Author Topic: Putin declares war on Ukraine - ask the Ukraine soldiers to lay down arms  (Read 12916 times)

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Ukraine will not dare defend itself; they are going to lay down arms; the current president will end up in exile. Eastern Ukraine will go Russia way - and the new president of Ukraine will be pro-Russia.

The western allies have no stomach for war.
:D :D :D didn't know will be laughing this soon.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Dear Mami

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When the Baltic states joined NATO in 2004 putin was on his 4 th year as president and his focus was on the economy. He was reviving Russian economy and was the darling of the west. He was too much in bed until Russians  started questioning why he would let Baltic states enter NATO with a sizeable ethnic  Russian living there. Russian fears were confirmed when laws were enacted striping ethnic Russians of Citizenship and baring the use of Russian language in schools and public offices. They even introduced language police who would eaves drop and arrest people speaking in Russian . The effect was mass exodus(expulsion) of ethnic Russians to the Russian Federation.
By 2008 it had become a political question which Putin had to answer . Thats when he said enough is enough. Western Nations thought he was joking the consequences are what we see.

The border the Russians share with the Baltics is easily defended. It is impossible to defend the Ukrainian border in case of an attack by a superior force that controls it. The only thing they could do in that case is threaten nuclear warfare. Conventional warfare would be out. That's why Ukraine and Georgia have always been considered the red line by those studying/discussing this till the West decided they don't care.

I may be wrong there but I got the idea from listening to Scott Ritter's analysis of the war and how he thinks it's going, what he thinks the strategy is, given Russians aren't sharing. I think he said from a military perspective that the border with the Baltics was a very different kettle of fish compared to the border in Ukraine and Georgia.

Let me find that discussion. It's very long but very interesting, I think you'll enjoy it if you have time to listen. I think he must be mostly right at least about the war in Ukraine.

Here is is:

Offline Dear Mami

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So, Noway, what he said that I didn't know yet was that initially, Russia indeed had relied on the intelligence (forget what he called it) of those commanders who were to go into Ukraine and secure a kind of pre-surrender from the mayors, different units etc. These were those commanders Putin was reportedly mad at for providing bad intelligence.  Their orders were to go in soft, they were not expecting the Ukrainians to fight. So they went in and found a full-fledged war. Only then did they decide to fight a conventional war.

Even then, they did not follow their traditional doctrine of shock and awe but what they're calling 'the Syrian' strategy or something: basically, how they fought in Syria. It appears from the low number of civilian casualties-to-Soldiers that the main aim was to avoid wrecking civilian people or civilian infrastructure. Like 3/4 casualties are military, which he says is highly uncommon in war.

I didn't know this. That indeed the Russians went in soft not expecting a real war.

But he rubbishes the Ukrainian figures too. If it was true 15-20,000 Russians had been killed, it'd mean like 60-80,000 are wounded, per normal combat patterns, which would take out like 50% of the Russian forces. This would have destroyed any cohesive/functional operation of the army, he says, and yet we are seeing the exact opposite. He says Russians are reporting and transferring dead soldiers to their families and their operations and these reports back home match their own claims to have lost around 1,500 soldiers so far (after Maripol). Believe Ukrainian numbers at your own risk. 

Ukrainian soldiers dead are at least 30,000 after Maripol, says Ritter. There were about 14/15,000 in that city before the battle and that fight was intense, the most committed Russian battle so far, and the city has been completely taken. These guys were not conventional Ukrainian soldiers/marines but Azov (Nazi) forces/units, so it's a good bet they were killed rather than taken prisoner. Russians are killing them straight up without mercy. If you add to the numbers before Maripol, that's like 30,000 at least. He says the number is more like btw 2,000-3,000 Russians to 30,000 Ukrainians, given what we're seeing.

Now that the Russians have created their land bridge and cut off Kyiv from the East, they are taking their best soldiers to the East to destroy another 60,000 or so. Like the other Colonel, he thinks this war is over. It's more important to destroy the military than to take territory because without the military, the territory is all yours for the taking.

