ICC Manenos: Karua vs Moses Kuria

[Real P]

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A few years ago, no Kikuyu would see eye to eye with William Ruto.

Kyuks are now willing to kill each other over Ruto

Can someone pass me some popcorn please?

http://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Apologise-or-see-you-in-court--Karua-tells-Moses-Kuria/-/1064/2879170/-/89u6dhz/-/index.html

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

The whole saga about ICC is ugly on many levels.  In a normal society, encouraging witnesses to testify to a horrific crime is a good thing.

[RV Pundit]

Karua hatred for Ruto is enormous!

[Kadudu]

Are you sure it is only Karua?
If it were only her then the situation would be manageble but it's not.

Karua hatred for Ruto is enormous!

[Real P]

The whole saga about ICC is ugly on many levels.  In a normal society, encouraging witnesses to testify to a horrific crime is a good thing.

The word ugly is an understatement. Kibaki and Odinga should be answering to Kenyans and not mbilikimo. Even after a mob of Nandis setting a Church on Fire Killing dozens of Kyuks, they are still kissing Ruto's behind

[Reticent Solipsist]

There goes blabber mouth Kuria who can't resist the chance to turn any slip into a cause for the Boss. Folks, now here's the thing -- the usually disorganized and inept CORD brigade should exploit this freebie for what's it's worth: incessantly hammer away and draw the link between Kuria and the Boss and remind the good people in the Rift Valley that the genesis of Ruto's problems at the ICC was part of a grand plan borne of a cabal that wanted to see Uhuru at the helm.

As for impeaching Uhuru and such like crap, is Raila that impetuous?

[RV Pundit]

I bet you also do. What situation is there to manage. Ruto becoming PORK? I think all Ruto need to do is convince Uhuru to "resign' for him a few months before 2022..and he get PORK. His best bet remain with sticking and being loyal to Uhuru...and ink a deal that ensures Uhuru resign six or so months to election...and let Ruto go to 2022 as PORK already.

Are you sure it is only Karua?
If it were only her then the situation would be manageble but it's not.

[Kadudu]

I have no reason to hate Ruto apart from his too open corrupt ways. He should learn kuiba in camouflage like his boss in the SGR saga.
In the case of ICC I never heard of any romours linking Ruto to any PEV planning. In the case of Uhuru it is very different and I am convinced Uhuru is guilty as was charged and perhaps commited many more sins than ICC could uncover.
I seriously doubt if Ruto will ever become PORK. I have personally big reservations towards him and his appetite to accumulate what others have done in the last 50 years he wants to do in 5 years. Same doubts are also deep in Central Kenya only they believe the plight of "their" people during PEV was greatly because of Ruto. These people will play ball for now as they need RV votes in 2017 but thereafter it will be a different game altogether.
Watch this space.

I bet you also do. What situation is there to manage. Ruto becoming PORK? I think all Ruto need to do is convince Uhuru to "resign' for him a few months before 2022..and he get PORK. His best bet remain with sticking and being loyal to Uhuru...and ink a deal that ensures Uhuru resign six or so months to election...and let Ruto go to 2022 as PORK already.

Are you sure it is only Karua?
If it were only her then the situation would be manageble but it's not.

[RV Pundit]

You make it sound like some people were more wronged than others. There are no special victims. We are all victims. RV have litany of accusation they can lay on Uhuru, Kikuyu leaders and kikuyu people...and other of course..who to this day continue to till..the land of their forefathers. Ruto didn't cause that..Jomo (uhuru dear father) engineered it. Luo and Luhya have beef with Moi and Ruto. Kalenjin have beef with Jaramogi and Masinde Muliro also taking their land. Didn't kalenjin not die or got displaced during PEV. They did. Did they not suffer during Raila mau manenos..they did. Cord have beef with Ruto. We have beef with Raila. Everyone got beef.

You also make it sound like there are "more" and "less" corrupt folks. You are either clean or corrupt. All our politicians seem to be corrupt. Just like most kenyans are very corrupt. Juzi I was swindled by my own bro!

Let stop pretending like there are saints and devils in kenya. We are all devils. We all went to war. We all have sin and come short of "god" glory.

Now that we have dealt with emotional part...we can go to strategic and tactical stuff.

For Ruto...my considered view is for him to stick with Uhuru. Ruto is still very young. He is 49 if he was indeed born in 9166! All he need to do is to keep his URP part of the bargain...get & keep 50-50.....and then make sure Uhuru somehow resign for him before 2022. He has the leverage of URP party that has more than 70 mps and millions of votes...to ensure Uhuru does that.

