Gok should buy into Mobibus by offering them National Machine plant and land

[RV Pundit]

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Gov should exit mature industries and support infact industries like this car manufacturing....there is a lot of idle capacity in NMC which was suppose to manufacture cars...and now that private investors are doing so...gov can easily buy huge part of the shareholding...and support this industry.

http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Kenya-made-car-goes-on-sale-at-Sh950-000/-/539550/2497400/-/glyasbz/-/index.html

[RV Pundit]

Michael Joseph joins it
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Michael-Joseph-joins-Kenya-made-low-cost-vehicle-firm/-/539550/2500306/-/9hpsd4z/-/index.html

[Mr Mansfield.]

gov should keep off just offer assistance where needed...we have capital markets (which you as an idiot has not understood) where mobius can list and attract growth capital to expand production,Mobius just needs to work on design and their model can quick sell which means,they need to mix equity and debt to invest in plant and repay in a 20year plan,

Without Prejudice.

[RV Pundit]

First grow up and go slow on abuses..i can assure you it will get your banned here eventually. You've got Nipate.com to muddle yourself in mud.

And yes which capital market will allow Mobius to enlist? Look like you are not even aware that CMA regulation would require a company to have been profitable for 5yrs plus so many other rules...at least in the main market.

Mobius now can only get money from venture capitalist like the American billionaire...it can also get a lot of support from gov ministry of industralisation and treasury through equity, tax incentives and other bla de bla.

gov should keep off just offer assistance where needed...we have capital markets (which you as an idiot has not understood) where mobius can list and attract growth capital to expand production,Mobius just needs to work on design and their model can quick sell which means,they need to mix equity and debt to invest in plant and repay in a 20year plan,

Without Prejudice.

[Mr Mansfield.]

Those mzungu billionaire are offering it equity (convertible debt) and roping in professionals because the moment its listed whether in NYSE or Nairobi it will generate wealth...gov needs to level playing field for all investors by streamlining the infrastructure for all....go ahead and ban me while you hunt for land in ukambani instead of doing sensible stuff,pepo punda wewe,

Without Prejudice.

[RV Pundit]

You're desperate for attention. I will punish you by ignoring your dimwitted posts.

Those mzungu billionaire are offering it equity (convertible debt) and roping in professionals because the moment its listed whether in NYSE or Nairobi it will generate wealth...gov needs to level playing field for all investors by streamlining the infrastructure for all....go ahead and ban me while you hunt for land in ukambani instead of doing sensible stuff,pepo punda wewe,

Without Prejudice.

[Mr Mansfield.]

Attention for what?Any place,Any time,I can't put up with nonsense,

Without Prejudice.

[Omollo]

I agree with Pundit on this. I am for very limited government. I think government is over-stretched. However in this case GoK holds the keys to the growth of the new car Kenyan made car. GOK can help a lot! Not just with taxes etc but marketing!

It is GoK that can buy most of those cars. It is GoK that can arm twist Sudan (North and South), Ethiopia, Somalia and so on to buy a few of these vehicles to support 'local made'. People like Museveni and Kagame would not need top be asked twice. This is how Spain got herself a car industry.

GoK is in Safaricom and has seen its investment pay off. GoK set up KenGen and got out in time as it did many others. In this case Pundit is suggesting they be offered a resource that is already there and which will help the company grow. It is a good proposal. Much better than throwing it to hyenas to fight over, like they are doing in Karen

[RV Pundit]

It is what every functioning gov has done. Nurture infant industries and exit when they are mature. This is what US did to spur their industrialization against developed Europe....and US started turning from farmland into industrial engine in late 19th century till 1920s..Japan did the same in 1950s all through 1970s...Korea did the same...China is doing that. That is genesis of state owned enterprises.

Once an industry has matured..the gov exist...at a profit. Safaricom is one example. New KCC and Uchumi, KWAL,Hilton, Intercon,Kengen,Mumias,KTDA, Mumias and several other formerly gov owned industries....were a result of such policies.

There are very people willing to risk money on a start up like Mobius...and yet we know the critical multiplier role a car manufacturing industry would create..which is why we had Nyayo car project in the first place..

The little kid suffers from little knowledge... What hell would gov be leveling the ground when there is zero car manufacturers in kenya?. Who is willing to take such a big risk to sink money into Mobius R&D that could take yrs?

The role of gov is to develop new industries...nurture them[using money,legislation,taxation,free land,sweetheart procurement etc]..and exit when they are mature....and leave private competition.

