Kidero Screwed Up Mumias; Nairobi Watch Out

[Omollo]

I had not seen that point. Asking Nairobians to do it themselves when you have already collected money from them is close to criminal. Karen Langata did obtain orders from a court to stop them from collecting taxes from residents. The Karengata association did instead collect the taxes, used some of them prudently and kept the receipts and the balance for every month. I don't know if they are now paying.

only crazily incompetent govts and their agencies collect taxes and then start passing the buck back to the same taxpayers .... blah blah start with you

I stopped at (1) and then considered a different question: Why can't Kenyans, especially Nairobians, do it themselves?    There is something terribly wrong when people are unable or unwilling to clean their living environment and instead choose to live in filth.   

[/quote]

[MOON Ki]

only crazily incompetent govts and their agencies collect taxes and then start passing the buck back to the same taxpayers .... blah blah start with you

That is interesting.   Presumably the government and agencies that collect taxes would, if they were competent, be employing people to do the job properly.    And presumably those people would be Kenyans/Nairobians trained and equipped to do the job?   Or did you have it mind that the bureaucrats themselves should come out of their offices and do the work?   Here, where I live, we don't have a filth problem, and the people who do the collection and cleaning are also people who live in the city but employed do such work; nobody would dream of international tenders for such work.

[gout]

as uhuru was riding in matatus Mutua was acting on machakos garbage ...... this is why we pay the scum bureaucrats top dollar

Machakos Governor Alfred Mutua on Wednesday suspended several city officials with immediate effect after visiting Machakos town and finding garbage dumps. - See more at: http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/alfred-mutua-irked-machakos-town-garbage-dumps-suspends-county-officials#sthash.ZXsWUEUz.dpuf

http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/alfred-mutua-irked-machakos-town-garbage-dumps-suspends-county-officials
https://www.facebook.com/MachakosGovernor

[Omollo]

MoonKi

You can be smallish and rather frivolous. I think I have had it and now lets go.

I notice your near derogatory reference to "International tender". Looks like your problem is "International". Perhaps you want it limited to a national tender or better still - "tribal tender"? We know where similar "National" and "Tribal" tenders took the Kenya Railways or is it the Rift Valley Railways?

You should demand to know my reasons for asking for an international tender rather than resorting to mockery and innuendo. Better still come up with better ideas. I mean better than hiring a few poor people to colect your garbage and calling that a solution for the entire Nairobi. Many people are drowning under the weight of uncollected garbage - even though they have paid for the disposal of the same.

Of course I too have my garbage collected but do have to clean around my own compound not to mention inside. Who told you some "internationals" will come to clean your garbage because "locals" can't do it.

By advertising something internationally, it does not lock out locals or "non Internationals", so there is no reason for tears, weeping, cheap nationalism or mockery.

The objective of such a wide tender is to obtain the best deal. We have seen subterfuge at work with advertisements hidden from view all to go through the motions of fulfilling the legal requirements.

At worst Nairobians should continue to pay what is already collected by the county for water and sewage. At best Nairobians should see real gains and profit from their garbage. This can come in form of power generation (from wood and other combustible materials); Biogas; Recycling of plastics, metal, glass and soil. Some of the garbage can be sold. For example Britain exports tons of its garbage to Denmark and Sweden where it it used for heating. There is a market for it. There is money to make from garbage and Nairobians should benefit from it by sharing the profits with the garbage collecting firm. Need I go in to the environmental benefits of this arrangement? If done properly, Nairobi could "sell" carbon credits to polluters and make a real killing to ease the burden of tax and improve the infrastructure.

These things cannot be done by your two flea-beaten workers who clean after you. This is a complex solution to cover the entire Nairobi. Of course if you bothered to read what I wrote earlier (something you confessed to not reading at all), you would seen not just an outline of the garbage collection, recycling and cash and resource generation but plans for the daily cleaning of the city. In fact I mean washing of the roads and pavements.