Kikuyu or Luo or Kalenjin whether they like or hate you are now hostages (near complete) of Raila, Ruto and Uhuru. They cannot revolt unless their leaders want them to revolt. If Uhuru want Ruto to suceed him and I think he does....then with new Katiba...it easy! Once Ruto has become a acting PORK...he wins.

Will Kikuyu stop that? mmm unless they are no longer 16% (and dropping)  of kenya.

Who is most likely to become PORK after Uhuru...most definitely William Ruto. He just has to play his cards very close to his chest.

I have no reason to hate Ruto apart from his too open corrupt ways. He should learn kuiba in camouflage like his boss in the SGR saga.
In the case of ICC I never heard of any romours linking Ruto to any PEV planning. In the case of Uhuru it is very different and I am convinced Uhuru is guilty as was charged and perhaps commited many more sins than ICC could uncover.
I seriously doubt if Ruto will ever become PORK. I have personally big reservations towards him and his appetite to accumulate what others have done in the last 50 years he wants to do in 5 years. Same doubts are also deep in Central Kenya only they believe the plight of "their" people during PEV was greatly because of Ruto. These people will play ball for now as they need RV votes in 2017 but thereafter it will be a different game altogether.
Watch this space.

[MOON Ki]

As for impeaching Uhuru and such like crap, is Raila that impetuous?

Taken as comedy, it does have something going for it.

[Reticent Solipsist]

As for impeaching Uhuru and such like crap, is Raila that impetuous?

Taken as comedy, it does have something going for it.

Raila needs to up his game or pass on the baton to Kalonzo.

And that is so sad about Kenya -- missed opportunities, leadership wise. Of this current crop of so-called Kenyan leaders -- the executive, legislature, judiciary and the ridiculous "independent commissions" very few have leadership, integrity and gravitas. Tobiko is a lackey of TNA forces; ditto Nyachae; The KRA head awaits intructions from State House; as does Boinett; Serem has no clue. Cheserem is passable; Ouko barely. Yet, as in Mobutu's Zaire, there were always the few decent ones: Justice Mumbi Ngaru, Justice Odunga, Justice Mwongo, Justice Wakis, and others who toil in anonymity.

The one public persona in Kenya who can surely pass the high bar of leadership, intelligence, integrity and gravitas, in my opinion, is the Ombudsman Otiende Amollo.

On Uhuru: he is a schmuck, unrefined and unsophisticated, the beneficiary of daddy's ill-gotten wealth. He's a guy who keeps the companions of fools [Kuria is a bosom buddy...so too Waititu] and in their midst he evidently revels... like a fish in water. And yet there are Kenyans who keep wondering how or why the ICC came a calling.

[gout]

It is true most Kibaki era Gema leaders would have even EJK'd ruto if they had anything that could stick or was said in public.... the hatred was no secret ...

I like the Reticent views on personalities heading the so called independent commissions .... Nyachae with his eye on governor seat has become dicey and with most laws being determined by parliament

Cheserem is the star so far... For instance his stand that some counties like Nairobi should internally generate enough revenues in next few years and stop getting a share of the counties share is genius and needs to be pursued despite the politics

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I don't know about Ruto's guilt or innocence in this particular case.  But I wouldn't put it past him to have been involved in organizing some of the activities.  What seems clear to me is that Ruto was in a position to put a stop to the violence in the Rift Valley before it got out of hand.  But he did not. 

[Omollo]

What is often forgotten is that Kibaki stole an election and pre-organized murder by the police. In places like Kisumu the police (Grace Kaindi) routinely murdered people. The initial killings by the police in RV fizzled in the face of overwhelming counter measures.

If Ruto organized it, then he is as much a "hero" for the Kalenjin as Uhuru is for the Kikuyu.

I don't know about Ruto's guilt or innocence in this particular case.  But I wouldn't put it past him to have been involved in organizing some of the activities.  What seems clear to me is that Ruto was in a position to put a stop to the violence in the Rift Valley before it got out of hand.  But he did not. 

[MOON Ki]

If Ruto organized it, then he is as much a "hero" for the Kalenjin as Uhuru is for the Kikuyu.

