Author Topic: Ethiopia broke  (Read 3249 times)

Offline RV Pundit

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Ethiopia broke
« on: September 27, 2021, 09:34:01 PM »
https://nation.africa/kenya/news/africa/ethiopia-to-close-embassies-in-egypt-ireland-over-financial-strain-3565066

Offline Arcadian_Dreamer

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2021, 09:47:50 PM »
Are you going to walk back your assertions about their state led being a model for Kenya?  :D

They were clearly going down before the war.

In fact one the reasons the TPLF relinquished power was the economy. Situation was FUBAR.

They handed Abiy a bomb.

Even China is going down, Evergrande was in the news lately - saddled with huge debts.

Microcosm of the country at large, in debt up to their eyeballs.

Moral of the story: Don't borrow ovyo ovyo to build infrastructure, economy is organic thing you can't artificially juice it up.









Sleep is good, death is better; but of course, The best would be never to have been born at all.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2021, 10:01:30 PM »
The usual nonsense - debt LEVERAGING - even from basic meaning of the word - is the only way to leapfrog.

By the time Meles took over in 1990s - Ethiopia was bottom of the bottom of the bottom of any ranking.

Ethiopia then grew 10 percent annually to become what it was - by time he handed over power - after 30yrs.

Double digit growth for nearly three decades - and it's not only infrastructure - ALL INDICATORS including social indicators dramatically improved.

China of course is human miracle if you will - never before has world since a country of such scale climb out of poverty in such short time.

Africa engagment with China the last 20yrs - has for first time given Africa real hope.

Countries that have DEVELOPED like Germany, Japan, Switzerland and the Nordics DO NOT NEED TO BORROW; even banks in developed world have a problem finding people to borrow money; Outside the US of A;

Dont apply developed model on developing world.

Are you going to walk back your assertions about their state led being a model for Kenya?  :D

They were clearly going down before the war.

In fact one the reasons the TPLF relinquished power was the economy. Situation was FUBAR.

They handed Abiy a bomb.

Even China is going down, Evergrande was in the news lately - saddled with huge debts.

Microcosm of the country at large, in debt up to their eyeballs.

Moral of the story: Don't borrow ovyo ovyo to build infrastructure, economy is organic thing you can't artificially juice it up.











Offline RV Pundit

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Offline vooke

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2021, 07:08:48 AM »
The shiny toys they have at Addis were just pulling wool over our face. I have always said the perfect metric for success is refugee flow. Any country spewing copious amounts of refugees is shiet and the one receiving them is better. No matter the bogus Ethiopia rising narrative I knew Ethiopia was all show

No African nation has gotten anywhere on debt binge. The ones standing are just corpses slowly rotting away.
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2021, 07:43:05 AM »
It got nothing with debt - it has everything with Nobel dude starting war with Tigrays - and losing. Meles grew the economy for nearly 30yrs...at double digit. If his model was wrong....please let us have it...30yrs growth model..is awesome.
The shiny toys they have at Addis were just pulling wool over our face. I have always said the perfect metric for success is refugee flow. Any country spewing copious amounts of refugees is shiet and the one receiving them is better. No matter the bogus Ethiopia rising narrative I knew Ethiopia was all show

No African nation has gotten anywhere on debt binge. The ones standing are just corpses slowly rotting away.

Offline vooke

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2021, 09:35:23 AM »
It was a basket BEFORE the war

The 'growth' was fake or superficial just like Kenya's

Government spending seldom trickles down to anyone other than cronies at the top.

Ndii saw it years ago
https://www.theelephant.info/op-eds/2018/06/23/a-question-of-power-why-ethiopias-economic-transformation-is-a-cautionary-african-tale/

It got nothing with debt - it has everything with Nobel dude starting war with Tigrays - and losing. Meles grew the economy for nearly 30yrs...at double digit. If his model was wrong....please let us have it...30yrs growth model..is awesome.
The shiny toys they have at Addis were just pulling wool over our face. I have always said the perfect metric for success is refugee flow. Any country spewing copious amounts of refugees is shiet and the one receiving them is better. No matter the bogus Ethiopia rising narrative I knew Ethiopia was all show

No African nation has gotten anywhere on debt binge. The ones standing are just corpses slowly rotting away.
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2021, 10:48:41 AM »
Academic. War is one we know has made it broke now.
It was a basket BEFORE the war

The 'growth' was fake or superficial just like Kenya's

Government spending seldom trickles down to anyone other than cronies at the top.

