Whats the Rivarly btwn Kjpsigis and Nandi ? same as Kikuyu Meru ?

[Nowayhaha]

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Caleb Kositany a Nandi, can't hide his hate for Kipsigis, the LARGEST block of the KALENJIN nation. Make no Mistakes, we have been singing this for years. And now you need no more proof than what Kositany is saying below. He thinks Kipsigis don't deserve to lead. Hii ni MADHARAU pic.twitter.com/MSfFQIxAAy

— Lord Abraham Mutai (@ItsMutai) April 25, 2022

[RV Pundit]

There is absolutely no Nandi-Kispigis rivarly.
Some Nandis just feel the heat because many Kipsigis moved to Nandi - generally did well - some of have gone for leadership.
The same way Maasai feel the heat in Narok.
But trying to divide Nandi-Kispigis is futile exercises.
Nandi and Kipsigis are very very close.
They were on tribe until 17-18th century. The language is 99.8 percent similar. There are maybe 2 words difference.
Nandi can move to Kispigis and Kipsigis to Nandi without any problem as far as anybody can remember.

It easier to divide Kipsigis with other kalenjin subtribe - but not Nandis.
Other Kalenjin sub-tribe can raid each other - like Tugen versus Pokot - or Pokot versus Marakwet.
But never in history has kipsigis and Nandis raided each other.
Because they cousins.

Kones tried with Moi tugen - with little success.
So it generally hard to seperate Kalenjin.

As for doomed Kipsigis bla de bla  by Isaac Ruto and his surrogates - coz of William Ruto.
It fails immediately because William Ruto is a Kispigis.

There is no difference btw William Ruto and Alfred Keter.
Both are Kipsigis who are 5kms apart from their historical grounds in kericho.
One from Kapsoit. One from Kipchimchim.
Ruto father emigrated in 1960s.
Keter father maybe in 1980s.
Both speak Nandi and were born in Nandi.

Someone like billionaire David Langat struggled because he is born in Kipsigis, speak kipsigis and wanted to vie in Nandi.

Caleb Kositany a Nandi, can't hide his hate for Kipsigis, the LARGEST block of the KALENJIN nation. Make no Mistakes, we have been singing this for years. And now you need no more proof than what Kositany is saying below. He thinks Kipsigis don't deserve to lead. Hii ni MADHARAU pic.twitter.com/MSfFQIxAAy

— Lord Abraham Mutai (@ItsMutai) April 25, 2022

[RV Heavy Hitter!]

That looks 2018 clip when Keter was attacking Ruto relentlessly. It was alright then because both kipsigis and Nandi were against Keter. Keter and Ruto are the same because they have kipsigis fathers that moved to Nandi. Technically, they are both Kipsigis but speak the Nandi dialect because of their mothers. Anyone that plays kipsigis vs Nandi politics will slowly wither the same way Isaac Ruto did because the union between the two is unbreakable. Keter looks like he is going down slowly! You cannot attack the Kingpin of Kalenjins and expect to survive politically for long!

[RV Heavy Hitter!]

Kipsigis and Nandi can be compared to Kiambu Kikuyus and Nyeri Kikuyus, not Kikuyus and Meru!

[RV Pundit]

Yes. It way too close. I checked the difference in words. It only two word. Iro (for see in Nandi) and I think seset (dog). It's really an accent thing - American versus British English.

Kipsigis and Nandi can be compared to Kiambu Kikuyus and Nyeri Kikuyus, not Kikuyus and Meru!

[RV Pundit]

Yes he has to be a fool to think he can attack WSR or UDA and survive. He should keep it Sudi and the likes. I see he said he will campaign vigorously for Ruto. He needs to stop attacking UDA=Ruto. He can only attack Sudi/Kositany...guys who are equal to him. Attacking Ruto or UDA is attacking Kalenjin nation...at the wrong time.

That looks 2018 clip when Keter was attacking Ruto relentlessly. It was alright then because both kipsigis and Nandi were against Keter. Keter and Ruto are the same because they have kipsigis fathers that moved to Nandi. Technically, they are both Kipsigis but speak the Nandi dialect because of their mothers. Anyone that plays kipsigis vs Nandi politics will slowly wither the same way Isaac Ruto did because the union between the two is unbreakable. Keter looks like he is going down slowly! You cannot attack the Kingpin of Kalenjins and expect to survive politically for long!

