Bella, MOON KI, Legal Minds

[veritas]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3233301/Stay-away-grave-Knox-told-Meredith-Kercher-s-family-said-wanted-pray-there.html

Since Termy's been thinking about it so intently for many years sleepless nights, perhaps he has a point about something. I urge you to read this analysis though Termy, if you haven't already done so.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI2.html

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3233301/Stay-away-grave-Knox-told-Meredith-Kercher-s-family-said-wanted-pray-there.html

Since Termy's been thinking about it so intently for many years sleepless nights, perhaps he has a point about something. I urge you to read this analysis though Termy, if you haven't already done so.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI2.html

veritas,

What's a good place to start?  Read the evidence against her.  Have you ever seen it? 

While those points you raise might be good to have for a case, you don't need any of them to establish guilt.  The circumstantial evidence against her is pretty incriminating by itself. 

There are no innocent explanations for it.  The reasoning for the latest acquittal puts her 0 to 5 meters away from the crime.  Rubbishing her already weak alibi.  It has her actually washing Meredith's blood off her hands.

A bizarre rationale, rivaling Mutungaru's there is no evidence because we refuse to see it.

[veritas]

what's the circumstantial evidence ?

[veritas]

Termy, I read the confession transcripts and the evidence presented by the defence. I see the following issues. Guede projects the crime outside himself and implicates Knox & boyfriend based on planted memories; planted DNA evidence on the knife, bra and footprints, the forensic report inconsistent with "professional" opinions. To me the defence focused too intently on building a case. The police helped plant evidence like plant DNA at the scene AFTER the murder, perhaps because Amanda was such a cow or because Guede's folks were rich.

Guede's story changes consistent with planted memories. He exhibits psychopathic traits like projecting his deed outside him or going to a disco while a girl bled to death. He wrote how "beautiful" she was - that inadvertently reveals motive - rage from rejection. Planted memories include reiterating "black guy did it"; more reference to Knox and boyfriend after media reports.

Circumstantial evidence and other cases of planted memories maybe due to so much media hype - like the witnesses hearing a scream and running confessing years after the murder. I read the professional opinion of the lacerations on Meredith's body from multiple attackers. She could've been high or drugged like most teens do at home and not out on  the street walking and attacked like the way they've described it. Multiple attackers from not enough defence marks on her body or from easily planted evidence like the shoeprint and bra, sounds inadmissible.

I'm still a hundred percent certain after reading the court transcripts and the evidence presented by the defence, Guede killed Meredith. He should be getting life in prison. He's an obvious danger to society.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Terminator:

You wrote that

After some loud discussion, he hears a loud scream over his ipod.  He rushes out of the toilet to find Meredith had been stabbed in the neck.  He spends the rest of his time there trying to staunch her blood with towels.  Basically trying to save her life.  In the process he leaves the "incriminating" evidence.

and that

According to Guede, when he comes out of the bathroom, he runs into Rafaele, Amanda's boyfriend, who he has never met.  The guy has a knife.  They engage in a mini-scuffle on the porch.  Rafaele leaves, telling someone out of sight that it's a black guy and he'll be found culpable.

You and Guede need to pick one story and stick to it 

That is actually my fault.  A lazy recollection.  But all those elements are actually there in his testimony.  I'll share the original once I get the chance.

MOON Ki,

His sequence is meeting the stranger first.  Fighting him off and then finding and attending to Meredith.

Below is the judge's criticism of his testimony.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/understanding_micheli_1_why_he_rejected_rudy_guedes_explanations_as_fi

He dismisses Guede's story as fiction.  IMO while Guede seems to not have a single narrative, I think it's because he is off the mindset of a witness.  He is not selling a narrative, but rather he is still trying to piece together events.  A confused young man telling the truth as new bits of recollection emerge.  None of it is incriminating or even a confirmed lie.  It doesn't help, but it shouldn't incriminate either.

What is clear to me is that before and upto the point of the murder he was in the house legitimately.  Because the break-in can be ruled out without further ado; one of the few areas of consistency in all the rulings.  Someone invited him in the house.  He was very much at home, enough to use the toilet, before the murder.

