Author Topic: Interesting Case: Culture and Judiciary  (Read 3481 times)

Offline Omollo

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Interesting Case: Culture and Judiciary
« on: June 15, 2015, 06:41:13 PM »
I think this is a case of a cultural clash. This lady is learning the hard way that justice in Kenya is never open and shut!

http://www.nation.co.ke/lifestyle/DN2/more-painful-than-a-lover-betrayal/-/957860/2752576/-/oji1u2z/-/index.html
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Interesting Case: Culture and Judiciary
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2015, 11:28:45 PM »
The idea of "justice" in Kenya is an interesting one.    And if you are overseas, then the view is that there is a live one to be plucked.    Even if you are in Kenya, I don't know how the "small" person ever manages to get justice.

I have been involved in a land case that's been going on for almost 5 years now, with absolutely nothing happening---if you exclude my spending money.  I have concluded that lawyers, court staff, LSK staff, judges ... are all in on the eating.   (Fortunately, I never spent serious money travelling just for the case. I had a local relative doing that shuttle.)

I will "write it up" at some point because it is a near-incredible circus that might enlighten the public.   

Oh, here's why I thought mine was an open-and-shut case: Somebody used a forged "power of attorney" to steal my father's land, and said documents were presented in court as "proof" of proper process.    Now, at the time my father supposedly signed all this: (a) he had been unable to write for years, because of the effects of a stroke; (b) he was in hospital, several hundreds of miles away; (c) his doctor and carers signed a whole bunch of documents to that effect (and have always been prepared to appear it court).  But getting that "day in court"!

My advice on long-distance legal skirmishes: It might initially look expensive, but go top-notch.  Get a serious and still-sober SC type. In the long run, you will save time and money.  That is my view as I "start afresh".
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Interesting Case: Culture and Judiciary
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2015, 07:01:02 AM »
Most folks avoid courts for that reason. Mutunga seem to have done nothing to change the system.

Offline Omollo

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Re: Interesting Case: Culture and Judiciary
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2015, 01:45:06 PM »
I discovered you can do virtually anything you want using the courts. You can steal land, can con a bank and get away with it, can inherit a person you never met and can harass your enemies.

The CJ stopped interim letters of administration. They are still being issued and used.

I can grab your land Pundit and this is how:

I proceed to the lands office and have the green card amended to read my name. All relevant documents be changed. It is easier if you have not taken the title deed. But if you have, I just use the police to get it back. An illegal search of your home while you are away at work will get me what I want. I would destroy any evidence of you owning the land.

However if that fails, I will have your documents declared fake and you may face charges. I will wait for you to go to court then buy the handwriting and documents expert to say your documents are fake.

End of the story.

That is why witchdoctors are doing roaring business.

Once at the High court to witness in a land case, I had somebody following me from the parking pouring some ash in my wake. I usually have somebody to look after my life discreetly out of view, so he took care of it. The judge never turned up.

On my next visit somebody suddenly dropped some file in front of me. I was rushing to retrieve it and hand it back when some woman grabbed me and said "don't". Utapata shida, ni uchawi. Sure as hell nobody else was bothered. I sat the court for hours and on my way out the file was still on the ground. Needless to say the case was moved to two different court rooms before settling in the third where the judge said he had "stood over" the matter!

They have developed some unique vocabulary and lingua that you have to learn.

On the day I testified, I came face to face with what I detest most - mediocrity. The judge had to write every word I said. And he was slow! He spoke Miguna Miguna english - the type that lacks that proverbial "smoothness". I don't mean one speaks with an accent or even without mistakes. His language betrayed a guy who does not read and has never read since he graduated. Besides he was drunk or still suffering the effects.

I have to confess once he learned who I was, he was very friendly and rushed to complete the matter. I was truthful to the letter and refused to be used to lie for either side.

I later learned that the only reason the case was heard is because the court clerk bribed to cause indefinite adjournments had not been at work for a week, leaving "his" files with other clerks who demanded more money which our person had failed to pay.
Most folks avoid courts for that reason. Mutunga seem to have done nothing to change the system.
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Interesting Case: Culture and Judiciary
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2015, 04:47:29 PM »
Omollo that is more like it. The nearest I have seen corruption in court...has been twice..for my sister-in-law when she had to bribe the clerk with 35k for her case to be dropped (pharmacy & poison board violations) and my small bro (one charge to be dropped  for selling alcohol beyond the legal time) only be left with drunk and disorderly. The prosecutor or the court clerk were responsible for that. The sister-in-law's prosecutor was a kalenjin who called me...to wire the money.

It a race..the cop can take a bribe or arrest you (for more or less charges)...the OCS at police stations takes the bribe or take you to court..the prosecutor takes a bribe or arraign you in court..then court clerk takes a bribe or expeditiate your file..the magistrate or judge takes a bribe or does his job...lawyers are constant brokers who will eat your money kabisa kabisa...working with court clerk and judges.

For most kenyans it best to bribe as early as possible to reduce the amount and the pain.

If you can...avoid lawyers..chance are by the time your "win"...the lawyer fees will not be enough :) even if your sold the land.

Only use lawyers to write threat letters..if that doesn't work..try bribing the cops to enforce whatever order. No need to take someone to court who willfully grab your land. Your simply pay cops or thugs to beat the hell out of him or her..if you can't do it yourself.

Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Interesting Case: Culture and Judiciary
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2015, 06:03:57 PM »
Wow!!! Why not have a computer assign cases. Everyone knows that its happening but looks the other way. Clerks are that important in the Kenyan court system?

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Interesting Case: Culture and Judiciary
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2015, 06:08:36 PM »
That was suppose to happen. That is why I supported Shollei given her IT background. We need more systems. JAB or Joint Admission became fair when computer started awarding course. Now even high school slot are awarded by computers. Of course some misguided parents and kids still get it wrong and blame the ministry.

The way forward esp in place like Africa where matters integrity are lacking (for many reason including mainly poverty); you are better off trusting systems; non-human systems.

Wow!!! Why not have a computer assign cases. Everyone knows that its happening but looks the other way. Clerks are that important in the Kenyan court system?

Offline Omollo

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Re: Interesting Case: Culture and Judiciary
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2015, 07:59:19 PM »
I would love to see somebody ask Mutunga that question. Why has he found it necessary to continue with the age old opaque system?

Ideally the calendars of all the judges should be known since it is the same computer that will assign them cases. So why have Mutunga reading the calender with his pen amid calls from wherever to keep Mumbi Ngugi off the case!

That was suppose to happen. That is why I supported Shollei given her IT background. We need more systems. JAB or Joint Admission became fair when computer started awarding course. Now even high school slot are awarded by computers. Of course some misguided parents and kids still get it wrong and blame the ministry.

The way forward esp in place like Africa where matters integrity are lacking (for many reason including mainly poverty); you are better off trusting systems; non-human systems.

Wow!!! Why not have a computer assign cases. Everyone knows that its happening but looks the other way. Clerks are that important in the Kenyan court system?
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread