2007 GE County Wise - Be The Judge who Won .....

[RV Pundit]

You can never rewrite history try as much..waste of time..kibaki rigged massively...every one saw it..first time in kenya observers refuse to give it clean bill.That is why Kenya went to war with 600k evicted

[Nowayhaha]

Easy to throw the word rigging. Same word ODMers and Raila supporters have been using even in 2013 and 2017 and by extension in the upcomming 2022 elections.
P.E.V. happened because of Raila refusing to accept defeat and inciting the masses before during campaign and after . Almost a replica happened in 2017 only these time around the masses were enlightened and police force ready.

You can never rewrite history try as much..waste of time..kibaki rigged massively...every one saw it..first time in kenya observers refuse to give it clean bill.That is why Kenya went to war with 600k evicted

[RV Pundit]

No he rigged. He forced ROs to delay the results in his strongholds - got the number of top up he wanted - then ordered RO to alter the figures. This documented by the media, observers, agents and everyone with a brain.

Unfortunately you do not have any brain left - after taking too much drugs in Mombasa.

To call what Kibaki did rigging is even abuse of the word. Moi use to rig. Kibaki violently executed a coup that lead to death of many, eviction of 600k and huge destruction of property.

Easy to throw the word rigging. Same word ODMers and Raila supporters have been using even in 2013 and 2017 and by extension in the upcomming 2022 elections.
P.E.V. happened because of Raila refusing to accept defeat and inciting the masses before during campaign and after . Almost a replica happened in 2017 only these time around the masses were enlightened and police force ready.

[Nowayhaha]

2013 results were also delayed.  Do you also want to say 2013 elections were rigged.
The Media messed up 2007 election by relaying unverified results.
In 2013 results were delayed by more days in comparison to 2007.
The Premature releying of results by media houses before verification led to the belief by Odmers that they were winning election.
I have never in my life used drugs unlike you who binge drinks everyday. If it is about rigging all indicators show Raila is thenone who rigged. Its unscientific to have 96% voter turn out. but for you thats okei. Its always okei to you as long as it supports your views.

No he rigged. He forced ROs to delay the results in his strongholds - got the number of top up he wanted - then ordered RO to alter the figures. This documented by the media, observers, agents and everyone with a brain.

Unfortunately you do not have any brain left - after taking too much drugs in Mombasa.

To call what Kibaki did rigging is even abuse of the word. Moi use to rig. Kibaki violently executed a coup that lead to death of many, eviction of 600k and huge destruction of property.

Easy to throw the word rigging. Same word ODMers and Raila supporters have been using even in 2013 and 2017 and by extension in the upcomming 2022 elections.
P.E.V. happened because of Raila refusing to accept defeat and inciting the masses before during campaign and after . Almost a replica happened in 2017 only these time around the masses were enlightened and police force ready.

[RV Pundit]

Media houses had video evidence where RO announced results at constitutuency - and what was finally announced at KICC was totally different - nearly all corrections added Kibaki numbers - and reduced Raila numbers.

Observers also documented many such cases...and nearly all refused to give the elections a clean bill of health. All evidence they have shown Kibaki numbers inflated - Raila numbers deflated - from what they had observed at various tallying centers.

Party agents did the same.

Right at KICC - Martha Karua PNU appointed commisioners were also altering results in the guise of verification. This was first rigging - when Martha and Kibaki picked referees - something that even Moi didnt do in 1997.

The evidence of rigging is too overwhelmingly..

I am afraid if you do not use drugs - because then it mean your madness is more serious.

Turnout.

2013 was biometric based....in most places 98 percent of voters were identified by biometric...meaning they turned out to vote.

National turnout was 85 percent.

This was 2013 turnout for Luo Nyanza
SIAYA   92.47%
KISUMU   90.45%
HOMABAY   94.14%
MIGORI   92.02%

Do you think they rigged 2013 too? When Biometric identified the voters?

In 2007 - as part of my prediction for turnout - I did historical analysis since 1992 - and I came up with predicted turnout like see - because what I discovered was that historically Kalenjin and Luos turned out at very high rate - the third were kikuyus.

