Author Topic: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says  (Read 4265 times)

Offline RV Heavy Hitter!

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2022, 08:31:40 PM »
When rugby 7s used to be in Vegas used to go there every year.
All Casinos and hotels were filled up with Chinese . They run Vegas

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The US on it's own is about 20yrs from seeking aid from China :).

Only person who would make such a silly statement is one who has never been to either China or the US.  The US is not going down in our lifetimes. China is a shithole country (go there and see for yourself)

Warrent Buffet has to remind people every year to never bet against the US.  As much as people want it to happen, the US is the greatest country on earth and will remain so for the next 500 years or more ( no one is even close to it. Citing China or india is just a joke)
Lol, an Immigrants arriving in the US today can have a living standard better than 900 million Chinese living in China after getting a $15 minimum wage Job. It could be the reason why Chinese in the US commit suicide on the spot when threaten with deportation!
Those are Americans, though they are Chinese. We also have black folks that look like Kenyans, but they have been in the US since 15th century. Every race, creed, and nationality thrives here in America with minimal effort; that, my friend, speaks to the richness of mighty USA!
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Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2022, 09:05:56 PM »
RVHH are you serious ?

When rugby 7s used to be in Vegas used to go there every year.
All Casinos and hotels were filled up with Chinese . They run Vegas

Quote
The US on it's own is about 20yrs from seeking aid from China :).

Only person who would make such a silly statement is one who has never been to either China or the US.  The US is not going down in our lifetimes. China is a shithole country (go there and see for yourself)

Warrent Buffet has to remind people every year to never bet against the US.  As much as people want it to happen, the US is the greatest country on earth and will remain so for the next 500 years or more ( no one is even close to it. Citing China or india is just a joke)
Lol, an Immigrants arriving in the US today can have a living standard better than 900 million Chinese living in China after getting a $15 minimum wage Job. It could be the reason why Chinese in the US commit suicide on the spot when threaten with deportation!
Those are Americans, though they are Chinese. We also have black folks that look like Kenyans, but they have been in the US since 15th century. Every race, creed, and nationality thrives here in America with minimal effort; that, my friend, speaks to the richness of mighty USA!

Offline RV Heavy Hitter!

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2022, 09:22:45 PM »
China with 24 trillion economy and  1.5 billion people and US with 21 trillion with 300 million people!. When China hits 100 trillion, it will start coming close to the US on all fronts. I have cousins who lived in China for five years and graduated from Chinese colleges. They wish they could set foot in the US because, according to them, China and Kenya's living standards are about the same outside Beijing, Shanghai and gleaming cities. There are over 400 million Chinese living with lower living standards than people in Nyanza or mukuru kwa Njenga. Why do you think Chinese are all over Zamunda doing manual jobs and being hawkers in Zambia, Djibouti, etc.? Why are the Chinese and Russians still thronging to the US as illegal immigrants like the rest of the world? Why is China not transparent like the US? Don't believe the hype; believe Africans who are in China. There are 800 million Chinese living under $6 dollars a day and 200 million living under $ 3 a day. America decline remains a myth!

The degree to which Chinese economic dominance will dwarf American's in a few decades will shock people like you, stuck in denialism, into premature white hair. :) Its not just about eclipsing the US. That's a foregone conclusion by now. By 2050, it'll be something like three times the US economy if I remember correctly. Mutashangaa sana. Dunia imebadilika! But as Pundit tells you here, it's actually just returning to the status quo that predominated for centuries before the recent Western colonial phase which is actually very short when you see it in context.
Your argument sounds like what the half-baked economists published in the 1970s. Most predicted China to surpass the US by the early 90s. In 2022, 600 million Chinese, almost half, still live under 5 dollars a day like most people in Kenyan villages. China rose in the last decade because of free resources and imperialism throughout Africa. Still, when Mwafrica wakes up, China will resort to default state, a third-world country with millions living in abject poverty! The US has integrated economies in 50 states that can withstand global economic shocks. 150 years and running...
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/takeover-trap-why-imperialist-china-invading-africa-66421
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Offline RV Heavy Hitter!

