Author Topic: Unemployment crisis  (Read 10083 times)

Offline RV Pundit

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Unemployment crisis
« on: July 21, 2015, 01:16:16 PM »

Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2015, 02:21:35 PM »

Offline Omollo

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2015, 02:21:44 PM »
Somehow that photo remains invisible to me

... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Emali

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2015, 02:32:49 PM »
When access to a good C.V. template is a cyber away you get 100 Rocket Scientist's from Nairobi Aviation College.

Sadly most have the 'papers' but lack the knowledge too many half baked graduates, it doesn't change the Unemployment problem but even if jobs were available most would still need extra training or be a liability immediately they are employed.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2015, 05:40:55 PM »
This should be number one issues going forward. I think am giving up on corruption and insecurity. Maybe we can spend our energies finding means and ways of solving this unemployment crisis. Gok should think of finding some ways to keep that many people somehow engaged even for lesser pay.

We should also think of paying people some unemployment benefits. Open up labour offices everywhere. Export this labour. Just figure out something.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2015, 06:28:14 PM »
This should be number one issues going forward. I think am giving up on corruption and insecurity. Maybe we can spend our energies finding means and ways of solving this unemployment crisis. Gok should think of finding some ways to keep that many people somehow engaged even for lesser pay.

We should also think of paying people some unemployment benefits. Open up labour offices everywhere. Export this labour. Just figure out something.
The quickest way to sort out unemployment is to make things that people want.  The China model.  There is only so far one can go with things that come out of the ground.  Few young ones are interested in farming.

Software technology would be another area.  It's a relatively even playing field.  Kenya has to make things that people want and are willing to part with serious money to get it.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2015, 06:41:06 PM »
Yes definitely the China model. India model is like the kenya model. Software and such industries are not as great employers as Low Cost Manufacturing. We have to think about opening Industrial Parks all over the country. This is something CDF, Counties and National Gov should start doing. This is what I think China devolved gov do. We have to go beyond building schools, toilets and dispensaries into doing stuff to create employment.

Anyway this should be now the No 1 issue for the country to grapple with.

The quickest way to sort out unemployment is to make things that people want.  The China model.  There is only so far one can go with things that come out of the ground.  Few young ones are interested in farming.

Software technology would be another area.  It's a relatively even playing field.  Kenya has to make things that people want and are willing to part with serious money to get it.

Offline Omollo

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2015, 07:11:21 PM »
Pundit

They can cut unemployment by 50% in three months.

Let me briefly explain:

1. GoK has now hundreds of contracts and contractors. Under the Industrial Training Act (I hear it has been reformed), every contractor is required to take up a number of apprentices. These are determined by the size of the contract. The SGR alone would attract like 10 000 apprentices to the Main contractor; Sub-Contractors would occupy another 10K
2. Exactly how many people are unemployed? How many are occupied by various government funded initiatives such as in #1 above? You would need to operate a massive database to enter qualified unemployed
3. Set up the criteria for determining who is unemployed. Suggestions:
  • Must be 18 - (retirement age)
  • Must have successfully completed form 4
  • Must have completed an approved trade course or qualified to undertake a trade course

You would be surprised how many people would be caught inflating the numbers.

Those who are not qualified to be unemployed, can enter different registers. For example underage kids seeking jobs should be re-directed to schools.

Retired people still queueing for jobs can be re-directed to a service that can recruit for companies that wish to hire pensioners.

Mama bongas should have their jobs registered. They and anybody else who wants a formal or different job can be entered as employed but seeking other opportunities.

The majority of the people sending applications are NOT even qualified to be called "unemployed". Others already have jobs.

I am saying there is simply no order. The likes of Omamo lack the ideas. Wait until we take over, I will fight to be Employment Secretary. I will wipe out unemployment as you know it!
This should be number one issues going forward. I think am giving up on corruption and insecurity. Maybe we can spend our energies finding means and ways of solving this unemployment crisis. Gok should think of finding some ways to keep that many people somehow engaged even for lesser pay.

We should also think of paying people some unemployment benefits. Open up labour offices everywhere. Export this labour. Just figure out something.
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Emali

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2015, 08:13:33 PM »

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2015, 01:41:06 PM »
Emali,

That system will spit you out if you are too straight and narrow.  The Kenyan politician cannot see beyond his nose or think past his stomach.  You can't have a peaceful revolution.

The young suckers wasting away in illicit brews come to mind only at election time.  They are effectively on their own.  NYS might provide a half baked solution.

The issue is how to industrialize under those conditions.  The scumbags running the country and the political culture have to be considered a constant.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2015, 03:44:57 PM »
Policies policies policies. Good policies create employment. Sonko et al policies create dependency.

