Mugabe Interviewed in Abuja

[MOON Ki]

How did you want Mugabe to get back the land?

It has nothing to do with what I "want".    That said, to my mind, a more sensible approach would have been to buy the whites out, using borrowed money if necessary.   After pissing on such an idea, it seems that someone is finally thinking about it:

Government intends to compensate farmers whose farms were compulsorily acquired under the land reform programme as the country seeks to restore confidence in the property sector and normalize ties with the international community, finance minister Patrick Chinamasa has said.

http://source.co.zw/2015/03/zimbabwe-acknowledges-debt-to-white-farmers-for-property-seizures-chinamasa-tells-imf/

The Zimbabwean government has invited over 1000 white farmers to collect compensation for farms that were seized under President Robert Mugabe's directives. Secretary of lands, Ngoni Masoka, issued a statement in state-run newspaper The Herald calling for dispossessed farmers to contact the lands ministry.

http://www.cfuzim.org/index.php/newspaper-articles-2/land-issues/2600-zimbabwean-government-to-compensate-white-farmers

[RV Pundit]

Did you offer to lend them money and they refused. Brits who had overseen settlers take over native land bore responsibility. The responsibility they accepted before some moron came round and overturned it. Mugabe had to bend over and bend over...until when.

The person to blame remain one Tony Blair and George bush. The same fools who wrecked Iraq looking for imaginary WDM.

It has nothing to do with what I "want".    That said, to my mind, a more sensible approach would have been to buy the whites out, using borrowed money if necessary.   After pissing on such an idea, it seems that someone is finally thinking about it:

[MOON Ki]

Bob had been dealt two bad cards and he played them deftly...and Zim is still standing. And Mugabe is still PORK, admired and loved by many including yours truly.

Do the many include the millions of his people who are running away because the place is a mess?   Does "deftly" including finally waking up to the fact that compensation for the land would have been a better approach?  (I noted you comment on his bending over; looks like The Hero is at it again!)

[RV Pundit]

The fact that Mugabe is still popular means Zim including those in exile understand cost-benefit of losing a mainly white economy and gaining their land back is obvious.The proposal for Zim to pay back those farmers is ridiculous unless they are paying for property and development on the land. Mugabe should fire such a minister.

In any case those are probably IMF conditionalities by the same EU and US.

I had rather sleep hungry and be poor than bend over.

Zim economy is slowly rebounding. They'll be back. This time unlike RSA for example; they'll have dealt with land problem forever.
 

Do the many include the millions of his people who are running away because the place is a mess?   Does "deftly" including finally waking up to the fact that compensation for the land would have been a better approach?  (I noted you comment on his bending over; looks like he's at it again!)

[Omollo]

Chalker was broke and got a job to peddle her influence. She had not been exactly friendly to Commonwealth heads of state but she thought she could come back and behave like the old style headmistress and get deals for Unilever.

It was silly of the Mzungu not to sell at that time. The County does not need to pay anything when the lease expires.

Sorry that was her predecessor Baroness Lydia Chalker.

[MOON Ki]

The fact that Mugabe is still popular means Zim including those in exile understand cost-benefit of losing a mainly white economy and gaining their land back is obvious.The proposal for Zim to pay back those farmers is ridiculous unless they are paying for property and development on the land. Mugabe should fire such a minister.

Yes, he certainly is "popular".  How many times has he "won" elections and by what margins?  What a man.

Yes, Mugabe should certainly consider it ridiculous to pay compensation and should fire the minister.   Sadly, it does not look like Hero Bob sees it that way.

In any case those are probably IMF conditional by the same EU and US.

That could be so.    And that would be the same lot he has been telling to f**k off.

I had rather sleep hungry and be poor than bend over.

A most admirable attitude.    Still, it looks like our brothers down in Zim are beginning to have their doubts on that one.

they'll have dealt with land problem forever.
 

That is certainly true.   But they could have dealt with it forever back then by doing what they now plan to do: pay for the land.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

The fact that Mugabe is still popular means Zim including those in exile understand cost-benefit of losing a mainly white economy and gaining their land back is obvious.The proposal for Zim to pay back those farmers is ridiculous unless they are paying for property and development on the land. Mugabe should fire such a minister.

In any case those are probably IMF conditionalities by the same EU and US.

I had rather sleep hungry and be poor than bend over.