NYANZA PROV   Reg Votes 05   % Turn Out(2005)   Exp Turn Out
Mbita    31172   71.60%   83.600%
Bobasi    64861   40.90%   55.900%
Gwassi    28494   65.10%   80.100%
Kuria    49555   52.10%   57.100%
Nyatike    42245   89.10%   96.100%
Bomachoge    57997   39.50%   44.500%
Rongo    58942   77.50%   89.500%
Bonchari    34278   45.10%   50.100%
Nyaribari Masaba    46239   41.20%   46.200%
Nyaribari Chache    51460   39.00%   44.000%
Kitutu Chache    67900   42.00%   47.000%
Kitutu Masaba    65854   41.50%   46.500%
West Mugirango    55295   43.20%   48.200%
South Mugirango    47162   39.70%   44.700%
Rarieda    43718   58.10%   73.100%
Uriri    34187   80.80%   95.800%
Migori    52589   74.30%   89.300%
Ugenya    70162   54.10%   69.100%
Bondo    47928   59.30%   74.300%
Kisumu Town East    44248   53.50%   68.500%
Kisumu Town West    71477   45.70%   60.700%
Kisumu Rural    43012   58.30%   73.300%
Nyando    44712   68.00%   83.000%
Gem    51920   52.70%   67.700%
Nyakach    45704   67.30%   82.300%
Kasipul Kabondo    64355   72.30%   87.300%
Karachuonyo    52606   78.40%   93.400%
Rangwe    60453   66.60%   81.600%
Ndhiwa    51301   74.60%   89.600%
Muhoroni    48009   59.50%   74.500%
Alego    66481   59.10%   74.100%
   1594316      70.035%


And it panned out exactly that way.

EXCEPT FOR KIBAKI STRONGHOLDS where MASSIVE BRAZEN RIGGING HAPPEN

2013 results were also delayed.  Do you also want to say 2013 elections were rigged.
The Media messed up 2007 election by relaying unverified results.
In 2013 results were delayed by more days in comparison to 2007.
The Premature releying of results by media houses before verification led to the belief by Odmers that they were winning election.
I have never in my life used drugs unlike you who binge drinks everyday. If it is about rigging all indicators show Raila is thenone who rigged. Its unscientific to have 96% voter turn out. but for you thats okei. Its always okei to you as long as it supports your views.

[mankind]

   This use of sensational language...brazen  rigging is what was used to justify violence.  I  challenged RV to do a side by side comparison of  registered voters verses the election results and show the turnout percentages. You get a very different picture.  I  wish I had the time to do it like he does.  Raila lost in so many non gema constituencies in luhyia, kisii and Turkana even myself I didn't know until I looked at the results.  Now forget the big scary words and put up the numbers side by side then let everyone be the judge.  Of course rigging occurred but it's not that hard to figure out what the truth might have looked like. Another interesting picture I saw was that in ODM areas outside Luo Nyanza Raila won but Kibaki still got a good chunk of the votes like at the Coast and Rv proper.  Just pull those areas and confirm for yourself.  Kibaki go 3k here 5k there which essentially neutralized those huge numbers in Luo Nyanza.  The same happened in Ukambani where Kalonzo won with huge numbers but Kibaki would get several thousand votes.  RV needs to remember the media was mostly hostile to Kibaki and had been for months so take their reporting not so seriously.  Remember them parading a fake returning officer for was it Molo? 

[RV Pundit]

How does turnout difference help you. I studied turnout in 2007 as it was one main contention I had with Prof Papaf (Namwamba); otherwise Kibaki brazenly rigged. All the rigging was documented by media houses, all the observers missions, etc.The dead give away was the delaying of GEMA stronghold results so they would know how much figures to alter.

2007 rigging started with Martha Karua unilaterally appointing ECK commissioners..leaving Kivuitu the lone man out.

Kivuitu severally claimed some ROS had gone missing or were not responding to calls or that he doesnt even know who won or lost.

The rigging was brazen.

The violence is squarely on Kibaki, Martha Karua and PNU guys like you. You caused it. Then responded by attempting to massacre poor Luos. You filled Kisumu morgues in two days. Kalenjin had to come to finish the war and rescue the the ingranate Raila odinga. He didnt even say thank you.