[RV Heavy Hitter!]

Yes he has to be a fool to think he can attack WSR or UDA and survive. He should keep it Sudi and the likes. I see he said he will campaign vigorously for Ruto. He needs to stop attacking UDA=Ruto. He can only attack Sudi/Kositany...guys who are equal to him. Attacking Ruto or UDA is attacking Kalenjin nation...at the wrong time.

That looks 2018 clip when Keter was attacking Ruto relentlessly. It was alright then because both kipsigis and Nandi were against Keter. Keter and Ruto are the same because they have kipsigis fathers that moved to Nandi. Technically, they are both Kipsigis but speak the Nandi dialect because of their mothers. Anyone that plays kipsigis vs Nandi politics will slowly wither the same way Isaac Ruto did because the union between the two is unbreakable. Keter looks like he is going down slowly! You cannot attack the Kingpin of Kalenjins and expect to survive politically for long!

Caleb and Sudi are from marakwet and Tugen/Keiyo backgrounds and I don't think they can win in the long run attacking Keter. Keter's oratorical skills and Nandi culture customs is just out of this world. As long as Keter stops attacking DP and UDA he will floor any Kalenjin hands down! 

[RV Pundit]

Kiburi inaisha. Isaac Ruto is now very humble. Nowadays before he ask for his votes - he first say ya Juuu ni william. Na bado kichapo atapata in august. I dont think Kipsigis will forgive him soon for wasting their money to fight Ruto in nonsensical kipisgis versus nandi.

Caleb and Sudi are from marakwet and Tugen/Keiyo backgrounds and I don't think they can win in the long run attacking Keter. Keter's oratorical skills and Nandi culture customs is just out of this world. As long as Keter stops attacking DP and UDA he will floor any Kalenjin hands down! 

[RV Heavy Hitter!]

Kiburi inaisha. Isaac Ruto is now very humble. Nowadays before he ask for his votes - he first say ya Juuu ni william. Na bado kichapo atapata in august. I dont think Kipsigis will forgive him soon for wasting their money to fight Ruto in nonsensical kipisgis versus nandi.

Caleb and Sudi are from marakwet and Tugen/Keiyo backgrounds and I don't think they can win in the long run attacking Keter. Keter's oratorical skills and Nandi culture customs is just out of this world. As long as Keter stops attacking DP and UDA he will floor any Kalenjin hands down! 

You think Barchok will win? I think Isaac has paid his dues. I just think six-piece voting is tough for him to overcome. He has sizeable support but I think him parading Raila messed him up for good!

[RV Pundit]

He has support of new voters - vijana - and his usual diehards. He will get beaten 10-nil. He has no development record. It wasnt just Raila that was the problem..he is deeply flawed character.

Alfred Keter - or Ngong - you can fix their issues - because development wako sawa -  shida tu ni politics - that people can forgive - but zero development - even if you sing Ruto daily - you're out - you oppose RUto - you're out.

So Plogom shida kubwa he has no development record - people saw development with Joyce - Barchok is useless but better than Plogom

You think Barchok will win? I think Isaac has paid his dues. I just think six-piece voting is tough for him to overcome. He has sizeable support but I think him parading Raila messed him up for good!

[Njuri Ncheke]

All what I can say is Kipsigis ladies are yummy and super delicious. Lil bro Noway have you ever tasted a Nandi you tell us?
But basically heard Kalenjin with a Mukabila boyfriend also keep a Kiptoiyot on the side.

[gout]

You can't take a biased tweet and conclude there is hate between tribes or sub tribes.

Most are just petty stereotypes overblown over time. Where do Kikuyus hate Meru? Why?

I would say Kikuyus hate Luos and now wariah. Hii ingine ni madharau ndogo ndogo na wivu.

[RV Heavy Hitter!]

Maa clans have beef than Kips and Nandi. Actually, there is no beef between Nandi and Kipsigis ever recorded. I would say there might be a beef between Nandi county Nandis and UG Nandis.

[Nowayhaha]

Didnt live in Kenya enough to sample All 47 tribes.The way you are talking its as if its an accomplishment.

And why do you think Im your Lil Bro ?

