Author Topic: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms  (Read 4962 times)

Offline RV Pundit

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IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« on: December 03, 2020, 12:01:09 PM »
Considering gov failure it more than welcome. Debt to GDP of 72% with nothing to show POST-SGR. This Jubilee 2.0 is huge disaster.

he government now plans to restructure most of these 127 loss-making corporations -- PRIVATIZE these 127 parastals.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business-news/article/2001395906/state-job-cuts-loom-in-yatani-deal-with-imf-for-more-cash

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2020, 12:56:48 PM »
Ruto borrow&build legacy. Watch and learn how Raila does it in Jubilee 2... akin to early NARC days.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2020, 01:17:38 PM »

NARA before re-basing - average was 4% - there was a lot of confusion and disappointment with gov.

Jubilee1.0 grew unprecedented 6%. Jubilee inherited 55B economy and as of 2017 it had grown to 90B - nearly doubling in 5yrs. Jubilee 1.0 build SGR in 3yrs. Moved electricity connection from 2.5M to 6M - has been described as fastest electrification in the world. Managed to double paved roads from 11K to 20,000kms.

And Kenyans rewarded Jubilee by increase it's vote tally from 50 to 55%!

And then came Jubilee 2.0. DISASTER.

Agenda 4 - score card is zero. NADA. KAPUT. Abandoned.
Huduma no - score card zero
SGR Phase 2A and 2B - should be now past Kisumu - score card - zero
BBI - going to be zero soon
Parliament -  Technically dissolved
Judiciary - 42 judges in abeyances and backlog rising.

The economy - the least said the better.

We are going to enter recession this year - at best grow by 1%
COVID is to blame for this - but already we were back to NARA 4%.

Ruto borrow&build legacy. Watch and learn how Raila does it in Jubilee 2... akin to early NARC days.

Offline hk

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2020, 01:24:16 PM »
Considering gov failure it more than welcome. Debt to GDP of 72% with nothing to show POST-SGR. This Jubilee 2.0 is huge disaster.

he government now plans to restructure most of these 127 loss-making corporations -- PRIVATIZE these 127 parastals.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business-news/article/2001395906/state-job-cuts-loom-in-yatani-deal-with-imf-for-more-cash
Jubilee 1.0 is responsible for the debt mess. Budget deficits of more than 4% is irresponsible, Kenya's 6%-8% its just plain insane.  Kenya current problem now is debt and expenditure. While privatizing parastatals is good the depth of kenya's problem wont be solved by privatization only.  Kenya budget doubled the first year of jubilee 1.0  fueled by local and external debt https://www.centralbank.go.ke/public-debt/.  By jubilee 2.0 the headroom to borrow was limited so the pace slowed. The idea that there's free money out there to nail down "hardware' i.e infrastructure is just economic and financial insanity.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2020, 01:44:56 PM »
But Jubilee gave us infrastructure that will outlast 10 generations. Now tell us what Jubilee 2.0 has done with borrowing. It better to borrow and invest in hardware. Than to borrow for budgetary support.

I prefer Jubilee 1.0 borrowing SGR - 5B.Than Eurobond 3B - another 2B - and then IMF_WB - 3B - that goes into Budget Support.

We need to ring-fenced borrowed money to  brick-mortar project - at least when future generations - are repaying - they can see it.

If you borrow money as individual - and buy a plot - become broke but RICH - that is OKAY. If you borrow the same money - to invest in a business that is not well thought out or to buy Mandazi with - that is terrible - because you'll become broke and poor.

Again Jubilee 2.0 if Ruto was on the driving seat WOULD NEVER HAVE STOPPED PUBLIC INVESTMENT. Yes borrowing can stop - but public investment must continue. You stop public investment - GDP tanks as now one engine - private investement is running - and other is dead - your GDP to debt worsen - everything goes BAD. You cannot stop that reggae of development...without serious consequences.

. It was the time to now sell these 127 loss making entities and use the money to invest in HARDWARE. It was also time to do SERIOUS PPP - like we did with Energy sector and are now doing with TOLL ROADS.

