Kenya orders 1.1m tablets from China

[RV Pundit]

Why don't you how us what we need to see.   Have they produced "many thousand bill gates"?   

[MOON Ki]

Yeah. They have. US and Estonia have produced thousands of tech entrepreneurs like Bill gates and have created new industries.

I see.   So by "bill gates" you now mean just "tech entrepreneur"?    I wonder, then, why you stated you could never be like Gates or Zuckerberg because you did not have computers when you were a kid.   If it is just about a country having
thousands of tech entrepreneurs, then many countries have that. 

But you still have not shown that dishing computers to kids means  there will be a profusion of tech entrepreneurs or that it is a necessity.    In fact, even Kenya right now is producing tech entrepreneurs tech entrepreneurs who did not have them at that point.

Estonia has tech start ups for nearly every person.

A meaningless statement.    You need a number there.  Is it 0.0001, or 0.5, or 1, or 10,  ... tech star-ups for nearly every person?

[RV Pundit]

Yeah. They have. US and Estonia have produced thousands of tech entrepreneurs like Bill gates and have created new industries.

I see.   So by "bill gates" you now mean just "tech entrepreneur"?    I wonder, then, why you stated you could never be like Gates or Zuckerbag because you did not have computers when you were a kid.   If it is just about a country having
thousands of tech entrepreneurs, then many countries have that. 

But you still have not shown that dishing computers to kids means  there will be a profusion of tech entrepreneurs or that it is a necessity.    In fact, even Kenya right now is producing tech entrepreneurs tech entrepreneurs who did not have them at that point.

Estonia has tech start ups for nearly every person.

A meaningless statement.    You need a number there.  Is it 0.0001, or 0.5, or 1, or 10,  ... tech start ups for nearly every person?

[MOON Ki]

US has produce several tech billioniares and millionaires like Gates. Having even a single Bill Gates bringing in say 10B USD is big deal for a country like kenya.

As usual, you have failed to understand the issue that is actually being discussed.     We all know that the USA has produced many tech *illionaires.  Nobody disputes that.   Nor would anybody dispute that "Having even a single Bill Gates bringing in say 10B USD is big deal for a country like kenya."

What is being disputed is your claim that giving computers to kids will lead to people like Gates and Zuckerberg.

For amusement: Did you that Ma Yun (aka Jack Ma) did not even hear about the internet until 1994 (when he was about 30), didn't own a computer until he was about 34, can't write a "hallo world" program, ...?

You seem to have a very short memory.   Remember that exchange in which you started by claiming  that Kenya would follow the "many countries that have moved to developed world through focusing solely on services"; we chased you around as you jumped from one bad "proof" to another; and you ended up in the total reversal of claiming that Kenya would be a "rare exception"?   Estonia was one of your "proofs" there.   You did not do well with it then, and it is no better here.

In 2015, the largest contributor to Estonia's GDP is manufacturing, at 15.1%---higher than Kenya's, yet Estonia is your example of the high-tech path to follow. Next is wholesale/retail trade etc., at 12.3%; next is real estate, at 10.4%; ....;ICT is farther down, at 5.5%.

In 2015, machinery and appliances make up almost one-third of Estonia's exports; next is wood and wood products; next is agricultural and food products; next is mineral products; next is other manufactured products;  .... ICT exports are apparently so small that they are not considered among "main exports"

[Kadudu]

I am amazed by the idea that ICT can become Kenya's main industry in 20-30 years. How in the world will such an industry employ millions of people?
Kenya had better turn to manufacturing asap. We have no other alternative. ICT can only be part of the solution and not the only solution. In 2050 the 60 million Kenyans will all need a couple of sufurias. Why do we then have to import them from Bangladesh or Ethiopia?

[RV Pundit]

Yeah I guess those spending 17B have totally failed to see the issue..the same way Estonia failed to see it. You can have (and must have in the future) tech (IT) enabling all the other sectors of the economy..including manufacturing. Estonia is one example that has done it...and we just need to copy-paste.

It is hard to know or measure the impact or output of giving these kids computing skills in std 1 whether studying in a manyatta or in nice classroom but one this is obvious...these kids will be waaaaaaaaaay better than those than don't have computer introduced early.

Computers is now nearly everything..those tablets connected to internet..is the world library and school squeeze into the tiny gadget.

This daunting project already achieved another objective..nearly all schools have been connected to electric grid or some off grid solutions - next maybe they'll be connected to broadband. Those are nearly 20,0000 transformers....meaning we can achieve universal electricity coverage if we just supply everyone from the school grids.

