Laikipia and CONservationists

[Georgesoros]

Is the housing problem in Kenya due to shortage of land or due to people with few resources?
Govt has a lot of land in Kenya and also in Nairobi. It is the resources that a lacking and not the availability of land.
One thing I know for sure, Nairobi went to the dogs the minute like minded people like you from ocha came to Nairobi in their late teens and started having a say on the way the city is run.
Stop also believing you can build houses for all the resident of Nairobi with gov funds. Give the people means of earning decent money and they will find a way of living decently.

It was a mistake to leave housing entirely to private sector.
When you grew up in Ololo - you lived in cheap public sector housing.
We need the same...British were able to build those house..but we cannot????????
It can only be cheap because gov owns the land.
But if I buy an acre for 1m dollars..
Then housing is already too expensive for Kibera and Mathare slum dwellers.
If a housing developer start with free land, free basic infrastructure,zero rated building materials, then they can build colonial type mass cheap housing schemes for the poor.

Housing is expensive in Kenya is due to people hoarding land. I buy 50 acres and wait to flip. I add no value to it, but this land keeps rising in value due to FOMO . No costs incurred while holding these land and I flip at 100%. Tax every inch of land and youll see  inflation in land pricing disappear.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Housing is expensive in Kenya is due to people hoarding land. I buy 50 acres and wait to flip. I add no value to it, but this land keeps rising in value due to FOMO . No costs incurred while holding these land and I flip at 100%. Tax every inch of land and youll see  inflation in land pricing disappear.

Absolutely. Idle land should be heavily taxed. The current tenant of state stands to lose massive if that happens. Land should be communal, who gave private individuals the right to fence off huge sections of this country. Land is not created by anyone, it should not be hoarded, shouldn't be a vehicle for speculation.

[RV Pundit]

I invite you to critically look at issues.
Only very old wazee and few rich barons can afford to hoard land. Very small percentages.
Majority of kenyans - will sell - as soon as their old wazee dies.
or as soon as they get titledeed.

This is a very poor country - so land hoarding doesnt exist.

Now why is some land expensive - for me - it's down infrastructure.

There is very little in quality land - out of nearly 250,000kms of road network - only 25,000kms are paved - that is 10 percent livable decent land.

Piped water and sewage is even worse.
At least electricity is getting better.

So you got few quality land - service land - that appreciates - as everyone rushes to buy land with piped water, electricity and paved roads.
Move deeper - and you will get land for even 100 dollars per acre.

The people speculating land - go to those areas - like in Kajaido - buy huge land from Maasai cheaply - and wait for roads, water and electricity to arrive. And then cut the land into plots. Get huge profit - and move deeper.

The other aspect is in the few cities we have like Nairobi or Mombasa - there is no proper mass transport - that would allow you to live 100kms or even 150kms from Nairobi - and be able to commute - through expressways/ proper roads or train.

So you find land in few hotspots selling for serious money - few hotspots are in nairobi.

To lower land prices -  equally develop the country - invest in basic infrastructure.

And people wont spend a fortunes to find land with paved road, piped water and electricity.

Move out of Nairobi and small corridor around old railway line...and you will be offered land for even 10 dollars an acre. I have gone to see land being sold for 120 dollars in border of Kericho and Kisumu. This where land speculators - buy - wait for tarmac or electricity - and then sell at a profit.

And now imagine how much cheaply you can buy land in 2/3 of Kenya that is essentially a wilderness - go deeper into coast - and you can buy as much land as you want - cheaply.

Problem is the effective demand versus supply.

Supply of quality land is lacking. - This is livable serviced land - land with paved road, piped water and electricity - at the minimum.

Check any land advert - the biggest selling point is not the land - it's the utilities - it's near paved road, there is water, there is SGR that will pass there in 10yrs, there is a proposed project xyz.

If it was in US or Europe - it would be about the land. NOT utilities. It almost given that every inch of land will have utilities - and even if offgrid - at least some decent utilities.

Housing is expensive in Kenya is due to people hoarding land. I buy 50 acres and wait to flip. I add no value to it, but this land keeps rising in value due to FOMO . No costs incurred while holding these land and I flip at 100%. Tax every inch of land and youll see  inflation in land pricing disappear.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Mara Kericho tea, mara Nrb national park, Mara conservationists, Mara hii, there, where, everywhere.
Same crap like 2007.
I hope Ndii stats are not Trumpian??
If locals generate billions, where did it go? Into the dust?
All I know, Mugabe gave land to thousands - then Zim started importing food  after that.