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #43 on: July 18, 2022, 09:38:40 PM »
RVHH are you serious ?
Dead serious, sir!. Casinos in Las Vegas are owned by Sands Corps, MGM grand resorts, and Caesar Entertainment by large measure; American companies own 90% of Las Vegas Casinos! The people you see there that look like Chinese are round-headed native Americans that work in those casinos and have gambling problems.
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Las Vegas Sands Corp. is an American casino and resort company with a corporate headquarters in Paradise, Nevada, United States. Their corporate mission is to create "Integrated Resorts" which feature a combination of gambling, accommodation, retail, and meeting space

MGM Resorts International is an American global hospitality and entertainment company operating destination resorts in Las Vegas, Massachusetts, Detroit, Mississippi, Maryland, and New Jersey, including Bellagio, Mandalay Bay, MGM Grand, and Park MGM.

Caesars Entertainment, Inc., formerly Eldorado Resorts, Inc., is an American hotel and casino entertainment company founded and based in Reno, Nevada that operates more than 50 properties. Eldorado Resorts acquired Caesars Entertainment Corporation and changed its own name to Caesars Entertainment on July 20, 2020.
https://tynmagazine.com/meet-the-six-companies-that-own-the-most-casinos-in-vegas-and-beyond/
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Offline Fairandbalanced

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #44 on: July 18, 2022, 10:34:05 PM »

Offline sema

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2022, 10:34:12 PM »
Closed societies like China and Russia ruled by dictators will never defeat an open society like the US that allows freedom, creativity, innovation, rule of law and democracy. only a fool would trust the economic numbers being put out there by the CCP.  Ive been to China - RV heavy hitter is right -- outside of beijing and shanghai it's a shithole.  All I saw were nyama choma joints with donkey meat advertised.

There's a reason US colleges are filled with chinese students that don't want to leave America (come see for yourself and these are the top 1% of China, not the low level one's you get in Kenya that are hawking and they're not leaving because they can't live in that communist state after they've tasted freedom) -- go to any college campus in the US, they're filled with young rich chinese students who stay and work (on wall street, in silicon valley, etc, etc) and whose goal is to become US citizens.

I have yet to met any immigrant that has told me their dream is to leave America and immigrate to China or russia  :D :D :D

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most of those writing about its demise do it from the ivory towers o

No. they do it from 3rd world shithole countries that they've never let. Only a fool would trust the yuan or rubble. lol those are criminal corrupt states.

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2022, 11:29:13 PM »

Conservatives suffer from anti-China jitters than literally everyone and they are more invested in American hegemony than your average liberal., don't know what you're going on about. And when was Tony Blair a conversative? You guys just suffer from the hubris of American exceptionalism. I don't know any serious observer who at this point doubts that China is eclipsing the US already. Everything happening in Eastern Europe is all geared to either fight or minimize that Chinese threat. They just chose the wrong strategy with Russia, assuming it'd be easy to kill it off with economic ostracism. Instead, they've guaranteed Russian subservience to China.

PS: You are a Kenyan posting about silly Kenyans doing what you're doing in the very thread in which you complain about it. A true Kenyan, indeed. :D If you truly considered this a silly exercise, wouldn't the best response be avoiding engaging in it yourself? :D

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2022, 01:43:58 AM »
On my part I don't get the denialism of most immigrants. I know the US is great - I studied, live and work here. Noone is saying China is "better" morally or lifewise: this is about trends. In terms of geopolitics or superpower status, per capita or HDI means little, otherwise Qatar, Singapore and Switzerland would be top 3. Overall national strength is what matters. Ukrainians are probably richer than Russians but get kicked like kids.

US strategists including Blinken, Sullivan, Lloyd Austin, CGS Milley - all the elites - are constantly pouting over the China threat. Even Elon Musk or Bill Gates says it. This is not a Nipate invention.

This is about global power politics. Not individual citizens. China's rise does not threaten our beautiful lives... in the near future. We will retire rich. Maybe akina Pundit's kids might immigrate to China and not the west.  :)
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Offline RV Heavy Hitter!

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2022, 05:40:47 AM »
It looks like we've reached a firm impasse on this topic. Most folks are above 40, so convincing them otherwise is like jamming Coupe Decale to mountain Billy goats. I think my experience of 20 years in the US gives me the latitude to provide the best opinion based on my experiences. The West's classic liberalism, economic freedom, Ironclad institutions, and fair democracy cannot be compared with tyrant countries ruled by 'strong men.' As a rule of thumb, as evidence shows, with such exceptionality, the US has been the world's leader on all fronts for the last 100 years. Thanks, we agree on that gate somewhat! The fact that we are debating that another country is about to overtake the US means the US is still the King!
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2022, 05:42:15 AM »
It's more of I don't like or live in china so china can't be great...China rise is inevitable.its 1.5b people country.Its just need to at it 1/5 best to beat US.If it matches US per Capita they will be five times bigger and they working towards it.China has always been the dragon..west took mantle with industrialization.China now leads in that sector...so the dragon is back.China is by default a superpower.

Offline Kadudu

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2022, 09:44:56 AM »
That sums it all. :D :D :D

We can make noise here, but in the end effect this is what matters.

Why do even refugees in the Middle East apply for visas in Europe and the US? Never heard of any wanting to go to China or Russia.

Closed societies like China and Russia ruled by dictators will never defeat an open society like the US that allows freedom, creativity, innovation, rule of law and democracy. only a fool would trust the economic numbers being put out there by the CCP.  Ive been to China - RV heavy hitter is right -- outside of beijing and shanghai it's a shithole.  All I saw were nyama choma joints with donkey meat advertised.

There's a reason US colleges are filled with chinese students that don't want to leave America (come see for yourself and these are the top 1% of China, not the low level one's you get in Kenya that are hawking and they're not leaving because they can't live in that communist state after they've tasted freedom) -- go to any college campus in the US, they're filled with young rich chinese students who stay and work (on wall street, in silicon valley, etc, etc) and whose goal is to become US citizens.

I have yet to met any immigrant that has told me their dream is to leave America and immigrate to China or russia  :D :D :D

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2022, 10:20:17 AM »
It looks like we've reached a firm impasse on this topic. Most folks are above 40, so convincing them otherwise is like jamming Coupe Decale to mountain Billy goats. I think my experience of 20 years in the US gives me the latitude to provide the best opinion based on my experiences. The West's classic liberalism, economic freedom, Ironclad institutions, and fair democracy cannot be compared with tyrant countries ruled by 'strong men.' As a rule of thumb, as evidence shows, with such exceptionality, the US has been the world's leader on all fronts for the last 100 years. Thanks, we agree on that gate somewhat! The fact that we are debating that another country is about to overtake the US means the US is still the King!

The US is the leading World economy. It has been so since the World Wars which saw the decline of the European colonial powers. No one is denying that. Would that not be a very silly thing to do?  :D That we are now in the era of its toppling from that spot is also fast becoming similarly undebatable. It's now only $ 5 trillion removed from the D-Date. https://databank.worldbank.org/data/download/GDP.pdf It was $ 8 trillion removed just a blink ago. Think back to pre-Covid numbers. My friend, that's a breathtaking speed! And it's because while the US economy has hardly grown, basically plateauing, China's is still ballooning. Denialism in the face of this is odd to me. In the next three/four years, this will be over. After that, China will begin to run away with the race. 20/30 years from now, it will be overlaps and what not. Iyo ndio ukweli.

As to living stds and whatnot, as a person who was resident in Europe for a while, I know for a fact they beat you guys in that department several times over. Yet they are far less powerful than you. So that 'metric' is not relevant to this discussion, which is about global dominance. Migrants will always move to better conditions as they are advertised and exist realistically. But don't assume the Chinese are not absorbing huge numbers of migrants in their own right; Migrants also move for opportunity. So that would be a wrong assumption as well.