Whoever lets him in, knows that he is there in the bathroom.  It could have been Amanda Knox (and her boyfriend) or Meredith Kercher or all three of them.  Either way, he is a legal guest.  The reason I think it's Meredith who lets him in is simply because he knows her a lot better than he knows Amanda Knox.  He has never seen AK's boyfriend.   On the other hand, if it is AK and boyfriend who let him in, then the murder does not happen, because there is not enough trust among the participants.

I believe Meredith let him into the house.  In my reconstruction, the other two find her at home and probably think she is alone when she gets into the argument about money with AK.  Maybe AK finds her leaving from her bedroom, searching for her money.  Meredith's fingerprints were found in AK's bedroom(supporting Guede's story that she was looking for her money through the house).

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Termy, I read the confession transcripts and the evidence presented by the defence. I see the following issues. Guede projects the crime outside himself and implicates Knox & boyfriend based on planted memories; planted DNA evidence on the knife, bra and footprints, the forensic report inconsistent with "professional" opinions. To me the defence focused too intently on building a case. The police helped plant evidence like plant DNA at the scene AFTER the murder, perhaps because Amanda was such a cow or because Guede's folks were rich.

Guede's story changes consistent with planted memories. He exhibits psychopathic traits like projecting his deed outside him or going to a disco while a girl bled to death. He wrote how "beautiful" she was - that inadvertently reveals motive - rage from rejection. Planted memories include reiterating "black guy did it"; more reference to Knox and boyfriend after media reports.

Circumstantial evidence and other cases of planted memories maybe due to so much media hype - like the witnesses hearing a scream and running confessing years after the murder. I read the professional opinion of the lacerations on Meredith's body from multiple attackers. She could've been high or drugged like most teens do at home and not out on  the street walking and attacked like the way they've described it. Multiple attackers from not enough defence marks on her body or from easily planted evidence like the shoeprint and bra, sounds inadmissible.

I'm still a hundred percent certain after reading the court transcripts and the evidence presented by the defence, Guede killed Meredith. He should be getting life in prison. He's an obvious danger to society.

veritas,

There is one person in this whole saga who has been convicted for telling lies.  The all-American lilly white Amanda Knox.  She is telling confirmed lies from the first moment of encounter with the authorities.  There is no innocent explanation for them.  She is facing more charges over lies at this very moment.  Guede has never been confirmed to be lying.  Guede's story is consistent with the holistic evidence.

You might want to see the factual sequence of events for a change http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Evidence_List.  All this might come as a surprise if your only source of info on the case has been on the PR sites.

[veritas]

I spent a good many hours reading the court transcripts, like the actual proceedings.

I'm not saying Amanda, boyfriend and Guede aren't pathological liars. They're all liars and I don't believe any of their testimonies.

There is however expert witness testimonies, other witnesses, sequence of events, presented evidence etc. It's apparent there is a hidden motive behind the defence case. It's clear there have been planted evidence, corrupted evidence, inconsistent expert testimonies etc. this happens in most cases when the victim's family aren't satisfied with the outcome. For instance, Meredith's mother is black, she like you perhaps believes that white chic did it and not the poor back dude. This reason alone can motivate a defence team to milk the situation to the max - be it planting evidence, bribery etc.

The fact DNA just happened to turn up in key places, 45 days after examining the crime scene is inadmissible. The defence case is inconsistent, they tried too hard and exhausted too many avenues to make something out of nothing. Now Guede (the one who committed the murder) will be out in a few years when they should've focused on building a case against him. Like bringing in more experts to testify on his psychological condition and to have him locked up for good. My guess is, the defence knows he did it but didn't want him sent to a mere mental asylum for his psychopathic state. Guede needs help. That's a young man out of rage murdered a defenseless chic.

let me continue this a bit later, I'm in my office and I need to head out to my executive lunch with staff on this gorgeous sunny day.