What do you think? Are Russian sources saying the same thing? His analysis is based on his military know-how and speculation as nobody has access to Russian plans. The Western media are simply reporting ANYTHING the Ukrainians claim as fact, but they don't know either.

Offline Nowayhaha

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From my perspective Putins mistake was participating in the Minsk agreement at a time the whole east from Kharkov , Donbass to Odessa was politically pro Russia and specifically when they had encircled the Ukranian army in Donbass and defeated them. The request to let them free and accept a ceasefire was the beginning of the end of Russian influence in Ukraine.
Because what followed next was all pro Russian  media was banned and the media owners lefr to operate brainwashed Ukrainians one of the reason you have Zelenski a comedian becoming a President as he was sponsored by a Media Oligarch.
So to expect little or no resistance feom Ukraine is complete Hogwash taking in consideration NATO had been training and giving weapons to Ukraine since 2014 in addition majority of Ukrainian army had real battle experience from the Donbass war.  So the anology of Mayors surrendering is just an opinion. Putin knew what was happening in Ukraine and he knew Ukraine was going to start a fully fledged war in Donbass by March followed by Crimea  so he had to either stop one way or the other . He tried to negotiate with U.S. and NATO they shwoed him the middle finger so he decided to use War to make them listen.Only a day to the war did Bidden accept to concede to Russian propasal but on "principle"

Russian Military has avoided Civilian areas as much as possible, its the Azov Militia who have been using Hospitals , Kindergattens and Apartments to launch their attacks with counterattacks leading to causalties.
If They were targetting Civilians like that they would have rargeted Verkhnova Rada(Ukraine Parliament)  with cruse missiles as they are capable of launching from their territory and ships in White/Baltic and Black sea.

In regards to casualties you are spot on.
Finally I think Putin has eventually concluded this thing is for rhe long haul , so he is recruting more soldiers who now will be rotating and has decided to put all efforts in the East and South , with Lugansk ane Donestsk already liberated focus now will be on the other regions like Kherson, Odessa, Summy ,Kharkiv, Mykolaiv, Zaporizhzhia and Dnipropetrovsk.

Offline Njuri Ncheke

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The naivety exbhited in this forum by a few members is shocking,when the war started immediately I said Russia is defeated,Have tried to hint on why i said this but nikama kupigia mbuzi guitar, anyways I will start a thread on "Educating Nipate's slowpokes on basic war analysis"

Offline Nowayhaha

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Sorry to say this but you are very poor matters Europe Geopolitics.

The naivety exbhited in this forum by a few members is shocking,when the war started immediately I said Russia is defeated,Have tried to hint on why i said this but nikama kupigia mbuzi guitar, anyways I will start a thread on "Educating Nipate's slowpokes on basic war analysis"

Offline audacityofhope

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Ukraine will not dare defend itself; they are going to lay down arms; the current president will end up in exile. Eastern Ukraine will go Russia way - and the new president of Ukraine will be pro-Russia.

The western allies have no stomach for war.

Except from buffoon Mr.-I-have been-blogging-since-my-teens aka Mr-Putin-will-have-lunch-in-Kyiv.  :s_laugh: :85: :85:
Nod to @Njuri Ncheke for revisiting this post!

Offline Arcadian_Dreamer

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Win or lose, Ukraine has exposed Putin's Russia as a potemkin power.
Sleep is good, death is better; but of course, The best would be never to have been born at all.

Offline Georgesoros

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Ukraine gave up nuclear arms as west guaranteed support, but Russia instead of honoring the agreement has went on to attack Ukraine. Guarantee was worthless. Now the moron is moving missiles to Finland.

Offline Kadudu

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Most people thought after the Ukraine invasion, the Baltic states would be next on Putin's menu. After the debacle, nobody fears Russia anymore. Russia's only advantage are the nuclear weapons it can threaten to use against other countries.
Now Putin is only talking of the Donbas region. He has swallowed his own words of toppling the "Nazi" led regime in Kyiv.
 
Win or lose, Ukraine has exposed Putin's Russia as a potemkin power.