If GOV IN DEVELOPING WORLD is not investing in hardware - what exactly is it business. To just spin the wheels, pay recurrent expenditure and pay salaries?????????????????? That luxury is only available to DEVELOPED FIRST WORLD countries.

Gov in developing world has and must build infrastructure - it MUST DEVELOP the country - or go home.

And it can do that by 1) raising taxes - very hard considering most people are already too poor and informal

And 2) it can borrow - whenever possible from China/IMF/WB - concessional low interest long maturity loans - and avoid commercial loans - and borrow loans tied to projects. CHINESE loans are the best. They are low interest long maturing and tied to infrastructure delivered by Chinese - they have LIFTED AFRICA in a generation.

And 3) Sell some of it's non strategic assets to fund infrastructure. I am talking KPL, Safaricom, National Oil and many others which can get gov 10B dollars - and are of no strategic value - if gov was not a shareholder. KIBAKI DID THIS - and NOBODY talks about it.

And 4) - PPP - Private Sector Public Partnership - Road tools, Road Annuity, Energy PPAs - just make sure you get a good deal - by negotiating smartly while also encouraging investors to invest in public projects. About 10B dollars has been injected into electricity sector from private sector..Turkana Wind is nearly 1B dollars. Road annuity - Ruto got it off ground...it need to be oiled...banks should led money to private contractors..and gov should repay over a long period. Toll roads..god sent..Chinese using their own 0.7B dollars on Mombasa road. How many people in Nairobi would pay extra money to avoid traffic jams...millions..that is money investors can get..by providing roads..in gov land. The same with housing...that Uhuru doesn't quite get or has no balls to get it off ground. The pent up demand in Nairobi  for housing is staggering....and Chinese can deliver houses for 1M Kshs.

And this is where a leader like Ruto comes IN.

But if you stop development and then proceed to live within your poverty means :) - that is INSANITY.

Jubilee 1.0 is responsible for the debt mess. Budget deficits of more than 4% is irresponsible, Kenya's 6%-8% its just plain insane.  Kenya current problem now is debt and expenditure. While privatizing parastatals is good the depth of kenya's problem wont be solved by privatization only.  Kenya budget doubled the first year of jubilee 1.0  fueled by local and external debt https://www.centralbank.go.ke/public-debt/.  By jubilee 2.0 the headroom to borrow was limited so the pace slowed. The idea that there's free money out there to nail down "hardware' i.e infrastructure is just economic and financial insanity.

Offline Arcadian_Dreamer

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2020, 04:23:31 PM »
But Jubilee gave us infrastructure that will outlast 10 generations. Now tell us what Jubilee 2.0 has done with borrowing. It better to borrow and invest in hardware. Than to borrow for budgetary support.

I prefer Jubilee 1.0 borrowing SGR - 5B.Than Eurobond 3B - another 2B - and then IMF_WB - 3B - that goes into Budget Support.

We need to ring-fenced borrowed money to  brick-mortar project - at least when future generations - are repaying - they can see it.

If you borrow money as individual - and buy a plot - become broke but RICH - that is OKAY. If you borrow the same money - to invest in a business that is not well thought out or to buy Mandazi with - that is terrible - because you'll become broke and poor.

Again Jubilee 2.0 if Ruto was on the driving seat WOULD NEVER HAVE STOPPED PUBLIC INVESTMENT. Yes borrowing can stop - but public investment must continue. You stop public investment - GDP tanks as now one engine - private investement is running - and other is dead - your GDP to debt worsen - everything goes BAD. You cannot stop that reggae of development...without serious consequences.

. It was the time to now sell these 127 loss making entities and use the money to invest in HARDWARE. It was also time to do SERIOUS PPP - like we did with Energy sector and are now doing with TOLL ROADS.

If GOV IN DEVELOPING WORLD is not investing in hardware - what exactly is it business. To just spin the wheels, pay recurrent expenditure and pay salaries?????????????????? That luxury is only available to DEVELOPED FIRST WORLD countries.

