After all the CORD demos....nothing really changes in IEBC

[Omollo]

I am still waiting for a clear statement of what CORD demanded and what has been achieved. Then we can debate whether it has been a failure or success. You have chosen to nitpick based on media spin.

You now denigrate the departure of the commissioners yet Ruto was among those who stated that the commissioners will never go. Ruto had no problem with internationally named criminals running the IEBC.

FYI we are lobbying the UK government to issue warrants of arrest for Isaack Hassan and others named in the scandal. That is after Uhuru intervened to have him "cleared" by the EACC.

The IEBC rigged the 2013 election.

Raila is a bad negotiator. The endgame of all the demos was just getting a dialogue. This is now very clear. I see CORD appendix (civil society) are also crying foul. I ask one again - what was the endgame? I don't see any change! Some a reputable firm will clean the register - big deal - I think the register is pretty clean.

The biggest winner here are Jubilee and Kenyans..IEBC after CORD endless throwing of mud and chickengate were damaged goods and needed to go..and this talks may give us the same body with confidence of everyone..CORD cannot cry foul when they get a drubbing of their life next year.

Those like me that believe IEBC didn't rig the last election couldn't be any happier.

I guess I will just have to post the entire deal so you don't speculate.

Of course we did not get an ideal situation. Like the IPPG, these are minimum reforms. The real reforms will come when we have power and set up a really independent IEBC.

1. We shall merge the Registration of persons, Passport office, Driving License issuer and the Voter register (Proper titles not used)
2. We shall allow the IEBC to issue own ID cards which will be as good as National ID
3. Private firms (especially banks)which can issue electronic / digital IDs for use in banks could also be used

These are among the proposals not feasible now but will be when we launch a proper digital revolution in Kenya not a PR digital campaign.

I read somewhere Mbadi (ODM chair) and Nyanza Mps are livid of the "deal". They want a fresh register. I see that results will be transmitted live from polling station ( Wasn't this already done?). The only real change that I'm seeing here is that 14 day part list to IEBC that would prevent party hopping.

[RV Pundit]

IEBC commisioners were Raila and Kibaki poddles. Now that they are gone - UhuRuto finally get a level playing ground. Raila basically owned half the IEBC including the secretariat and participated in procuring those kits. He had it all. Now he is going from the frying pan direct to the fire.Jubilee knows no Raila dude can sneak in because Jubilee parliament will have to pass the names with NSIS working to dig any dirt

Raila is not capable of high octane stuff  (that is why Ruto left the kitendawili dude)-- this capitulation is akin to Naivasha constitution review - where Raila turned round and become the originator of the "presidential' system just to save face after UhuRuto did a number on him. Didn't take long before he shouted "OKOA mimi"! - Change the constitution that the "katiba champion" as Kichwa said had just passed in 2010.

The  biggest threat for UhuRuto going to 2017  - was LEGITIMACY of the election body - after CORD relentless baseless campaign against the IEBC -- they had to go and now they've gone in a bipartisan way. What more gift does Uhuru wants - except to knock it by 60% with "CORD" -Jubilee IEBC and supreme court endorsing it.

If Raila had some engame - he would have denied what Jubilee want - legitimacy! He would have muddied the water so bad so he can shout rigging next time and maybe get another NARA. Now like in 2013 - he has straight jacketed himself and allowed Jubilee to appoint brand new IEBC. He has "won" again with dialogue .

I can count how many times in the last few years where Raila doesn't see the endgame -- NARA negotiation - Waki commission -Constitution etc. He just see the immediate moves. He has no endgame.

[Omollo]

Those are old and tired Jubilee talking points. We have had Supreme Court Judges in the US who were appointed by Liberal Presidents turn in to Conservative Hacks loved by the Right Wing Whackos. The fact that Raila appointed commissioners and therefore he owns them and they should have handed him the election is frankly speaking a very primitive argument not worthy of you.

Like it has been stated before, Raila did not appoint his commissioners and we hope Uhuru does not begin to look for his personal advocate like Kibaki did with Kihara Muttu (RIH) May He Rot in Hell). These are public servants from who efficiency and impartiality is expected. They failed and we know why.

They were already corrupt when Uhuru bribed them heavily to tilt the election in his favor. They took certain decisions that allowed Uhuru to steal the elections. Such things like sharing ONE SERVER with Uhuru's party can only be overlooked by you.