Gov has to go full board here - I am told from next year - all secondary schools will have to hire computer science teacher--and have computer labs.

You don't leapfrog by doing the easy stuff. Jubilee has done what no other Africa country has done...supplying 1M tablet or laptops to every kid. Historic.

US has produce several tech billioniares and millionaires like Gates. Having even a single Bill Gates bringing in say 10B USD is big deal for a country like kenya.

As usual, you have failed to understand the issue that is actually being discussed.     We all know that the USA has produced many tech *illionaires.  Nobody disputes that.   Nor would anybody dispute that "Having even a single Bill Gates bringing in say 10B USD is big deal for a country like kenya."

What is being disputed is your claim that giving computers to kids will lead to people like Gates and Zuckerberg.

You seem to have a very short memory.   Remember that exchange in which you started by claiming  that Kenya would follow the "many countries that have moved to developed world through focusing solely on services"; we chased you around as you jumped from one bad "proof" to another; and you ended up in the total reversal of claiming that Kenya would be a "rare exception"?   Estonia was one of your "proofs" there.   You did not do well with it then, and it is no better here.

In 2015, the largest contributor to Estonia's GDP is manufacturing, at 15.1%---higher than Kenya's, yet Estonia is your example of the high-tech path to follow. Next is wholesale/retail trade etc., at 12.3%; next is real estate, at 10.4%; ....;ICT is farther down, at 5.5%.

In 2015, machinery and appliances make up almost one-third of Estonia's exports; next is wood and wood products; next is agricultural and food products; next is mineral products; next is other manufactured products;  .... ICT exports are apparently so small that they are not considered among "main exports"

[RV Pundit]

150yrs ago it was hard to imagine how a country could survive with 2% of economy restricted to Agriculture. We are in the cusp of information revolution. Not dissimilar to industrial revolution that has been the bedrock of economies the last century or two. Computers will manufacture sufuria...so you're better of learning computers. The same way you've one farmer producing lots of food thanks to machines feeding and milking cows. The next century will have milk sensors embedded inside the cows teat and really crazy innovation what we have now will look really archaic. These kids now in std 1 will be the one to invent all these crazy innovations...otherwise we will have to buy inappropriate technology from Estonia.

I am amazed by the idea that ICT can become Kenya's main industry in 20-30 years. How in the world will such an industry employ millions of people?
Kenya had better turn to manufacturing asap. We have no other alternative. ICT can only be part of the solution and not the only solution. In 2050 the 60 million Kenyans will all need a couple of sufurias. Why do we then have to import them from Bangladesh or Ethiopia?

[MOON Ki]

Yeah I guess those spending 17B have totally failed to see the issue..the same way Estonia failed to see it. You can have (and must have in the future) tech (IT) enabling all the other sectors of the economy..including manufacturing. Estonia is one example that has done it...and we just need to copy-paste.

Some of the basic relevant facts on Estonia are as I have summarized them above.   They seem clear enough.    Time to move on ... is it Seychelles or Mauritius next?   

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

[RV Pundit]

Tech is ever evolving..computer labs is so 90s...laptops so 2000s..and now tablets is everywhere..including in my current job...where are building application to ran on tablets and phones..not desktop. Nobody in our office has a desktop computer.

Tablets are now so cheap, so powerful,so portable and so easy to maintain....so if goK have settled on it...that is great. We as org did similarly settled on it.

[RV Pundit]

Let's try Rwanda..who already have got I think 1/3 of their kids on similar devices.Rwanda have 500 schools using nearly 300,000 OLAP laptops (Classmate).
http://one.laptop.org/map/rwanda
Here is Rwanda planning to have high schools do online exam in 2018 - after distributing 60,000 laptops.
http://rwandaeye.com/rwanda-aims-to-go-paperless-for-2018-national-exams/

Now this where Kenya is having to play catch up....and hopefully by 2020...we can eliminate exam cheating and all the expenses (billions of shs) of  KCPE/KCSE by having every kid sit their exam on the tablets.

Certainly a Kid who has used tablet or laptops for 8yrs...should be very comfortable selecting ABCD in a tablet..and typing their essay online.

Some of the basic relevant facts on Estonia are as I have summarized them above.   They seem clear enough.    Time to move on ... is it Seychelles or Mauritius next?   

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Tech is ever evolving..computer labs is so 90s...laptops so 2000s..and now tablets is everywhere..including in my current job...where are building application to ran on tablets and phones..not desktop. Nobody in our office has a desktop computer.

