Sister Nyaatha To Be Beatified

[vooke]

Jesus knew what the prophets had said. If Maccabbees was right that the dead are conscious, Jesus would have been freely roaming Jerusalem for three days and three nights before the resurrection and assuring the distraught disciples that He wasn't really dead. 

Nonsensical reasoning. Consciousness beyond death is not derived from apocrypha. It is in the 66 books. Maccabaeus among other apocrypha Catholicism cling to them becausethey teaches praying FOR the the dead,stuff you NEVER find in scriptures. This later evolved to praying TO the dead, some christianized necromancy

I thought you had been delivered of the demon of ad hominem. You're splitting dead hairs here. What does "pray" mean? It means to implore, ask. When people ask Mary to pray for them, they are praying to her first, just like Mozambicans are reported to have prayed to Nyaatha for water to last them their period of suffering. "She" answered the prayer (asking) hence the canonization. Please post any of the 66 books which show consciousness in death and support your previous arguments against Bella's beliefs.

We have had this discussion before and if you haven't learnt anything, maybe you will never learn at all. Stick to what you know best; quoting Ellen White and peeing in your pants against your name coming up in the ongoing Investigative Judgement.

In case you never knew, Investigative Judgement inconsistencies with spirit consciousness forced your pioneers to drop one to retain the other. Which is quite unfortunate seeing IJ itself was invent d and developed to cover up a failed prophecy instead of admitting errors. Talk of removing a hole by cutting it off

[GeeMail]

We have had this discussion before and if you haven't learnt anything, maybe you will never learn at all. Stick to what you know best; quoting Ellen White and peeing in your pants against your name coming up in the ongoing Investigative Judgement.

In case you never knew, Investigative Judgement inconsistencies with spirit consciousness forced your pioneers to drop one to retain the other. Which is quite unfortunate seeing IJ itself was invent d and developed to cover up a failed prophecy instead of admitting errors. Talk of removing a hole by cutting it off

You need to accept deliverance from the demon of ad hominem (or seven worse ones recently just moved in?). Before moving off tangent to investigative judgment, please post the 66 verses showing the dead should be prayed FOR. If you accept the dead are prayed for what is your problem with Bella's position of praying TO them?

[Bella]

Kadame,
Can't put it better than Jesus
'the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah,'

Blood of ALL prophets shed from the foundation of the world FROM Abel TO Zechariah. The two are reference points; them and all between them. It would have been absurd/illogical if outside the ALL from Abel to Zechariah you had others

Point remains,
Jesus defined ALL, am with Jesus on this one

I don't think Jesus is with you, though. If he was defining ALL the prophets, where would you place St. John the Baptist, the greatest of them all, according to Jesus?

The problem is you are trying to force Jesus to say things he never did, so you are making Jesus contradict Jesus in order to help vooke make a point. That whole verse in context:

Woe to you! You build the memorials of the prophets whom your ancestors killed. 48 Consequently, you bear witness and give consent to the deeds of your ancestors, for they killed them and you do the building. 49 Therefore, the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles; some of them they will kill and persecute' 50 in order that this generation might be charged with the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who died between the altar and the temple building. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be charged with their blood!

Jesus condemning Pharisees for pretending to honour prophets whose example they did not follow, it is to these prophets honoured by pharisees that "ALL" refers to. 

kadame,
John had just been slain and there was no record of John in the Hebrew canon. Jesus himself excluded himself from that. On the other hand, the apocrypha had existed for hundreds of years before he said this word. This verse clearly shows what Jesus deemed as prophets and who he didn't.

Apocrypha are good for historical value but zero doctrine. Deriving a doctrine from there at the expense of the scriptures is desperation incarnate.

vooke, those reasons you've cited are good reasons why your interpretation is false. Jesus was not even talking about a canon of scripture. He simply referred to prophets whom the Pharisees honoured. It was YOU who claimed that Jesus' use of ALL amounts to an exhaustive list of prophets. Its clearly not. Therefore the whole point is moot. Jesus was talking to people who recognized certain people as "all" the prophets, clearly not recognizing either him or John, he was not binding himself to their beliefs but rather debating them on their own terms, exactly as he did with sadduccees.

