BBI will go limp..poor Robina been waiting for hardon

[Nefertiti]

We only cheer the abuse of power because half impunity is better than full impunity. Provided no innocent person is incarcerated or fired - i don't care about bereaved thieves. In any case that just affirms my point about checks and balances without accountability. PORK can ignore the checks and balances - such as court rulings or MP motions - using intimidation, harassment and force.

[RV Pundit]

And in your phd (permanent head damage) your think parliament is the solution . The solution is for Raila as opposition leader to do his job of keeping gov in check like democrats are trying in the US. Not to co-habit with government rendering kenya a dejure one party state. The solution is for judiciary to say boycott courts until court decision are respected. The solution is for parliament as it is - to keep gov in toes. The solution is for independent institution to guard their independence.

If we have parliamentary system - the losing party - join up with rulling party - to feed on gov coffers - it will be back to square one.

Parliamentary system is just quarrelsome and unstable form of democracy that works well in countries with kingdoms.

The are no laws or constitution that can be check-proof  - sort of a silver bullet - it's the people - and institution - who have to do this job - of making their gov accountable and transparent.

DPP and police - law enforcement - are only independent in theory. We can see objectively how DPP and DCI selectively pursue graft cases. Double standard in policing - Ngunjiri Wambugu vs Ndindi Nyoro.

DCJ Mwilu driver was shot dead. After that only Maraga showed up for the run-off case. Orengo quipped that the state works mysteriously. I see now people here blaming Jomo potrait case on intimidation.

Miguna case - ultimately PORK can ignore the courts in any stand-off. With no consequences.

In short no accountability. Checks and balances are not effective without accountability. If you pass law, Uhuru edit it and you need 2/3 to overrule him. In fact following the moronic Muturi ruling about PORK power of editing bills before return to sender - PORK can pass a law with a 34% minority. In parliamentary of course, such power to assent laws is held by ceremonial head of state.

You're exaggerating. Uhuru has no such powers.  DPP is supposed to be independent and so are the police. Even now all Kibicho boys can do is take you and you're out the following day.Our presidential system if implemented as designed has enough checks and balances...and PORK is very restrained. He cannot appoint without parliamentary approval. They are 11 independent commissions - parliament has a clear legislative role. What basically need to happen is for minister to be ex-officio members of parliament if you need them questioned. Judiciary is suppose to be independent but you're the idiot who cheers them when they abuse power...like making a governor suspended.

Basically the way presidential system works - all arms of gov are suppose to check themselves. US is an example of a thriving democracy we need to follow. Not the dead dead dead Europe with kingdoms lasting centuries. You want us to elect a King and the a PM. What kind of nonsense is that.

These countries including Japan are only parliamentary because they have kingdoms.

[Georgesoros]

This is not about who wins or loses but rather a smaller efficient government. Do it now or face a Greece meltdown in 20yrs.

[Nefertiti]

Defection and any of those maladies you name are not restricted to the structure. Parliamentary of course lend itself well to a vibrant opposition. In a place like UK - you see Boris is PM and Corbyn is clear leader of opposition. In US noone remember Hillary or Romney. So Boris is always ansering tough questions about policy or scandal - Trump and Uhuru never face any censure. It is called presidential because the PRESIDENT has all the powers as head of state, govt and the shebang. Parliamentary is accountable because it seperate those two - state and govt.

Of course the real reason you support imperial system is Ruto the Messiah. What a moron.

And in your phd (permanent head damage) your think parliament is the solution . The solution is for Raila as opposition leader to do his job of keeping gov in check like democrats are trying in the US. Not to co-habit with government rendering kenya a dejure one party state. The solution is for judiciary to say boycott courts until court decision are respected. The solution is for parliament as it is - to keep gov in toes. The solution is for independent institution to guard their independence.

If we have parliamentary system - the losing party - join up with rulling party - to feed on gov coffers - it will be back to square one.

Parliamentary system is just quarrelsome and unstable form of democracy that works well in countries with kingdoms.

The are no laws or constitution that can be check-proof  - sort of a silver bullet - it's the people - and institution - who have to do this job - of making their gov accountable and transparent.

[RV Pundit]

We have no nation. We have a state. It will take us 500yrs in my view to evolve into a nation - and we can talk about separating states and nation. What we have is a tribal nation - I belong to Kalenjin nation - and Kenya state. And what will work for kenya is US FEDERALISM with presidential system or German Style Devolution with parliamentary system.  I have two major problems with your proposed parliamentary system - a ceremonial president elected with powerful pork - in a tribal nation like us - will lead to instability - that will crush the economy.

As for Ruto - Ruto will win whatever the system. The winner in the contest is the best politician. Ruto will go for biggest post - if we had parliamentary system - on account of controlling majority - he would be the PM. In fact in 2022 - Ruto will definitely control most of parliament - and will pick the PM if he doesn't go for it.

Obviously Ruto wants it all - so you have to work hard to amend the katiba.

Defection and any of those maladies you name are not restricted to the structure. Parliamentary of course lend itself well to a vibrant opposition. In a place like UK - you see Boris is PM and Corbyn is clear leader of opposition. In US noone remember Hillary or Romney. So Boris is always ansering tough questions about policy or scandal - Trump and Uhuru never face any censure. It is called presidential because the PRESIDENT has all the powers as head of state, govt and the shebang. Parliamentary is accountable because it seperate those two - state and govt.

Of course the real reason you support imperial system is Ruto the Messiah. What a moron.

And in your phd (permanent head damage) your think parliament is the solution . The solution is for Raila as opposition leader to do his job of keeping gov in check like democrats are trying in the US. Not to co-habit with government rendering kenya a dejure one party state. The solution is for judiciary to say boycott courts until court decision are respected. The solution is for parliament as it is - to keep gov in toes. The solution is for independent institution to guard their independence.