Gov should invest in Mobius..it also should say invest in cultivating Cocoa planting in kenya...once an industry is self-sustaining..gov exit and then private competition kicks in.

I agree with Pundit on this. I am for very limited government. I think government is over-stretched. However in this case GoK holds the keys to the growth of the new car Kenyan made car. GOK can help a lot! Not just with taxes etc but marketing!

It is GoK that can buy most of those cars. It is GoK that can arm twist Sudan (North and South), Ethiopia, Somalia and so on to buy a few of these vehicles to support 'local made'. People like Museveni and Kagame would not need top be asked twice. This is how Spain got herself a car industry.

GoK is in Safaricom and has seen its investment pay off. GoK set up KenGen and got out in time as it did many others. In this case Pundit is suggesting they be offered a resource that is already there and which will help the company grow. It is a good proposal. Much better than throwing it to hyenas to fight over, like they are doing in Karen

[Omollo]

I hope they are not wasting time trying to manufacture many of the parts locally. They can outsource many of the parts while they develop their own local capacity to manufacture them. Some of the counties could also benefit by partnering to have the company locate the manufacture of one or two parts in the county. It does not have to be something big to start with. Perhaps mud guard, or bumper. They can later expand to bigger and more complicated parts. That would also form the basis for the counties expanding in to car manufacturing. China started off making parts for Japanese car industry.

[Mr Mansfield.]

There are so many corporations not just in Kenya but the world that have taken off without government shareholding,stop diverting from your earlier position,what drives a corporation is DEMAND DEMAND DEMAND not gov shareholding,That's what has led to success of safaricom,KWL,Uchumi,Kengen,KPLC etc etc Mobius will not be the only car manufacturer in the Kenya,there will be so many others and the best the gov can do is to offer a level playing field,we have i think 60,000 cars or so being imported annually vs gov leasing just 1200,if Mobius designs a sexy middle class car,it will sell,government should NOT BE A SHAREHOLDER in this Mobius corp it should keep off,if its any assistance yes but bringing in ethnic idiots in a promising corp is a No,

Lastly,you cannot compare venture capital with the return on equity in the long term,what that American billionaire has invested in mobius is very little compare to what he will earn in equity over long term,

Without Prejudice.

[RV Pundit]

There is a lot of car "manufacturing" going on with car assemblers...those that assembler buses,matatus and the work...and that is what Mobius are trying to take advantage of. They are based in Thika assembler..that basically take the chasis of the car..and convert them into lorries and buses...so already there is capacity for welding, fittings,upholstery, basic wiring,windows. They are folks who produce shocks for kenya road..like Robs etc.All Mobius need is an engine and transmission.....

I think they are on the right track...and what they need is gov support...to ramp up capacity from 15 cars to 1,000 cars....and slowly into a million of cars. Gov can try to offer incentives...or even buy into it.

Forward looking county like Machakos can step in...and offer Mobius free land.

A car industry can spun many other industries....so this Mobius guys need support.

I hope they are not wasting time trying to manufacture many of the parts locally. They can outsource many of the parts while they develop their own local capacity to manufacture them. Some of the counties could also benefit by partnering to have the company locate the manufacture of one or two parts in the county. It does not have to be something big to start with. Perhaps mud guard, or bumper. They can later expand to bigger and more complicated parts. That would also form the basis for the counties expanding in to car manufacturing. China started off making parts for Japanese car industry.

[RV Pundit]

Ignored. Sounds like bla bla de bla bla.

There are so many corporations not just in Kenya but the world that have taken off without government shareholding,stop diverting from your earlier position,what drives a corporation is DEMAND DEMAND DEMAND not gov shareholding,That's what has led to success of safaricom,KWL,Uchumi,Kengen,KPLC etc etc Mobius will not be the only car manufacturer in the Kenya,there will be so many others and the best the gov can do is to offer a level playing field,we have i think 60,000 cars or so being imported annually vs gov leasing just 1200,if Mobius designs a sexy middle class car,it will sell,government should NOT BE A SHAREHOLDER in this Mobius corp it should keep off,if its any assistance yes but bringing in ethnic idiots in a promising corp is a No,

Lastly,you cannot compare venture capital with the return on equity in the long term,what that American billionaire has invested in mobius is very little compare to what he will earn in equity over long term,

Without Prejudice.

[Omollo]

Indeed but how many of those have been in car manufacturing in the last 50 years? How many times did the British government rescue British Car makers before recently carrying up hands? How many times has the US government poured cash in detroit and turned some of it in to equity? The greatest salesman for the US car and AERO Business remains the US government. How many times did successive US presidents arm twist Japan and China to buy US cars? Boeing, Lockheed, Mcdonnell Douglas  benefited from government intervention (and still do).