Gov in developing world has and must build infrastructure - it MUST DEVELOP the country - or go home.

And it can do that by 1) raising taxes - very hard considering most people are already too poor and informal

And 2) it can borrow - whenever possible from China/IMF/WB - concessional low interest long maturity loans - and avoid commercial loans - and borrow loans tied to projects. CHINESE loans are the best. They are low interest long maturing and tied to infrastructure delivered by Chinese - they have LIFTED AFRICA in a generation.

And 3) Sell some of it's non strategic assets to fund infrastructure. I am talking KPL, Safaricom, National Oil and many others which can get gov 10B dollars - and are of no strategic value - if gov was not a shareholder. KIBAKI DID THIS - and NOBODY talks about it.

And 4) - PPP - Private Sector Public Partnership - Road tools, Road Annuity, Energy PPAs - just make sure you get a good deal - by negotiating smartly while also encouraging investors to invest in public projects. About 10B dollars has been injected into electricity sector from private sector..Turkana Wind is nearly 1B dollars. Road annuity - Ruto got it off ground...it need to be oiled...banks should led money to private contractors..and gov should repay over a long period. Toll roads..god sent..Chinese using their own 0.7B dollars on Mombasa road. How many people in Nairobi would pay extra money to avoid traffic jams...millions..that is money investors can get..by providing roads..in gov land. The same with housing...that Uhuru doesn't quite get or has no balls to get it off ground. The pent up demand in Nairobi  for housing is staggering....and Chinese can deliver houses for 1M Kshs.

And this is where a leader like Ruto comes IN.

But if you stop development and then proceed to live within your poverty means :) - that is INSANITY.

Do you argue for the sake of arguing? You have incontrovertible facts before you that clearly indicate that the direction we took under jubilee 1.0 was disastrous fiscally na bado unaendelea kuropoka kuropoka ovyo ovyo. Is it a pride thing with you? You can't admit your mistakes? Sigh!

Sleep is good, death is better; but of course, The best would be never to have been born at all.

Offline patel

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2020, 05:17:48 PM »
Precisely. Baghdad Bob was allover telling us kenya Debt/GDP ratio was better than Japan and USA. Rubber meets the road. Personally I have switched to dollar account.
Considering gov failure it more than welcome. Debt to GDP of 72% with nothing to show POST-SGR. This Jubilee 2.0 is huge disaster.

he government now plans to restructure most of these 127 loss-making corporations -- PRIVATIZE these 127 parastals.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business-news/article/2001395906/state-job-cuts-loom-in-yatani-deal-with-imf-for-more-cash
Jubilee 1.0 is responsible for the debt mess. Budget deficits of more than 4% is irresponsible, Kenya's 6%-8% its just plain insane.  Kenya current problem now is debt and expenditure. While privatizing parastatals is good the depth of kenya's problem wont be solved by privatization only.  Kenya budget doubled the first year of jubilee 1.0  fueled by local and external debt https://www.centralbank.go.ke/public-debt/.  By jubilee 2.0 the headroom to borrow was limited so the pace slowed. The idea that there's free money out there to nail down "hardware' i.e infrastructure is just economic and financial insanity.

Offline Kadudu

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2020, 05:25:00 PM »
Pundit will never admit that Jubilee 1.0 lay ground for the mess that is Kenya today. Two ruscals out to outwit another in grabbing and now people are crying, ati the economy has been wrecked. All signs were there in 2013 for all to see. Uhuru's and Ruto's personal riches have grown exactly to the same proportions the country's debts have grown.

Do you argue for the sake of arguing? You have incontrovertible facts before you that clearly indicate that the direction we took under jubilee 1.0 was disastrous fiscally na bado unaendelea kuropoka kuropoka ovyo ovyo. Is it a pride thing with you? You can't admit your mistakes? Sigh!