Yeah I have a feeling we are putting our hearts ahead of our brains on this matter. This aliens really turned around that province. The locals are very happy with NRT's especially the women. Opportunities galore.

I don't know, sometimes I'm resentful like akina Ndii  but then I have doubts. You just know those pastoralists are going to graze every blade of grass to dust if they are given the whole province.

They have no clue. We need a solution.

[RV Pundit]

Why did the Alien move enmasse from England to US, Australia, Africa, Newlands, New Englands, New Manchesters and many colonies.
Population explosion.
The pastoralist when British arrived were very few.
Kenya population at 1900 is estimated at 1million. Kenyans have been around for centuries..but population was mere 1m.
Bring in better medicine, nutrition and all that...and you have new dynamics.
My great grandparents were dying in their 30s and 40s...and theirs was healthy system of mortality...if you are sadist.
People lived short brutish live - if we go by Alien literature.
Nearly every family had 2-3 kids - not by choice - but due to very high mortality.
My grandmother told me it was almost a miracle to have 4 surviving kids - it took a lot of witchcraft and wading of witchraft to see such miracle.
In come the Mzungu - with his medicine for both human and cattle - and now from 1M - by the time he left - it was 8M.
From 1962 - it's now 50M.
Meanwhile England which was 50m is probaly 55m.
Kenya population in 50yrs - has increased 8 folds! And that with serious family planning. Uganda is even crazy!

Now that you understand the problem.

Let go to solutions.

The 50m poor kenyans do not have any sophistication to do anything apart from farm, herd and fish.

If they were Alien Bazungu - they would have gone to abroad, cut forests, colonize others, name it.

This will get worse before it get better.

It never going to be acceptable to have one man with 100,000 acres while 100,000 people have nothing.

The big land owners had better find some other asset classes to hold.

There is no India for Africans. there is no US to invade. Maybe someone find us a new earth.

In the meantime 50m poor kenyans need food, their cows need water and pasture, and that is minimum for them to eke a very basic life.

Yeah I have a feeling we are putting our hearts ahead of our brains on this matter. This aliens really turned around that province. The locals are very happy with NRT's especially the women. Opportunities galore.

I don't know, sometimes I'm resentful like akina Ndii  but then I have doubts. You just know those pastoralists are going to graze every blade of grass to dust if they are given the whole province.

They have no clue. We need a solution.

[RV Pundit]

I also invite you to study how your Luo tribesmen have overfished Lake victoria - even the fingerlings - omenas are now depleted. Museveni is trying so much jailing kenyans - and trying to save lake victoria - from over-fishing.

As you enjoy eating millions of omenas - remember lake victoria is dying - and now fish is imported from china.

Museveni in Uganda has tried to put serious controls in licensing of fishing but it going to be a lost war....as millions of uganda are born every day.

After we are done eating the fingerlings - what will eat next?

. You just know those pastoralists are going to graze every blade of grass to dust if they are given the whole province.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

I also invite you to study how your Luo tribesmen have overfished Lake victoria - even the fingerlings - omenas are now depleted. Museveni is trying so much jailing kenyans - and trying to save lake victoria - from over-fishing.

As you enjoy eating millions of omenas - remember lake victoria is dying - and now fish is imported from china.

Museveni in Uganda has tried to put serious controls in licensing of fishing but it going to be a lost war....as millions of uganda are born every day.

After we are done eating the fingerlings - what will eat next?

It ain't news we are seriously degrading our resource base on land and on water in this country.

Solution: Community wide meetings to first of all lay out the problems, then come up with holistic solution - not just one that satisfies our tumbo today but leaves us hungry tomorrow.

Example: Problem is overfishing, we set aside areas where fish can recover. North sea fish stocks have recovered as a result of agreement between countries bordering the sea.

Example: Raw human effluent flowing into waterways. Teach, sensitize community to use compost toilet instead.

[RV Pundit]

Holistic is luxury we cannot afford. We need grow our fish. We need to grow animal feeds using GMOs and chemical fertilizers.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Holistic is luxury we cannot afford. We need grow our fish. We need to grow animal feeds using GMOs and chemical fertilizers.

Actually GMO's are luxury we can't afford - after all they are proprietary technologies owned by large western chemical companies that we would be forced to pay for heftily, fertilizers vile vile, imported fossil fuels - again we can ill afford. Holistic - is free and harmless. Pick your choice.

RV Kirgit needs to educate you on the dangers of GMO's. It is criminal anyone even advocate for it.

