From Bernard Hinga to Hilary Mutyambai: Your favorite police boss?

[Gikomba_Hawker]

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It's very interesting to see the various characters who have occupied this seat. I don't think I have a favorite. Also, I think I prefer the title "Commissioner of Police" than "Inspector General." Then there's the name of the force's headquarters: Vigilance House. It always sounds like a joke. Would higher salaries produce a better police force? I don't know. What kind of training is available at Kenya Police College in Kiganjo? What African country has a truly professional police force that can make one proud? According to a number of sources, it's Botswana. Why does Kenya not appear in the top 10 lists? This issue should be front and center as Kenya heads to elections. Which presidential candidate has the best ideas on how to reform Kenya's terrible police force?

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/entertainment/lifestyle/2001309225/kenyas-12-police-bosses-in-focus-a-closer-look-into-their-tenure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya_Police
https://www.kenyapolice.go.ke/2015-09-07-17-41-13/kenya-police-college.html

[Gikomba_Hawker]

Why is the Kenyan police force good at parades and lousy in policing? 

World best police passing out parade at the Kenya Police College Kiganjo presided by Uhuru Kenyatta

[RV Pundit]

You must be very stupid to imagine kenya has a favourite cop; flip the question; who was the worse. Kenya police are rank bottom of any index that has been done - cruelty, corruption, stupidity - name it.

[Gikomba_Hawker]

Kenyans don't have a favorite cop? Why?

What ideas does your buddy Ruto have for reforming the force? We know very well that he loves their services in terms of personal protection. But how does the so-called Hustler No. 1 intend to make the force truly serve the regular guy on the street? After all, does he not always shout that his main concern is the bottom-up approach? How then does this approach apply to the force?

Please enlighten us, mzee.
 

You must be very stupid to imagine kenya has a favourite cop; flip the question; who was the worse. Kenya police are rank bottom of any index that has been done - cruelty, corruption, stupidity - name it.

[RV Pundit]

Police is independent. I have NOT heard of any ideas from Ruto. But my idea is simple - send every policeman to their village - for their own sanity - and for the sanity of country. You cannot be cruel and corrupt in your own village. That simple act will reform the police...sending them to guard their own wifes, parents and loved ones...will make them realize why they should behave responsibly.

Only those higher ranks  - like OCS - should be delocalized. Everyone else should be send to the nearest police station to their home. I believe cops also want to live in their village, save money, be with their loved ones and provide security with enough local knowledge of the thugs and the issues.

Just like we do for teachers - and nurses now.

Kenyans don't have a favorite cop? Why?

What ideas does your buddy Ruto have for reforming the force? We know very well that he loves their services in terms of personal protection. But how does the so-called Hustler No. 1 intend to make the force truly serve the regular guy on the street? After all, does he not always shout that his main concern is the bottom-up approach? How then does this approach apply to the force?

Please enlighten us, mzee.
 

You must be very stupid to imagine kenya has a favourite cop; flip the question; who was the worse. Kenya police are rank bottom of any index that has been done - cruelty, corruption, stupidity - name it.

[Gikomba_Hawker]

I disagree. Your idea would produce tribal militias. A corrupt politician like Ruto would convert his area's police force into one big bodyguard force (Jeshi la Hustler). And people like you would be advising the force on how to enforce bogus backroom political deals between Ruto and other corrupt tribal leaders via Internet "punditry."

If the national government, with all its resources has already been captured, a local police force would be kidnapped at birth by the likes of Ruto.

A professional, independent police force is the last thing a crook like Ruto wants. But he would love a force that enables his corruption, protects his loot and supports his political agenda.

Police is independent. I have NOT heard of any ideas from Ruto. But my idea is simple - send every policeman to their village - for their own sanity - and for the sanity of country. You cannot be cruel and corrupt in your own village. That simple act will reform the police...sending them to guard their own wifes, parents and loved ones...will make them realize why they should behave responsibly.