Offline patel

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2020, 05:25:51 PM »
Upuzi tuu...jubilee 1.0 was a disaster. Borrowed heavily to buy sofa set, top range gas stove, fono bed, 65" inch smart TV.....all that for mud grass thatched hut.
But Jubilee gave us infrastructure that will outlast 10 generations. Now tell us what Jubilee 2.0 has done with borrowing. It better to borrow and invest in hardware. Than to borrow for budgetary support.

I prefer Jubilee 1.0 borrowing SGR - 5B.Than Eurobond 3B - another 2B - and then IMF_WB - 3B - that goes into Budget Support.

We need to ring-fenced borrowed money to  brick-mortar project - at least when future generations - are repaying - they can see it.

If you borrow money as individual - and buy a plot - become broke but RICH - that is OKAY. If you borrow the same money - to invest in a business that is not well thought out or to buy Mandazi with - that is terrible - because you'll become broke and poor.

Again Jubilee 2.0 if Ruto was on the driving seat WOULD NEVER HAVE STOPPED PUBLIC INVESTMENT. Yes borrowing can stop - but public investment must continue. You stop public investment - GDP tanks as now one engine - private investement is running - and other is dead - your GDP to debt worsen - everything goes BAD. You cannot stop that reggae of development...without serious consequences.

. It was the time to now sell these 127 loss making entities and use the money to invest in HARDWARE. It was also time to do SERIOUS PPP - like we did with Energy sector and are now doing with TOLL ROADS.

If GOV IN DEVELOPING WORLD is not investing in hardware - what exactly is it business. To just spin the wheels, pay recurrent expenditure and pay salaries?????????????????? That luxury is only available to DEVELOPED FIRST WORLD countries.

Gov in developing world has and must build infrastructure - it MUST DEVELOP the country - or go home.

And it can do that by 1) raising taxes - very hard considering most people are already too poor and informal

And 2) it can borrow - whenever possible from China/IMF/WB - concessional low interest long maturity loans - and avoid commercial loans - and borrow loans tied to projects. CHINESE loans are the best. They are low interest long maturing and tied to infrastructure delivered by Chinese - they have LIFTED AFRICA in a generation.

And 3) Sell some of it's non strategic assets to fund infrastructure. I am talking KPL, Safaricom, National Oil and many others which can get gov 10B dollars - and are of no strategic value - if gov was not a shareholder. KIBAKI DID THIS - and NOBODY talks about it.

And 4) - PPP - Private Sector Public Partnership - Road tools, Road Annuity, Energy PPAs - just make sure you get a good deal - by negotiating smartly while also encouraging investors to invest in public projects. About 10B dollars has been injected into electricity sector from private sector..Turkana Wind is nearly 1B dollars. Road annuity - Ruto got it off ground...it need to be oiled...banks should led money to private contractors..and gov should repay over a long period. Toll roads..god sent..Chinese using their own 0.7B dollars on Mombasa road. How many people in Nairobi would pay extra money to avoid traffic jams...millions..that is money investors can get..by providing roads..in gov land. The same with housing...that Uhuru doesn't quite get or has no balls to get it off ground. The pent up demand in Nairobi  for housing is staggering....and Chinese can deliver houses for 1M Kshs.

And this is where a leader like Ruto comes IN.

But if you stop development and then proceed to live within your poverty means :) - that is INSANITY.

Do you argue for the sake of arguing? You have incontrovertible facts before you that clearly indicate that the direction we took under jubilee 1.0 was disastrous fiscally na bado unaendelea kuropoka kuropoka ovyo ovyo. Is it a pride thing with you? You can't admit your mistakes? Sigh!



Offline gout

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2020, 05:36:47 PM »
The cost on people will unravel properly from next year from March. Retrench even doctors about to retire probably with little pension; higher school fees; higher hospital bills; tolling existing say bypasses; KRA use of MPesa data to tax.
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one ~ Thomas Paine

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2020, 05:56:37 PM »
I have been consistent.

In  kibaki era - I and many including IMF complained about kenya lack of public investment. During Kibaki era we depended on private investment. That meant 4% economic growth.

We had seen what public investment had done to Ethiopia. Ethiopia has nearly zero tiny private sector. But it's public sector has grown the economy at 10% for nearly 30yrs - transforming a country that was bottom in every index - to somewhere it is now.

When Jubilee came - under the leadership of Ruto (Uhuru was mostly drunk) - we began to see public investment. We pulled biggest public investment in kenya modern history - SGR worth 5B dollars.

The economy grew by 6% for 5yrs. That is unprecedented. We turned 50B economy to 100B.

Now Uhuru in 2.0 did stupid thing. He  fired Ruto, took Raila, and stopped public investment, to manage debt, and now economy is regressing or stuck. Okay COVID is curve ball but still...it was already happening.

SGR was adding 1.5% to GDP during construction. Without it - you move back to 4%.

Now if economy is drunk with debt - you don't withdraw debt - it will get into withdrawl symptom shock - you find a way to continue the reggae. Economic reggae must never NEVER stop. Everyone need to get into 'irrational exuberance' gung-ho investing and dreaming big - but once the bad economic news start - it spread misery. If debt is a problem - find other means of getting money. But you have the Borana just dishing bad news after bad news...people are now holding onto investment...and waiting for even more bad news...and become a self-reinforcing bad news cycle.

Ruto will deliver 10% economic growth from next year. Just watch and see. Ethiopia did it. We can do it. You need public investment pumping in 5% and private sector pumping 5% annuall.

That is 10B dollars now. Gov annually need to invest 500B in building new roads, dams, housing, rails. Private sector the same. You can only do this when you are top of political, social and economic game...like Jubilee 1.0 tried.

Pundit will never admit that Jubilee 1.0 lay ground for the mess that is Kenya today. Two ruscals out to outwit another in grabbing and now people are crying, ati the economy has been wrecked. All signs were there in 2013 for all to see. Uhuru's and Ruto's personal riches have grown exactly to the same proportions the country's debts have grown.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2020, 01:04:03 PM »
 :) as usual noone agrees with the local genius.. low EQ like Mukhisa. Bure kabisa!
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2020, 01:37:56 PM »
This is not a popularity contest. The weight of your ideas count. The soundness of your arguments is all that matters here.
:) as usual noone agrees with the local genius.. low EQ like Mukhisa. Bure kabisa!

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2020, 01:41:06 PM »
Yatani withdraws COVID tax relief - back to16 VAT and 30 for income and corp taxes. But I believe he needs to ammend financial act or ?

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2020, 03:11:27 PM »
I am not naming names. wajishuku

This is not a popularity contest. The weight of your ideas count. The soundness of your arguments is all that matters here.
:) as usual noone agrees with the local genius.. low EQ like Mukhisa. Bure kabisa!
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2020, 03:14:39 PM »
The refuge of a scoundrel like you is an ad hominem. Focus on the issue. Idiot.

For example be helpful - explain to us - how kenya can grow by 10% per annum for 30yrs - which would transform it from lower middle income country to higher income country.

Reference - Ethiopia has done it. Rwanda is doing it. They have grown for 7-10% for a generation now.

You praise Kibaki - and yet this is what obtains.


I am not naming names. wajishuku

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2020, 03:25:59 PM »
Meanwhile Borana and Handshake have borrowed 11B dollars in last 10 MONTHS WITH NOTHING TO SHOW ON THE GROUND. The money has disappeared into recurrent expenditure. Uhuru will beat Moi and hand over a totally bankrupt country - there is another 30B dollars waiting to be borrowed - taking the total debt to 100B dollars when GDP will be 100B - we will see 1% growth the next 2yrs. Why Ruto is still defending the drunkard is beyond me.
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2020, 04:09:19 PM »
Uhuru start usual songs - about interference as - as kenya is now at mercy of IMF/WB/Donors
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2020-12-04-dont-meddle-in-our-affairs-uhuru-tells-foreign-donors/

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: IMF back in town - with usual painful reforms
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2020, 06:41:36 PM »