Ndii saw it years ago
https://www.theelephant.info/op-eds/2018/06/23/a-question-of-power-why-ethiopias-economic-transformation-is-a-cautionary-african-tale/

Offline vooke

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2021, 02:07:02 PM »
Facts are "academic"?

Ethiopia has excess power with no customers apart from the very Egyptians opposed to the dam

They have been struggling with Forex which in turn has spooked investors

You can bet when Kenya collapses you'll b blaming the tooth fairy

Academic. War is one we know has made it broke now.
It was a basket BEFORE the war

The 'growth' was fake or superficial just like Kenya's

Government spending seldom trickles down to anyone other than cronies at the top.

Ndii saw it years ago
https://www.theelephant.info/op-eds/2018/06/23/a-question-of-power-why-ethiopias-economic-transformation-is-a-cautionary-african-tale/
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Arcadian_Dreamer

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2021, 04:14:45 PM »
Pundit the debt junkie is very stubborn when it comes to facts.

Ethiopia was sunk by debts, Kenya is being sunk by debts.

Get that through your skull.

Sleep is good, death is better; but of course, The best would be never to have been born at all.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2021, 04:58:41 PM »
Debt became only an issue when Ethiopia civil war started with death of Meles Zenawi. First it was Oromos. Now it's Tigrays.

If after 30yrs of Meles - debt was not an issue - how can it become an issue now.

Kenya if it goes to civil war next year - will default faster than Ethiopia.

If it doesnt and negotiate a smooth transition - it will neve default.

So see where the problem lies.

Pundit the debt junkie is very stubborn when it comes to facts.

Ethiopia was sunk by debts, Kenya is being sunk by debts.

Get that through your skull.



Offline vooke

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2021, 07:20:24 PM »

From $2B in 2008 to 28B in 2019

That's why
Debt became only an issue when Ethiopia civil war started with death of Meles Zenawi. First it was Oromos. Now it's Tigrays.

If after 30yrs of Meles - debt was not an issue - how can it become an issue now.

Kenya if it goes to civil war next year - will default faster than Ethiopia.

If it doesnt and negotiate a smooth transition - it will neve default.

So see where the problem lies.

Pundit the debt junkie is very stubborn when it comes to facts.

Ethiopia was sunk by debts, Kenya is being sunk by debts.

Get that through your skull.


2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2021, 07:41:37 PM »
2006  3B to 28B - check their GDP figures - like kenya it has grown from 15B to nearly 100B - if they had not taken debt - they wont have made needed investment to grow the economy.

They would still be at 30B dollars GDP if they had not AGGRESIVELY developed by aggressively investing using borrowed money.

Look at countries that dont borrow - let go for Germany

Germany GDP in 2006 - 3 trillion

Germany GDP now - 3.3 trillion

Ethiopia in 15yrs is threatening to grow it economy 7 times (700 percent)  - while Kadudu Germany has only manage to grow by 10 percent

IS THAT MODEL YOU WANT US TO ADOPT - DONT BE STUPID LIKE THAT KISUMU GIRL - parroting developed world models - dont borrow/ride bicycles/clean environment/organic farming/bla bla - those are luxuries we cannot afford.

DEBT is  a lever for poor countries. It only way to leapfrog.


From $2B in 2008 to 28B in 2019

That's why
Debt became only an issue when Ethiopia civil war started with death of Meles Zenawi. First it was Oromos. Now it's Tigrays.

If after 30yrs of Meles - debt was not an issue - how can it become an issue now.

Kenya if it goes to civil war next year - will default faster than Ethiopia.

If it doesnt and negotiate a smooth transition - it will neve default.