All what I can say is Kipsigis ladies are yummy and super delicious. Lil bro Noway have you ever tasted a Nandi you tell us?
But basically heard Kalenjin with a Mukabila boyfriend also keep a Kiptoiyot on the side.

[RV Pundit]

The only beef btw Kispigis and Nandi relate to Nandi resistance of 19th century. Nandis felt kipsigis did not come to their rescue or join up to fight the Brits.  The nandi suffered greatly - in loss of men/cattle - and their women or girls now destitute were snapped almost for free by kipsigis men. That generation of kogos (Old women) - there are at least one or two nandi woman in every kipsigis village. Most of them were being married as second wife - as men found many destitute nandi women - who nobody bothered to come for the cows.

The genesis of the difference can be traced back in Nandi when two or three sons of Kimnyole had disagreed and even fought a civil war.

Koitalel won the war and the throne in Nandi. His defeated brother Kipchumber arap Koilegen went and establish his chieftanship amongst kipsigis and lived in present day Kericho town...and rivarly continued.

When koitalel decided to fight Brits - Koilegen became collaborator and was appointed kipsigis 1st paramount chief. That was genesis of kipsigis-nandi difference. Whatever Koitalel did..Koilegen would oppose.

But few years later when Brits Killed Koitalel and wiped almost their entire family - Koilegen became bitter -and started fighting the Brits - hoping to avenge the massacre of his family back in Nandi.

He was kicked out of paramount chief - and then he planned to killed settled europeans as revenge against the killing of his family in Nandi...but was found out...and jailed for 27yrs...become Kenyans longest prisoned NOBODY talks about it..taken to Lamu, Muranga, Meru and name all remote prisons the Brits had. He was released in 1930s - and was still very bitter - organized raids against white - when his raiders killed and raped a mzungu in Naivasha - their entire Talai clan were kicked out to Gwassi island and essentially jailed in tse tse fly in lake victoria.

Another thing that seperated Nandi and Kipsigis was the land grab by Indians and Luos of Nyando valley -  initially the British seperated kipsigis from Nandis in the war - so Kipsigis could not come in aid of Nandis.....now that area is occupied by Luos.

Before the British arrival - Kispsigis and Nandis were essentially one tribe - possibly also the Eldama ravine Tugens. The Keiyos, Marakwet, pokots and others were seperated from other kalenjin by Maasai of uasin gishu.....Maasai lived in present day eldoret, transzoia and nakuru.

Maa clans have beef than Kips and Nandi. Actually, there is no beef between Nandi and Kipsigis ever recorded. I would say there might be a beef between Nandi county Nandis and UG Nandis.

[Njuri Ncheke]

Didnt live in Kenya enough to sample All 47 tribes.The way you are talking its as if its an accomplishment.

And why do you think Im your Lil Bro ?

All what I can say is Kipsigis ladies are yummy and super delicious. Lil bro Noway have you ever tasted a Nandi you tell us?
But basically heard Kalenjin with a Mukabila boyfriend also keep a Kiptoiyot on the side.

Take it with a light touch Mzito  , don't be rigid...I was also out of Kenya for many years but boy when I landed first thing was catch up where had lost out but now have retired,but they say even an old cat loves milk.
In Njuri Ncheke constitution being an elder is not necessary a sign of age,for example as a member in the organization am automatically rated equivalent to wazee older than me,I have same authority when I wield the stick and sit. And when we say a seated elder can see further than dozens of youths/boys who are on top of trees it has all to do with wisdom and foresight.

[RV Heavy Hitter!]

The only beef btw Kispigis and Nandi relate to Nandi resistance of 19th century. Nandis felt kipsigis did not come to their rescue or join up to fight the Brits.  The nandi suffered greatly - in loss of men/cattle - and their women or girls now destitute were snapped almost for free by kipsigis men. That generation of kogos (Old women) - there are at least one or two nandi woman in every kipsigis village. Most of them were being married as second wife - as men found many destitute nandi women - who nobody bothered to come for the cows.

The genesis of the difference can be traced back in Nandi when two or three sons of Kimnyole had disagreed and even fought a civil war.

Koitalel won the war and the throne in Nandi. His defeated brother Kipchumber arap Koilegen went and establish his chieftanship amongst kipsigis and lived in present day Kericho town...and rivarly continued.