Now let me remind you that right now as we speak, there is an army of persons employed to collect garbage. In fact those jobs have been shifting from parent to child even before independence. They are the ones I referred to as "broom leaning" rubble. There are also hundreds of ghost cleaners, earning money for work not done. Nairobi is not dirty because it has not employed enough cleaners. There more cleaners than are needed. Otherwise we would hear of such a shortage and send failed graduate police recruitment applicants over there.

What I suggested and have done it before, is that these human beings should be deployed elsewhere if they cannot be laid off. In their place, we should have machines. Big motorised vacuum cleaners. It is nothing new in Kenya. Road builders have some of them which they use to clean sweep their roads while under construction. By my estimate one machine can work the entire CBD in one night.

There is nowhere I have suggested that a company that secures the contract herd in foreigners to clean our garbage as you now insinuate rather cleverly. The country has laws on who can work. Even if it is a foreign company, it is Kenyans who will end up doing the job. May be a Kenyan company will outbid everybody, who knows? I would rather you expended your energy in questioning the one-sided mass migration of Indians to Kenya while no Kenyan is allowed to migrate to India. Advocate for bilateral agreement.

Lastly, feel free to float an international tender for the cleaning of your neighborhood. I hope there will be takers. I did not have in mind such simple work.

Perhaps the idea is too complex for you. You are comfortable with smaller local ideas.

That is interesting.   Presumably the government and agencies that collect taxes would, if they were competent, be employing people to do the job properly.    And presumably those people would be Kenyans/Nairobians trained and equipped to do the job?   Or did you have it mind that the bureaucrats themselves should come out of their offices and do the work?   Here, where I live, we don't have a filth problem, and the people who do the collection and cleaning are also people who live in the city but employed do such work; nobody would dream of international tenders for such work.

[MOON Ki]

MoonKi

You can be smallish and rather frivolous. I think I have had it and now lets go.

Omollo:

You seem a bit unhappy.   Please calm down.    All I was trying to do was clarify that when I referred to Kenyans (especially Nairobians) doing the work---at whatever level---I simply meant people who live there (not necessarily the average man-in-the-street) and that it was unreasonable for you and your buddy to suggest a "criminal" mind, as in

I had not seen that point. Asking Nairobians to do it themselves when you have already collected money from them is close to criminal.

You note that

I mean better than hiring a few poor people to colect your garbage and calling that a solution for the entire Nairobi. Many people are drowning under the weight of uncollected garbage - even though they have paid for the disposal of the same.

The garbage won't be collecting itself; so we may assume that people will have to be hired to do it.   My point is that (a) those people should be Kenyans, and (b) they should do a good job.  There are cities in the world that are larger but cleaner than Nairobi, and they don't have such a problem with garbage; so I don't understand your point about how a "few poor people" (which was not my suggestion) will not work for "the entire Nairobi".  In any case, and regardless of the worth of your idea, I don't see Nairobi hiring international garbage collectors; so we should look for another solution.   

Who told you some "internationals" will come to clean your garbage because "locals" can't do it.

That was a suggestion from Omollo:

1. Float an international tender to any firm that would collect garbage and recycle the same;

If it can all be done by Kenyans, then what would be the point of the international tender?

You also add:

Now let me remind you that right now as we speak, there is an army of persons employed to collect garbage. In fact those jobs have been shifting from parent to child even before independence. They are the ones I referred to as "broom leaning" rubble. There are also hundreds of ghost cleaners, earning money for work not done. Nairobi is not dirty because it has not employed enough cleaners. There more cleaners than are needed. Otherwise we would hear of such a shortage and send failed graduate police recruitment applicants over there.

The problem then is to get those people to do the work they are paid to do.  Perhaps that would require better equipment, better training, or more coercion.    But I don't see how an international garbage-collection tender is necessarily the best solution.  To my mind, the problem with laziness and low productivity is  best solved at the source, not by outsourcing.  If one goes with the "outsourcing" solution, then one might as well put out an international tender for the running of everything in Kenya; after all it is not just in garbage-collection that the above "personnel problems" arise.   I believe that Kenyans can do the job--in whatever way you intend the "international" to work---and the real problem is to figure out how to get them to do it.

Perhaps the idea is too complex for you.