Offline Georgesoros

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Most people thought after the Ukraine invasion, the Baltic states would be next on Putin's menu. After the debacle, nobody fears Russia anymore. Russia's only advantage are the nuclear weapons it can threaten to use against other countries.
Now Putin is only talking of the Donbas region. He has swallowed his own words of toppling the "Nazi" led regime in Kyiv.
 
Win or lose, Ukraine has exposed Putin's Russia as a potemkin power.

He has managed to bring unity to the Europe and the Baltics. In my opinion European companies will shift economic activities from China to the Baltics.
He has also managed to revive EVs.


Offline Nowayhaha

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You need to pick which motion you are for. Either Europe is so afraid rhat they have decided to up their defence , Finaland Sweden are so afraid they have decided to join NATO because of Russias operation in Ukraine or No one nolonger fears Russia.
Truth be told Russia has made everyone butt scared . Western Nations never thought Putin Could ever use Nuclear Weapons now they know better. Secondly Ukraine is already a land locked country if this is a major achievement for NATO and Ukraine you need to have your mind checked.
Apart from that one of Russias objective was to stop Unilaterism , Countries now have started using their own currencies to do business . Countiries like China , India , Saudia nolonger take instructions from Washington . Second objective they have managed to shake up the worlds political scene. Most of the current leaders will lose elections bringing in a new crop of leaders which essentially will have different ideas.
As for Baltic countries, reread your history after a few years they will be back where they are supposed to.
Problem of you guys dont know history. There is a reason they say history keepa repeating itself.

Most people thought after the Ukraine invasion, the Baltic states would be next on Putin's menu. After the debacle, nobody fears Russia anymore. Russia's only advantage are the nuclear weapons it can threaten to use against other countries.
Now Putin is only talking of the Donbas region. He has swallowed his own words of toppling the "Nazi" led regime in Kyiv.
 
Win or lose, Ukraine has exposed Putin's Russia as a potemkin power.

Offline Nowayhaha

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Yes shortterm unity. We can see how united Europe is on sanctioning Oil and Gas.
How united Europe is on paying Gas using Euros instead of Rubles.
What perhaps you dont see and we see is that there is a divide between NATO and Former Warsaw countries in a lot of policies.
And with Inflation going upwards expect major political divisions.
In the next 2 years EU will be in disray.

Most people thought after the Ukraine invasion, the Baltic states would be next on Putin's menu. After the debacle, nobody fears Russia anymore. Russia's only advantage are the nuclear weapons it can threaten to use against other countries.
Now Putin is only talking of the Donbas region. He has swallowed his own words of toppling the "Nazi" led regime in Kyiv.
 
Win or lose, Ukraine has exposed Putin's Russia as a potemkin power.

He has managed to bring unity to the Europe and the Baltics. In my opinion European companies will shift economic activities from China to the Baltics.
He has also managed to revive EVs.

Offline Kadudu

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Keep on having your wet dreams.
You told us Putin will be having lunch in Kyiv two days after he invaded Ukraine. Now weeks down the line it seems even Putin himself has given up in capturing Kyiv. So your wishes and reality are two different issues. EU has its problems, but it is here to stay. After Brexit, no other member has dared mention leaving the EU. Even Marine Le Pen cannot dare mention such a scenerio for France if she wins the presidency. That tells it all about the EU.
Btw, Britain is not in the EU. Is there high inflation there or not? Even let us not mention countries like Turkey or Kenya. If lation is all over the world.

Yes shortterm unity. We can see how united Europe is on sanctioning Oil and Gas.
How united Europe is on paying Gas using Euros instead of Rubles.
What perhaps you dont see and we see is that there is a divide between NATO and Former Warsaw countries in a lot of policies.
And with Inflation going upwards expect major political divisions.
In the next 2 years EU will be in disray.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Win or lose, Ukraine has exposed Putin's Russia as a potemkin power.

Yep.  In an ironic twist, this in itself brings into question the need for NATO.  Article 5 specifically should probably be on a case by case basis rather than automatic.

