Laikipia and CONservationists

[RV Pundit]

We have to tell ourselves the truth.
We cannot be happy when 50 percent of Nairobeans are living in such deplorable condition.
It goes against my upbringing as Kalenjin - we are very communal just people.
I cannot be happy when Kibra is staring at me - in fact - if Ruto become president - we need to plant trees around kibra.
It really pricks my conscience and I would never live in langata.

And just opposite of Langata - lies 30B dollars resources.

Ruto wont go for this in 1st term - but 2nd term - hapo Ruto will start with NNP - by then Ruto will have incited Slum dwellers and they will invade it.

Beside Ruto has Phd in Plant ecology and all things enviroment - so he will be the enviromental expert.

People DO NOT DESTROY environment for fun.

Maasai do not overgraze and overstock for fun.

It's because of poverty. Kipsigis invading Mau are not rich - they are poor - cutting trees to grow food. Not to keep few lions

As we work on family planning - there has to be flexibility - in using our resources better including forests and animal parks.

We have to constantly do the maths. We cannot AFFORD to buy DEVELOPED world luxuries. Even Trump said NOPE to climate change.

Is NNP giving us anything apart from bragging rights? Ecologically? Economically.

Natural resources are NOT GOD - to be left virgin - they are to be used - we just have to study the ecological and economic - opportunity cost - and see. Maybe if we delete NNP - and give KWS money to buy land in Turkana and keep many animals - it will be better.

of course rich white people from developed world will cause chaos but this is 2020 - not 1990s when Moi depended on donor aid.

Some of these racist people will donate billion of dollars if they heard animals were dying - but donate zero - if they heard African were dying - for them black people are worse than their dogs - their dogs live pampered life - more than a kibera kid will ever dream of.

I'm beginning to suspect your Gema drinking buddy occasionally logs in under you handle 

Jaluo this and that...wacha ukabila na concentrate on the matter at hand.

Why are you endlessly calling for de-gazettement of Nairobi National Park?

Kuna nini hapo? Kwani looter alimbiwa kuna madini hapo?


As for the rest of your anti environmental diatribes, pure diarrhea.

Even Luto can't dare touch those resources. The days of Moi are over.

We have restored Mau forest, deal with it.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

We have to tell ourselves the truth.
We cannot be happy when 50 percent of Nairobeans are living in such deplorable condition.
It goes against my upbringing as Kalenjin - we are very communal just people.
I cannot be happy when Kibra is staring at me - in fact - if Ruto become president - we need to plant trees around kibra.
It really pricks my conscience and I would never live in langata.

And just opposite of Langata - lies 30B dollars resources.

Ruto wont go for this in 1st term - but 2nd term - hapo Ruto will start with NNP - by then Ruto will have incited Slum dwellers and they will invade it.

Beside Ruto has Phd in Plant ecology and all things enviroment - so he will be the enviromental expert.

People DO NOT DESTROY environment for fun.

Maasai do not overgraze and overstock for fun.

It's because of poverty. Kipsigis invading Mau are not rich - they are poor - cutting trees to grow food. Not to keep few lions

As we work on family planning - there has to be flexibility - in using our resources better including forests and animal parks.

We have to constantly do the maths. We cannot AFFORD to buy DEVELOPED world luxuries. Even Trump said NOPE to climate change.

Is NNP giving us anything apart from bragging rights? Ecologically? Economically.

Natural resources are NOT GOD - to be left virgin - they are to be used - we just have to study the ecological and economic - opportunity cost - and see. Maybe if we delete NNP - and give KWS money to buy land in Turkana and keep many animals - it will be better.

of course rich white people from developed world will cause chaos but this is 2020 - not 1990s when Moi depended on donor aid.

Some of these racist people will donate billion of dollars if they heard animals were dying - but donate zero - if they heard African were dying - for them black people are worse than their dogs - their dogs live pampered life - more than a kibera kid will ever dream of.

Without even going to the environmental demerits of degazetting NNP, it won't benefit the small guy the land will be snapped up by a coalition of rich foreigners and Mt Kenya elites. Not smart.

2nd objection: We are mismanaging the land we already have access to, having access to more land won't make us better stewards.

Contraception is free stop having kids ovyo ovyo and life will be good.