Zim economy is slowly rebounding. They'll be back. This time unlike RSA for example; they'll have dealt with land problem forever.
 

Do the many include the millions of his people who are running away because the place is a mess?   Does "deftly" including finally waking up to the fact that compensation for the land would have been a better approach?  (I noted you comment on his bending over; looks like he's at it again!)

I fully sympathize with the state of land distribution in Zim at the time.  But Zim is messed up because Mugabe chose personal self preservation over the interests of the country.

Yes, the bazungu played a major role.  And he would have known they would.  While I value independence, one can't be stupid about it.

I recognize it is popular among some Africans when an African leader thumbs his nose at the west. 

Even if the price is surviving on food aid from the same hated fellows for the next decade.  While the leader continues to celebrate $2 million birthdays.

I don't know the current state of Zim's political environment.  Whether it's free and open or just another charade.  So I can't comment on his popularity at home.

[Omollo]

Really? Nothing to do with you? I only read your opinions.

It has nothing to do with what I "want".    That said, to my mind, a more sensible approach would have been to buy the whites out, using borrowed money if necessary.   After pissing on such an idea, it seems that someone is finally thinking about it

I tried to give you the historical perspective which you dismissed as "general".

Mugabe was BUYING out the whites between 1980 - 2000. There was money BORROWED from Britain to pay for the land. The white farmers REFUSED to sell the land. They no longer wanted to leave Zim in droves as they had indicated earlier. They only surrendered desolate unproductive land and would react angrily when the GOZ insisted on restorative surrender to cater for people still living who were deprived of their land by the whites without compensation.

Bob never pissed on the idea of compensation.

Government intends to compensate farmers whose farms were compulsorily acquired under the land reform programme as the country seeks to restore confidence in the property sector and normalize ties with the international community, finance minister Patrick Chinamasa has said.

There you go. You fell for white man's propaganda. At no time did Zim say would not compensate the farmers. Once Britain refused to lend the money; UNDP which was administering the cash also refused as did other international institutions, Zim was issuing IoUs to the farmers -  a detail deliberately ignored by the media. The idea was always to pay the farmers once Zim could afford it.

The Zimbabwean government has invited over 1000 white farmers to collect compensation for farms that were seized under President Robert Mugabe's directives. Secretary of lands, Ngoni Masoka, issued a statement in state-run newspaper The Herald calling for dispossessed farmers to contact the lands ministry.

Ditto

[RV Pundit]

On contrary Africans admire the west except when they are enslaving, colonizing and neo-colonizing them. That is where I draw the line. Otherwise we welcome west as tourist,donors, investors and friends. But they should come with clean hands. 

I do not see any shame in welcoming donations, business and western friendship.Mugabe is one smart fellow who clearly understands that. But if the choice is for some 6,000 folks to own 60% of the land acquired thro' dubious mean..then it an easy choice..damn the consequences.

When you talk about self-preservation....what political threat was mugabe facing during Tony Blaire time?

I recognize it is popular among some Africans when an African leader thumbs his nose at the west. 

[Omollo]

Bob is only keeping his word.

He agreed to pay the farmers for any improvements and developments on the land. But vowed never to pay for the land. The farmers were granted IOUs which some refused to collect. The idea was that since sanctions had made it impossible to raise funds to pay them, Zim would pay when she can afford it. However the Land Reform program was to go ahead without British Money.

The fact that Mugabe is still popular means Zim including those in exile understand cost-benefit of losing a mainly white economy and gaining their land back is obvious.The proposal for Zim to pay back those farmers is ridiculous unless they are paying for property and development on the land. Mugabe should fire such a minister.

In any case those are probably IMF conditionalities by the same EU and US.

I had rather sleep hungry and be poor than bend over.

Zim economy is slowly rebounding. They'll be back. This time unlike RSA for example; they'll have dealt with land problem forever.
 

Do the many include the millions of his people who are running away because the place is a mess?   Does "deftly" including finally waking up to the fact that compensation for the land would have been a better approach?  (I noted you comment on his bending over; looks like he's at it again!)

[MOON Ki]

Really? Nothing to do with you? I only read your opinions.

My opinions certainly have to do with me.   But what I "want"---and that was your word---is irrelevant, and for a very simple reason: there is nothing I want in the matter.