Ruto is a "hero" for supposedly being man enough to go for a "final solution" to the problem of "stolen land".   Uhuru is a "hero" for supposedly leading  the salvation of his "our people" from "crazed" Kalenjins and Luos.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

What is often forgotten is that Kibaki stole an election and pre-organized murder by the police. In places like Kisumu the police (Grace Kaindi) routinely murdered people. The initial killings by the police in RV fizzled in the face of overwhelming counter measures.

If Ruto organized it, then he is as much a "hero" for the Kalenjin as Uhuru is for the Kikuyu.

I don't know about Ruto's guilt or innocence in this particular case.  But I wouldn't put it past him to have been involved in organizing some of the activities.  What seems clear to me is that Ruto was in a position to put a stop to the violence in the Rift Valley before it got out of hand.  But he did not. 

It is also possible that the established tradition going back to '92 was put into action spontaneously without Ruto's involvement.  In fact I suspect that is what happened.  Yet the man could have called for a "less heroic" option of encouraging his people to protest the election theft without killing innocent Kikuyus; though it's difficult to see Kalenjin not going for soft targets in the face of police bullets.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

If Ruto organized it, then he is as much a "hero" for the Kalenjin as Uhuru is for the Kikuyu.

Ruto is a "hero" for supposedly being man enough to go for a "final solution" to the problem of "stolen land".   Uhuru is a "hero" for supposedly leading  the salvation of his "our people" from "crazed" Kalenjins and Luos.

It appears that Tobiko, DPP who saw no evidence of violence during PEV subscribes to the heroic doctrine.  He is now investigating Raila, Moses Kuria and others for falsifying this evidence.  http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/tobiko-orders-probe-kuria-karua-raila-over-fixing-ruto-claims

[MOON Ki]

It appears that Tobiko, DPP who saw no evidence of violence during PEV subscribes to the heroic doctrine.  He is now investigating Raila, Moses Kuria and others for falsifying this evidence.  http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/tobiko-orders-probe-kuria-karua-raila-over-fixing-ruto-claims

Am puzzled as to what he intends to investigate.    I have looked at some of the media reports, and they all have Kuria's claims that he and  Karua were involved in procuring witnesses.    He might call it "fixing", but that of itself is not necessarily criminal.    As far as I can tell, he never actually stated that they went out to procure people who would give false evidence or they knowingly sent "false witnesses" to anyone.   Kuria is probably (and deliberately) giving the public the impression that he said X when, from a legal viewpoint, what he actually said was Y.

As for Raila and Nyong'o, Kuria claims that they must have been involved in "fixing" because their party wrote a letter to the UN Security Council, urging it not interfere and let the Hague matters run their course.    The letter was made public then, it contains nothing exciting, and it is astonishing that it is to be investigated now.   

[RV Pundit]

How could Ruto a mere Mp organize violence at such scale without being known by NSIS, DCS, DOS, Police, Media and all the PNU supporters (including my own father) never getting to know. These are are tall tales. You'd have to imagine Kalenjin is this hermit community completed insulated..that nobody knew. And that GoK was completely and totally dysfunctional.

This flies in the face of all logic and Bensauda ICC case is never going anywhere. The case has closed and this remain a mystery. Bensauda never got to tell us how Ruto organized this since 2005! and we now have to relie on recanted evidence of little value. And that is exactly what German Judge at pre-trial warned..twice..during request for investigation and pre-trial..that case was just illogical.

What I know for a fact is that most kalenjin were not even thinking of Plan B; most guys were shocked when Kibaki started winning! That shock and rage that followed took a life on it's own especially after the police started shooting and killing peaceful demonstrators. In fact RV violence began way after Kibera and Kisumu had erupted.

Did the politician thereafter take advantage and added fuel to the rage...of course! Ruto at that point was already under 24hrs radar by gok and even if he wanted to do much; he was stuck in Nairobi dealing with ODM issues.

Local politicians, local business men and practical most folks took part after shit had hit the fan. ODM politicians took advantage of the violence while people who had always eyed kikuyu land or business were also taking advantage of the rage and the mayhem.

After Moi had handed power peacefully..few thought Kibaki would even think of refusing to hand over power and brazenly steal election. He remain the guy MOST responsible for PEV.

[Omollo]

Which is why Tobiko should be investigating him for the offences of conspiracy to pervert democracy, treason and murder.

After Moi had handed power peacefully..few thought Kibaki would even think of refusing to hand over power and brazenly steal election. He remain the guy MOST responsible for PEV.