We know about meetings held with Gen Karangi and the threats made to journalists and TVs not to broadcast the real results until they were doctored. Raila had no say in what the corrupt or Threatened did.

But keep your eyes open this time.

IEBC commisioners were Raila and Kibaki poddles. Now that they are gone - UhuRuto finally get a level playing ground. Raila basically owned half the IEBC including the secretariat and participated in procuring those kits. He had it all. Now he is going from the frying pan direct to the fire.Jubilee knows no Raila dude can sneak in because Jubilee parliament will have to pass the names with NSIS working to dig any dirt

Raila is not capable of high octane stuff  (that is way Ruto left the kitendawili dude)-- this capitulation is akin to Naivasha constitution review - where Raila turned round and become the originator of the "presidential' system just to save face after UhuRuto did a number on him. Didn't take long before he shouted "OKOA mimi"! - Change the constitution that the "katiba champion" as Kichwa said had just passed in 2010.

The  biggest threat for UhuRuto going to 2017  - was LEGITIMACY of the election body - after CORD relentless baseless campaign against the IEBC -- they had to go and now they've gone in a bipartisan way. What more gift does Uhuru wants - except to knock it by 60% with CORD IEBC and supreme court endorsing it.

If Raila had some engame - he would have denied what Jubilee want - legitimacy! He would have muddied the water so bad so he can shout rigging next time and maybe get another NARA. Now like in 2013 - he has straight jacketed himself and allowed Jubilee to appoint brand new IEBC. He has "won" again with dialogue .

I can count how many times in the last few years where Raila doesn't see the endgame -- NARA negotiation - Waki commission -Constitution etc. He just see the immediate moves. He has no endgame.

[RV Pundit]

Hope spring eternal. Kibaki was basically a good ajua player. UhuRuto are excellent chess players. Ask the ICC. Raila's Caroli Omondi sat in the panel that interviewed IEBC commisioners, his man from Siaya Oswago was in there as the CEO -the main guy, and he had frenchies & canadanians - selling us those damn kits that failed. Mutunga and supreme court judges were his people - he stoned walled Kibaki appointment. He had parliament and the speaker.

Now he has nothing. He is coming with clean pair of hands. Hoping Jubilee duo will play with clean hands and hand him turkana oil, SGR and all the billions

Hii ujinga ni high class. I am increasingly looking at 65% drubbing.

Take it from me..NO RAILA poddle will be in IEBC. They are either going to be neutral or jubilee leaning. Gen Waweru's NSIS & Duale will handle the details.

Those are old and tired Jubilee talking points. We have had Supreme Court Judges in the US who were appointed by Liberal Presidents turn in to Conservative Hacks loved by the Right Wing Whackos. The fact that Raila appointed commissioners and therefore he owns them and they should have handed him the election is frankly speaking a very primitive argument not worthy of you.

Like it has been stated before, Raila did not appoint his commissioners and we hope Uhuru does not begin to look for his personal advocate like Kibaki did with Kihara Muttu (RIH) May He Rot in Hell). These are public servants from who efficiency and impartiality is expected. They failed and we know why.

They were already corrupt when Uhuru bribed them heavily to tilt the election in his favor. They took certain decisions that allowed Uhuru to steal the elections. Such things like sharing ONE SERVER with Uhuru's party can only be overlooked by you.

We know about meetings held with Gen Karangi and the threats made to journalists and TVs not to broadcast the real results until they were doctored. Raila had no say in what the corrupt or Threatened did.

But keep your eyes open this time.

[Omollo]

What you are accusing Raila and CORD is naivete. I am saying it is not naivete but a belief in certain core principals.

Now allow me to let you in on a secret: That naivete is GONE for good. You rig you suffer for it. You want war you will get it. There will be no spectators listening to and watching sponsored "Accept and Move On" crap or "Uwiyano" with bad swahili spelling. If Uhuru wants to rig elections he better have the stomach for it because we are ready Pundit.

But we are sure that won't happen. We have put in place mechanisms to tame that. We have so much goodwill even from Uhuru's own people who continue to bank roll many of our activities on the ground we are shocked (especially Omollo).
 

Its the money that will win or lose this election Pundit. We have our eyes on the Eurobond. If that comes in and we don't stop it we are done. When you meet Ruto tell him we know they have not started using the Eurobond.