[RV Pundit]

Leave us with conspiracy theories. GMO and Monsantos.
GMO is open field...you cannot patent it forever...there are generics and all the work.

Lake victoria natural fish cannot sustain a population of 200M that we are approaching in East Africa. It simply cannot. So holistic approach of giving fish a break to breed is not working. Uganda is trying - but poor fishermen are pulling all stops to beat it.

We need SCIENTIFIC driven process to feed our large population. GMOS/Artificial fertilizers/Aquaculture. All these ARE PROVEN MODELS feeding 1.5B chinese - and 7B people worldwide

The natural way of things cannot feed and clothe 7-10B people.

Our biggest natural resource is OUR BRAINS - and as human we need to make it work. We are not animals in earth. WE ARE GODS. We are special. We cannot live organic natural life like other animals.

Actually GMO's are luxury we can't afford - after all they are proprietary technologies owned by large western chemical companies that we would be forced to pay for heftily, fertilizers vile vile, imported fossil fuels - again we can ill afford. Holistic - is free and harmless. Pick your choice.

RV Kirgit needs to educate you on the dangers of GMO's. It is criminal anyone even advocate for it.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Leave us with conspiracy theories. GMO and Monsantos.
GMO is open field...you cannot patent it forever...there are generics and all the work.

Lake Victoria natural fish cannot sustain a population of 200M that we are approaching in East Africa. It simply cannot. So holistic approach of giving fish a break to breed is not working. Uganda is trying - but poor fishermen are pulling all stops to beat it.

Fish farming is not economical. Quality wise they are poor imitations of the real thing. Farmed fish is not efficient use of resources, it is akin to holding cattle in pens feeding them hay instead of letting them graze naturally which produces superior product. Fish farming is capital intensive - you need feed, drugs to treat the diseases caused by fish being in close proximity, land, etc It doesn't beat nature on volume either

as you are trying to insinuate.

We need SCIENTIFIC driven process to feed our large population. GMOS/Artificial fertilizers/Aquaculture. All these ARE PROVEN MODELS feeding 1.5B chinese - and 7B people worldwide

The natural way of things cannot feed and clothe 7-10B people.

Our biggest natural resource is OUR BRAINS - and as human we need to make it work. We are not animals in earth. WE ARE GODS. We are special. We cannot live organic natural life like other animals.

Oh my word! I was like you when I was a teen.

The religious belief in the scientific method, check

We are Gods who have dominion over nature, check

Technology is the solution for all our woes, check

You don't know it but you are a neo-environmentalist.

https://orionmagazine.org/article/dark-ecology/

^^ This article is one of my favorites of all time.
 

[RV Pundit]

You believe in two things that do not go hand in hand.

Sustainable FAST GROWING Development

It not possible.

You develop - like US or Europe - then you afford sustainable high quality natural organic lifestyle...maisha kwa kipole with your pet - you start hugging trees - visiting nature parks - and your life highlighte is to see animals in their natural fauna and flora - and all the nice little things...and you start seeing people eking their life by cutting trees or torturing animals as cruel primitives.

When you're developing - you need to do a lot of nasty things and cause a lot of damage to yourself, to the enviroment and name it. Without it you remain poor or even die. The choice is not the best fish - it's ANY FISH

But once you develop - then everything is great - your population stabilize and even reduce - many things we only do it once - like railways we only build them once in every 200yrs - same with most houses - and name it.

Now you can afford all the nice things you see ABROAD. And their economy doesnt grow  - it just usual 1 or 2 percent.

Africa and developing world simply cannot afford SUSTAINABLE FAST GROWTH. IT NOT POSSIBLE.

All the ideas you've been indoctrinated in the west is SIMPLY WESTERN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES ATTEMPT TO THROW DOWN THE LADDER after reaching the apex.


You're telling us to just climb to the top using our bare limbs when you took a ladder to the top and threw it away.

Leave us with conspiracy theories. GMO and Monsantos.
GMO is open field...you cannot patent it forever...there are generics and all the work.

Lake Victoria natural fish cannot sustain a population of 200M that we are approaching in East Africa. It simply cannot. So holistic approach of giving fish a break to breed is not working. Uganda is trying - but poor fishermen are pulling all stops to beat it.

Fish farming is not economical. Quality wise they are poor imitations of the real thing. Farmed fish is not efficient use of resources, it is akin to holding cattle in pens feeding them hay instead of letting them graze naturally which produces superior product. Fish farming is capital intensive - you need feed, drugs to treat the diseases caused by fish being in close proximity, land, etc It doesn't beat nature on volume either

as you are trying to insinuate.