Only those higher ranks  - like OCS - should be delocalized. Everyone else should be send to the nearest police station to their home. I believe cops also want to live in their village, save money, be with their loved ones and provide security with enough local knowledge of the thugs and the issues.

Just like we do for teachers - and nurses now.

Kenyans don't have a favorite cop? Why?

What ideas does your buddy Ruto have for reforming the force? We know very well that he loves their services in terms of personal protection. But how does the so-called Hustler No. 1 intend to make the force truly serve the regular guy on the street? After all, does he not always shout that his main concern is the bottom-up approach? How then does this approach apply to the force?

Please enlighten us, mzee.
 

You must be very stupid to imagine kenya has a favourite cop; flip the question; who was the worse. Kenya police are rank bottom of any index that has been done - cruelty, corruption, stupidity - name it.

[RV Pundit]

That is nonsense. The  GSU, Army and such standing force - will remain with the big guns - and any tribal militias - will not last a day. There are how many thousands of illegal small arms in Kenya?

These local police do not need any serious weapons to guard their village...even batons and rusty g3 is good enough. Only those living in insecure places will need guns - and maybe a little extra help - the rest - the unarmed chiefs and ass chiefs - are enough to enforce order. Give them wooden G3s.

This irrational fear - is the same fear that held up devolution and majimbo - because most of you are afraid of tribal militias.

First the OCS and all senior cops will NOT be local. Secondly NIS is all over. CID will remain national. Army is national. GSU is national. If anybody was to decide to use their firearms - in tribal war - it would be easy to know.

It obvious no amount of reforms will reform the police - we vetted them again - we have done all that - not working.

The problem is STRUCTURAL - it starts with deploying somebody thousands miles to guard people he has no business guarding them.

I disagree. Your idea would produce tribal militias. A corrupt politician like Ruto would convert his area's police force into one big bodyguard force (Jeshi la Hustler). And people like you would be advising the force on how to enforce bogus backroom political deals between Ruto and other corrupt tribal leaders via Internet "punditry."

If the national government, with all its resources has already been captured, a local police force would be kidnapped at birth by the likes of Ruto.

A professional, independent police force is the last thing a crook like Ruto wants. But he would love a force that enables his corruption, protects his loot and supports his political agenda.

[Gikomba_Hawker]

We had so-called national GSU and Army during the 2007/8 post-election violence. Yet you saw how useless they were in protecting victims. Some people were able to camp out in police stations precisely because they were viewed as non-tribal places. Imagine if the police stations were run by the tribes committing the violence. Would they have been seen as safe havens? I don't think so. If a church could not be a safe haven in Ruto's own constituency, how then would a police station, manned by his tribesmen, would have helped? Maybe the police officers themselves would have been the perpetrators of the violence. In any case, if the present is any indication, maybe a good number of the police in Ruto's area would be preoccupied with guarding his loot, rather than protecting the poor hustlers he claims to love. Stop playing "punditry" games with us.

That is nonsense. The  GSU, Army and such standing force - will remain with the big guns - and any tribal militias - will not last a day. There are how many thousands of illegal small arms in Kenya?

These local police do not need any serious weapons to guard their village...even batons and rusty g3 is good enough. Only those living in insecure places will need guns - and maybe a little extra help - the rest - the unarmed chiefs and ass chiefs - are enough to enforce order. Give them wooden G3s.

This irrational fear - is the same fear that held up devolution and majimbo - because most of you are afraid of tribal militias.

First the OCS and all senior cops will NOT be local. Secondly NIS is all over. CID will remain national. Army is national. GSU is national. If anybody was to decide to use their firearms - in tribal war - it would be easy to know.

It obvious no amount of reforms will reform the police - we vetted them again - we have done all that - not working.

The problem is STRUCTURAL - it starts with deploying somebody thousands miles to guard people he has no business guarding them.

I disagree. Your idea would produce tribal militias. A corrupt politician like Ruto would convert his area's police force into one big bodyguard force (Jeshi la Hustler). And people like you would be advising the force on how to enforce bogus backroom political deals between Ruto and other corrupt tribal leaders via Internet "punditry."