Offline Omollo

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2015, 07:49:19 PM »
Policies policies policies. Good policies create employment. Sonko et al policies create dependency.
The Uhuru government is simply afraid of the issue. It started in the 70s when Kenyatta got rid of labour offices where people registered for employment.

Since then they prefer to tell lies. Nobody knows how many people are unemployed in the country. NOBODY
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2015, 09:18:39 PM »
Pundit
1. GoK has now hundreds of contracts and contractors. Under the Industrial Training Act (I hear it has been reformed), every contractor is required to take up a number of apprentices. These are determined by the size of the contract. The SGR alone would attract like 10 000 apprentices to the Main contractor; Sub-Contractors would occupy another 10K

A country like Kenya, with hardly any serious infrastructure, should not have such a huge unemployment problem: people can be usefully put to work.   

Over on Jukwaa, we once had a long-running thread on Nazi economics:

http://jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/8607/africa-copy-germany-economics-stay

An "extract":

Quote from: "@otishotish" source="/post/124846/thread" timestamp="1375660131
When Schacht too over, something like 6 million Germans were unemployed.    When he left, about 3 years later, the number was less than 500,000 and by 1938, the number was less than 50,000, i.e. practically full employment.    What's more, those figures don't tell the whole story, because the period also started a rapid rise in the number of "expatriate workers".   

A great deal of what he did had similarities with the "New Deal" in the USA---putting people to work on the public purse.    What is interesting, though, is they got these people to do real work: if I recall correctly, German productivity in 1938 was the highest in Europe, and living standards shot up
...
The manufacturing aspect is interesting in many ways: E.g. Hitler the car-lover, his dream of a "people's car" [literally a "volkswagen": "volk"= people, "wagen=car"] and the German car industry;  Hitler's need for a vehicle to promote Nazi propaganda, whence the subsequent rise in the mass production of radios (which also helped with employment), etc.

Going back to the question of what we can do here and now, I was intrigued to read that:

"As a country, therefore, Kenya has identified industrialization as the way forward towards the attainment of middle-income status as outlined in the Jubilee Manifesto and Vision 2030. I formed the Ministry of Industrialization and Enterprise Development to spearhead our industrial revolution and export diversification agenda". [HE President Kenyatta]

http://www.statehousekenya.go.ke/speeches/uhuru/june2013/2013130601.htm

The said ministry's website, when it is not down (which seems to be most of the time), hardly gives the impression of an industrial revolution in the offing.   It seems to be down again right now, probably due to intensive planning for the revolution, but from the Mars Group's website, its immediate plans:

Expected OutputsMedium Term Performance Indicators & Targets

http://budget.marsgroupkenya.org/national/programmes/116/#.Uf7glmrD_IU

Hardly the stuff of industrial revolutions ....

Countries like Kenya need to take a serious look at countries such as South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. instead of just dreaming that an industrial revolution or whatever occurs simply because one says it will or should occur.  In South Korea and Singapore, what I have seen is not just big plans and "visions" but also concrete steps for how to transform the plan/vision into reality---and they have worked.    In contrast, as things stand right now, Kenya's Vision 2030 seems to be no more than a mild exercise in absurdity.   That, by itself, is not necessarily bad---things that cause amusement are always welcome.   The problem is that quite a few people seem to take it seriously.

I note that some comment has been made on Kenya's manufacturing sector.   That is rapidly going nowhere. 

First, the continued importation of cheap Chinese junk is not helping, although it contributes to a huge deficit in favour of the Chinese.    And on this, I learned something "useful" on my latest trip to Beijing: I was out to buy some electronics, on the grounds that they were obviously cheaper in China.   My hosts advised me not to and, instead, to buy the same things elsewhere.   The reasons they gave?   Most of the stuff sold locally, to the not-so-well-off Chinese masses, and to poor places like Africa, is the low end of the cheap, crappy stuff; what goes to the West generally undergoes somewhat more rigorous quality control, even if there it is not especially highly regarded.

Second, whereas other Asian countries---Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc.---are taking advantage of rising labour costs in China, with Chinese (and other countries') companies now outsourcing to those places, nothing of the sort is happening in Africa.   Africans seem content to borrow money for infrastructure, at which they will gave and excitedly announce that "Kung Fu is indeed helping us!   What a friend!"

Over the weekend, I had dinner with a variety of people---Asian, Western, etc.---and from a variety of professions.   I asked them for their thoughts on how some Asian countries had done so well and if their experience could be "exported" to Africa.   Generally, they pointed to four things:

* The right government policies, vigorously and forcefully seen through.

* Advantageous use of readily available human capital. (In this regard, one or two "unhelpfully" mentioned our seemingly endless capacity for mayhem, with large numbers of youth "employed" in "rebel armies", etc.)

*  A low tolerance for corruption, even if it exists.  (On this one, I was staggered to learn that estimates, by a UK group, of stolen African money stashed overseas is around $1 trillion---Buhari's $150 billion is only for 10 years and for just one country---but the begging is endless!)

