and many white highlands created to end this kalenjin cattle rustling menace.

Of course at the very root of this is kalenjin dual sin philosophy where they believe stealing or killing or doing whatever to non-kalenjin (or non-subtribe) is no big deal --while doing the same to fellow kalenjin is abomination. Therefore kalenjin have no incentive to end cattle rustling. It doesn't affect them. Cattle thieves restrict their trade to non-kalenjin...in turn they get community silence and protection. A cattle thief will work 100kms of land full of Kalenjin good cows..to go and steal useless cow.

That kalenjin dual sin philosophy also needs to be eradicated like....yesterday
 

It's not a strange concept in a tribalistic society.  Most other tribes in Kenya think the same about certain other groups.  So it does not explain why Kalenjins find themselves frequently in those situations.

[RV Pundit]

I am not aware of other tribes treatment of crimes btw stranger and those within. Do you know a tribe that has two words for say murder or stealing or name any vices depending on whether the action was done to Kalenjin or not. I know other tribes will probably excuse crimes done to stranger but I doubt they have such a deep philosophy of the same. Certainly Kiswahili or English doesn't have such terms.

It's not a strange concept in a tribalistic society.  Most other tribes in Kenya think the same about certain other groups.  So it does not explain why Kalenjins find themselves frequently in those situations.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I am not aware of other tribes treatment of crimes btw stranger and those within. Do you know a tribe that has two words for say murder or stealing or name any vices depending on whether the action was done to Kalenjin or not. I know other tribes will probably excuse crimes done to stranger but I doubt they have such a deep philosophy of the same. Certainly Kiswahili or English doesn't have such terms.

It's not a strange concept in a tribalistic society.  Most other tribes in Kenya think the same about certain other groups.  So it does not explain why Kalenjins find themselves frequently in those situations.

I don't know of any with different words about killing an animal and a human either. But those actions are still seen in a totally different light.  The point is, when there is a lack of empathy(which is the key really), there is simply no room for pity or mercy.  They know they are killing a human.  But they don't have empathy for them.

[RV Pundit]

Interesting. I think you need to study societies whose economic mainstay involve stealing cows from others as legitimate source of livehood to understand this. I think such socieites like kalenjin and other pastoral group that involved themselves in cattle rustling as part of their daily activity have developed deeper dual sin philosophy to justify the lack of "empathy" or the obviously mainstream culture of stealing -which every humanbeing realize is a vice. I don't expect say a bantu society who grow food to have the need to justify some action or say a Luo whose main economic activity is to fish. There is no point for them to define two standards of stealing or killing -which are rare occurance -not a way of life. But if you were to come from long family of "thuggery" then you'd need philosophy to distinguish it.

Kalenjin and others for centuries have glorified stealing (cattle rustling) as the most important economic activity one could engage in! There was not much investment in animal husbandry. There was little in way of people growing their stock of cattle through say breeding. You want animal - you go to steal. You want to marry - you go to steal. You want to die poor and live in poverty - you be the coward that never went to raid. Of course the whole stealing then involve leaders (Koitalels) who'd make money (more cattle than anyone) by sanctioning more and more raids..and getting a share of it..for blessing or strategy.

British colonoliast did a excellent job fighting this...and Kenya gov seem to drop the ball.

I don't know of any with different words about killing an animal and a human either. But those actions are still seen in a totally different light.  The point is, when there is a lack of empathy(which is the key really), there is simply no room for pity or mercy.  They know they are killing a human.  But they don't have empathy for them.