When koitalel decided to fight Brits - Koilegen became collaborator and was appointed kipsigis 1st paramount chief. That was genesis of kipsigis-nandi difference. Whatever Koitalel did..Koilegen would oppose.

But few years later when Brits Killed Koitalel and wiped almost their entire family - Koilegen became bitter -and started fighting the Brits - hoping to avenge the massacre of his family back in Nandi.

He was kicked out of paramount chief - and then he planned to killed settled europeans as revenge against the killing of his family in Nandi...but was found out...and jailed for 27yrs...become Kenyans longest prisoned NOBODY talks about it..taken to Lamu, Muranga, Meru and name all remote prisons the Brits had. He was released in 1930s - and was still very bitter - organized raids against white - when his raiders killed and raped a mzungu in Naivasha - their entire Talai clan were kicked out to Gwassi island and essentially jailed in tse tse fly in lake victoria.

Another thing that seperated Nandi and Kipsigis was the land grab by Indians and Luos of Nyando valley -  initially the British seperated kipsigis from Nandis in the war - so Kipsigis could not come in aid of Nandis.....now that area is occupied by Luos.

Before the British arrival - Kispsigis and Nandis were essentially one tribe - possibly also the Eldama ravine Tugens. The Keiyos, Marakwet, pokots and others were seperated from other kalenjin by Maasai of uasin gishu.....Maasai lived in present day eldoret, transzoia and nakuru.

Maa clans have beef than Kips and Nandi. Actually, there is no beef between Nandi and Kipsigis ever recorded. I would say there might be a beef between Nandi county Nandis and UG Nandis.

Thanks for the rare-to-find history of the two subtribes. How did Koilegen,  a Nandi established himself among the Kipsigis? And where are Koitalels of the Kipsigis?

[Nowayhaha]

Lost out ? So in Germany you were harbouring a dry spell. Been there and its one of the best places during summer. Really like the summer jams. The people are very friendly too.
Another thing that impressed me is that you have people employed ro look for jobless people and get them placements.

Didnt live in Kenya enough to sample All 47 tribes.The way you are talking its as if its an accomplishment.

And why do you think Im your Lil Bro ?

All what I can say is Kipsigis ladies are yummy and super delicious. Lil bro Noway have you ever tasted a Nandi you tell us?
But basically heard Kalenjin with a Mukabila boyfriend also keep a Kiptoiyot on the side.

Take it with a light touch Mzito  , don't be rigid...I was also out of Kenya for many years but boy when I landed first thing was catch up where had lost out but now have retired,but they say even an old cat loves milk.
In Njuri Ncheke constitution being an elder is not necessary a sign of age,for example as a member in the organization am automatically rated equivalent to wazee older than me,I have same authority when I wield the stick and sit. And when we say a seated elder can see further than dozens of youths/boys who are on top of trees it has all to do with wisdom and foresight.

[RV Pundit]

Pre-colonial period...Nandi and Kipsigis were one tribe --almost - one could move to either direction any day. There was no border -- but when British were fighting Nandis - they seperated kipsigis and Nandi - by creating a large border - for kipsigis and nandi had allied - British would have taken 20yrs to defeat them -

The kipsigis-Nandi buffer land remain fallow - and indians requested British to give them to plant sugar-cane....this muhoroni-chemelil-kipkelion-goru - which after independence Luos led by Jaramogi grabbed. Kericho and Nandi were contiguous - now small trip of Kisumu all the way to Kipkelion.

Now Koilegen and his defeated crew (large families of talai) moved to Kericho and established his talai leadership - his younger brother moved to Londian and established his own.

They of course became very rich from ordering cattle raids - and sharing the spoils - without ever going to war - and they attracted a lot of resentment.

They were eventually all kicked out by Laibon Removal Ordinace of 1934. You can read the actual law here
https://gazettes.africa/archive/ke/1934/ke-government-gazette-dated-1934-07-03-no-32.pdf

Thanks for the rare-to-find history of the two subtribes. How did Koilegen,  a Nandi established himself among the Kipsigis? And where are Koitalels of the Kipsigis?

[RV Pundit]

You can read how the Talai dynasty was ended in Kipsigis. I think same was done in Nandi although Talai were just confined to an area - not deported.

https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/kenyas-talai-end-dynasty