Hope spring eternal. Kibaki was basically a good ajua player. UhuRuto are excellent chess players. Ask the ICC. Raila's Caroli Omondi sat in the panel that interviewed IEBC commisioners, his man from Siaya Oswago was in there as the CEO -the main guy, and he had frenchies & canadanians - selling us those damn kits that failed. Mutunga and supreme court judges were his people - he stoned walled Kibaki appointment. He had parliament and the speaker.

Now he has nothing. He is coming with clean pair of hands. Hoping Jubilee duo will play with clean hands and hand him turkana oil, SGR and all the billions

Hii ujinga ni high class. I am increasingly looking at 65% drubbing.

Take it from me..NO RAILA poddle will be in IEBC. They are either going to be neutral or jubilee leaning. Gen Waweru's NSIS & Duale will handle the details.

[Kichwa]

[Kichwa]

Omollo, It's obvious that the Ruto side of Jubilee is not enthusiastic about the IEBC reform deal. Ruto is unusually quiet about it. They feel betrayed because Ruto knows now that he cannot win in 2022 without the unfair advantage that they had in 2013. He believes ouru is giving up the "store". That is the reason why RV Pundit is putting up a brave face by downplaying the the IEBC reform deal but deep down the Ruto wing is very nervous that the okuyu wing of Jubilee has started to sell them out. Its just a matter of time before this "marriage made in heaven" which was supposed to last 100 years starts to crumble.  Ever since the 2013 stolen elections they have been crowing as if they are Kenya's electoral geniuses. Who would have thought just a few months ago that stealing presidential elections in Kenya may become a thing of the past in our lifetime. This must be very scary to someone like Ruto who was hoping to "win" the presidency in 2022 with the fake "tyranny of numbers".

What you are accusing Raila and CORD is naivete. I am saying it is not naivete but a belief in certain core principals.

Now allow me to let you in on a secret: That naivete is GONE for good. You rig you suffer for it. You want war you will get it. There will be no spectators listening to and watching sponsored "Accept and Move On" crap or "Uwiyano" with bad swahili spelling. If Uhuru wants to rig elections he better have the stomach for it because we are ready Pundit.

But we are sure that won't happen. We have put in place mechanisms to tame that. We have so much goodwill even from Uhuru's own people who continue to bank roll many of our activities on the ground we are shocked (especially Omollo).
 

Its the money that will win or lose this election Pundit. We have our eyes on the Eurobond. If that comes in and we don't stop it we are done. When you meet Ruto tell him we know they have not started using the Eurobond.

Hope spring eternal. Kibaki was basically a good ajua player. UhuRuto are excellent chess players. Ask the ICC. Raila's Caroli Omondi sat in the panel that interviewed IEBC commisioners, his man from Siaya Oswago was in there as the CEO -the main guy, and he had frenchies & canadanians - selling us those damn kits that failed. Mutunga and supreme court judges were his people - he stoned walled Kibaki appointment. He had parliament and the speaker.

Now he has nothing. He is coming with clean pair of hands. Hoping Jubilee duo will play with clean hands and hand him turkana oil, SGR and all the billions

Hii ujinga ni high class. I am increasingly looking at 65% drubbing.

Take it from me..NO RAILA poddle will be in IEBC. They are either going to be neutral or jubilee leaning. Gen Waweru's NSIS & Duale will handle the details.

[RV Pundit]

Orengo, Omollo and you are the main reason why Raila is not any closer to power 40 or is it 60 yrs later. CORD are putting a brave face after they were shafted sagana style. Yesterday I read that churches & religious bodies (dominated by pro-gov folks) will make the selection of 11 guys. And Uhuru will drop 4 he doesn't like & end up with 7 guys. Tell me of any worst deal. Orengo here acknolwedge that ODM had 6 guys in the current IEBC..and now they are going to get zero (0). There is no new registration. Some audit firm will do audit the list - using what?. And there is no constitutional ammendment -mean all the tech will remain provisional.

This is not naivety but stupidity. We hear Raila and CORD are livid after Orengo once again shafted them. Raila just moved from the frying pan to the fire. He cannot backtrack. He has given Uhuru the opportunity to appoint IEBC and secretariat that is pro-Jubilee and has won the legitimacy he needs for 2017-2022.