Perhaps.   Certainly, my basic position here is a simple one: There is nothing hugely complicated about cleaning up Nairobi; all that is required is sufficient will and effort by the people who live there and their  elected representatives.   And if the former wish to blame the latter for the continuing piling-up of rubbish, then they should finally start electing a better lot; as it stands, some of the elected leaders (even senators and so on) would not  be hired as garbage collectors elsewhere. 

Yes, in some things I am comfortable with small, local ideas that actually work ... although  "small, local" could be huge.

[vooke]

There is an al shabaab who told us that they used to lend billions to Mumias on condition that the company would hoard sugar for a few weeks creating an artificial shortage. The thugz would then release imported sugar into the market and make a killing. Al shabaab are Okoyus

[kadame]

Well, I am with Omollo on this one. We can complain until we are blue in the face that Kenyans are not like bazungu, but at the end of the day, we have to find solutions that work for us, not be constantly whining that other people manage to do it one particular way without problems. Especially if you are the governor and have only a short term, you must get creative. Which means you must know your environment, what obstacles you face and how to get around them to get work done, in this case, a clean, functional city with efficient delivery of basic services.

As for garbage, I used to hear there is a lot of money that goes into private hands over Nairobi garbage. The rumour back in the day at around 2007 was that Esther Passaris lost Embakasi to the Waititus because of the "threat" to move that Dandora dumpsite elsewhere. Very rich people don't want that. Why? At that time, word o the street was that some people made 200 million shillings monthly from that dumpsite.  I have never known how people are rich off of garbage  but if there is money to be made there, the city/county should look into making some of that money for itself.

[MOON Ki]

Well, I am with Omollo on this one. We can complain until we are blue in the face that Kenyans are not like bazungu, but at the end of the day, we have to find solutions that work for us, not be constantly whining that other people manage to do it one particular way without problems. Especially if you are the governor and have only a short term, you must get creative. Which means you must know your environment, what obstacles you face and how to get around them to get work done, in this case, a clean, functional city with efficient delivery of basic services.

As for garbage, I used to hear there is a lot of money that goes into private hands over Nairobi garbage. The rumour back in the day at around 2007 was that Esther Passaris lost Embakasi to the Waititus because of the "threat" to move that Dandora dumpsite elsewhere. Very rich people don't want that. Why? At that time, word o the street was that some people made 200 million shillings monthly from that dumpsite.  I have never known how people are rich off of garbage  but if there is money to be made there, the city/county should look into making some of that money for itself.

[MOON Ki]

Well, I am with Omollo on this one. We can complain until we are blue in the face that Kenyans are not like bazungu, but at the end of the day, we have to find solutions that work for us, not be constantly whining that other people manage to do it one particular way without problems. Especially if you are the governor and have only a short term, you must get creative. Which means you must know your environment, what obstacles you face and how to get around them to get work done, in this case, a clean, functional city with efficient delivery of basic services.

I'm pretty sure there is going to be no international tender for garbage collection in Nairobi.   So sure, I am prepared to bet on it.   Any takers?  That means "solutions that work for us" will have to be something else.

Fortunately, there is a "creative" solution, and it happens to be exactly what people claimed I was suggesting to start with: the people---yes, the taxpayers who are owed services---can do it themselves.   Complain and demand services?   Absolutely.   But clean up.   To sit and say, "I've paid my taxes; so I will live in filth until Kidero does something" makes little sense.

Also it must not be assumed that any talk of people keeping their city clean necessarily means a reference to wazungu.   We need to move beyond that type of mentality.

In Africa, folks in Rwanda manage to keep their city clean, and amazingly enough, the "taxpayers who are owned services" do a large part of the work:

"In Kigali City, Rwanda, the last Saturday of each month, is a compulsory day of cleaning, when all business comes to a stop in Kigali City, Rwanda. Everyone including the President partakes in cleaning the city ..."