So see where the problem lies.

Pundit the debt junkie is very stubborn when it comes to facts.

Ethiopia was sunk by debts, Kenya is being sunk by debts.

Get that through your skull.



Offline vooke

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2021, 07:33:02 AM »
They borrow in foreign currency. How do you repay? You have to export stuff. Exports have not been growing at the same rate and that's why they are struggling with debt.

And bulk of that 'growth' is actually this borrowed money blown on infrastructure.

Common sense


2006  3B to 28B - check their GDP figures - like kenya it has grown from 15B to nearly 100B - if they had not taken debt - they wont have made needed investment to grow the economy.

They would still be at 30B dollars GDP if they had not AGGRESIVELY developed by aggressively investing using borrowed money.

Look at countries that dont borrow - let go for Germany

Germany GDP in 2006 - 3 trillion

Germany GDP now - 3.3 trillion

Ethiopia in 15yrs is threatening to grow it economy 7 times (700 percent)  - while Kadudu Germany has only manage to grow by 10 percent

IS THAT MODEL YOU WANT US TO ADOPT - DONT BE STUPID LIKE THAT KISUMU GIRL - parroting developed world models - dont borrow/ride bicycles/clean environment/organic farming/bla bla - those are luxuries we cannot afford.

DEBT is  a lever for poor countries. It only way to leapfrog.


From $2B in 2008 to 28B in 2019

That's why
Debt became only an issue when Ethiopia civil war started with death of Meles Zenawi. First it was Oromos. Now it's Tigrays.

If after 30yrs of Meles - debt was not an issue - how can it become an issue now.

Kenya if it goes to civil war next year - will default faster than Ethiopia.

If it doesnt and negotiate a smooth transition - it will neve default.

So see where the problem lies.

Pundit the debt junkie is very stubborn when it comes to facts.

Ethiopia was sunk by debts, Kenya is being sunk by debts.

Get that through your skull.


2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2021, 07:44:34 AM »
Kenya exports has remained stuck for almost forever at 5-6b dollars - and we dont have a problem with forext.
1) Forex can come from FDI - Ethiopia has been attracting low cost manufacturing from China - as they sort out infrastructure - such rail for transporting goods to Djibouti port - Chinese and others rushed in to build factories and such.
2) Ethiopia has turned from famine basket case - to now where it exporting some food - go to Moyale - and see trucks moving to kenya with food.
3) Forex can come from exports - I believe they have grown some industries to some success - like leather.
4) They hoped to replace imports of fuel with more use of electricity to run rail - and also export electricity to Kenya, Sudan and south sudan - earn some forex. Kenya-Ethiopia already spent close a 1B dollars to connect Suswa with Ethiopia. If we kick out IPPs - we can get very cheap power from Ethiopia soon - and pay them forex.
5) Forex can come from remittance - Ethiopia has  large diaspora.
6) Forex can come from tourism. Ethiopia airline is booming.

And of course like kenya forex can come from new debts - as you retire old debts using new forex. The war and debt distress make this very dicey.
Kenya still is mostly borrowing 7B dollars to repay 7 B dollars - it debt refinancing - so forex take care of itself - new loans pay the old loans.
But if suddenly - we cannot borrow anymore - then MEGA problems.

In economy - reggae should never stop - otherwise massive problems. Corona/Civil war stops the reggae.

They borrow in foreign currency. How do you repay? You have to export stuff. Exports have not been growing at the same rate and that's why they are struggling with debt.

And bulk of that 'growth' is actually this borrowed money blown on infrastructure.