[veritas]

Termy, this is getting old news. NEW news. Why do you think this professor shot his wife?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/shannon-lamb-dsu-shooting-found-dead_55f7a246e4b00e2cd5e7d1c8?section=australia&adsSiteOverride=au

I think he was just off his meds.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I spent a good many hours reading the court transcripts, like the actual proceedings.

I'm not saying Amanda, boyfriend and Guede aren't pathological liars. They're all liars and I don't believe any of their testimonies.

There is however expert witness testimonies, other witnesses, sequence of events, presented evidence etc. It's apparent there is a hidden motive behind the defence case. It's clear there have been planted evidence, corrupted evidence, inconsistent expert testimonies etc. this happens in most cases when the victim's family aren't satisfied with the outcome. For instance, Meredith's mother is black, she like you perhaps believes that white chic did it and not the poor back dude. This reason alone can motivate a defence team to milk the situation to the max - be it planting evidence, bribery etc.

The fact DNA just happened to turn up in key places, 45 days after examining the crime scene is inadmissible. The defence case is inconsistent, they tried too hard and exhausted too many avenues to make something out of nothing. Now Guede (the one who committed the murder) will be out in a few years when they should've focused on building a case against him. Like bringing in more experts to testify on his psychological condition and to have him locked up for good. My guess is, the defence knows he did it but didn't want him sent to a mere mental asylum for his psychopathic state. Guede needs help. That's a young man out of rage murdered a defenseless chic.

let me continue this a bit later, I'm in my office and I need to head out to my executive lunch with staff on this gorgeous sunny day.

It's not just that she lies.  But rather what she lies about.  The holistic evidence is what incriminates AK, and boyfriend.  Not DNA or biological traces, if they bolster the evidence. 

She lies about the break-in, long confirmed to be staged.  She lies about where she was, her alibi.  She accuses an innocent man, Lumumba, after her alibi is destroyed.  The list is long and can go on. 

People can lie innocently.  AK and boyfriend included.  Yet there is no innocent explanation for any of her confirmed lies.  The most innocent one I can think of is she just enjoys lying.  But her lies are too strategic to be divorced from the crime.

IMO if one can come up with an innocent explanation for the staged break-in, establishing reasonable doubt for AK becomes a cake-walk.  The staged burglary is the elephant in room.  The other evidence merely explains why it had to happen.

Termy, this is getting old news. NEW news. Why do you think this professor shot his wife?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/shannon-lamb-dsu-shooting-found-dead_55f7a246e4b00e2cd5e7d1c8?section=australia&adsSiteOverride=au

I think he was just off his meds.

Hard to say.  He's dead.  We'll probably never know.

[veritas]

It was staged by Guede.

He used the vaseline to rape her after she was dead. He most likely wore a condom and left no trace of semen. There was a struggle hence the inconsistent slash marks. He stabbed her numerous times and tried to contain her. He wasn't a seasoned killer yet, hence the frenzied knife and other assault marks not consistent with a typical murder victim.

With that much assault on Meredith's body it would've taken more than 15 minutes of abuse after her scream to do what he did. Sitting in the toilet for how long? His recollection of events is the most inconsistent of all.

He stole Meredith's money, keys etc. and shifted this on Knox rent money. He turned the place upside down genuinely looking for more money down to her bra and panties. I've been robbed in Kenya and let me tell you it was one of the most horrific experiences of my life. Those bandits feel all the way inside your private parts for cash. That's what he did.

He got such a high from his first kill, so he went to a disco afterwards. Typical of what militia groups in West Africa do.

His actions are consistent with a militia attack. Like an African militia wielding a panga in some poor girl's room. It would result in the same kind of frenzied crime scene.

They should've consulted Ivory Coast detectives or the UNHCR to inspect the crime scene. To me the crime scene sounds typical of a frenzied militia attack perpetrated by one individual - Guede.

Here's more of what Ivory Coast deranged psychopaths are cable of:

http://news.yahoo.com/spate-child-murders-horrifies-ivory-coast-174813949.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2931735/Ivory-Coasts-ritual-killers-kidnapping-boys-girls-struck-20-times-three-months.html

Let me emphasize again, Guede is from West Africa not East Africa. He also has a troubled history, escalating to this and that to finally his first murder. He isn't right in the head and he's capable of killing again.