"Keeping our streets clean, keeping our homesteads clean, ourselves clean, is not something we need to go out looking for resources. It is something we have within ourselves, why not start from that? It becomes a culture, it becomes a way of life."
- Paul Kagame, Rwandan President

"We cannot talk about the development of this country when we don't take care of the cleanliness."
- Rose Mukankomeje, Director, Rwanda Environmental Management Agency

http://www.sunwords.com/2011/06/12/why-is-kigali-so-clean-and-orderly/

https://openideo.com/challenge/vibrant-cities/inspiration/cleaning-day

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Well, I am with Omollo on this one. We can complain until we are blue in the face that Kenyans are not like bazungu, but at the end of the day, we have to find solutions that work for us, not be constantly whining that other people manage to do it one particular way without problems. Especially if you are the governor and have only a short term, you must get creative. Which means you must know your environment, what obstacles you face and how to get around them to get work done, in this case, a clean, functional city with efficient delivery of basic services.

I'm pretty sure there is going to be no international tender for garbage collection in Nairobi.   So sure, I am prepared to bet on it.   Any takers?  That means "solutions that work for us" will have to be something else.

Fortunately, there is a "creative" solution, and it happens to be exactly what people claimed I was suggesting to start with: the people---yes, the taxpayers who are owed services---can do it themselves.   Complain and demand services?   Absolutely.   But clean up.   To sit and say, "I've paid my taxes; so I will live in filth until Kidero does something" makes little sense.

Also it must not be assumed that any talk of people keeping their city clean necessarily means a reference to wazungu.   We need to move beyond that type of mentality.

In Africa, folks in Rwanda manage to keep their city clean, and amazingly enough, the "taxpayers who are owned services" do a large part of the work:

"In Kigali City, Rwanda, the last Saturday of each month, is a compulsory day of cleaning, when all business comes to a stop in Kigali City, Rwanda. Everyone including the President partakes in cleaning the city ..."

"Keeping our streets clean, keeping our homesteads clean, ourselves clean, is not something we need to go out looking for resources. It is something we have within ourselves, why not start from that? It becomes a culture, it becomes a way of life."
- Paul Kagame, Rwandan President

"We cannot talk about the development of this country when we don't take care of the cleanliness."
- Rose Mukankomeje, Director, Rwanda Environmental Management Agency

http://www.sunwords.com/2011/06/12/why-is-kigali-so-clean-and-orderly/

https://openideo.com/challenge/vibrant-cities/inspiration/cleaning-day

I can see where Omollo is coming from.  A holistic solution with the honest recognition that the organizational capacity, inclination, discipline, integrity...what have you is not present in that local environment.

I also think it is a fantastic idea in the given circumstances.  As fantastic as the notion, which I previously had, that Kenyans will not install an indicted suspect into the highest office.

[Omollo]

I think we have a fundamental conceptual problem here.

People can be conscious of killing and even undertake communal cleaning on national scale. Does this any way contradict what I outlined? The answer is no. The level of cleansing that I have in mind and which has been effectuated in several countries and which two or three counties have in the works (one blocked by legal challenges) also relies on sensitizing people to participate in keeping their environment clean.

How?

They are sensitized to dump their garbage sensibly. Garbage bins and collecting paper usually plastic is given out so that the people place in the bins and remove and place aside if full before collection.

As they advance in knowledge their participation extends to source sorting where instead of one bin for all garbage, the users can sort their garbage before dumping it. They separate glass, metal, household waste from more "special waste" that may require specialized handling.

This is a much more useful than the mass picnics held in Kigali. It is more for publicity than of real value. For example they may still be collecting the garbage and then dumping it on the usual garbage mountains called dump sites one finds in African cities.

Simply put, that is the transfer of garbage from many places to one. It contributes zero to environmental renewal. It is the most dangerous thing one can do and over the years, the dumpsite may poison the underground water and return to each and every home that thought they had gotten rid of with devastating outcomes.

So while Moon Ki thinks he is doing a wonderful job "cleaning" his estate, he is in fact feeding the beast that would eventually return to his house through the pipes with a fury and take his kids, wife and himself. That is just how silly the failure to invest in modern garbage handling systems can be!