[RV Pundit]

That is admirable from Bob. Zim was messed by Western World. Not Mugabe. History will be very fair to Mugabe.

Bob is only keeping his word.

He agreed to pay the farmers for any improvements and developments on the land. But vowed never to pay for the land. The farmers were granted IOUs which some refused to collect. The idea was that since sanctions had made it impossible to raise funds to pay them, Zim would pay when she can afford it. However the Land Reform program was to go ahead without British Money.

[MOON Ki]

Bob is only keeping his word.

He agreed to pay the farmers for any improvements and developments on the land. But vowed never to pay for the land. The farmers were granted IOUs which some refused to collect. The idea was that since sanctions had made it impossible to raise funds to pay them, Zim would pay when she can afford it. However the Land Reform program was to go ahead without British Money.

My guess is that real money is going to be paid for that land if Hero Bob wants certain problems solved.    This will have to be done, regardless of any tough talk and other heroics by Hero Bob.

By the way, if this is true, then it is amusing that black farmers will be paying rent for the land that was reclaimed for them:

"In a bid to make amends for his controversial land reform policy, Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe is set to collect land rentals from new black farmers to help compensate white farmers whose land was seized by his government.
...
Zimbabwe's Lands and Rural Resettlement Minister Douglas Mombeshora said commercial and communal land reform farm beneficiaries will - from this year - start paying rentals, with funds being channelled towards compensating former white farmers.
...
Mombeshora told the Masvingo provincial lands committee on Thursday that black commercial farmers would pay US$3 land rental per hectare and US$2 unit tax per hectare annually."

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/stnews/2015/05/10/mugabe-to-compensate-white-farmers-for-land-grabs

So.   Hero Bob got them back their land, but they must now pay rent so that the whites can get paid for the land.  What irony.

[Omollo]

I fully sympathize with the state of land distribution in Zim at the time.  But Zim is messed up because Mugabe chose personal self preservation over the interests of the country.

Yes, the bazungu played a major role.  And he would have known they would.  While I value independence, one can't be stupid about it.

I recognize it is popular among some Africans when an African leader thumbs his nose at the west. 

Even if the price is surviving on food aid from the same hated fellows for the next decade.  While the leader continues to celebrate $2 million birthdays.

I don't know the current state of Zim's political environment.  Whether it's free and open or just another charade.  So I can't comment on his popularity at home.

Bob is the least pretentious of the African presidents. 

He earns the lowest salary and insists on spending the money he earns. He saves unlike other big men.

Mugabe was not preserving himself but doing what his people fought for. He did not wish to become a traitor and stooge like Kenyatta.

BTW has Uganda repaid the Indians (other than the Madhvani Brothers)?

[Omollo]

Bob has a bad press and it is not about to change now.

Does Uhuru Kenyatta collect rent from Lease Holders in Nairobi or are they Rates mandated by law? One can choose to twist and bend any fact to create the image of a mad man.

And yes, I consider Bob an African hero. I think he has resisted the urge to betray his own people.

On a personal level, I can never match him. He is a teetotaler, does not smoke and eschews all the debauchery that characterizes our leaders. Uhuru Kenyatta needs ten years of serious detoxification to reach Bob's level of mental tranquility. He is an avid reader and writer (who never publishes). I admire him. One of my proudest moments was to meet him in 2004.

Bob is only keeping his word.

He agreed to pay the farmers for any improvements and developments on the land. But vowed never to pay for the land. The farmers were granted IOUs which some refused to collect. The idea was that since sanctions had made it impossible to raise funds to pay them, Zim would pay when she can afford it. However the Land Reform program was to go ahead without British Money.

My guess is that real money is going to be paid for that land if Hero Bob wants certain problems solved.    This will have to be done, regardless of any tough talk and other heroics by Hero Bob.

By the way, if this is true, then it is amusing that black farmers will be paying rent for the land that was reclaimed for them:

"In a bid to make amends for his controversial land reform policy, Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe is set to collect land rentals from new black farmers to help compensate white farmers whose land was seized by his government.
...
Zimbabwe's Lands and Rural Resettlement Minister Douglas Mombeshora said commercial and communal land reform farm beneficiaries will - from this year - start paying rentals, with funds being channelled towards compensating former white farmers.
...
Mombeshora told the Masvingo provincial lands committee on Thursday that black commercial farmers would pay US$3 land rental per hectare and US$2 unit tax per hectare annually."