[veritas]

Here's another murder by Ivory Coast migrant in Italy. It's like they're running a gang syndicate slitting throats.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11834743/Murder-of-elderly-couple-in-Sicily-fuels-Italys-growing-anti-immigrant-sentiment.html

[MOON Ki]

Below is the judge's criticism of his testimony.

I too would have found that one hard to believe.

And at no time during these trips does it occur to him to seek help, e.g. call for an ambulance?

IMO while Guede seems to not have a single narrative, ...

In such cases it usually helps to have one---preferably of what really happened, if one is innocent.

Meredith's fingerprints were found in AK's bedroom(supporting Guede's story that she was looking for her money through the house).

Not really.   If she lived in the house, then she could have been---and probably had been---in that room at another time, for an entirely different purpose.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Below is the judge's criticism of his testimony.

I too would have found that one hard to believe.

And at no time during these trips does it occur to him to seek help, e.g. call for an ambulance?

IMO while Guede seems to not have a single narrative, ...

In such cases it usually helps to have one---preferably of what really happened, if one is innocent.

Meredith's fingerprints were found in AK's bedroom(supporting Guede's story that she was looking for her money through the house).

Not really.   If she lived in the house, then she could have been---and probably had been---in that room at another time, for an entirely different purpose.

The judge betrays his prejudice I think.  By suggesting that "black man" is  more logically followed by "run", as opposed to Guede's testimony.  Yet, in the context of everything else in the case, it is not far fetched.  AK and Sollecito demonstrated a penchant for lies that was manipulative.  The main issue with Guede is that the standard of guilty until proven innocent was applied to him.  So guilt was ascribed even when innocent explanations were not unreasonable.

I had also wondered why he does not call for help.  It's only later that I learnt Guede did not have a phone.  Why he does not seek for help afterwards when he leaves in a panic?  I think he realized no one would believe him. 

The fingerprint point you make is fair enough, to me.  Even though other evidence, such as Meredith's character and relationship to AK would make it unlikely for Meredith to be a frequent visitor.  What is interesting is that no fingerprint of Amanda Knox herself is found in her own bedroom.  This page here sheds some light on the fingerprinting http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Fingerprints

[MOON Ki]

I had also wondered why he does not call for help.  It's only later that I learnt Guede did not have a phone.

And the lady's phone?  The house down the street?  He just keeps getting towels, which aren't working?

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I had also wondered why he does not call for help.  It's only later that I learnt Guede did not have a phone.

And the lady's phone?  The house down the street?  He just keeps getting towels, which aren't working?

Meredith's phones disappeared from her handbag at some point that night.  Guede's biological traces, I believe DNA, was found on the handbag.

1. One theory would be that Guede takes the phones, along with the keys and throws them into a yard somewhere in Perugia where they are later found. 
2. The other theory is that Guede tries to find her phone in her handbag in order to call for help, but the phones have already been taken away by AK and boyfriend.

Each would have to be taken on its merits.  But we know that Guede did try to help Meredith by staunching her bleeding.  The towels prove it.  In that moment could he have searched for her phone in the handbag?

The other would have to assume that he takes her phones and keys from the handbag to throw away.  The only question would be why he would do that after trying to save her.  Is it to delay the discovery of her body?  This would appear to be contradicted by the fact that his shoe-prints leave the victim's bedroom and head straight out.  He leaves the bedroom door open as he exits.

After he exits the scene in a panic, I believe his state of mind did not permit him to contact help, for instance the neighbor down the street because he realized noone would believe him.

[MOON Ki]

In that moment could he have searched for her phone in the handbag?

Maybe.    But did he ever suggest that he did so?   if not, then we should assume that he did not.

After he exits the scene in a panic, I believe his state of mind did not permit him to contact help, for instance the neighbor down the street because he realized noone would believe him.

Perhaps.   I'm more curious about why he chose to go for towel after towel, instead of seeking a phone or help elsewhere.