You may not know but Nairobians are paying triple for the collection of their garbage. From time immemorial, charges for garbage collection were tied to water supply. Every month, Nairobians pay for water and garbage. In addition, the Nairobi County instituted direct garbage collection levies. Kidero recently upped it to 500 per month per when launching another mafia garbage collector.

Now Moon Ki has made a bet that no international tender will ever be floated over garbage collection in Nairobi. I can't argue with that. I never said it would ever be. Mine is a proposal of ideas that work. It is upto Kidero and his government to pursue ideas that work. They cannot be forced. After all we live in a country where the government routinely awards tenders floated to get the best deal to the HIGHEST bidder and like Kimunya once said, the government insists "it is a good deal".

We have seen Kidero flagging off a new garbage collection company. Nothing is changing. These trucks will collect garbage in the usual places and dump in Dandora. The streets will remain dirty and Nairobians will continue to pay private collectors to relieve them of garbage.

Tax Payers?
Are you familiar with KARENGATA Association? They complained and got fed up. So they went to court and stopped Nairobi city Council from collecting any taxes from them until it could offer services. They undertook to collect the cash from members (lest NCC claim they are dodging taxes) and pay for the services and keep receipts and balance for an eventual settlement. I advice you to delve in to that case especially if you are going to insist taxpayers take action. You may want to know the mafia tactics employed by successive mayors to derail Karengata.

Reference to wazungu: I am more irked by MoonKi's knee jerk reaction to "international". There is no basis for sneering at it other than some form of xenophobia. I have explained that advertising internationally has no other purpose than to secure the best service and most benefits for Nairobians. After all most of the road tenders involving international donors are advertised "Internationally" even if local corruption ensures that "offshore" registered companies take over.

[MOON Ki]

Omollo:

I will now raise the white flag on this one and give the folks of Nairobi my best wishes for a garbage-free future.   How that will be achieved is far from clear, but perhaps your suggested solutions will end up being adopted.     In the meantime the garbage is still piling up ... but people must not feed the beast.

[Omollo]

Moon KI

Like I said, you have simply not understood anything of the idea I am floating. I was looking through your post to respond then I found at the end it is really not worth it, since you missed the initial point. I will respond selectively to some of the things you raise.

Do you know how companies operate across the borders? I believe Samsung and Google are operating in Kenya. I doubt that they came with bus loads of Koreans and Americans. I believe most of the employees are Kenyan. So if you expect an international company to bring in foreigners to collect garbage, then I really can't help you there.

What one hires is the expertise which can be transferred to locals over time. That is why any such contracts contain clear provisions for capacity building and a profit sharing ratio that that starts with the company getting most of the profits and ends years later with the city getting most.

So I have no idea what your objections are. Are you defending local jobs from foreigners? What jobs?

I think you are being naive to imagine that better training and equipment would change the way garbage is collected. It has been tried and has failed. Nairobi city council bought cleaning equipment that could replace 200 sweepers in CBD. The machinery remained parking until it was vandalised. Even if you train them and equip them, those workers will still have to dump the garbage in Dandora. One needs a recycling plant. A recycling plant is expensive and one needs a company that has the capital to invest in its construction. Time has gone past the use of open trucks to ferry garbage. There is need for complex machinery to collect, transport and process in transit some of the garbage. Clearly the thinking is still old fashioned and traditionalist. There is no room given for scientific and technological advances made in the field.

Garbage is a complex issue. If Moonki thinks it is just about will power and training, then he has a lot to learn about it. He is not alone in trying to apply simplistic and out dated ideas to a complex problem. It is this pedestrian approach to garbage in Nairobi that is responsible for the failure to embrace modern methods of Garbage handling. Just because the Beberu employed mamas with brooms to sweep the streets of nairobi when it had a population of 20 000 people, is no reason to continue doing it when it has a population of 5 milion.

[MOON Ki]

[Omollo]

I think you should have defended your corner so we fully exhaust the issue. White flags these days lead to massacres. Nobody takes prisoners these days. Just as Iraqi Soldiers fighting the ISIS - They would rather exchange their American supplied weapons for their lives and only take a few pickups to run away. Those left behind are immediately killed "humanely" with a bullet to the back of the head.

-----deleted----