If the national government, with all its resources has already been captured, a local police force would be kidnapped at birth by the likes of Ruto.

A professional, independent police force is the last thing a crook like Ruto wants. But he would love a force that enables his corruption, protects his loot and supports his political agenda.

[RV Pundit]

Typical fool.
in 2007 - police were distributed nationally- it didn't help at all.
In fact - what happened was ODM leaning tribal police - would back the ODM gangs - the PNU would be shooting to kill - all of them pretending to be non-tribal.

Now if they were all from local area - the pressure on them to act non-tribally would be immense. If they misuse fire-arms they will be held to account.

They wont be hidding under the cover - like in 2007 - where I heard the Kalenjin-Luo-Luhyha police would tell warriors - endelea na kazi - while pretending to be opening the roads.

Eventually in Nakuru - the tribal police started shouting themselves - everyone claiming unaua watu wetu- and the army had to come in.

Nobody ever took responsibility for that - because well the police had all tribes.

We need to face our demons...live live...

Now PEV is something that happens maybe even 15yrs...but policing is daily affair.

You can mitigate the risk of tribal police going ethiopia kind of mess by downgrading the weapons they can carry...if they get armed only with pistols...that enough to police people.

And only policing that works is local police policing local people.

We had so-called national GSU and Army during the 2007/8 post-election violence. Yet you saw how useless they were in protecting victims. Some people were able to camp out in police stations precisely because they were viewed as non-tribal places. Imagine if the police stations were run by the tribes committing the violence. Would they have been seen as safe havens? I don't think so. If a church could not be a safe haven in Ruto's own constituency, how then would a police station, manned by his tribesmen, would have helped? Maybe the police officers themselves would have been the perpetrators of the violence. In any case, if the present is any indication, maybe a good number of the police in Ruto's area would be preoccupied with guarding his loot, rather than protecting the poor hustlers he claims to love. Stop playing "punditry" games with us.

[Gikomba_Hawker]

You are trying to be smart with us. The police force in 2007 was national yet it did a terrible job. But the point is it would have been far worse if the police force was tribal because it would have sided with the perpetrators of violence, or remained totally immobile while the killing and burning was going on.

I disagree with you on going local in terms of police, given the current condition Kenya is at. The culture of corruption still runs the country. You like insulting those who disagree with you as you spin your blackmailing agenda. But look at yourself in the mirror. Your basic claim on this forum is that Ruto is a thief but he's a thief you love. In fact, you love him so much that you would trust him with the highest office in Kenya. Kwenda! You over-estimate your so-called IQ. You represent precisely the culture of corruption that would kill on arrival any stupid attempt at a local police force. If someone like you can use such stupid political rationale, what about the Kalenjin police officer deployed to Ruto's home area with only so-called "Kiganjo training"? He would probably view Ruto as a person sent by God to bless Kenya with divine rule.

I know this really pains you but some of us will continue to refuse to go tribal and instead insist that Kenya deserves higher standards.

Stop playing "punditry" games with us! 
 

Typical fool.
in 2007 - police were distributed nationally- it didn't help at all.
In fact - what happened was ODM leaning tribal police - would back the ODM gangs - the PNU would be shooting to kill - all of them pretending to be non-tribal.

Now if they were all from local area - the pressure on them to act non-tribally would be immense. If they misuse fire-arms they will be held to account.

They wont be hidding under the cover - like in 2007 - where I heard the Kalenjin-Luo-Luhyha police would tell warriors - endelea na kazi - while pretending to be opening the roads.

Eventually in Nakuru - the tribal police started shouting themselves - everyone claiming unaua watu wetu- and the army had to come in.

Nobody ever took responsibility for that - because well the police had all tribes.

We need to face our demons...live live...

Now PEV is something that happens maybe even 15yrs...but policing is daily affair.

You can mitigate the risk of tribal police going ethiopia kind of mess by downgrading the weapons they can carry...if they get armed only with pistols...that enough to police people.