Omollo, It's obvious that the Ruto side of Jubilee is not enthusiastic about the IEBC reform deal. Ruto is unusually quiet about it. They feel betrayed because Ruto knows now that he cannot win in 2022 without the unfair advantage that they had in 2013. He believes ouru is giving up the "store". That is the reason why RV Pundit is putting up a brave face by downplaying the the IEBC reform deal but deep down the Ruto wing is very nervous that the okuyu wing of Jubilee has started to sell them out. Its just a matter of time before this "marriage made in heaven" which was supposed to last 100 years starts to crumble.  Ever since the 2013 stolen elections they have been crowing as if they are Kenya's electoral geniuses. Who would have thought just a few months ago that stealing presidential elections in Kenya may become a thing of the past in our lifetime. This must be very scary to someone like Ruto who was hoping to "win" the presidency in 2022 with the fake "tyranny of numbers".

[Kichwa]

The notion that Orengo is the reason why Raila is not president is too ridiculous to even merit a response. The 2013 election result got into your head. It was just one election my friend, no reason to be arrogant about the future.

[Omollo]

Here we go again.

Let me try to be fairly simple and clear:

1. A system that depends on friendly, biased individuals to deliver an uncontaminated result is NOT worth the name
2. Like I said before when you claimed that Raila appointed commissioners who somehow failed to rig elections in his favor, IEBC commissioners are not supposed nor expected to be an individuals' loyalists
3. There is no mechanism that can test the loyalty of any individual and even if there was, it could not possibly predict his behavior beyond the initial sycophancy intended to elicit support for appointment. If there was such a thing Ababu Namwamba would never have made it to SG for ODM
4. The concentration of reforms aimed at making elections free and fair and largely closed the small but fatal loopholes in the system.

I understand that a Ruto supporter - who fought tooth and nail against the talks - you would naturally want to denigrate the deal. Raila and Ruto come from two different worlds. Ruto would wish to grab every advantage and place his opponents at disadvantage as long as he appears to gain. This he would do regardless of the damage it would cause the entire country.

Raila on the other hand is guided by what is best for the country and not necessarily himself or his family.

Hence I usually say if Raila and Ruto were caught up in the wilderness and found a small wooden cottage with just two eggs inside, any time Ruto felt hungry he would create a diversion by sending Raila to fetch firewood while he set the cottage on fire to get enough heat to warm his egg and eat it. He may even eat Raila,s egg. That,, Pundit is the difference.

I will explain further after the deal is passed in parliament.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I agree with everything Orengo says here.  Except the notion that it is realistic to have these requirements in place in 2017.  They should shoot for a fool proof 2022 election.  Guarantee that by 2022, Kenyans will have the leaders they voted for.  Treat 2017 as a trial run to remove the kinks.  If they divorce the changes from Raila, and his state house ambition, it stands a better chance of delivering a system that is not likely to be abused.

[Omollo]

The Jubilee - CORD talks sent Ruto reeling. He got shafted badly.

We know that diplomats told Uhuru to forget Ruto's advice as he (Uhuru) is The President and not Co-President. So the decision was made and when Ruto tried to cause trouble, his allowance was cut off to ground him so he wouldn't go around the country inciting.

He got the money flow restored after the deal was in the box. Raila and Uhuru agreed to tame the extremists on both sides. We didn't have any trouble makers on our side except for a mole and having got rid of Namwamba (Ruto's plant) it was easy sailing on our side.

For Uhuru there was just one trouble maker - Ruto. We sent some our usual advice (which vooke once called genius) and saw him grounded. Who once said revenge is best served cold?

About Ruto in 2022: Anybody with half a cell of a brain would tell you it is DOA. In fact it is Dead Long BEFORE arrival (DLBA).

Pundit when questioned said that Ruto was following the Moi approach. I had a good laugh with my daughter about it because we had just been discussing it with a visitor. That plan would on work if you recreate the same 1978 conditions.

1. You would need to set up a brutal dictatorship complete with the thought police, dungeons and gulags
2. You would need a constitution so opaque only a failed law graduate from a South African university serving as Attorney General could, well, like a witchdoctor, divine it on a take it or leave basis. Interpretation would completely out of question.
3. You would need courts that take orders from the government and sometimes have judgments written by government friendly advocates for them to read in court making sure no full stop or comma is omitted
4. You would need to get rid of social media, close all TV and radio stations and leave only KBC. Like we recently saw in Turkey that is beyond impossible. It is not doable. Nowhere can it happen not even China. There is just too much technology out there to beat any attempts. Just ask the Chinese government

I could go on and on. The bottom line is that in the unlikely event Uhuru is reelected, Uhuru will lose his power by 2021. A new Kikuyu alliance with some sycophant will emerge. Kikuyus will vote for it.