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/stnews/2015/05/10/mugabe-to-compensate-white-farmers-for-land-grabs

So.   Hero Bob got them back their land, but they must now pay rent so that the whites can get paid for the land.  What irony.

[MOON Ki]

There you go. You fell for white man's propaganda.

No, I did not.    Here is what you wrote above:

He agreed to pay the farmers for any improvements and developments on the land.

That idea was never going to work.    We can go back and forth on this one, but here it is:   Zim is going to end up paying real money for that land, and it won't be on Mugabe's terms.

[MOON Ki]

Does Uhuru Kenyatta collect rent from Lease Holders in Nairobi or are they Rates mandated by law? One can choose to twist and bend any fact to create the image of a mad man.

Sorry, you lost me somewhere.    Here is what I see: Comrade Bob manfully reclaimed land and gave it back to the people, as their land.  Their land to own.   And for that Bob has been declared a Hero, loved and admired by many.  But now the folks in Zim must pay rent on this their land that they own.   

[Omollo]

Bob has a bad press and it is not about to change now.

Does Uhuru Kenyatta collect rent from Lease Holders in Nairobi or are they Rates mandated by law? One can choose to twist and bend any fact to create the image of a mad man.

And yes, I consider Bob an African hero. I think he has resisted the urge to betray his own people.

On a personal level, I can never match him. He is a teetotaler, does not smoke and eschews all the debauchery that characterizes our leaders. Uhuru Kenyatta needs ten years of serious detoxification to reach Bob's level of mental tranquility. He is an avid reader and writer (who never publishes). I admire him. One of my proudest moments was to meet him in 2004.

Bob is only keeping his word.

He agreed to pay the farmers for any improvements and developments on the land. But vowed never to pay for the land. The farmers were granted IOUs which some refused to collect. The idea was that since sanctions had made it impossible to raise funds to pay them, Zim would pay when she can afford it. However the Land Reform program was to go ahead without British Money.

My guess is that real money is going to be paid for that land if Hero Bob wants certain problems solved.    This will have to be done, regardless of any tough talk and other heroics by Hero Bob.

By the way, if this is true, then it is amusing that black farmers will be paying rent for the land that was reclaimed for them:

"In a bid to make amends for his controversial land reform policy, Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe is set to collect land rentals from new black farmers to help compensate white farmers whose land was seized by his government.
...
Zimbabwe's Lands and Rural Resettlement Minister Douglas Mombeshora said commercial and communal land reform farm beneficiaries will - from this year - start paying rentals, with funds being channelled towards compensating former white farmers.
...
Mombeshora told the Masvingo provincial lands committee on Thursday that black commercial farmers would pay US$3 land rental per hectare and US$2 unit tax per hectare annually."

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/stnews/2015/05/10/mugabe-to-compensate-white-farmers-for-land-grabs

So.   Hero Bob got them back their land, but they must now pay rent so that the whites can get paid for the land.  What irony.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

On contrary Africans admire the west except when they are enslaving, colonizing and neo-colonizing them. That is where I draw the line. Otherwise we welcome west as tourist,donors, investors and friends. But they should come with clean hands. 

I do not see any shame in welcoming donations, business and western friendship.Mugabe is one smart fellow who clearly understands that. But if the choice is for some 6,000 folks to own 60% of the land acquired thro' dubious mean..then it an easy choice..damn the consequences.

When you talk about self-preservation....what political threat was mugabe facing during Tony Blaire time?

I recognize it is popular among some Africans when an African leader thumbs his nose at the west. 

During that period Mugabe was under serious threat from Morgan Tsvangirai and MDC.  The fog of time may make that seem incredible.  But he was on the brink of being ousted.

[Omollo]

No. I will answer you generally as I need to go.

There is land that was restored to the owners. I can't remember the cut off date but its from 1978 backwards to perhaps UDI, which would be around 1965.

There is land taken to ease the resettlement of peasants who may not have had land before.

There are commercial farms (mostly stolen communal and grazing lands) which have been leased to Africans. There are farms still owned and run by white farmers.

Sorry, you lost me somewhere.    Here is what I see: Comrade Bob manfully reclaimed land and gave it back to the people, as their land.  Their land to own.   And for that Bob has been declared a Hero, loved and admired by many.  But now the folks in Zim must pay rent on this their land that they own.