   This use of sensational language...brazen  rigging is what was used to justify violence.  I  challenged RV to do a side by side comparison of  registered voters verses the election results and show the turnout percentages. You get a very different picture.  I  wish I had the time to do it like he does.  Raila lost in so many non gema constituencies in luhyia, kisii and Turkana even myself I didn't know until I looked at the results.  Now forget the big scary words and put up the numbers side by side then let everyone be the judge.  Of course rigging occurred but it's not that hard to figure out what the truth might have looked like. Another interesting picture I saw was that in ODM areas outside Luo Nyanza Raila won but Kibaki still got a good chunk of the votes like at the Coast and Rv proper.  Just pull those areas and confirm for yourself.  Kibaki go 3k here 5k there which essentially neutralized those huge numbers in Luo Nyanza.  The same happened in Ukambani where Kalonzo won with huge numbers but Kibaki would get several thousand votes.  RV needs to remember the media was mostly hostile to Kibaki and had been for months so take their reporting not so seriously.  Remember them parading a fake returning officer for was it Molo? 

[mankind]

 Because it helps prove if rigging was that big.  If turn out was 75% then is that really big or just normal.  Now picture this... Raila lost  Kwanza, sabotage, won Chera by less than 1000 votes, in Eldoret North kwa Ruto  he got  about 80k vs Kibaki  23k votes, Eldoret East he got  59k to Kibaki  12k, Eldoret South 46k vs 16k, Addai 38k vs 6k, Imgwen 51k vs 8k, Tinderbox 49k vs 6k, Baring East  lost to Kibaki 7600 to 4k,Eldama Ravine  Raila  26k vs 9k, Kuresoi 50k vs 19k, Kilgore 22k vs 8k, Narok  North  44k vs 21k, Narok South 48k vs 12k,  Kajiado North  he  lost  49k to 25k,  won Kajiado Central  26k to 13k, Malava  19k to 14k, Lugari  42k to 21k, Mumbai 38k to 8k, Lurambi  38k vs 17k, Shinyalu  27k vs 10k ,Ikolomani 19k vs 8k, Emuhaya 30k vs 13k, Hamish 28k vs 10k, Mt Elgon 29k vs 8k, . He lost  Kimilili  35k to 17k, lost  Webuye 29k to 19k, lost  Sirisia  32k to 13k, lost  Bumula  23k to 9k . In Budalangi with  Namwamba swearing by his name in parliament  Raila  12k vs 7k for Kibaki,  lost  Kuria 23k vs  19k ,  Bonchari  Raila  14k vs Kibaki  11k,  lost  South  Mogirango  21k vs 14k, lost  Bomachoge  26k to  18k , won Bobasi 28k vs  21k,  lost Nyaribari Masaba  19k to  12k, lost  Nyaribari  Chache  19k vs 15k, won Kitutu Chache  26k vs 21k, lost  Kitutu  Masaba  29k vs  23k, lost  West  Mogirango 26k  to  17k, lost  North  Mogirango Borabu  32kvs 24k.
   Now if you drop any bias you can clearly see that words such as Raila had massive support everywhere as opposed to Kibaki  central province only created a perception not born by reality. Railas win was a creation of the media hype for months leading to the election.  Numbers speak for themselves  sir.   And one last thing....Kivuitu never said he didn't know who won. The question put to him in front of everyone was did Kibaki win in a fair election and he said He didn't know.  Another of those media creations.

[RV Pundit]

it's easy - take 2005 referendum for yes - and those became Kibaki numbers. ODM - got it name literally from referendum - then Kalonzo took off with Kambas - and Uhuru-Moi family went PNU.

Response   Votes   %
 Yes   2,532,918   41.65%
 No   3,548,477   58.35%

Now if you take Kalonzo Kambas 9 percent from ODM - it becomes 50 percents - take Uhuru-Kanu maybe 2 percent - see Raila should have won by 46-48 percent.

Kibaki didnt do anything btw 2005 to 2007 to alter his fortunes...in fact 3 months to election he was still disorganized.

Eventually he resorted to using prov administration - chiefs and aps.

Any turnout by GEMA would be cancelled out by Luo+Kalenjin. The rest of kenya did not bother much with elections.