Another thing I noticed in Continental Europe that is hardly ever brought up in these discussions is the signficance of language barriers in immigrant choices. Look for Kenyans in Belgium and surrounding countries. They are there . . . but they're not popping up under every rock. Instead, West Africans are all over France/Belgium etc. But move over to the UK (and US, Canada, Aussi etc) and there are mini colonies of Kenyans there.  :D Vast communities. Big enough to even be ethnically defined! I went to a 'Gusii' area in the US that reminded me of Kisii town, not even Nai! :D The thick accents, yawa. Exactly like my older relatives in shags. To be fair, it was an SDA church. Still! An SDA church with what seemed like 90% Gusii congregants is a really surreal experience to bump into in the Big US of A. That's because Kenyans will move in huge numbers to the anglosphere but not so to other places: I think that's a reasonable conclusion to make.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2022, 11:09:13 AM »
Liking a country and recognizing simple fact like it's superpower influence globally totally two different things.To be a superpower means having global outreach and influence.China doesn't need any immigrants or popularity..it already has 1.5B out 7b humans.Learn to live with China.Learn to live with less powerful western countries.Take advantage of Chinese opportunities.They are the future.Teach your kid mandarin they will need it. Their future bosses and partners will be Chinese.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2022, 08:38:24 PM »
and China has many immigrants. Just not on US or European scale yet. From ASEAN - Myanmar, Indonesia, Philippines, etc - and definitely many Africans are studying and working there.

Personally I have received lots of spam from Thousand Talents and such "China green card" programs.

Liking a country and recognizing simple fact like it's superpower influence globally totally two different things.To be a superpower means having global outreach and influence.China doesn't need any immigrants or popularity..it already has 1.5B out 7b humans.Learn to live with China.Learn to live with less powerful western countries.Take advantage of Chinese opportunities.They are the future.Teach your kid mandarin they will need it. Their future bosses and partners will be Chinese.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline RV Heavy Hitter!

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2022, 11:35:04 PM »
It looks like we've reached a firm impasse on this topic. Most folks are above 40, so convincing them otherwise is like jamming Coupe Decale to mountain Billy goats. I think my experience of 20 years in the US gives me the latitude to provide the best opinion based on my experiences. The West's classic liberalism, economic freedom, Ironclad institutions, and fair democracy cannot be compared with tyrant countries ruled by 'strong men.' As a rule of thumb, as evidence shows, with such exceptionality, the US has been the world's leader on all fronts for the last 100 years. Thanks, we agree on that gate somewhat! The fact that we are debating that another country is about to overtake the US means the US is still the King!

The US is the leading World economy. It has been so since the World Wars which saw the decline of the European colonial powers. No one is denying that. Would that not be a very silly thing to do?  :D That we are now in the era of its toppling from that spot is also fast becoming similarly undebatable. It's now only $ 5 trillion removed from the D-Date. https://databank.worldbank.org/data/download/GDP.pdf It was $ 8 trillion removed just a blink ago. Think back to pre-Covid numbers. My friend, that's a breathtaking speed! And it's because while the US economy has hardly grown, basically plateauing, China's is still ballooning. Denialism in the face of this is odd to me. In the next three/four years, this will be over. After that, China will begin to run away with the race. 20/30 years from now, it will be overlaps and what not. Iyo ndio ukweli.

As to living stds and whatnot, as a person who was resident in Europe for a while, I know for a fact they beat you guys in that department several times over. Yet they are far less powerful than you. So that 'metric' is not relevant to this discussion, which is about global dominance. Migrants will always move to better conditions as they are advertised and exist realistically. But don't assume the Chinese are not absorbing huge numbers of migrants in their own right; Migrants also move for opportunity. So that would be a wrong assumption as well.