[RV Pundit]

I doubt NNP is of any ecological significance - that reducing it to a respectable zoo - would impact anyone. Already with closure of the corridor to Amboselli - it's dead - and is more a glorified zoo.

Yes a few fat cats will benefit more but generally humans will benefit.

Contraception is for the future - unless you want us to kill those already born and living in deep poverty.

Without even going to the environmental demerits of degazetting NNP, it won't benefit the small guy the land will be snapped up by a coalition of rich foreigners and Mt Kenya elites. Not smart.

2nd objection: We are mismanaging the land we already have access to, having access to more land won't make us better stewards.

Contraception is free stop having kids ovyo ovyo and life will be good.

[vooke]

Zero sum

Whoever buys 30,000 acres has enough options as we speak to burn cash.

So disposing it adds NOTHING to the economy

My argument is 30B dollars worth of prime real estate in the middle of a city like Nairobi should not be wasted on some few lions.
We can use part of it to settle slum dwellers, part of it to do so much.
30,000 acres is a lot.
NNP is about 1/5 of Nairobi landmass.

They use trains which are e cheaper while the dirt poor walk to work
Seems like your only argument is they will save a few coins in transport. Is that how to generate hundreds of billions?

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

I doubt NNP is of any ecological significance - that reducing it to a respectable zoo - would impact anyone. Already with closure of the corridor to Amboselli - it's dead - and is more a glorified zoo.

Yes a few fat cats will benefit more but generally humans will benefit.

Contraception is for the future - unless you want us to kill those already born and living in deep poverty.

What is it about NNP that has you salivating bana ? 

Hakuna kale hapo, Mt Kenya elites and foreigners stand to profit as I said, the average Nairobi dweller will not see any benefit instead they will lose green lung  sorely needed in densely populated toxic urban concrete jungle.

Even more puzzling you don't want to touch mzungu ranches in Laikipia but you would have us knock down a national park?

Make me understand you logic.

[RV Pundit]

It's public land for public good. Gov will be one selling or using it for public good projects. This will unlock 30B dollars to Nairobi economy compared to maybe 1M dollars we now get. Econ 101. You should go back to Common Sense 101.

Zero sum

Whoever buys 30,000 acres has enough options as we speak to burn cash.

So disposing it adds NOTHING to the economy

[RV Pundit]

It's prime land - 5kms from Nairobi city. Show me a city with national park - in the world - it doesnt exist.  It doesnt make economic sense.

As for Laikipia - the land is private - and gov will have to spend our tax money to buy it for pastoralism. There is no other way to resolve that - grabbing their land will crush FDI and will send wrong signal on private property.

As for Kericho or Kakuzi - the land is own by county govs - it's a community land - and that should be easy problem to sort.

What is it about NNP that has you salivating bana ? 

Hakuna kale hapo, Mt Kenya elites and foreigners stand to profit as I said, the average Nairobi dweller will not see any benefit instead they will lose green lung  sorely needed in densely populated toxic urban concrete jungle.

Even more puzzling you don't want to touch mzungu ranches in Laikipia but you would have us knock down a national park?

Make me understand you logic.

[vooke]

They could start by disposing shares in Safcon and thousands of other parcels if it was all about raising cash.

Only crooks benefit from public-private transfers.

It's prime land - 5kms from Nairobi city. Show me a city with national park - in the world - it doesnt exist.  It doesnt make economic sense.

As for Laikipia - the land is private - and gov will have to spend our tax money to buy it for pastoralism. There is no other way to resolve that - grabbing their land will crush FDI and will send wrong signal on private property.

As for Kericho or Kakuzi - the land is own by county govs - it's a community land - and that should be easy problem to sort.

What is it about NNP that has you salivating bana ? 

Hakuna kale hapo, Mt Kenya elites and foreigners stand to profit as I said, the average Nairobi dweller will not see any benefit instead they will lose green lung  sorely needed in densely populated toxic urban concrete jungle.

Even more puzzling you don't want to touch mzungu ranches in Laikipia but you would have us knock down a national park?

Make me understand you logic.

It's public land for public good. Gov will be one selling or using it for public good projects. This will unlock 30B dollars to Nairobi economy compared to maybe 1M dollars we now get. Econ 101. You should go back to Common Sense 101.

Zero sum

Whoever buys 30,000 acres has enough options as we speak to burn cash.