And only policing that works is local police policing local people.

We had so-called national GSU and Army during the 2007/8 post-election violence. Yet you saw how useless they were in protecting victims. Some people were able to camp out in police stations precisely because they were viewed as non-tribal places. Imagine if the police stations were run by the tribes committing the violence. Would they have been seen as safe havens? I don't think so. If a church could not be a safe haven in Ruto's own constituency, how then would a police station, manned by his tribesmen, would have helped? Maybe the police officers themselves would have been the perpetrators of the violence. In any case, if the present is any indication, maybe a good number of the police in Ruto's area would be preoccupied with guarding his loot, rather than protecting the poor hustlers he claims to love. Stop playing "punditry" games with us.

[RV Pundit]

Okay keep local police in non cosmopolitan areas - and have non tribal police in areas you fear so much.
You cannot live in fear of tribal clashes that happen every few years.
While police are harrasing, stealing and corrupting daily - all over kenya - they are neither happy - staying away from their families - and this reflect on their bad policing job.

That is why I call you stupid.

If civil war or PEV war - comes - nothing can stop it - not local police - not national police - political settlement like 2007 will - otherwise policing would at that point have collapsed - and you need the KDF.  KDF then become a slippery slope in a tribal country like Kenya. That will be last card to play.

THINK. Today if PEV starts - even if you have all police officers as kikuyus in rift valley - they cannot police a mass riot of 1 Million people stretching huge area - and deal with humanitarian crisis.

That is where you need different kind of police for such mass violence - you need GSUs and such - deployed in such numbers.

More police killing people - Local police of Mombasa will not kill fellow villagers in their custody
http://www.ipoa.go.ke/five-police-officers-to-be-charged-over-the-death-of-mr-caleb-ospino-otieno/

You are trying to be smart with us. The police force in 2007 was national yet it did a terrible job. But the point is it would have been far worse if the police force was tribal because it would have sided with the perpetrators of violence, or remained totally immobile while the killing and burning was going on.

I disagree with you on going local in terms of police, given the current condition Kenya is at. The culture of corruption still runs the country. You like insulting those who disagree with you as you spin your blackmailing agenda. But look at yourself in the mirror. Your basic claim on this forum is that Ruto is a thief but he's a thief you love. In fact, you love him so much that you would trust him with the highest office in Kenya. Kwenda! You over-estimate your so-called IQ. You represent precisely the culture of corruption that would kill on arrival any stupid attempt at a local police force. If someone like you can use such stupid political rationale, what about the Kalenjin police officer deployed to Ruto's home area with only so-called "Kiganjo training"? He would probably view Ruto as a person sent by God to bless Kenya with divine rule.

I know this really pains you but some of us will continue to refuse to go tribal and instead insist that Kenya deserves higher standards.

Stop playing "punditry" games with us! 
 

[Gikomba_Hawker]

You are the stupid one because you cannot handle the truth: the REAL problem is with the Rutos of Kenya. You can spin all kinds of "punditry" you want. So long as there is corruption at the heart of government, NOTHING will work.

Yes, there is a high national price to pay in supporting people like Ruto. There is no way to sugar-coat this.

Okay keep local police in non cosmopolitan areas - and have non tribal police in areas you fear so much.
You cannot live in fear of tribal clashes that happen every few years.
While police are harrasing, stealing and corrupting daily.
That is why I call you stupid.
If civil war or PEV war - comes - nothing can stop it - not local police - not national police - political settlement like 2007 will - otherwise policing would at that point have collapsed - and you need the KDF.

More police killing people - Local police of Mombasa will not kill fellow villagers in their custody
http://www.ipoa.go.ke/five-police-officers-to-be-charged-over-the-death-of-mr-caleb-ospino-otieno/

You are trying to be smart with us. The police force in 2007 was national yet it did a terrible job. But the point is it would have been far worse if the police force was tribal because it would have sided with the perpetrators of violence, or remained totally immobile while the killing and burning was going on.