Tablets are now so cheap, so powerful,so portable and so easy to maintain....so if goK have settled on it...that is great. We as org did similarly settled on it.

So I take it they did computer labs.  What is the problem with labs?

[RV Pundit]

So if they used mainframes (like bill gates); then we need to do the same; Estonia did this in 90s; tablets or laptop were not this cheap, portable, easy to charge and name it. My neighbour high school has a computer lab which is only used during the holidays..when the principal loan the lab...to ECD teachers or whoever pays to use them. The rest of time it locked up...coz they don't have a teacher to teach computers.

With those tablets...a teacher move with them in small box..from class 1 to class 8..takes them home or to office to charge..locks them up or when we can afford..every kid takes it home.

So I take it they did computer labs.  What is the problem with labs?

[MOON Ki]

Let's try Rwanda..who already have got I think 1/3 of their kids on similar devices.Rwanda have 500 schools using nearly 300,000 OLAP laptops (Classmate).

You still continue to miss the point.   So Rwanda has so many laptops per child and is planning to have so many more.   So?  What of it?    What are we supposed to learn from the sketchy information at the link you have provided?

Here is Rwanda planning to have high schools do online exam in 2018 - after distributing 60,000 laptops.
http://rwandaeye.com/rwanda-aims-to-go-paperless-for-2018-national-exams/

What does that have to do with, say, learning outcomes?   Do students get smarter if the exams are online?   

Certainly a Kid who has used tablet or laptops for 8yrs...should be very comfortable selecting ABCD in a tablet..and typing their essay online.

Being able to select ABCD on a tablet and typing skills?    Wow.

The issue here is twofold: (a) whether computers in such a context actually make an appreciable difference in learning, and (b) whether the investment is worthwhile in a country where schools have more urgent needs and challenges (e.g., in Kenya, lazy teachers who don't even know what they are teaching). 

To that you may add the minor one of how giving computers to toddlers produces Bill Gates and Zuckerberg types come about.   

[RV Pundit]

Your totally miss the point. Those computers (be they laptop or tablets) actually are the solution to the problem you describe. These tablet come preloaded with syallabus e-content, many e-books and thousands of resources (visual aids, tutorials, audio-visual guides, mutli-media, videos) that would be very expensive to have or impossible to have for kids in places like Turkana. They are actually a solution. You don't need a classroom when you have a tablet. This is the FUTURE. I mean there are studies that show if you leave these kids with tablets loaded with relevant content..they can actually self-teach. Having these computer will tremendously improve quality of education. I certainly felt I didn't need a teacher when I was in campus and got introduced to the internet. Some of our poorly trained teachers cannot explain the most basic concept...that quick google or video can make it so CLEAR. If you connect this table to internet..you're opening the entire world to these kids..majority from humble background. The impact is hard to quantify.

You still continue to miss the point.   So Rwanda has so many laptops per child and is planning to have so many more.   So?  What of it?    What are we supposed to learn from the sketchy information at the link you have provided?

The issue here is twofold: (a) whether computers in such a context actually make an appreciable difference in learning, and (b) whether the investment is worthwhile in a country where schools have more urgent needs and challenges (e.g., in Kenya, lazy teachers who don't even know what they are teaching). 

To that you may add the minor one of how giving computers to toddlers produces Bill Gates and Zuckerberg types come about.   

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

So if they used mainframes (like bill gates); then we need to do the same; Estonia did this in 90s; tablets or laptop were not this cheap, portable, easy to charge and name it. My neighbour high school has a computer lab which is only used during the holidays..when the principal loan the lab...to ECD teachers or whoever pays to use them. The rest of time it locked up...coz they don't have a teacher to teach computers.

With those tablets...a teacher move with them in small box..from class 1 to class 8..takes them home or to office to charge..locks them up or when we can afford..every kid takes it home.

So I take it they did computer labs.  What is the problem with labs?

Why not use mainframes?  They call them the cloud these days.  In any case, this so-called laptop project cannot function without them.  I am assuming they will be downloading learning materials from somewhere.  You seem to conflate learning on a tablet with learning about them.  How many Kenyans are pencil or paper manufacturing experts for having used these things in school?

The most it will do is introduce a tool for learning - maybe a toy.  They will use tablets to overcome some challenges like text books and for augmentation of learning.  Unless there is something I left out.  They still need a good human teacher and learning environment - which ought to be the main focus of any serious education policy.  Some might be inspired - can't rule it out.  But a policy should not be made on the off-chance that something good might happen.