My crystal ball tells me that Uhuru will seek to keep it in the family by sponsoring either brother or son.

Omollo, It's obvious that the Ruto side of Jubilee is not enthusiastic about the IEBC reform deal. Ruto is unusually quiet about it. They feel betrayed because Ruto knows now that he cannot win in 2022 without the unfair advantage that they had in 2013. He believes ouru is giving up the "store". That is the reason why RV Pundit is putting up a brave face by downplaying the the IEBC reform deal but deep down the Ruto wing is very nervous that the okuyu wing of Jubilee has started to sell them out. Its just a matter of time before this "marriage made in heaven" which was supposed to last 100 years starts to crumble.  Ever since the 2013 stolen elections they have been crowing as if they are Kenya's electoral geniuses. Who would have thought just a few months ago that stealing presidential elections in Kenya may become a thing of the past in our lifetime. This must be very scary to someone like Ruto who was hoping to "win" the presidency in 2022 with the fake "tyranny of numbers".

[Kichwa]

I also agree that 2017 maybe too close to have everything in place but I think it can be pulled off. In the USA they said that 2023 was the most realistic year for a minority to be president but they pulled it off in 2008, way a head of schedule.  In Kenya 2022 is the most realistic year for the progressives to finally pull it off but they may pull it off in 2017.  I once did something as a dry-run thinking that the next trial was the most realistic time but I pulled it off.  The progressives should therefore go into 2017 full throttle but if they do not pull-it off then they have 2022 to finish the job.  I always say that Kenya's 50 years at the hands of conservatives is very short in historical terms and it should not discourage the progressives because they have a chance to make Ouru the last conservative president.  Ruto does not have a path to victory on his own, without Ouru and the infrastructure of stealing elections that is being systematically dismantled with the help of those who built it. This is a huge blow to Ruto 2022.


I agree with everything Orengo says here.  Except the notion that it is realistic to have these requirements in place in 2017.  They should shoot for a fool proof 2022 election.  Guarantee that by 2022, Kenyans will have the leaders they voted for.  Treat 2017 as a trial run to remove the kinks.  If they divorce the changes from Raila, and his state house ambition, it stands a better chance of delivering a system that is not likely to be abused.
[/quote]

[Kichwa]

I also agree that 2017 maybe too close to have everything in place but I think it can be pulled off. In the USA they said that 2023 was the most realistic year for a minority to be president but they pulled it off in 2008, way a head of schedule.  In Kenya 2022 is the most realistic year for the progressives to finally pull it off but they may pull it off in 2017.  I once did something as a dry-run thinking that the next trial was the most realistic time but I pulled it off on the dry-run.  The progressives should therefore go into 2017 full throttle but if they do not pull-it off then they have 2022 to finish the job.  I always say that Kenya's 50 years at the hands of conservatives is very short in historical terms and it should not discourage the progressives because they have a chance to make Ouru the last conservative president. He is the last of the Mohicans (remember the photo entitled "power never left this room" featuring Jomo, Moi, Kibaki and Ouru as a little boy).  Ruto  does not have a path to victory on his own, without Ouru and the infrastructure of stealing elections that is being systematically dismantled with the help of those who built it. This is a huge blow to Ruto 2022 and we may now start to see his arrogance and that of his supporters take a nose dive.


I agree with everything Orengo says here.  Except the notion that it is realistic to have these requirements in place in 2017.  They should shoot for a fool proof 2022 election.  Guarantee that by 2022, Kenyans will have the leaders they voted for.  Treat 2017 as a trial run to remove the kinks.  If they divorce the changes from Raila, and his state house ambition, it stands a better chance of delivering a system that is not likely to be abused.

[/quote]

[RV Pundit]

This is surreal. So Ruto lost so badly Mbadi, Midiwo, CORD brigade,civil society and name them are complaining for Ruto. This is beyond laughable. It repeat of history. Raila ran to Sagana and come back proclaiming from hills about a deal -before we end up with 5yrs of loud complaining. And that when Ruto had told him about irreducible minimum and need to have ministiries that really define having power...anyway before long...constitution came..Raila rans with it and before long...OKOA kenya nonsense for 4yrs..culminating in 1.7m signatures. The MOU btw Raila and Kibaki was slightly better than MaDVD & Uhuru MOU that last 2 weeks . Raila one lasted a month.