I disagree with you on going local in terms of police, given the current condition Kenya is at. The culture of corruption still runs the country. You like insulting those who disagree with you as you spin your blackmailing agenda. But look at yourself in the mirror. Your basic claim on this forum is that Ruto is a thief but he's a thief you love. In fact, you love him so much that you would trust him with the highest office in Kenya. Kwenda! You over-estimate your so-called IQ. You represent precisely the culture of corruption that would kill on arrival any stupid attempt at a local police force. If someone like you can use such stupid political rationale, what about the Kalenjin police officer deployed to Ruto's home area with only so-called "Kiganjo training"? He would probably view Ruto as a person sent by God to bless Kenya with divine rule.

I know this really pains you but some of us will continue to refuse to go tribal and instead insist that Kenya deserves higher standards.

Stop playing "punditry" games with us! 
 

[RV Pundit]

Okay, engaging an idiot like you, is really a low point of my online experience.

You are the stupid one because you cannot handle the truth: the REAL problem is with the Rutos of Kenya. You can spin all kinds of "punditry" you want. So long as there is corruption at the heart of government, NOTHING will work.

Yes, there is a high national price to pay in supporting people like Ruto. There is no way to sugar-coat this.

[Gikomba_Hawker]

To me whatever so-called insults you use have no effect on me. I do not have an Internet ego to uphold. Whatever discomfort you think I will have is NOTHING compared to the struggle that the ordinary Kenyan goes through every day, while the Rutos spray him with dust as they zoom by with stolen vehicles and "impressive" personal security teams.

Okay, engaging an idiot like you, is really a low point of my online experience.

You are the stupid one because you cannot handle the truth: the REAL problem is with the Rutos of Kenya. You can spin all kinds of "punditry" you want. So long as there is corruption at the heart of government, NOTHING will work.

Yes, there is a high national price to pay in supporting people like Ruto. There is no way to sugar-coat this.

[Nowayhaha]

There you go again, would you please stop categorizing regions as provinces .That is so pre 2010 Constituion. Categorize them as Counties.
Out of the 5 Kalenjin Counties you will only find Kikuyus in Uasin Ngishu and this is in or near Eldoret town.

Okay keep local police in non cosmopolitan areas - and have non tribal police in areas you fear so much.
You cannot live in fear of tribal clashes that happen every few years.
While police are harrasing, stealing and corrupting daily - all over kenya - they are neither happy - staying away from their families - and this reflect on their bad policing job.

That is why I call you stupid.

If civil war or PEV war - comes - nothing can stop it - not local police - not national police - political settlement like 2007 will - otherwise policing would at that point have collapsed - and you need the KDF.  KDF then become a slippery slope in a tribal country like Kenya. That will be last card to play.

THINK. Today if PEV starts - even if you have all police officers as kikuyus in rift valley - they cannot police a mass riot of 1 Million people stretching huge area - and deal with humanitarian crisis.

That is where you need different kind of police for such mass violence - you need GSUs and such - deployed in such numbers.

More police killing people - Local police of Mombasa will not kill fellow villagers in their custody
http://www.ipoa.go.ke/five-police-officers-to-be-charged-over-the-death-of-mr-caleb-ospino-otieno/

You are trying to be smart with us. The police force in 2007 was national yet it did a terrible job. But the point is it would have been far worse if the police force was tribal because it would have sided with the perpetrators of violence, or remained totally immobile while the killing and burning was going on.

I disagree with you on going local in terms of police, given the current condition Kenya is at. The culture of corruption still runs the country. You like insulting those who disagree with you as you spin your blackmailing agenda. But look at yourself in the mirror. Your basic claim on this forum is that Ruto is a thief but he's a thief you love. In fact, you love him so much that you would trust him with the highest office in Kenya. Kwenda! You over-estimate your so-called IQ. You represent precisely the culture of corruption that would kill on arrival any stupid attempt at a local police force. If someone like you can use such stupid political rationale, what about the Kalenjin police officer deployed to Ruto's home area with only so-called "Kiganjo training"? He would probably view Ruto as a person sent by God to bless Kenya with divine rule.