We need SCIENTIFIC driven process to feed our large population. GMOS/Artificial fertilizers/Aquaculture. All these ARE PROVEN MODELS feeding 1.5B chinese - and 7B people worldwide

The natural way of things cannot feed and clothe 7-10B people.

Our biggest natural resource is OUR BRAINS - and as human we need to make it work. We are not animals in earth. WE ARE GODS. We are special. We cannot live organic natural life like other animals.

Oh my word! I was like you when I was a teen.

The religious belief in the scientific method, check

We are Gods who have dominion over nature, check

Technology is the solution for all our woes, check

You don't know it but you are a neo-environmentalist.

https://orionmagazine.org/article/dark-ecology/

^^ This article is one of my favorites of all time.
 

[RV Pundit]

You cannot have both - you have to choose zero economic growth - and sustainability. The moment you want to accelerate development or economic growth - then you must accelerate the extraction of natural or earth resources - at the rate - it cannot sustainably replenish itself.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/02/is-sustainable-growth-possible/

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

You believe in two things that do not go hand in hand.

Sustainable FAST GROWING Development

It not possible.

You develop - like US or Europe - then you afford sustainable high quality natural organic lifestyle...maisha kwa kipole with your pet - you start hugging trees - visiting nature parks - and your life highlighte is to see animals in their natural fauna and flora - and all the nice little things...and you start seeing people eking their life by cutting trees or torturing animals as cruel primitives.

When you're developing - you need to do a lot of nasty things and cause a lot of damage to yourself, to the enviroment and name it. Without it you remain poor or even die. The choice is not the best fish - it's ANY FISH

But once you develop - then everything is great - your population stabilize and even reduce - many things we only do it once - like railways we only build them once in every 200yrs - same with most houses - and name it.

Now you can afford all the nice things you see ABROAD. And their economy doesnt grow  - it just usual 1 or 2 percent.

Africa and developing world simply cannot afford SUSTAINABLE FAST GROWTH. IT NOT POSSIBLE.

All the ideas you've been indoctrinated in the west is SIMPLY WESTERN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES ATTEMPT TO THROW DOWN THE LADDER after reaching the apex.


You're telling us to just climb to the top using our bare limbs when you took a ladder to the top and threw it away.

What is development? We need to define that first.

Go first

[RV Pundit]

Development - is to grow! it's to add something;
And as we all you know - our resources are finite; when you add something; you subtract something elsewhere.
Sustainable development - is grow without hurting mother nature  - by extracting resources at the rate that it will replenish or renew itself.
Therefore I believe and research has shown.
Sustainable development is an oxymoron - it's only possible with zero growth (meaning no development) - it only possible as maintenance mode.
So basically you need to grow first (and fast).
Then aim for sustainability - to maintain development.
Now Africa or Kenya we have problem where we need to grow  - very fast!
Europe have already grown to a DEVELOPED state - and are basically able to sustainably develop or maintain - no pressure - they are just about maintaining their current lifestyle.
Heck they can even afford to reduce some of their luxuries - like big fuel guzzler's for bicycles
But in Africa - we are dealing with serious under development issues  - from basic needs.

So sustainable development in Africa or Kenya is only possible if western developed world are willing to pay us - the opportunity cost of foregoing using our resources - for example in carbon credit.

The opportunity cost of NNP is 30B dollars - that is average per acre land in Nairobi National Park - 1 million dollars times 30,000 acres.

Are western developed world ready to pay us 30B dollar - by visiting these animals - and paying say 1000 dollars?

And then we can use that money to build high speed rail so hustlers in Isinya - can arrive for their mjengo or industrial area job?

if they cannot - then it's CONservancy.

If they cannot - they should SHUT UP - and let us use NNP more ECONOMICALLY. Resources are finite and very precious things to be wasted.

What is development? We need to define that first.

Go first

[Georgesoros]

in 1970 there were a few thousands in rural areas. Now its millions. With all the poop they produce that goes into ground water, mixed with gmos, fertilizers, etc
All this does not need attention?
People have been hoarding land, raising inflation astronomically, which a regular guy cant afford to feed family. And this is not a problem? food is land dependent. business is land dependent. shelter is land dependent. If this basic input is astronomical, how can you expect someone to start a business to grow food, own a restaurant, etc.
Poverty breeds more poverty, so there neeeds to be better policies than we currently have. Kibaki was a policy driven guy, and that is how a few pple got into the middle class.

[Kadudu]

A very fundamental question.

What is development? We need to define that first.

Go first