* A very strong and focused work-ethic.   (Here, NACADA's figures, which show that most youth in the "Capital Area" and surrounding environs are "fully loaded" by noon hardly paint a pretty picture for the future.)

A lesson from agriculture:

And coffee.     A look at most of Africa's traditional producers of coffee shows that they either "not growing" or are in "decline", and that has implications on revenue, employment, etc.    On the other hand, a place like Vietnam has come from behind to now rival Brazil.  Why are such things important?    While a place like Kenya has all sorts of VISION dreams, with Konza City---which could well turn out to be no more than a land Ponzi scheme---exciting the imaginations of many, perhaps the "right" road is the "dull" one.   Also from the same Jukwaa thread:

Quote from: @otishotish" source="/post/124830/thread" timestamp="1375632614
I recently read a very interesting book that has some relevance here:

How Asia Works: Success and Failure in the World's Most Dynamic Region, by J. Stidwell.
http://www.amazon.com/How-Asia-Works-Success-Failure/dp/080211959X/ref=cm_rdp_product

One of the Amazon reviews gives a good summary:

Author Studwell argues that there are three critical interventions that governments can use to speed up economic development. Used in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and now China, they have produced the quickest progressions from poverty to wealth that the world has seen.

The first and most overlooked is to maximize output from agriculture. The second is to direct investment and entrepreneurs towards manufacturing exports. Machines can easily be purchased on the world market, and successful east-Asian governments promoted technological upgrading through subsidies conditioned on export performance. (Exporters were almost invariably better businesses than firms that sold only at home.) The third is to focus capital on the fastest possible technology learning and the promise of high long-term profits, not short-term returns and individual consumption. This tends to pit the state against many businessmen and consumers with shorter-term horizons.

Thus, economic development is as simple as one, two, three. Unfortunately, wealthy nations and their economic institutions (the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund) have provided contradictory advice to poor states, despite the fact that no significant economy has ever developed successfully via free-trade and deregulation from the beginning - including the U.S. and Great Britain. Positive intervention has been required in agriculture and manufacturing that fostered early accumulation of capital and technological learning.


If he is right, and he makes a convincing argument for his case, then things don't look that great for Africa:

* What should be done in agriculture is not being done.   This is one place where all the "surplus labour" could be put to good use.   (I note that even in Kenya, the "economic powerhouse of Eastern Africa", unemployment is something like 40% and mostly of young energetic people.)

* Cheap junk from China et al continue to erode manufacturing capacity.    Currently Africa (all of Africa) contributes something like 1.2%  or so of global manufacturing output.

* As a consequence, the sort of "technological learning" that Stidwell refers to is not taking place.

In fine:

Places like Kenya should simply prepare for worse to come: the population will keep growing; the government has neither the will nor vision---and I don't mean jokes like "Vision 3020 2030; places like Nairobi to host even larger slum populations while the "cream" drive fancy cars on Chinese-built roads; etc.  I see little on the horizon to suggest a change any time soon.
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
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Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2015, 09:47:36 PM »
Pundit:

Good to see you finally "come around":  A couple of months ago, this summarized your view on unemployment in Kenya:

RV Pundit:
Quote
When is the last time you read a kenya labour report? When is the last time you checked earnings in informal sector? There are enough jobs for those willing to work. Those like your friends waiting for "right time" when their tribe will be in power will wait for quite some time. In meantime i would advice them to look for jobs everywhere..including starting their own small business.

MOON Ki:
Quote
Someone out there doesn't know what you know.   You should help them help "those willing to work".

"Unemployment Rate in Kenya increased to 40 percent in 2011 from 12.70 percent in 2006. Unemployment Rate in Kenya averaged 22.43 Percent from 1999 until 2011, reaching an all time high of 40 Percent in 2011 and a record low of 12.70 Percent in 2006. Unemployment Rate in Kenya is reported by the Kenya National Bureau of Statistics"

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/kenya/unemployment-rate

"Youth unemployment in Kenya is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. Today, unemployment in Kenya stands at 40%, and 70% of those unemployed are between the ages of 15 and 35.. "

http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2013/10/15/reducing-youth-unemployment-kenya

""

http://fortuneofafrica.com/kenya/unemployment-in-kenya/

"Universities in Kenya release about 70,000 graduates into the job market every year. A large number of these graduates contribute to the 40 per cent unemployment rate cited by the Kenya National Bureau of Statistics."

http://www.jkuat.ac.ke/departments/it/ideas-to-help-graduates-to-be-more-employable/

""

http://www.ijern.com/journal/April-2014/43.pdf

"Teargas rains down on Kenyans marching for better jobs."

http://www.equaltimes.org/teargas-rains-down-on-kenyans?lang=en#.VQRUC2dFBKo

"Kenya's Ticking Time Bomb: How political corruption is turning the country's spiralling youth unemployment into a threat to society.
...
The country has one of the largest youth populations in Africa, but roughly 70 percent of its working age youth - almost 10 million people - are unemployed, although a surprising number are very well educated and possess the kinds of skills a healthy economy really should be able to put to use.