I know this really pains you but some of us will continue to refuse to go tribal and instead insist that Kenya deserves higher standards.

Stop playing "punditry" games with us! 
 

[RV Pundit]

You're oversensitive:) There are kikuyus everywhere in rift valley; from Tranzoia(5-10 percent);uasin gishu (15 percent);nandi (small percentage); kericho (Londiani-Kipkelion), Nakuru (majority at 50 percent places...with border with kalenjin stretching all way - from kamara to naivasha), Baringo county (5-10 percent), Narok, Kajiado, Laikipia and Samburu.

So as you can see it's only in Bomet, Turkana, Elgeyo Marakwet and West Pokot that you do not find kikuyus outside a few settled in urban areas..in the former rift valley province.

There you go again, would you please stop categorizing regions as provinces . Categorize them as Counties.
Out of the 5 Kalenjin Counties you will only find Kikuyus in Uasin Ngishu and this is in or near Eldoret town.

[Nowayhaha]

First we dont have anything called Rift Valley Province in Kenya, Secondly, Transzoia,Nakuru, Narok , Kajiado, Laikipia and Samburu are not Kalenjin Counties. These are bare facts.

You're oversensitive:) There are kikuyus everywhere in rift valley; from Tranzoia(10 percent);uasin gishu (15 percent);nandi (small percentage); kericho (Londiani-Kipkelion), Nakuru (majority at 50 percent places...with border with kalenjin stretching all way - from kamara to naivasha), Baringo county (5-10 percent), Narok, Kajiado, Laikipia and Samburu.

So as you can see it's only in Bomet, Turkana, Elgeyo Marakwet and West Pokot that you do not find kikuyus outside a few settled in urban areas..in the former rift valley province.

There you go again, would you please stop categorizing regions as provinces . Categorize them as Counties.
Out of the 5 Kalenjin Counties you will only find Kikuyus in Uasin Ngishu and this is in or near Eldoret town.

[RV Pundit]

There is no kalenjin or kikuyu counties. All kenyans are allowed to settle anywhere. If you want a debate on the majority - then MOAS has those figures -if you want to go to historical claims - then pick the year.

There is still a provincial administration in kenya that National gov has refused to disband. Get used to it.

For example - 2019

Coast regional police commander Marcus Ocholla has been moved to Rift Valley region.

Rift Valley Regional Commissioner George Natembeya

Please you're overly sensitive.

First we dont have anything called Rift Valley Province in Kenya, Secondly, Transzoia,Nakuru, Narok , Kajiado, Laikipia and Samburu are not Kalenjin Counties. These are bare facts.

[Nowayhaha]

To cut stories short Provide MOAS with 2010 Census  Showing Kikuyu population numbers and  percentage in the following Counties
1.Baringo
2.Bomet
3.Kericho
4.Elgeyo Marakwet
5. Nandi
6. Uasin Ngishu.

There is no kalenjin or kikuyu counties. All kenyans are allowed to settle anywhere. If you want a debate on the majority - then MOAS has those figures -if you want to go to historical claims - then pick the year.

There is still a provincial administration in kenya that National gov has refused to disband. Get used to it.

For example - 2019

Coast regional police commander Marcus Ocholla has been moved to Rift Valley region.

Rift Valley Regional Commissioner George Natembeya

Please you're overly sensitive.

First we dont have anything called Rift Valley Province in Kenya, Secondly, Transzoia,Nakuru, Narok , Kajiado, Laikipia and Samburu are not Kalenjin Counties. These are bare facts.

[RV Pundit]

Refer to MOAS with 2009 census - I had found a link where they listed the top 3 population in every county or district

To cut stories short Provide MOAS with 2010 Census  Showing Kikuyu population numbers and  percentage in the following Counties
1.Baringo
2.Bomet
3.Kericho
4.Elgeyo Marakwet
5. Nandi
6. Uasin Ngishu.