Kibaki rigged - brazenly

Because it helps prove if rigging was that big.  If turn out was 75% then is that really big or just normal.  Now picture this... Raila lost  Kwanza, sabotage, won Chera by less than 1000 votes, in Eldoret North kwa Ruto  he got  about 80k vs Kibaki  23k votes, Eldoret East he got  59k to Kibaki  12k, Eldoret South 46k vs 16k, Addai 38k vs 6k, Imgwen 51k vs 8k, Tinderbox 49k vs 6k, Baring East  lost to Kibaki 7600 to 4k,Eldama Ravine  Raila  26k vs 9k, Kuresoi 50k vs 19k, Kilgore 22k vs 8k, Narok  North  44k vs 21k, Narok South 48k vs 12k,  Kajiado North  he  lost  49k to 25k,  won Kajiado Central  26k to 13k, Malava  19k to 14k, Lugari  42k to 21k, Mumbai 38k to 8k, Lurambi  38k vs 17k, Shinyalu  27k vs 10k ,Ikolomani 19k vs 8k, Emuhaya 30k vs 13k, Hamish 28k vs 10k, Mt Elgon 29k vs 8k, . He lost  Kimilili  35k to 17k, lost  Webuye 29k to 19k, lost  Sirisia  32k to 13k, lost  Bumula  23k to 9k . In Budalangi with  Namwamba swearing by his name in parliament  Raila  12k vs 7k for Kibaki,  lost  Kuria 23k vs  19k ,  Bonchari  Raila  14k vs Kibaki  11k,  lost  South  Mogirango  21k vs 14k, lost  Bomachoge  26k to  18k , won Bobasi 28k vs  21k,  lost Nyaribari Masaba  19k to  12k, lost  Nyaribari  Chache  19k vs 15k, won Kitutu Chache  26k vs 21k, lost  Kitutu  Masaba  29k vs  23k, lost  West  Mogirango 26k  to  17k, lost  North  Mogirango Borabu  32kvs 24k.
   Now if you drop any bias you can clearly see that words such as Raila had massive support everywhere as opposed to Kibaki  central province only created a perception not born by reality. Railas win was a creation of the media hype for months leading to the election.  Numbers speak for themselves  sir.   And one last thing....Kivuitu never said he didn't know who won. The question put to him in front of everyone was did Kibaki win in a fair election and he said He didn't know.  Another of those media creations.

[mankind]

it's easy - take 2005 referendum for yes - and those became Kibaki numbers. ODM - got it name literally from referendum - then Kalonzo took off with Kambas - and Uhuru-Moi family went PNU.

Response   Votes   %
 Yes   2,532,918   41.65%
 No   3,548,477   58.35%

Now if you take Kalonzo Kambas 9 percent from ODM - it becomes 50 percents - take Uhuru-Kanu maybe 2 percent - see Raila should have won by 46-48 percent.

Kibaki didnt do anything btw 2005 to 2007 to alter his fortunes...in fact 3 months to election he was still disorganized.

Eventually he resorted to using prov administration - chiefs and aps.

Any turnout by GEMA would be cancelled out by Luo+Kalenjin. The rest of kenya did not bother much with elections.