[MOON Ki]

Your totally miss the point. Those computers (be they laptop or tablets) actually are the solution to the problem you describe. These tablet come preloaded with syallabus e-content, many e-books and thousands of resources (visual aids, tutorials, audio-visual guides, mutli-media, videos) that would be very expensive to have or impossible to have for kids in places like Turkana. They are actually a solution. You don't need a classroom when you have a tablet. This is the FUTURE. I mean there are studies that show if you leave these kids with tablets loaded with relevant content..they can actually self-teach. Having these computer will tremendously improve quality of education.

So these tablets will replace teachers who don't show up and teachers who don't understand what they are supposed to teach?   Interesting.    I note that in rich countries, where people can have gadgets pre-loaded with everything under the sun, people still get quite worked up about the quality of teachers or even just the teacher:student ratio.   Apparently people think teachers are important.   (See Toyama's example of tech professionals in Silicon Valley sending their kids to expensive schools that work to keep technology away from the kids.)

But maybe you should point us to the studies you have in mind, and we can then compare them with others.   An example of "others" would be those done by the OECD of its member countries (which include your beloved Estonia).   Last year the OECD issued a report it had done after quite extensive studies.    Michael Trucano---the World Bank's global lead on "innovation for education", with a focus on "technology in education" in low-income countries---has done a nice, little summary:

1.  'Computers' don't teach kids, teachers do (of course others do as well, including: peers; the students themselves; parents; etc.)

2. Mere access to technology makes little impact.

http://blogs.worldbank.org/edutech/OECD-PISA-computers-learning

Your statement that

If you connect this table to internet..you're opening the entire world to these kids..majority from humble background.

brings to mind what Andreas Schleicher, head of the OECD's  Directorate of Education and Skills, had to say:

"And perhaps the most disappointing finding is that technology seems of little help in bridging the skills divide between advantaged and disadvantaged students ... the socio-economic divide between students is not narrowed by technology, perhaps even amplified

and

"ensuring that every child attains a baseline level of proficiency in reading and mathematics seems to do more to create equal opportunities in a digital world than expanding or subsidising access to high-tech devices and services."
...
"building deep, conceptual understanding and higher-order thinking requires intensive teacher-student interactions, and technology sometimes distracts from this valuable human engagement".

http://www.zdnet.com/article/children-need-teachers-to-reach-them-not-computers-says-the-oecd/

I certainly felt I didn't need a teacher when I was in campus and got introduced to the internet.

"Proof by one example" is not much better than "proof by mere assertion".     Steve Jobs dropped out of university and still did well.   But we do not on that account recommend dropping out of, or not going to, university; Jobs himself was quite worked up about his kids completing university.

Yeah I guess those spending 17B have totally failed to see the issue.

On the contrary, the problem is that they see the "issues"---their issues--only too clearly:

*  Issue  No. 1 (and Most Important Issue): kula nyama.

* Issue No. 2 (Beneficial Side-Effect) is neatly summarized by Toyama:

[RV Pundit]

If you have an better option ( masters level primary school teacher) why go the whole way and learn by yourself. If you are in turkana and this is the only decent shot you've got; why not milk the tablet to its last drop. When we were growing up; we would read really torn up books and would treasure the few we found.Therefore any studies you're going to quote; please do more homework.

There are many ways of stealing money..but supplying 1m of tablets with power connected to each is probably the  hardest. The simplest is to add a zero to a budget line...like NYS 17B.

[MOON Ki]

I am amazed by the idea that ICT can become Kenya's main industry in 20-30 years. How in the world will such an industry

Even with such misplaced dreams, the growth of the ICT industry in Kenya is actually slowing down.     Some years of double-digit growth led to fantasies like Konza City and

According to a media statement revealed by capitalfm.co.ke, the Information Communication and Technology (ICT) sector is projected to grow beyond 15 percent by the end of 201520 percent growth mark by end of 2017

http://www.itnewsafrica.com/2015/05/kenya-ict-sector-set-to-grow-by-15-percent/

Reality had its own ideas:

Kenyan ICT sector growth well below predictions in 2015

The ICT sector grew by 7.3 percent in 201,5 compared with 14.6 per cent in 2014, according to the Kenya National Bureau and Statistics (KNBS) Economic survey. Business Daily said the exit of Yu from the market, and Orange Kenya's fixed wireless network switch-off, caused the slowdown. The Ministry of ICT had predicted sector expansion beyond 15 percent by the end of 2015 and approaching 20 percent by end of 2017.

http://www.telecompaper.com/news/kenyan-ict-sector-growth-well-below-predictions-in-2015--1141740

[MOON Ki]

please do more homework.