I can go on and on...and on...but I am pretty sure you'll find a way to twist this. Ruto on the contrary is negotiator per excellence. That is why his MOU with UHuru is the most balanced and there is zero complain.Ruto once told us he learnt negotiation from his days selling chicken then cows in Eldoret. You've to known how to get the best price. Don't show your hand. That is something Raila doesn't know.

I still cannot believe the capitulation. So after 5 yrs complaining about IEBC commisoners - turns out they were powerless . Uhuru get to appoint 7 guys he likes and then the orengo "systems" will kick in.I don't believe IEBC rigged the elections - but I was expecting more than this.

[Kichwa]

Raila's political history cannot be reduced to your warped version of what happened at Sagana in 2008.  Raila's political history starts much earlier than Sagana and it includes remarkable victories for Kenya's progressive movement: 1) the end one party system; 2) presidential term limits; 3) end of political torture and detention without trial; 4) the death of Kanu domination and dictatorship (baba na mama; 6) Devolution; 7) new Katiba-which Ruto opposed; and now 7) electoral reforms.

It is true that the progressive forces suffered set backs in 2007 and 2013 but in historical terms 10 years is nothing.  Any serious movement will always suffer set backs and historians will be much kinder to Raila's legacy than you are because facts are stubborn.  Of course Raila did not do it  all alone but he is the undisputed leader of the progressive movement in Kenya and  I dare you to name anyone who has sacrificed more and  consistently been a leader of the progressive movement longer than Raila through thick and thin. Give credit where one is due.

This is surreal. So Ruto lost so badly Mbadi, Midiwo, CORD brigade,civil society and name them are complaining for Ruto. This is beyond laughable. It repeat of history. Raila ran to Sagana and come back proclaiming from hills about a deal -before we end up with 5yrs of loud complaining. And that when Ruto had told him about irreducible minimum and need to have ministiries that really define having power...anyway before long...constitution came..Raila rans with it and before long...OKOA kenya nonsense for 4yrs..culminating in 1.7m signatures. The MOU btw Raila and Kibaki was slightly better than MaDVD & Uhuru MOU that last 2 weeks . Raila one lasted a month.

I can go on and on...and on...but I am pretty sure you'll find a way to twist this. Ruto on the contrary is negotiator per excellence. That is why his MOU with UHuru is the most balanced and there is zero complain.Ruto once told us he learnt negotiation from his days selling chicken then cows in Eldoret. You've to known how to get the best price. Don't show your hand. That is something Raila doesn't know.

I still cannot believe the capitulation. So after 5 yrs complaining about IEBC commisoners - turns out they were powerless

[RV Pundit]

Raila is in this for power. And he doesn't look like he is getting closer than when he started in 82. You can call him the leader of progressive but those of us who've seen him run gov would call him a feckless reckless moron whom Kibaki reduced to tears and cannot ran a shop. Ask Orengo, Miguna and anybody whose be up close with the leader of progressive.

Uhuru has already won 2017. That much I can read from you guys - you've thrown in the towels - after being take to cleaners by Jubilee. I welcome you to 2022 when the son of a gun William Ruto will school you in politics 101. The art of war. The art of negotiation. You just have to see how Ruto & Uhuru are running the show to realize they're on another level.

Raila's political history cannot be reduced to your warped version of what happened at Sagana in 2008.  Raila's political history starts much earlier than Sagana and it includes remarkable victories for Kenya's progressive movement: 1) the end one party system; 2) presidential term limits; 3) end of political torture and detention without trial; 4) the death of Kanu domination and dictatorship (baba na mama; 6) Devolution; 7) new Katiba-which Ruto opposed; and now 7) electoral reforms.

It is true that the progressive forces suffered set backs in 2007 and 2013 but in historical terms 10 years is nothing.  Any serious movement will always suffer set backs and historians will be much kinder to Raila's legacy than you are because facts are stubborn.  Of course Raila did not do it  all alone but he is the undisputed leader of the progressive movement in Kenya and  I dare you to name anyone who has sacrificed more and  consistently been a leader of the progressive movement longer than Raila through thick and thin. Give credit where one is due.

