Pundit, Do you believe in deep state?

[Higgins the genius]

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I have been seeing alot of guys talking about Deep State and how they will not allow WSR anywhere near power. The masses are starting to believe that.

[Nefertiti]

Deep state, dark forces, Jezebel are aliases for PORK. Sometimes they say "people close to the president" or "people at OP". Any Matiang'i or Kibicho has the authority of Uhuru to carry out their mischief. Tangatanga and Ruto cannot finger Uhuru thus the aliases.

[RV Pundit]

There is nothing like deep state. As always they are powerful people because of their position of influence and power. Their power is transient. Traditionally the most powerful has been Head of Public Service/Cabinet Sec (Kinyua has a mzungu-mien and has never been one to profit from public service so he is an exception) and then you have PS of Internal Security (None bigger than Kalam Madoung Oyugi - likes of Zakayo (now a sorry image of himself) and I guess Kibicho -Matiangi now. And as always State House gatekeepers (comptroller). Definitely NIS/Police/DPP/Judiciary have their power. Speaker of parliament and parliament majorities have their power. Otherwise, if you're talking business-men - then Kenya business are linked to patronage - you get out of power or gov - you business go down. See Kibaki era men now all crying in toilet - starting from Michuki, Trancenturies, Cables, name them

DEEP STATE=PORK= UHURU - and whoever can influence or have his ear.

Deep state maybe true in places like US - where institutions have long history of independence and power - like CIA don't listen to the president - or the Jewish coalition.

I have been seeing alot of guys talking about Deep State and how they will not allow WSR anywhere near power. The masses are starting to believe that.

[RV Pundit]

Precisely. You read my mind.

Deep state, dark forces, Jezebel are aliases for PORK. Sometimes they say "people close to the president" or "people at OP". Any Matiang'i or Kibicho has the authority of Uhuru to carry out their mischief. Tangatanga and Ruto cannot finger Uhuru thus the aliases.

[Kadudu]

In 2023 they will be joined by Britam, Centum etc. and new players will join the gravy train.

There is nothing like deep state. As always they are powerful people because of their position of influence and power. Their power is transient. Traditionally the most powerful has been Head of Public Service/Cabinet Sec (Kinyua has a mzungu-mien and has never been one to profit from public service so he is an exception) and then you have PS of Internal Security (None bigger than Kalam Madoung Oyugi - likes of Zakayo (now a sorry image of himself) and I guess Kibicho -Matiangi now. And as always State House gatekeepers (comptroller). Definitely NIS/Police/DPP/Judiciary have their power. Speaker of parliament and parliament majorities have their power. Otherwise, if you're talking business-men - then Kenya business are linked to patronage - you get out of power or gov - you business go down. See Kibaki era men now all crying in toilet - starting from Michuki, Trancenturies, Cables, name them

DEEP STATE=PORK= UHURU - and whoever can influence or have his ear.

Deep state maybe true in places like US - where institutions have long history of independence and power - like CIA don't listen to the president - or the Jewish coalition.

[RV Pundit]

The dying Kirubi knows how to survive in every gov. He was pro-Moi. Bowed down to Kibaki. Prostrated before Uhuru And will do anything to get into next gov. Otherwise likes of Kibaki Transcentury went down as soon as Kibaki went - because East Africa cables basically depend on Kenya Power (now Doshi).

The true business in Kenya are run by Wahindis who have mastered the supply chain with a network of fellow wahindis...they mostly depend on SME..not one big gov or parastatal contract.

In 2023 they will be joined by Britam, Centum etc. and new players will join the gravy train.

[Kadudu]

I still marvel at people who claim John Michuki was an effective administrator. John Michuki's businesses are in tumbles as the once renowned Windsor Resort cannot even pay its bills. People forget Windsor was before 2002 in a sorry state and only recovered with Michuki entering the cabinet. he made his loot through making roadside procalmations like seatbelts for PSVs and his business partners had already containers full of seatbelts at the port of Mombasa. Windsor like Weston Hotel today lived on goverment seminars being conducted at its vicinity. With Michuki gone, those are now out.