In a country where almost 80 percent of the population is under the age of 35 some have labelled it a national disaster in the making, that may have serious social consequences and lead to civil unrest."


http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/peopleandpower/2013/11/kenya-ticking-time-bomb-20131120115023966577.html

http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=1786.60#quickreply


MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.

Offline Emali

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2015, 11:10:00 PM »
Emali,

That system will spit you out if you are too straight and narrow.  The Kenyan politician cannot see beyond his nose or think past his stomach.  You can't have a peaceful revolution.

The young suckers wasting away in illicit brews come to mind only at election time.  They are effectively on their own.  NYS might provide a half baked solution.

The issue is how to industrialize under those conditions.  The scumbags running the country and the political culture have to be considered a constant.

In 50 years we have gone from living like our ancestors did 500 years ago to virtually abandoning everything we knew and believed for a formula based on denial and upuzi.We have Equity's Mwangis and ?!...those are rare exceptions,I dont believe we can Industrialize without a sound plan...which starts with those in power.

I do get it though.... I view it like the South Sudan crisis where their is no solution but postponing the inevitable... war-coup-countercoup-war-WAR before they finally emerge. We will industrialize someday...

Offline Omollo

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2015, 11:54:09 PM »
MoonKi

I understand where you are coming from. However much as I admire qualitative figures, I would rather hang by the Quantitative twin.

What is so hard about keeping an accurate database of the unemployed.

My position remains that many of the so called "unemployed" are NOT qualified to be so called.
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2015, 12:28:04 AM »
I changed my mind when I saw that moving picture. The last labour report showed informal jobs were kicking arse for the same level of education. I think Kenya is on the right track...it just need to accelerate efforts..esp investing on road, rail and power infrastructure...those are constant fixed cost for any company coming here. No way any manufacturing can thrive when we have world worse transport and electricity cost.
Pundit:

Good to see you finally "come around":  A couple of months ago, this summarized your view on unemployment in Kenya:


Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2015, 12:44:01 AM »
MoonKi

I understand where you are coming from. However much as I admire qualitative figures, I would rather hang by the Quantitative twin.

What is so hard about keeping an accurate database of the unemployed.

My position remains that many of the so called "unemployed" are NOT qualified to be so called.

I too am all for quantitative, and I tried to include some in my "posting" above.   But, to my mind, a good off-the-cuff  "figure"  is actually the number of fit young men that one can count on any given day while driving from town-to-town and village-to-village.   Look at them lounging by the roadside, planning to commit petty crimes during the day or worse ones at night. 

Never mind ... Which bits do you find "especially qualitative".   Those such as the following?

Quote
"Universities in Kenya release about 70,000 graduates into the job market every year. A large number of these graduates contribute to the 40 per cent unemployment rate cited by the Kenya National Bureau of Statistics."


Anyways ... even after the "qual/quant question" is settled, there is the little matter of reality.  If the majority of Kenyans think that unemployment is not so high or not bad, then all I can say is "good for them!".     To the extent that I care about my compatriots, it is that I'm more concerned with whether people are working---and doing useful "work", if possible---than whether or not they are in somebody's database. 
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
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Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2015, 03:31:26 AM »
Reduce the cost of doing business and Kenya will be like dubai

Offline Omollo

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Re: Unemployment crisis
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2015, 03:16:37 PM »
MoonKi

There is a reason decent countries spend a lot of money to get accurate figures about Unemployment. It is no surprise that those countries that keep accurate figures also run the best targeted programs to address the problems they identify.

I have to admit that you have not opposed the collection of accurate information on unemployment. I think you believe there is sufficient data to address the problem. I partially agree: only those problems identified can be addressed.

Some people think the collection of such data would arm the gov to unleash propaganda. That is a possibility. However the magic of raw data is that it gives others the same weapon which is unleashed by its own interpretation.

let me give a silly example of how accurate and detailed data can help: If you ask Parliament as now constituted to release more cash to Polytechnics, the Jubilee MPs would refuse after being so instructed by State House. However if you give the MPs statistics that clearly show Jubilee areas as having the HIGHEST unemployment and projections showing how the money requested would instantly reduce the unemployment, you can be sure to get some rebellions that would lead to something.

There is already a wasteful civil service called "Provincial Administration". Why can't every assistant chief be designated as Unemployment Registrar? All those so called labour offices that shake down wahindis and expatriates should start doing something for their salaries.
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread