Nightclub Shooting Orlando

[Empedocles]

• Tweet

At least 50 confirmed killed!

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Omar Mateen.  Representing the religion of peace.

[veritas]

Not sure if he did it. He's got no history training with ISIS. Not easy shooting that many people in the dark. I had a hunch weeks back of a shooting in Florida at a gay club similar to the Virginia Tech shooting. It compelled me to dote all over the internet searching for clues. Even over the weekend I kept having flashes of that nightclub "pavement" and gunshots. At one point I had to stop to breath while purchasing my kale at the local green grocer because I felt extremely queasy. I was sick all night and couldn't get up this morning. If I had a hunch it means it was pre-meditated by a group.

[Real P]

Omar Mateen.  Representing the religion of peace.

[Real P]

Not sure if he did it. He's got no history training with ISIS. Not easy shooting that many people in the dark. I had a hunch weeks back of a shooting in Florida at a gay club similar to the Virginia Tech shooting. It compelled me to dote all over the internet searching for clues. Even over the weekend I kept having flashes of that nightclub "pavement" and gunshots. At one point I had to stop to breath while purchasing my kale at the local green grocer because I felt extremely queasy. I was sick all night and couldn't get up this morning. If I had a hunch it means it was pre-meditated by a group.

This was an Orlando gay club that this radical focused his rage, vitriol and hatred on. Homosexuality is anathema in the Muslim world, they really reject it and its the death penalty in some Middle Eastern countries. I would say that it is safe bet to say that this particular mass murderer's hate towards homosexuals was fueled by his religion and most likely upbringing. In news he is identified as second generation immigrant from Afghan background, so he is most likely grown his hateful self in USA and found ISIS's hateful world view corresponding with that hate, which has lead to his world view become more and more radicalized and given him motivation to plan and carry out his attack against those that he hates.

[veritas]

The shooting lasted about 3 minutes apparently. Over a hundred bullets were shot in that time span. Shots coming from everywhere. Facts don't amount to one person with no combat experience armed with one pistol.

The fact the FBI questioned him on 2 known occasions for no crimes committed doesn't add up.

The fact there was no record at all of his hate for gays or America in the deep web and in his working life doesn't add up. He's got no history to back his actions. He was born in New York, not some homophobic state or Islamic cloth. He was neither a radical or known criminal. He doesn't fit the profile of a mass murderer other than the typical Islamic racial angle.

[Real P]

The shooting lasted about 3 minutes apparently. Over a hundred bullets were shot in that time span. Shots coming from everywhere. Facts don't amount to one person with no combat experience armed with one pistol.

He had the dreaded AR-15s with high ammo capacity and semi auto capability plus a background in law enforcement.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/12/the-gun-used-in-the-orlando-shooting-is-becoming-mass-shooters-weapon-of-choice/

The fact the FBI questioned him on 2 known occasions for no crimes committed doesn't add up.
The fact there was no record at all of his hate for gays or America in the deep web and in his working life doesn't add up. He's got no history to back his actions. He was born in New York, not some homophobic state or Islamic cloth. He was neither a radical or known criminal. He doesn't fit the profile of a mass murderer other than the typical Islamic racial angle.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-nightclub-shooting-live-omar-mateen-got-very-angry-seeing-two-1465749495-htmlstory.html

Omar Mateen's father, Mir Seddique, spoke to NBC News about the shooting . "This had nothing to do with religion," he told the network. "We were in downtown Miami, Bayside, people were playing music. And he saw two men kissing each other in front of his wife and kid and he got very angry," Seddique told NBC. "They were kissing each other and touching each other and he said, 'Look at that. In front of my son they are doing that.' And then we were in the men's bathroom and men were kissing each other."

[veritas]

He was a security officer untrained on assault rifles. Even if he was a pro, killing that many people in that time span with that rifle isn't possible. Realistic would be a dozen. 50 isn't statistically possible by one shooter.

He got angry when he saw men kissing. It still doesn't warrant a typical premeditated killing unless he had some personal history of assaulting homosexuals. Going from disapproval to mass murder is unlikely.

To condition someone into a mass murderer takes zeal. If not religion, for love, depression, suicide, some mental disorder, this guy doesn't fit the profile other than being some random Islamic guy.

[Empedocles]

He was a security officer untrained on assault rifles. Even if he was a pro, killing that many people in that time span with that rifle isn't possible. Realistic would be a dozen. 50 isn't statistically possible by one shooter.

He got angry when he saw men kissing. It still doesn't warrant a typical premeditated killing unless he had some personal history of assaulting homosexuals. Going from disapproval to mass murder is unlikely.

To condition someone into a mass murderer takes zeal. If not religion, for love, depression, suicide, some mental disorder, this guy doesn't fit the profile other than being some random Islamic guy.

He was trained, according to Al Jazeera:

Al Jazeera's Andy Gallacher, reporting from Orlando, noted that Mateen worked as a security guard.

He said that to get the job, gun laws require Mateen to train with weapons, including fulfilling the required eight hours on a shooting range.

In a statement sent to the Palm Beach Post, security company G4S confirmed his employment.

"We are shocked and saddened by the tragic event that occurred at the Orlando nightclub. We can confirm that Omar Mateen had been employed with G4S since September 10, 2007," the company said.

"We are cooperating fully with all law enforcement authorities, including the FBI, as they conduct their investigation. Our thoughts and prayers are with all of the friends, families and people affected by this unspeakable tragedy."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-160612195121131.html[/quote]

And he also seems to have a history:

    An ex-co-worker told NBC News that Mateen was racist, belligerent and "toxic."

    His father told NBC News his son was enraged after recently seeing a same-sex couple kissing in front of his family, an event that could have set him off.

    In 2013, Mateen was interviewed twice by federal agents after co-workers reported that he made "inflammatory" comments to them about radical Islamic propaganda. The following year, the FBI looked at him again because of ties with an American who traveled to the Middle East to become a suicide bomber.

    Law enforcement sources told NBC News he swore allegiance to the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, in a 911 call moments before the rampage at Pulse.

    There's no indication that Mateen was in touch with terrorists overseas or that the attack was directed by someone else, a law enforcement officials told NBC News. Nor is there evidence that anyone helped or encouraged him, several officials said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/terror-hate-what-motivated-orlando-nightclub-shooter-n590496

I doubt there's a valid conspiracy theory out there.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

veritas,

AR-15 bullets slice right through targets.  Especially in a crowded room.  He may not need to hit 50 individual targets to kill 50.

Motives aside, America needs to do something about its sick relationship with guns in general.  Omar would have had a more difficult time getting his hands on an assault rifle in Germany, UK etc.

All the data supports a strong correlation between gun ownership and gun homicides.  The idea of being killed in a public place by some depressed nut with a military grade weapon is no longer academic.

[veritas]

Security guards don't carry real.guns unless he was a high up security guard with police or military training. Security companies don't take the risk of arming any ordinary Joes especially one with Arab roots. He had no training.

History means committed a crime, had a history of mental disorders if not brainwashed into religious zeal. A toxic belligerant work colleague qualifies everyone. He had no history.

[veritas]

veritas,

AR-15 bullets slice right through targets.  Especially in a crowded room.  He may not need to hit 50 individual targets to kill 50.

Motives aside, America needs to do something about its sick relationship with guns in general.  Omar would have had a more difficult time getting his hands on an assault rifle in Germany, UK etc.

All the data supports a strong correlation between gun ownership and gun homicides.  The idea of being killed in a public place by some depressed nut with a military grade weapon is no longer academic.

Unless he was wearing a harness flying & shooting, or everyone on the dance floor was perfectly aligned doing some coordinated samba move, it just isn't possible to gun down that many bodies in random proximities.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

veritas,

AR-15 bullets slice right through targets.  Especially in a crowded room.  He may not need to hit 50 individual targets to kill 50.

Motives aside, America needs to do something about its sick relationship with guns in general.  Omar would have had a more difficult time getting his hands on an assault rifle in Germany, UK etc.

All the data supports a strong correlation between gun ownership and gun homicides.  The idea of being killed in a public place by some depressed nut with a military grade weapon is no longer academic.