You have no basis to say what is scripture. Jesus lived in a time in which the Septuagint was read in virtually all synagogues on Saturdays, assuming he saw that and never condemned it, IS what is desperation, something yo can only assume if you already accept the later canon of Pharisees done to counter Christian claims about Jesus being the Messiah.

[vooke]

We have had this discussion before and if you haven't learnt anything, maybe you will never learn at all. Stick to what you know best; quoting Ellen White and peeing in your pants against your name coming up in the ongoing Investigative Judgement.

In case you never knew, Investigative Judgement inconsistencies with spirit consciousness forced your pioneers to drop one to retain the other. Which is quite unfortunate seeing IJ itself was invent d and developed to cover up a failed prophecy instead of admitting errors. Talk of removing a hole by cutting it off

You need to accept deliverance from the demon of ad hominem (or seven worse ones recently just moved in?). Before moving off tangent to investigative judgment, please post the 66 verses showing the dead should be prayed FOR. If you accept the dead are prayed for what is your problem with Bella's position of praying TO them?

The only sin greater than worshipping a dead mad woman is bankruptcy of comprehension.
Who said the dead should be prayed for?

I said the only reason apocrypha are beloved by Catholicism is because they are the source of some catholic doctrines not found in other scriptures including praying to saints.

Praying to saints first started with praying FOR the dead. This mutated to praying TO the dead. Both are unscriptural

[vooke]

Kadame,
Can't put it better than Jesus
'the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah,'

Blood of ALL prophets shed from the foundation of the world FROM Abel TO Zechariah. The two are reference points; them and all between them. It would have been absurd/illogical if outside the ALL from Abel to Zechariah you had others

Point remains,
Jesus defined ALL, am with Jesus on this one

I don't think Jesus is with you, though. If he was defining ALL the prophets, where would you place St. John the Baptist, the greatest of them all, according to Jesus?

The problem is you are trying to force Jesus to say things he never did, so you are making Jesus contradict Jesus in order to help vooke make a point. That whole verse in context:

Woe to you! You build the memorials of the prophets whom your ancestors killed. 48 Consequently, you bear witness and give consent to the deeds of your ancestors, for they killed them and you do the building. 49 Therefore, the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles; some of them they will kill and persecute' 50 in order that this generation might be charged with the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who died between the altar and the temple building. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be charged with their blood!

Jesus condemning Pharisees for pretending to honour prophets whose example they did not follow, it is to these prophets honoured by pharisees that "ALL" refers to. 

kadame,
John had just been slain and there was no record of John in the Hebrew canon. Jesus himself excluded himself from that. On the other hand, the apocrypha had existed for hundreds of years before he said this word. This verse clearly shows what Jesus deemed as prophets and who he didn't.

Apocrypha are good for historical value but zero doctrine. Deriving a doctrine from there at the expense of the scriptures is desperation incarnate.

vooke, those reasons you've cited are good reasons why your interpretation is false. Jesus was not even talking about a canon of scripture. He simply referred to prophets whom the Pharisees honoured. It was YOU who claimed that Jesus' use of ALL amounts to an exhaustive list of prophets. Its clearly not. Therefore the whole point is moot. Jesus was talking to people who recognized certain people as "all" the prophets, clearly not recognizing either him or John, he was not binding himself to their beliefs but rather debating them on their own terms, exactly as he did with sadduccees.

You have no basis to say what is scripture. Jesus lived in a time in which the Septuagint was read in virtually all synagogues on Saturdays, assuming he saw that and never condemned it, IS what is desperation, something yo can only assume if you already accept the later canon of Pharisees done to counter Christian claims about Jesus being the Messiah.

nice try.
If they never honored the intertesamental prophets, then that's more a reason to include them here if they were really sent of God! the point was these guys were resisting God's message by killing the messengers.

The apocrypha were for good reasons kept by themselves outside the Hebrew canon. Jesus lambasting the Jews for killing prophets just mentions prophets in the Hebrew canon. Tells me all I need to know about apocrypha; whatever they be, they are no scriptures.

PS: do you think they were killing prophets in apocrypha? It's quite possible they stopped killing them right after captivity....just giving a reason why apocrypha prophets were duly ignored; they was not slain