Another thing I noticed in Continental Europe that is hardly ever brought up in these discussions is the signficance of language barriers in immigrant choices. Look for Kenyans in Belgium and surrounding countries. They are there . . . but they're not popping up under every rock. Instead, West Africans are all over France/Belgium etc. But move over to the UK (and US, Canada, Aussi etc) and there are mini colonies of Kenyans there.  :D Vast communities. Big enough to even be ethnically defined! I went to a 'Gusii' area in the US that reminded me of Kisii town, not even Nai! :D The thick accents, yawa. Exactly like my older relatives in shags. To be fair, it was an SDA church. Still! An SDA church with what seemed like 90% Gusii congregants is a really surreal experience to bump into in the Big US of A. That's because Kenyans will move in huge numbers to the anglosphere but not so to other places: I think that's a reasonable conclusion to make.
Lol, you have gone to the gutter with your holloipolloi; that leads to an uninformed conclusion. Freedom, religious or economic, in the USA makes this a wonderful country great. Kenyans here are living like they are in Kenya. They can build their churches and live within their communities or choose to integrate/associate. There is nothing wrong with Kissii and their SDA churches in the US. The free market economy here is so robust any immigrant can work hard in a year or two and be as wealthy as Americans that have been here for generations. All it takes is the brain, hard work, and respecting the country's laws. Standard of living? Kenyans here, especially those who came ten or more years ago, are living extraordinary lives. I may have my biases because I keep it to myself and my small family, but the few Kenyans I know are living large, so I don't know anyone who would criticize the US, especially on living standards, work, justice, freedom, etc. According to my experiences, the US is a perfect country; in my opinion, especially if you don't drink, you want to commit to raising a family and thriving economically.

Did you read this on US and China? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-20/us-growth-seen-outpacing-china-s-for-first-time-since-1976. US economy is booming and growing as usual. The figures from tyrant countries are not available publicly to be interrogated. We are suppose to believe what they spew and use it for debate. I have two cousins in China. They want to come to America like yesterday because small-town china and villages are worse than Nyaribari Chache or Chebarbar! The thing is, according to my cousin, you land on a gleaming city and get on the bus, or train. An hour later, peeping through the window, you think you are in Laini Saba Kibra! 20/30 years? That was what was exactly said in 1980s. 90s came and passed. Now there is another 20 to 30 years to go?. I think 100 years or so is a good timeline.

The thing about the US is that it is a country of long-time immigrants and new arrivals from all over the globe. You get to hear opinions from a diverse group of people. My Neighbors are Kisiis, Iraqis, Chinese, Arabs, Whites from England, African Americans, Taiwanese, Old Wazungus, Mexicans, etc. What keeps all these people in common are the love for the United States, order, the rule of law, and the opportunity to make serious money and live in peace. The US is a country you can leave your door unlocked and go to Kenya for two months and come home to find everything the way you left. My Saudi Arabian neighbors who have lived in the US for 40 years love the US more than regular wazungus, mainly because of religious freedom. They can wear their clothing, bike in the neighborhood, and never get bullied or feel unwelcomed their entire decades in the US. This, not the superficial things, is what makes the place great. Folks that criticize or find flaws in the US most of the time have made bad choices, messed up their lives, or are incompetent folks who cannot see opportunities to thrive.
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Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Dominance of West is coming to an end, former UK PM says
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2022, 02:52:14 AM »
Lol, you have gone to the gutter with your holloipolloi; that leads to an uninformed conclusion. Freedom, religious or economic, in the USA makes this a wonderful country great. Kenyans here are living like they are in Kenya.

You're funny. :D I just compared the huge, eye-popping presence of Kenyans in the Western anglosphere to their comparatively diminished presence in the non-English speaking West and you're here saying it's all about freedom.  :) Iko shida gani na wewe? What civics are they teaching you that tells you the Belgians, Dutch, Germans, French, Scandinavians etc., are busy arresting Kenyans and stopping them from meeting in their own churches?  :D Rafiki . . . Think!

PS; There are far, far, FAR more francophone Africans and Arabs in French-speaking Western countries (France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland) than anglophone Africans. Those mini colonies of Africans (and Arabs) exist there as well: they're just not made up of Kenyans, Nigerians, etc (or even Indians and Pakistanis, for that matter) :D For these you go to the UK or North America.

Language and colonial ties do indeed factor a lot into some of these migration patterns, along with geographical accessibility. No one is saying they're the only factors that matter, though. I brought it up because it's hardly ever discussed when people talk of migration into other countries. :)