[Garliv]

Yes. And no. In Kenya it can mean President. In the US/UK/Germany  and others they are entrenched interests between businesses, people in government especially intelligence and military and also importantly in the media who fashion and pursue their own interests.
Eg. Trump can keep ordering troops out of Syria or wherever but Deep State always finds way to undermine that. Or the whole of congress enact laws to benefit big businesses or Israel.

Uhuru took power when deeps tate was aligned with him. Him being Kenyatta and all. Moi initially took power with Kenyatta deep state intact until he had to learn lesson and install his own.

So yes. Deep state exist. That's why interests of big businesses and certain individuals never changes despite change of leadership through elections.

Deep state, dark forces, Jezebel are aliases for PORK. Sometimes they say "people close to the president" or "people at OP". Any Matiang'i or Kibicho has the authority of Uhuru to carry out their mischief. Tangatanga and Ruto cannot finger Uhuru thus the aliases.

[Nefertiti]

Consumer business is also good. People said Safaricom and Equity would die with Kibaki but they continue to excel. But I expect CBA to shrink - it snagged Safaricom pie from Equity and is overlooked by CBK for predatory mobile lending.

The dying Kirubi knows how to survive in every gov. He was pro-Moi. Bowed down to Kibaki. Prostrated before Uhuru And will do anything to get into next gov. Otherwise likes of Kibaki Transcentury went down as soon as Kibaki went - because East Africa cables basically depend on Kenya Power (now Doshi).

The true business in Kenya are run by Wahindis who have mastered the supply chain with a network of fellow wahindis...they mostly depend on SME..not one big gov or parastatal contract.

[RV Pundit]

Kenya deep state is shallow. You're talking for example a shy recent mechanical engineering lecturer like Kibicho being "deep state". Or someone like Matiangi who was poor English lecturer 6yrs ago and had been fired by Magoha - and was hustling for jobs . Or Munya - the guy was recently a law lecturer at Moi university . Or Muga the old man who made money recently or maybe Jimmy Wanjigi. There is nothing deep state in kenya.We have political & business players aligned along tribes. Muthoka or Muthama financing Ukambani politics. You have the Kuleis & Langatas & Mois financing in RV. You have famous Mombasa Asian tycoons doing their thing. You have many in central kenya.Maybe Kenyatta and Moi family have such tentacles they could nearly become deep state.Otherwise institutions like Judiciary, NIS, Police - in kenya - are far from building institutional capacity - to influence things.

At end of the day - what matters in kenya politics is 1) TRIBE 2) MONEY 3) Power Levers.

In not the US of A where CIA or FBI can indict their own president for collaborating with Russian. We are some 100yrs to get there.

Yes. And no. In Kenya it can mean President. In the US/UK/Germany  and others they are entrenched interests between businesses, people in government especially intelligence and military and also importantly in the media who fashion and pursue their own interests.
Eg. Trump can keep ordering troops out of Syria or wherever but Deep State always finds way to undermine that. Or the whole of congress enact laws to benefit big businesses or Israel.

Uhuru took power when deeps tate was aligned with him. Him being Kenyatta and all. Moi initially took power with Kenyatta deep state intact until he had to learn lesson and install his own.

So yes. Deep state exist. That's why interests of big businesses and certain individuals never changes despite change of leadership through elections.

Deep state, dark forces, Jezebel are aliases for PORK. Sometimes they say "people close to the president" or "people at OP". Any Matiang'i or Kibicho has the authority of Uhuru to carry out their mischief. Tangatanga and Ruto cannot finger Uhuru thus the aliases.

[Nefertiti]

Yep. Generally the more established the state institutions the more their traditions and precedents become "deep state" of status quos. So the west will have deep state aka institutionalism in contrast to the big man culture in the 3rd world or Russia.

Kenya deep state start and end with the security apparatus and the civil service bureaucracy. In a few years PORK remodels it into his image - which is his cronies, class, tribe and family.