[Kichwa]

When you talk about political power what do you really mean?  Political power is not confined to those who hold office.   Raila is not holding any office but he has more political power than your man Ruto. In political and historical terms Kibaki is nothing. If he dies in South Africa today, he will be buried quietly and forgotten.  Kibaki missed a huge opportunity to make an everlasting legacy for himself in 2002 when he reneged on the MOU.  Your version of Kenya's political history is confined to Ruto and is therefore nothing to even dignify with a thoughtful response.

Raila is in this for power. And he doesn't look like he is getting closer than when he started in 82. You can call him the leader of progressive but those of us who've seen him run gov would call him a feckless reckless moron whom Kibaki reduced to tears and cannot ran a shop. Ask Orengo, Miguna and anybody whose be up close with the leader of progressive.

Uhuru has already won 2017. That much I can read from you guys - you've thrown in the towels - after being take to cleaners by Jubilee. I welcome you to 2022 when the son of a gun William Ruto will school you in politics 101. The art of war. The art of negotiation. You just have to see how Ruto & Uhuru are running the show to realize they're on another level.

Raila's political history cannot be reduced to your warped version of what happened at Sagana in 2008.  Raila's political history starts much earlier than Sagana and it includes remarkable victories for Kenya's progressive movement: 1) the end one party system; 2) presidential term limits; 3) end of political torture and detention without trial; 4) the death of Kanu domination and dictatorship (baba na mama; 6) Devolution; 7) new Katiba-which Ruto opposed; and now 7) electoral reforms.

It is true that the progressive forces suffered set backs in 2007 and 2013 but in historical terms 10 years is nothing.  Any serious movement will always suffer set backs and historians will be much kinder to Raila's legacy than you are because facts are stubborn.  Of course Raila did not do it  all alone but he is the undisputed leader of the progressive movement in Kenya and  I dare you to name anyone who has sacrificed more and  consistently been a leader of the progressive movement longer than Raila through thick and thin. Give credit where one is due.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I also agree that 2017 maybe too close to have everything in place but I think it can be pulled off. In the USA they said that 2023 was the most realistic year for a minority to be president but they pulled it off in 2008, way a head of schedule.  In Kenya 2022 is the most realistic year for the progressives to finally pull it off but they may pull it off in 2017.  I once did something as a dry-run thinking that the next trial was the most realistic time but I pulled it off on the dry-run.  The progressives should therefore go into 2017 full throttle but if they do not pull-it off then they have 2022 to finish the job.  I always say that Kenya's 50 years at the hands of conservatives is very short in historical terms and it should not discourage the progressives because they have a chance to make Ouru the last conservative president. He is the last of the Mohicans (remember the photo entitled "power never left this room" featuring Jomo, Moi, Kibaki and Ouru as a little boy).  Ruto  does not have a path to victory on his own, without Ouru and the infrastructure of stealing elections that is being systematically dismantled with the help of those who built it. This is a huge blow to Ruto 2022 and we may now start to see his arrogance and that of his supporters take a nose dive.


I agree with everything Orengo says here.  Except the notion that it is realistic to have these requirements in place in 2017.  They should shoot for a fool proof 2022 election.  Guarantee that by 2022, Kenyans will have the leaders they voted for.  Treat 2017 as a trial run to remove the kinks.  If they divorce the changes from Raila, and his state house ambition, it stands a better chance of delivering a system that is not likely to be abused.

They should go full throttle no question.  Even if they don't win, they should focus on, as you say, putting the infrastructure of electoral fraud to bed.  I am still yet to wrap my head around why eliminating rigging as an option makes some uneasy.

[Empedocles]

Raila is a bad negotiator. The endgame of all the demos was just getting a dialogue. This is now very clear. I see CORD appendix (civil society) are also crying foul. I ask one again - what was the endgame? I don't see any change! Some a reputable firm will clean the register - big deal - I think the register is pretty clean.

The biggest winner here are Jubilee and Kenyans..IEBC after CORD endless throwing of mud and chickengate were damaged goods and needed to go..and this talks may give us the same body with confidence of everyone..CORD cannot cry foul when they get a drubbing of their life next year.

Those like me that believe IEBC didn't rig the last election couldn't be any happier.

You hit the nail squarely on the head.

https://www.facebook.com/GovernorMigunaMiguna/posts/541086029414115