Kibaki rigged - brazenly

Because it helps prove if rigging was that big.  If turn out was 75% then is that really big or just normal.  Now picture this... Raila lost  Kwanza, sabotage, won Chera by less than 1000 votes, in Eldoret North kwa Ruto  he got  about 80k vs Kibaki  23k votes, Eldoret East he got  59k to Kibaki  12k, Eldoret South 46k vs 16k, Addai 38k vs 6k, Imgwen 51k vs 8k, Tinderbox 49k vs 6k, Baring East  lost to Kibaki 7600 to 4k,Eldama Ravine  Raila  26k vs 9k, Kuresoi 50k vs 19k, Kilgore 22k vs 8k, Narok  North  44k vs 21k, Narok South 48k vs 12k,  Kajiado North  he  lost  49k to 25k,  won Kajiado Central  26k to 13k, Malava  19k to 14k, Lugari  42k to 21k, Mumbai 38k to 8k, Lurambi  38k vs 17k, Shinyalu  27k vs 10k ,Ikolomani 19k vs 8k, Emuhaya 30k vs 13k, Hamish 28k vs 10k, Mt Elgon 29k vs 8k, . He lost  Kimilili  35k to 17k, lost  Webuye 29k to 19k, lost  Sirisia  32k to 13k, lost  Bumula  23k to 9k . In Budalangi with  Namwamba swearing by his name in parliament  Raila  12k vs 7k for Kibaki,  lost  Kuria 23k vs  19k ,  Bonchari  Raila  14k vs Kibaki  11k,  lost  South  Mogirango  21k vs 14k, lost  Bomachoge  26k to  18k , won Bobasi 28k vs  21k,  lost Nyaribari Masaba  19k to  12k, lost  Nyaribari  Chache  19k vs 15k, won Kitutu Chache  26k vs 21k, lost  Kitutu  Masaba  29k vs  23k, lost  West  Mogirango 26k  to  17k, lost  North  Mogirango Borabu  32kvs 24k.
   Now if you drop any bias you can clearly see that words such as Raila had massive support everywhere as opposed to Kibaki  central province only created a perception not born by reality. Railas win was a creation of the media hype for months leading to the election.  Numbers speak for themselves  sir.   And one last thing....Kivuitu never said he didn't know who won. The question put to him in front of everyone was did Kibaki win in a fair election and he said He didn't know.  Another of those media creations.

     You are one stubborn guy. If 2020 US elections taught us one thing it is the fact that no country is immune to propaganda especially when very smart people like the Josh Hawleys were pushing the lies. For someone like you who is definitely smart to keep parroting lies even when evidence clearly shows the opposite to be true, now imagine the common villager with very little analytical skills. I told you and posted material to debunk that 2005 referendum myth. Remember the kadhi courts issue dividing the church was not there in 2007. Referendum was a totally different animal sir. Now are you claiming Kibaki rigged in all those areas I pointed out earlier. The truth is he sold with the help of the media and some western capitals starting wit London a monkey and unfortunately it caused chaos. He tried the same in 2013 and 2017 but this time there was no Rv with the warriors to enforce the lies. Watch him do the same in 2022. Are you not the one who basically proved the so called tyranny of numbers exists for real or you dont believe it yourself?

[RV Pundit]

Wacha bangi boss - Kadhi issues/abortion was in 2010  - Church in 2005 referendum were non issues. The main problem was Majimbo in Bomas draft. This led to assisination of Luo prof Mbai - who had found a middle ground btw federalism & decentralisation - and Kibaki running to Kilifi to draft his own constitution - with district as form of decentralizations  - and present it to referendum.

2005-2007 central issues was Majimbo/Devolution - which GEMA opposed - and wanted decentralisations with district as the unit. Then second issue was parliamentary system with powerful PM.

[mankind]

Wacha bangi boss - Kadhi issues/abortion was in 2010  - Church in 2005 referendum were non issues. The main problem was Majimbo in Bomas draft. This led to assisination of Luo prof Mbai - who had found a middle ground btw federalism & decentralisation - and Kibaki running to Kilifi to draft his own constitution - with district as form of decentralizations  - and present it to referendum.

2005-2007 central issues was Majimbo/Devolution - which GEMA opposed - and wanted decentralisations with district as the unit. Then second issue was parliamentary system with powerful PM.

   https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/december/2.20.html

   https://opencommons.uconn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1166&context=econ_wpapers

     Check on the above links

[RV Pundit]

tenous link.Talks about 2004 draft.Second has nothing on church. We were here. If you have memory lapses...you can relie on me.

   https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/december/2.20.html

   https://opencommons.uconn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1166&context=econ_wpapers

     Check on the above links

[RV Pundit]

See how Kibaki got Yes votes - he really had almost no growth areas that would alter 2007 - hence the brazen rigging

[Kadudu]

This map cannot be correct. No way Kibaki got 40-50% in Western region. Remember even his sitting VP Awori lost his parliamentary seat. Kibaki did not even get 25% of that region.

[RV Pundit]

Ni ya referendum 2005.

This map cannot be correct. No way Kibaki got 40-50% in Western region. Remember even his sitting VP Awori lost his parliamentary seat. Kibaki did not even get 25% of that region.