Kenya deep state is shallow. You're talking for example a shy recent mechanical engineering lecturer like Kibicho being "deep state". Or someone like Matiangi who was poor English lecturer 6yrs ago and had been fired by Magoha - and was hustling for jobs . Or Munya - the guy was recently a law lecturer at Moi university . Or Muga the old man who made money recently or maybe Jimmy Wanjigi. There is nothing deep state in kenya.We have political & business players aligned along tribes. Muthoka or Muthama financing Ukambani politics. You have the Kuleis & Langatas & Mois financing in RV. You have famous Mombasa Asian tycoons doing their thing. You have many in central kenya.Maybe Kenyatta and Moi family have such tentacles they could nearly become deep state.Otherwise institutions like Judiciary, NIS, Police - in kenya - are far from building institutional capacity - to influence things.

At end of the day - what matters in kenya politics is 1) TRIBE 2) MONEY 3) Power Levers.

In not the US of A where CIA or FBI can indict their own president for collaborating with Russian. We are some 100yrs to get there.

[GeeMail]

Pundit and Robina are right. Deep state does not exist in Kenya. Such a concept is too deep for a poor floundering African nation. But deep state exists yet. Who and how did Raila and Uhuru do the handshake? How did Raila and Kibaki form the GNU the ugly animal? The deep state is what Uhuru and Raila are doing now, marketing BBI to America where not a single voter who matters will give them audience. Who is their audience or who is puppeteering them? The international deep state. It is this deep state that looked aside as Raila was robbed of his victory in 2007 and again in 2013, 2017. It endorsed Kibaki's election thievering and swearing in at night. This deep state overlooked crucial evidence and allowed Chapter 6 to go down in 2013. It oversees corruption in broad daylight while lecturing African nations conducting and sponsoring anti-corruption seminars. Look where the deep state wind is blowing and see where it leaves Ruto.

[RV Pundit]

Where was the deep state when UhuRuto won while indicted by the ICC.No less than Obama intervened.Kenya politics is easy.Tribe is the deepest state because Kenya is not really a state but a nation of tribes.It will take many years before Kenya become a real nation-state when tribes dies maybe in 200-500yrs from now.

[Higgins the genius]

 https://www.the-star.co.ke/siasa/2020-02-09-deep-state-doesnt-want-ruto-as-president

[Nefertiti]

Pundit thinks it is only Raila and Robina who don't want Ruto to be president.

Make Believe is a movie. Ruto’s push to become President in 2022 is a movie.

https://www.the-star.co.ke/siasa/2020-02-09-deep-state-doesnt-want-ruto-as-president

[RV Pundit]

US (actually UK) influence on Kenya died the day Kenya became economically independent. Kenya budget is 99% funded by Kenyans. Obama huff n buffed about consequences..and in the end he had to made a deal with Kenya. Kenya is not longer a British Vassal state. Nobody even knows who is the current ambassador of US or UK.

Kenya's deep state of located around KICC in Nairobi. The Office of the Presidency including Interior Ministry, The Finance Ministry, The Parliament, The Judiciary  - all of them are around 100 meters from KICC.

Pundit and Robina are right. Deep state does not exist in Kenya. Such a concept is too deep for a poor floundering African nation. But deep state exists yet. Who and how did Raila and Uhuru do the handshake? How did Raila and Kibaki form the GNU the ugly animal? The deep state is what Uhuru and Raila are doing now, marketing BBI to America where not a single voter who matters will give them audience. Who is their audience or who is puppeteering them? The international deep state. It is this deep state that looked aside as Raila was robbed of his victory in 2007 and again in 2013, 2017. It endorsed Kibaki's election thievering and swearing in at night. This deep state overlooked crucial evidence and allowed Chapter 6 to go down in 2013. It oversees corruption in broad daylight while lecturing African nations conducting and sponsoring anti-corruption seminars. Look where the deep state wind is blowing and see where it leaves Ruto.