Unless he was wearing a harness flying & shooting, or everyone on the dance floor was perfectly aligned doing some coordinated samba move, it just isn't possible to gun down that many bodies in random proximities.

It's an automatic.  With some aim, you can mow down a crowd.  The victims may not die immediately; but in this case, help did not get to them in time because authorities suspected he had planted some gadget.  They had to send in bots to verify as people bled to death.

[Empedocles]

Unless he was wearing a harness flying & shooting, or everyone on the dance floor was perfectly aligned doing some coordinated samba move, it just isn't possible to gun down that many bodies in random proximities.

The AR-15 assault weapon was used in a crowded club. Key word here is "crowded".

Here's how fast it shoots bullets (skip to 5:20):

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Unless he was wearing a harness flying & shooting, or everyone on the dance floor was perfectly aligned doing some coordinated samba move, it just isn't possible to gun down that many bodies in random proximities.

The AR-15 assault weapon was used in a crowded club. Key word here is "crowded".

Here's how fast it shoots bullets (skip to 5:20):

Here is a former Presidential candidate cooking bacon with one.

Here is President Comacho's address to Congress.

[Real P]

veritas,

AR-15 bullets slice right through targets.  Especially in a crowded room.  He may not need to hit 50 individual targets to kill 50.

Motives aside, America needs to do something about its sick relationship with guns in general.  Omar would have had a more difficult time getting his hands on an assault rifle in Germany, UK etc.

All the data supports a strong correlation between gun ownership and gun homicides.  The idea of being killed in a public place by some depressed nut with a military grade weapon is no longer academic.

Unless he was wearing a harness flying & shooting, or everyone on the dance floor was perfectly aligned doing some coordinated samba move, it just isn't possible to gun down that many bodies in random proximities.

Veritas -

It may seem an inordinate number but most clubs normally have lots of people packed into a tight space....so that number can be reasonable.

[MOON Ki]

Motives aside, America needs to do something about its sick relationship with guns in general.  Omar would have had a more difficult time getting his hands on an assault rifle in Germany, UK etc.

I am often amazed at how easily Americans can play around with guns and bullets.   Many years ago, I visited a friend in the Mid-West who proudly showed me one heck of a private armory.   (When I asked, he couldn't quite say what it was for. It seems that one can buy even assault rifles for "target practice"; but if that is the practice, what is the real target?) And in just the last month a couple of friends have posted "interesting" photos/videos on Facebook: In one, my friend was proudly showing his Glocks while at a coffee place ... "cowboy/western" style on his hips, as is permitted by the "open-carry laws" of  his state (Arizona).     In another, a friend in Texas showed his 9-year-old in early-morning target-practice. 

At the other extreme is Japan, where even hardened criminals (Yakuza level) consider that having a gun is not worth the bother.   Knife into the guts,  brick to the head ..... are "OK"; but guns get the coppers really worked up, and that's not good for business.   Legally getting a gun there requires all sorts of checks, including an examination by a shrink, and these have to be repeated at regular intervals.     Once one has a gun and some ammo, they are subject to random police checks, and these checks include a requirement that one account for all ammo.   And "misuse" is not taken lightly, which sometimes leads to bizarre cases: I recall one case in which a police officer committed suicide using his official gun.    In other places, with such a tragedy, that would have been the end of it.     In Japan, he was prosecuted posthumously for "improper and illegal use of a firearm".     Supposedly to send a message to the public ...

[veritas]

Have any of you mowed down a sack of potatoes? As I said, unless they were all doing some coordinated samba there's just no way in that time span he got through the door with that gun and made his way to the dance floor, wedged himself among poking gays and decided this is how I'm going to exit the world. I want my child who I don't happen to care about remember me like this. It's not the kind of martyrdom consistent with ISIS honor pride etc. or gay hater. It's however consistent with what an ignorant group of whites would conjure up. I'm not falling for the ruse.

[veritas]

Not only the bouncers not frisk down a guy who looked to be wearing a mere jumper to conceal his weapon in that CNN footage, but there's no security footage inside and outside the club. That's impossible.

[veritas]

Good article:

The science doesn't add up.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/06/12/orlando/