If we have parliamentary system - the losing party - join up with rulling party - to feed on gov coffers - it will be back to square one.

Parliamentary system is just quarrelsome and unstable form of democracy that works well in countries with kingdoms.

The are no laws or constitution that can be check-proof  - sort of a silver bullet - it's the people - and institution - who have to do this job - of making their gov accountable and transparent.

[Dear Mami]

We have no nation. We have a state. It will take us 500yrs in my view to evolve into a nation - and we can talk about separating states and nation. What we have is a tribal nation - I belong to Kalenjin nation - and Kenya state.

We have a nation, even if it has been set back some. 'Kenyan' is an identity Kenyans would recognize by various idiosyncrasies.  It just takes one good leader to make a nation by putting the right foundations. If Kibaki had behaved differently in his first term, right now we would be much further along. Leaders are the forgers and destroyers of nations. We've just been unlucky. In fact, we were much more a nation under Moi than after, despite his huge faults; but we can get there even now.

[RV Pundit]

We will have a nation when Gusii nation dies alongside Kalenjin nation. Right now most kenyans feel close to there tribal nations than to Kenya. It why our politics is dysfunctional. Whatever the system - you expect tribalism to rears its ugly head - but countries like in Europe have over centuries evolve a national identity - and identity politics have long ceased - and given way to issue-based politics.

What we have is a state of Kenya.

In political science, a "nation" refers to a group of people who feel bound into a single body by shared culture, values, folkways, religion and/or language. A "state" just refers to a patch of land with a sovereign government.

We have a nation, even if it has been set back some. 'Kenyan' is an identity Kenyans would recognize by various idiosyncrasies.  It just takes one good leader to make a nation by putting the right foundations. If Kibaki had behaved differently in his first term, right now we would be much further along. Leaders are the forgers and destroyers of nations. We've just been unlucky. In fact, we were much more a nation under Moi than after, despite his huge faults; but we can get there even now.

[Dear Mami]

We will have a nation when Gusii nation dies alongside Kalenjin nation. Right now most kenyans feel close to there tribal nations than to Kenya. It why our politics is dysfunctional. Whatever the system - you expect tribalism to rears its ugly head - but countries like in Europe have over centuries evolve a national identity - and identity politics have long ceased - and given way to issue-based politics.

What we have is a state of Kenya.

In political science, a "nation" refers to a group of people who feel bound into a single body by shared culture, values, folkways, religion and/or language. A "state" just refers to a patch of land with a sovereign government.

We have a nation, even if it has been set back some. 'Kenyan' is an identity Kenyans would recognize by various idiosyncrasies.  It just takes one good leader to make a nation by putting the right foundations. If Kibaki had behaved differently in his first term, right now we would be much further along. Leaders are the forgers and destroyers of nations. We've just been unlucky. In fact, we were much more a nation under Moi than after, despite his huge faults; but we can get there even now.

I appreciate the distinction, but I really do mean we are a nation, even if it's the yolk stage. Maybe I feel that way because I'm diasporan, but there's something like a 'Kenyanness' that makes us a thing huku nje: our language, our food, our common history under bazungu, even our politics has its own bizarre thing about it. It would take the right leadership to lead this to the next stage. Leaders can always find a way to divide the most compact group you can imagine: via clan divides, bloodlines, neighbourhood etc. That potential doesn't mean the other identities disappear. I think the last two decades have done great harm to the sense of nationhood there was but it's not irredeemable.

[RV Pundit]

Part of that is your urban bringing.By default you're less tribal than someone like me who was brought up in rural kenya almost exclusively amongst Kalenjin. Obviously you still have roots in Gusii but you kids will have less and less roots - and eventually a true Kenyan identity will emerge - from your grandkids. But for majority of kenyans - we talking another 200yrs - before everywhere is urbanized and we are intermingling & inter-marrying with abandon.

I appreciate the distinction, but I really do mean we are a nation, even if it's the yolk stage. Maybe I feel that way because I'm diasporan, but there's something like a 'Kenyanness' that makes us a thing huku nje: our language, our food, our common history under bazungu, even our politics has its own bizarre thing about it. It would take the right leadership to lead this to the next stage. Leaders can always find a way to divide the most compact group you can imagine: via clan divides, bloodlines, neighbourhood etc. That potential doesn't mean the other identities disappear. I think the last two decades have done great harm to the sense of nationhood there was but it's not irredeemable.

[Nefertiti]

You are almost there. We need parliamentary system precisely because we are a state of tribes. And we have alot of impunity from the ethereal presidency. More devolution is good too. 40-60 is the revenue share in most devolved countries. No need to elect ceremonial president of course. Many countries like Israel or Germany have a formula. In Malaysia it rotational.

Ruto is nearing Babu 2007 - he is the enemy of the state after fallout with the boss. Am no cynic but according to Kichwa even if he was leading he would be rigged out. Personally i think BBI is enough to neuralize him. But i care more about the system than the winner.

We have no nation. We have a state. It will take us 500yrs in my view to evolve into a nation - and we can talk about separating states and nation. What we have is a tribal nation - I belong to Kalenjin nation - and Kenya state. And what will work for kenya is US FEDERALISM with presidential system or German Style Devolution with parliamentary system.  I have two major problems with your proposed parliamentary system - a ceremonial president elected with powerful pork - in a tribal nation like us - will lead to instability - that will crush the economy.

As for Ruto - Ruto will win whatever the system. The winner in the contest is the best politician. Ruto will go for biggest post - if we had parliamentary system - on account of controlling majority - he would be the PM. In fact in 2022 - Ruto will definitely control most of parliament - and will pick the PM if he doesn't go for it.

Obviously Ruto wants it all - so you have to work hard to amend the katiba.