Most likely, they all did it.   From the facts, as given, is it possible to construct a narrative that fits that?

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

In that moment could he have searched for her phone in the handbag?

Maybe.    But did he ever suggest that he did so?   if not, then we should assume that he did not.

After he exits the scene in a panic, I believe his state of mind did not permit him to contact help, for instance the neighbor down the street because he realized noone would believe him.

Perhaps.   I'm more curious about why he chose to go for towel after towel, instead of seeking a phone or help elsewhere.

Most likely, they all did it.   From the facts, as given, is it possible to construct a narrative that fits that?

We can't assume he did.  Yet it is reasonable that he could have and did not consider it an important detail. 

One can reconstruct such a narrative as you suggest.  With Guede's left shoe stepping in the blood.  Then he exits the scene for good.  Yet, the only narrative we have of the towels is Guede's.  His story about the towels is consistent with the evidence.

If they all did it, it would mean that Guede had that level of trust for AK and Rafaelle.  There is no evidence that supports that.  Because of the lack of familiarity with each other that they had, regardless of motive for murder, Rafaele  cannot trust Guede and vice versa.   

The other scenario would involve Guede and AK alone, who are on ciao level of familiarity.  In that case, AK lets Guede into the house, he poops, comes out without flushing, and they attack Meredith, then he leaves the scene.  AK then informs Rafaelle with a made-up story after Guede has left.  The problem with that is why Rafaelle would agree to be involved in setting up the rape scene instead of just calling the cops on Guede.

[veritas]

When it's two people it's premeditated. There's no record of that whatsoever. Amanda didn't even know Guede's name. Guede initially brought the towels to clean up and dispose of Meredith's body. The task was heavier than expected considering there were others who could've walked in any moment. He had a history of not bothering to flush the toilet let alone clean up a murder scene. He fled to Germany instead.

I bet he spent some time on the Ivory Coast trying to find his dad before things spiralled down for him. I say this because when I came from Kenya after 2 years I was forgetting all the time to flush the toilet because I'd grown used to a pit toilet.

If Amanda and boyfriend had any part in this then it could've been they came back that night, discovered Meredith dead, freaked out and fled the scene.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

When it's two people it's premeditated. There's no record of that whatsoever. Amanda didn't even know Guede's name. Guede initially brought the towels to clean up and dispose of Meredith's body. The task was heavier than expected considering there were others who could've walked in any moment. He had a history of not bothering to flush the toilet let alone clean up a murder scene. He fled to Germany instead.

I bet he spent some time on the Ivory Coast trying to find his dad before things spiralled down for him. I say this because when I came from Kenya after 2 years I was forgetting all the time to flush the toilet because I'd grown used to a pit toilet.

If Amanda and boyfriend had any part in this then it could've been they came back that night, discovered Meredith dead, freaked out and fled the scene.

I would add and fled the scene without calling the police.  To me the real oddity of the burglar angle is why a burglar would find it necessary to stage the event after doing his thing.  Maybe he did it to really fool the detectives.  After all only Amanda's and Meredith's mixed DNA are found in break-in room.

Rudy Guede has been in Italy since he was 5 or 6.  His dad also lives in Italy.

[veritas]

His dad moved back to the Ivory Coast permanently and abandoned Rudy to a rich family who then abandoned him. Rudy lived on the Ivory Coast at some point. His rich adopted family eventually abandoned him because they'd been covering up his criminal tendencies for awhile.

Amanda and boyfriend's DNA were found behind Meredith's bra clasp moved under the carpet after the crime and tested 46 days later. Same thing with the kitchen knife when Amanda and boyfriend were in custody. Most likely planted/contaminated DNA and inadmissible. It's not humanly possible to have that little DNA on a piece of evidence unless clinically planted. If Amanda touched Meredith's bra, there would'v been more of it. We humans are messy.

Maybe it wasn't staged. Guede turned the place upside down looking for money. He was penniless right? I think this saga has blown out of proportion because Meredith's family have been blindsighted by media reports. The case itself minus planted evidence, witness tampering and the weird Italian judicial system is quite straight forward.