So disposing it adds NOTHING to the economy

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

It's prime land - 5kms from Nairobi city. Show me a city with national park - in the world - it doesnt exist.  It doesnt make economic sense.

All National Parks are prime land, what is your argument?

Mau is prime land too 

Should we degazette it?

As for Laikipia - the land is private - and gov will have to spend our tax money to buy it for pastoralism. There is no other way to resolve that - grabbing their land will crush FDI and will send wrong signal on private property.

As for Kericho or Kakuzi - the land is own by county govs - it's a community land - and that should be easy problem to sort.

Mogotio goat 

Not all the land is owned by White ranchers, the largest is held by the government. There is a conspiracy by the government, black settlers and white ranchers to push out the pastoralist natives. Kenya ina wenyewe, there are second class citizens in this country whose life and land are very cheap.

[Kadudu]

Nairobi.
You are contradicting yourself. Leave NNP alone and concentrate on Laikipia and Mau. NNP is not for Kales to discuss about.

It's prime land - 5kms from Nairobi city. Show me a city with national park - in the world - it doesnt exist. It doesnt make economic sense.

As for Laikipia - the land is private - and gov will have to spend our tax money to buy it for pastoralism. There is no other way to resolve that - grabbing their land will crush FDI and will send wrong signal on private property.

As for Kericho or Kakuzi - the land is own by county govs - it's a community land - and that should be easy problem to sort.

[RV Pundit]

We cannot leave 30B dollars staring at us. Stop dreaming. Kales must also own Nairobi. Mau pia is own by Kales and Maasai- it's a community land - for our use when we want. Laikipia pia - pokot need a share. Kericho hiyo ni yetu - we are taking it - for Mzungu mistreated Talais.

Nairobi.
You are contradicting yourself. Leave NNP alone and concentrate on Laikipia and Mau. NNP is not for Kales to discuss about.

[Kadudu]

Can you explain why a city state like Singapore has achieved so much despite not having massive land? Land availability is not the issue here, but what you do with the land you have.
I know you want to make another Pipeline out of NNP.
Why have you not called for the scrapping of Uhuru Park and City Park? These are right in the middle of the city. Prime land as you would call them.

We cannot leave 30B dollars staring at us. Stop dreaming. Kales must also own Nairobi. Mau pia is own by Kales and Maasai- it's a community land - for our use when we want. Laikipia pia - pokot need a share. Kericho hiyo ni yetu - we are taking it - for Mzungu mistreated Talais.

[RV Pundit]

Singapore is nothing without the straits - the natural suez canal or panama canal that force all asian ships to pass there.
We need more parks like Uhuru parks;
But not NNP or big Karua or Ngong forest
Just 10 percent forest cover in Nairobi.
Nairobi has 45 percent green cover I think
And more than half resident are crammed in slums

Can you explain why a city state like Singapore has achieved so much despite not having massive land? Land availability is not the issue here, but what you do with the land you have.
I know you want to make another Pipeline out of NNP.
Why have you not called for the scrapping of Uhuru Park and City Park? These are right in the middle of the city. Prime land as you would call them.

We cannot leave 30B dollars staring at us. Stop dreaming. Kales must also own Nairobi. Mau pia is own by Kales and Maasai- it's a community land - for our use when we want. Laikipia pia - pokot need a share. Kericho hiyo ni yetu - we are taking it - for Mzungu mistreated Talais.[/quote

[Kadudu]

Nairobi has a lot of apartments standing empty. Why not start there and move people living in Mathare to these emtpty apartments? Charity stands at home.

Singapore is nothing without the straits - the natural suez canal or panama canal that force all asian ships to pass there.
We need more parks like Uhuru parks;
But not NNP or big Karua or Ngong forest
Just 10 percent forest cover in Nairobi.
Nairobi has 45 percent green cover I think
And more than half resident are crammed in slums

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Nairobi has a lot of apartments standing empty. Why not start there and move people living in Mathare to these emtpty apartments? Charity stands at home.

Start with Weston 

[Kadudu]

You want Kibera residents to aquire kipindupindu?

Start with Weston 

[RV Pundit]

It was a mistake to leave housing entirely to private sector.
When you grew up in Ololo - you lived in cheap public sector housing.
We need the same...British were able to build those house..but we cannot????????
It can only be cheap because gov owns the land.
But if I buy an acre for 1m dollars..
Then housing is already too expensive for Kibera and Mathare slum dwellers.
If a housing developer start with free land, free basic infrastructure,zero rated building materials, then they can build colonial type mass cheap housing schemes for the poor.