A defining trait of a Potemkin power is fixation with saber-rattling.  Massive military parades with huge missiles, hundreds of tanks, aircraft, everything in their inventory and some...a sight to behold.  There is a psychological element to that.  When you are weak you thump your chest, cause commotion to cover it up.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Nowayhaha

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Kadudu you are naive, Unlike you I very well know whats happening. Its my sphere. Do you live in Europe ?

Keep on having your wet dreams.
You told us Putin will be having lunch in Kyiv two days after he invaded Ukraine. Now weeks down the line it seems even Putin himself has given up in capturing Kyiv. So your wishes and reality are two different issues. EU has its problems, but it is here to stay. After Brexit, no other member has dared mention leaving the EU. Even Marine Le Pen cannot dare mention such a scenerio for France if she wins the presidency. That tells it all about the EU.
Btw, Britain is not in the EU. Is there high inflation there or not? Even let us not mention countries like Turkey or Kenya. If lation is all over the world.

Yes shortterm unity. We can see how united Europe is on sanctioning Oil and Gas.
How united Europe is on paying Gas using Euros instead of Rubles.
What perhaps you dont see and we see is that there is a divide between NATO and Former Warsaw countries in a lot of policies.
And with Inflation going upwards expect major political divisions.
In the next 2 years EU will be in disray.

Offline Kadudu

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Do you include Putin and Xi Jinping on this list? :D :D :D

You need to pick which motion you are for. Either Europe is so afraid rhat they have decided to up their defence , Finaland Sweden are so afraid they have decided to join NATO because of Russias operation in Ukraine or No one nolonger fears Russia.
Truth be told Russia has made everyone butt scared . Western Nations never thought Putin Could ever use Nuclear Weapons now they know better. Secondly Ukraine is already a land locked country if this is a major achievement for NATO and Ukraine you need to have your mind checked.
Apart from that one of Russias objective was to stop Unilaterism , Countries now have started using their own currencies to do business . Countiries like China , India , Saudia nolonger take instructions from Washington . Second objective they have managed to shake up the worlds political scene. Most of the current leaders will lose elections bringing in a new crop of leaders which essentially will have different ideas.
As for Baltic countries, reread your history after a few years they will be back where they are supposed to.
Problem of you guys dont know history. There is a reason they say history keepa repeating itself.

Offline Kadudu

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No. I live in North Mugirango. That is you know where that is. We have the best weed in town. Ask Pundit and he will confirm. :D


Kadudu you are naive, Unlike you I very well know whats happening. Its my sphere. Do you live in Europe ?

Offline Nowayhaha

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How was Bahati School performing in National exams ? Seems your history teachers were drinking instead of teaching history hence your shallowness in history and critical thinking. So sad indeed.

Do you include Putin and Xi Jinping on this list? :D :D :D

You need to pick which motion you are for. Either Europe is so afraid rhat they have decided to up their defence , Finaland Sweden are so afraid they have decided to join NATO because of Russias operation in Ukraine or No one nolonger fears Russia.
Truth be told Russia has made everyone butt scared . Western Nations never thought Putin Could ever use Nuclear Weapons now they know better. Secondly Ukraine is already a land locked country if this is a major achievement for NATO and Ukraine you need to have your mind checked.
Apart from that one of Russias objective was to stop Unilaterism , Countries now have started using their own currencies to do business . Countiries like China , India , Saudia nolonger take instructions from Washington . Second objective they have managed to shake up the worlds political scene. Most of the current leaders will lose elections bringing in a new crop of leaders which essentially will have different ideas.
As for Baltic countries, reread your history after a few years they will be back where they are supposed to.
Problem of you guys dont know history. There is a reason they say history keepa repeating itself.

Offline Kadudu

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You cannot even get the name of the school right. Bahati Uhuru Primary School!

We never bothered with those useless lists. All we know a few have made it in life.
Btw, I know even people who went to Alliance High School who come to me asking for bus fare. Going to those top schools means nothing in the end. What you make out of yourself is what matters.

How was Bahati School performing in National exams ? Seems your history teachers were drinking instead of teaching history hence your shallowness in history and critical thinking. So sad indeed.