There cannot be enough demand for a newbie car locally manufactured. Just like GoK assisted Car assemblies based in Kenya by passing a policy giving them preference, so should it do in respect of Mobibus.

There are so many corporations not just in Kenya but the world that have taken off without government shareholding,stop diverting from your earlier position,what drives a corporation is DEMAND DEMAND DEMAND not gov shareholding,That's what has led to success of safaricom,KWL,Uchumi,Kengen,KPLC etc etc

Mobius will not be the only car manufacturer in the Kenya,there will be so many others and the best the gov can do is to offer a level playing field,we have i think 60,000 cars or so being imported annually vs gov leasing just 1200,if Mobius designs a sexy middle class car,it will sell,government should NOT BE A SHAREHOLDER in this Mobius corp it should keep off,if its any assistance yes but bringing in ethnic idiots in a promising corp is a No,

Lastly,you cannot compare venture capital with the return on equity in the long term,what that American billionaire has invested in mobius is very little compare to what he will earn in equity over long term,

Without Prejudice.

[Georgesoros]

Pundit,
Im with you in this, but govt should only give tax incentives for a given period. Nothing else.

[RV Pundit]

Tax incentive would be too little in such a capital intensive project. Beside gok will not be giving them anything for free...but for substantial share of equity...gov can give them 100 acres of land...and inject say 1b every yr.

Pundit,
Im with you in this, but govt should only give tax incentives for a given period. Nothing else.

[Georgesoros]

Most projects that govt invests in comes with political patronage, thats why am against govt. Giving land and tax incentives is OK. What I dislike is direct investment. Then corruption sets in and blah blah. We saw what happened to Nyayo car.

Tax incentive would be too little in such a capital intensive project. Beside gok will not be giving them anything for free...but for substantial share of equity...gov can give them 100 acres of land...and inject say 1b every yr.

Pundit,
Im with you in this, but govt should only give tax incentives for a given period. Nothing else.

[Mr Mansfield.]

Indeed but how many of those have been in car manufacturing in the last 50 years? How many times did the British government rescue British Car makers before recently carrying up hands? How many times has the US government poured cash in detroit and turned some of it in to equity? The greatest salesman for the US car and AERO Business remains the US government. How many times did successive US presidents arm twist Japan and China to buy US cars? Boeing, Lockheed, Mcdonnell Douglas  benefited from government intervention (and still do).

There cannot be enough demand for a newbie car locally manufactured. Just like GoK assisted Car assemblies based in Kenya by passing a policy giving them preference, so should it do in respect of Mobibus.

Omollo,If you look at the time the government bailed out deloitte,banks,automakers,insurance companies etc etc...its when the economy had collapsed and the gov was bringing it back to its feet,if you look at my first reply you will see i am against government shareholding not assistance at the time of need,some of those companies like Boeing you've mentioned are transnational interms of the shareholding,financing,supply chain and sales while Japan and USA had a tradewar on autos,

Lastly,You should distinguish between mobius and local car assemblies,in the case of mobius its a fairly priced car affordable by kenyan middle class,most of the 60,000 vehicle kenyans import cost an average of 1MN so if mobius improves on design,there is a huge market potential unlike those peugot,toyota and land rover being sold locally at prohibitive prices,we import mitumba Japanese cars because they are cheap to buy and maintain and well designed,if mobius works on that,it has great market potential,

Without Prejudice.

[RV Pundit]

This is different. This is more like vodafone-GOK. Gok will not be owning it fully but jointly with folks who understand something about car business[mobius]. This has worked before. Hilton,Continentental,KQ,Kwal, name it....gov has shares..but management is with wazungus. If this was Nyayo car parastal (fully owned) they would not have sold 15 cars already...but these guys have bootstrapped few resources and produces some cars...they need a boost..and nobody else can risk the money part treasury risking our collective money...

That is SOP for growing industries..from infancy to maturity.

Most projects that govt invests in comes with political patronage, thats why am against govt. Giving land and tax incentives is OK. What I dislike is direct investment. Then corruption sets in and blah blah. We saw what happened to Nyayo car.

[Mr Mansfield.]

govt should only give tax incentives for a given period. Nothing else.

Right,Like it does to the EPZ on zero tax on raw materials,tax holiday and such things,and since there will be many car manufacturers with time,this incentive should be offered to all of them not just one....look at most state corporations,they are choked by corruption and most end up being privatised to realize their objectives,gov should keep off completely,

Without Prejudice.