We need real cheap public housing where poor can pay 1,000ksh max per month - or they will create more slums.

But if you advocate for doing nothing - then millions of Nairobi will continue living in slums - where 3million people live in slums - occupying about 12 percent of Nairobi land mass - and these are mostly horiffic slums nobody should be allowed to live in. Not even animals.

Nairobi has a lot of apartments standing empty. Why not start there and move people living in Mathare to these emtpty apartments? Charity stands at home.

[Kadudu]

Is the housing problem in Kenya due to shortage of land or due to people with few resources?
Govt has a lot of land in Kenya and also in Nairobi. It is the resources that a lacking and not the availability of land.
One thing I know for sure, Nairobi went to the dogs the minute like minded people like you from ocha came to Nairobi in their late teens and started having a say on the way the city is run.
Stop also believing you can build houses for all the resident of Nairobi with gov funds. Give the people means of earning decent money and they will find a way of living decently.

It was a mistake to leave housing entirely to private sector.
When you grew up in Ololo - you lived in cheap public sector housing.
We need the same...British were able to build those house..but we cannot????????
It can only be cheap because gov owns the land.
But if I buy an acre for 1m dollars..
Then housing is already too expensive for Kibera and Mathare slum dwellers.
If a housing developer start with free land, free basic infrastructure,zero rated building materials, then they can build colonial type mass cheap housing schemes for the poor.

[RV Pundit]

Kwani your parents were born in Nairobi?
They came from Vihiga, found decent cheap colonial housing.
Why cant somebody from Vihiga or Kakamega arrive from Ocha today, find cheap affordable mass housing?
It simple - we stopped building them housing.
The last major one was Umoja.
Then Moi tried in 90s with NHC - and the likes.
An average Kalenjin would land in Nairobi and find himself living in one of those Nyayo house, pay rent of 1,000 that was also mortage
Tenant purchase programme.


So yes 1) It's an income problem 2) It's location problem. All the slums are located near prime areas and rent is about 10 dollars.

We need land near these poor people places of work - I mean industrial area, Business districts and richer neigherhood.
How do we build cheap houses that rent out like Ololo - for 500-1000shs?

Simple - retraced our steps to 1990s - when we dropped the ball - and gov got out public housing.

Kamau arrived from Kiambu - bought plots - and started building ugly rental flats.
Onyango arrived from Kisumu - found himself in slum - and build an extensions.

Kadudu of now - will arrive from Kakamega - to land in a slum.

We need cheap mass housing funded by gov.

one of least cost solution...as identified already by gov...gov provide free land.

The problem the land they found is mostly in Kitengela and athi river..for example 15,000 acres disused  quarry in Portland cement....but will poor go and live that far????? They left free housing in Ocha to come and hustle in urban areas...

The public land in Nairobi identified - can only house 67,000 units. That can max hold about 300,000 people - 10 percent of the current slums and near slum dwellers.

So we end up in Nairobi National Park - we find 30,000 acres of land - some lonely lions - and problem solved - given chinese 15,000 acres to build upper and middle class estates - and 15,000 to build mass cheap housing.

And send the LIONS to OCHA.

We dont need lions in Nairobi - they should be in OCHA...to occupy space created by humans as they migrate to urban areas...our urbanization rate is 4 percent meaning problem will continue to compound.

Is the housing problem in Kenya due to shortage of land or due to people with few resources?
Govt has a lot of land in Kenya and also in Nairobi. It is the resources that a lacking and not the availability of land.
One thing I know for sure, Nairobi went to the dogs the minute like minded people like you from ocha came to Nairobi in their late teens and started having a say on the way the city is run.
Stop also believing you can build houses for all the resident of Nairobi with gov funds. Give the people means of earning decent money and they will find a way of living decently.

[Georgesoros]

Mara Kericho tea, mara Nrb national park, Mara conservationists, Mara hii, there, where, everywhere.
Same crap like 2007.
I hope Ndii stats are not Trumpian??
If locals generate billions, where did it go? Into the dust?
All I know, Mugabe gave land to thousands - then Zim started importing food  after that.