[mankind]

This map cannot be correct. No way Kibaki got 40-50% in Western region. Remember even his sitting VP Awori lost his parliamentary seat. Kibaki did not even get 25% of that region.

     Exactly my earlier observation. A perception versus reality where folks were made to believe that Raila had overwhelming support everywhere while Kibaki had support only in Central. Now look at the results and pay attention to luhyia constituencies outside of maragoli areas plus bukusu dominated constituencies, kisii constituencies, coast and Turkana. Even in Rv proper Kibaki got thousands of votes. Take your time to analyse the figures for yourself. Dont buy the hype of big words...brazen, massive etc

     https://aceproject.org/regions-en/countries-and-territories/KE/reports/Presidential_Results.pdf

[RV Pundit]

For him to have got 42 percent in 2005 referendum....he surely had to get votes outside MT kenya communities. In 2005 - he scored 37 percent in Luhya. He had very little scope to improve - apart from maybe in increasing turnout in mt kenya - but similarly kalenjiin+luos were going to match the turnout.

     Exactly my earlier observation. A perception versus reality where folks were made to believe that Raila had overwhelming support everywhere while Kibaki had support only in Central. Now look at the results and pay attention to luhyia constituencies outside of maragoli areas plus bukusu dominated constituencies, kisii constituencies, coast and Turkana. Even in Rv proper Kibaki got thousands of votes. Take your time to analyse the figures for yourself. Dont buy the hype of big words...brazen, massive etc

     https://aceproject.org/regions-en/countries-and-territories/KE/reports/Presidential_Results.pdf

[mankind]

For him to have got 42 percent in 2005 referendum....he surely had to get votes outside MT kenya communities. In 2005 - he scored 37 percent in Luhya. He had very little scope to improve - apart from maybe in increasing turnout in mt kenya - but similarly kalenjiin+luos were going to match the turnout.

     Exactly my earlier observation. A perception versus reality where folks were made to believe that Raila had overwhelming support everywhere while Kibaki had support only in Central. Now look at the results and pay attention to luhyia constituencies outside of maragoli areas plus bukusu dominated constituencies, kisii constituencies, coast and Turkana. Even in Rv proper Kibaki got thousands of votes. Take your time to analyse the figures for yourself. Dont buy the hype of big words...brazen, massive etc

     https://aceproject.org/regions-en/countries-and-territories/KE/reports/Presidential_Results.pdf

   I dont know why you keep using this 2005 referendum numbers.Now are you claiming Kibaki stole in all those areas outside his stronghold in 2007 includind deep in Rv where he was getting several thousand votes here and there? Rift valley gave Raila huge support but was not enough because it was cancelled out by the numbers by luhyias , kisii, kuria, turkana and some coastal constituencies. If you do a quick sample like I did earlier you can see the picture. Its like the US economy growing at 2% beating a smaller one growing at 10%. It is clear Raila left rift valley with a lot of support but not enough to cancel out the numbers in Central province, upper eastern and the larger gema diaspora .

[RV Pundit]

2005 was credible election. Nothing changed politically in 2yrs time. I have never said Kibaki rigged everywhere. I have also never said Kibaki had no support - my father was one of his greatest supporter. He mostly rigged in his strongholds - GEMA- and in remote areas like NEP/Turkanas - it was of course harder to rig in ODM strongholds of Luo+Luhya+Kalenjin.

The areas kibaki rigged are well known - and the figures inflated has been identified.

One good example is Molo Const. EU Observers noted Kibaki votes were inflated by almost 20k. In many parts of Mt kenya - inflation was 10-20k - you do that in 50 const....you're talking rigging 600k-800K votes.

Kibaki rigged brazenly. No amount of history rewritting will change that.

   I dont know why you keep using this 2005 referendum numbers.Now are you claiming Kibaki stole in all those areas outside his stronghold in 2007 includind deep in Rv where he was getting several thousand votes here and there? Rift valley gave Raila huge support but was not enough because it was cancelled out by the numbers by luhyias , kisii, kuria, turkana and some coastal constituencies. If you do a quick sample like I did earlier you can see the picture. Its like the US economy growing at 2% beating a smaller one growing at 10%. It is clear Raila left rift valley with a lot of support but not enough to cancel out the numbers in Central province, upper eastern and the larger gema diaspora .