Common sense

Offline Arcadian_Dreamer

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2021, 08:21:46 AM »
Kenya exports has remained stuck for almost forever at 5-6b dollars - and we dont have a problem with forext.
1) Forex can come from FDI - Ethiopia has been attracting low cost manufacturing from China - as they sort out infrastructure - such rail for transporting goods to Djibouti port - Chinese and others rushed in to build factories and such.
2) Ethiopia has turned from famine basket case - to now where it exporting some food - go to Moyale - and see trucks moving to kenya with food.
3) Forex can come from exports - I believe they have grown some industries to some success - like leather.
4) They hoped to replace imports of fuel with more use of electricity to run rail - and also export electricity to Kenya, Sudan and south sudan - earn some forex. Kenya-Ethiopia already spent close a 1B dollars to connect Suswa with Ethiopia. If we kick out IPPs - we can get very cheap power from Ethiopia soon - and pay them forex.
5) Forex can come from remittance - Ethiopia has  large diaspora.
6) Forex can come from tourism. Ethiopia airline is booming.

And of course like kenya forex can come from new debts - as you retire old debts using new forex. The war and debt distress make this very dicey.
Kenya still is mostly borrowing 7B dollars to repay 7 B dollars - it debt refinancing - so forex take care of itself - new loans pay the old loans.
But if suddenly - we cannot borrow anymore - then MEGA problems.

In economy - reggae should never stop - otherwise massive problems. Corona/Civil war stops the reggae.

Kenya is surviving on speculative capital inflows and juggling debt as it negotiates an IMF bailout.
Sleep is good, death is better; but of course, The best would be never to have been born at all.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2021, 09:11:15 AM »
Kenya gov is juggling debt - debt refinancing - which not okay - we need to leverage - and we can get money by selling likes of Safaricom, KCB and few others for 10B dollars - this can be good seed money for infrastructure deficit fund - and then we can borrow another 90B in say 5yrs - as long as we get long maturity century bond with low interest - with 100B dollars - we can close our basic infrastructure deficit - ensure all classified roads - are paved (we are at 15-20 percent) - everyone in kenya has piped water ( we are at 40-50 percent) - everyone in kenya is connected to electricity (we are 75-80) - once we nail those basic - plus ensuring everyone is getting right free basic education (almost okay - except TIVET still far behind) and health  (50 percent - operational of NHIF complusory cover will fix this in 1-2yrs)- we can go into complicated stuff like manufacturing.

Nailing basic infrastructure plus social investment in education and health - that is the foundation.

Without it - we are going nowhere - now or in the future.

Nailing these basic infrastructure - where every kenya wakes up to electricity, paved road at least a kilometre from their homes, piped water, telcom (has solved itself) and related fintech/banking - and they are healthy with basic health insurance cover - and their kids future is secured with good education - will immediately improve the quality of life - for everyone.

Then we can think about growing business and enterprises.

Of course in places in Mt Kenya - and some urban areas of kenya - most of basic infrastructure has been nailed - what is pending for them is dealing with pockets of poverty - otherwise they should move to next stage - where gov really invest in growing SMES and enterprises.

But for places like Siaya or Bomet or Narok - there is still huge infrastracture deficit. Place like Turkana and Mandera - are still literally in stone age. Kenya policy wonks have to identify such areas - and deal with basic first - otherwise what business really will thrive in Mandera...where people spend their days fetching water kilometers away.

Nationally there is still big problem - where out of 600K kids who graduate high school  - only about 300K go to universities, tivet, colleges and name it - but 50 percent just go back to villages - without any vocational training.

Kenya is surviving on speculative capital inflows and juggling debt as it negotiates an IMF bailout.

Offline vooke

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2021, 06:54:35 AM »

Why are we refinancing debt , borrowing from IMF to pay Kung Fu?
Kenya exports has remained stuck for almost forever at 5-6b dollars - and we dont have a problem with forext.
1) Forex can come from FDI - Ethiopia has been attracting low cost manufacturing from China - as they sort out infrastructure - such rail for transporting goods to Djibouti port - Chinese and others rushed in to build factories and such.
2) Ethiopia has turned from famine basket case - to now where it exporting some food - go to Moyale - and see trucks moving to kenya with food.
3) Forex can come from exports - I believe they have grown some industries to some success - like leather.
4) They hoped to replace imports of fuel with more use of electricity to run rail - and also export electricity to Kenya, Sudan and south sudan - earn some forex. Kenya-Ethiopia already spent close a 1B dollars to connect Suswa with Ethiopia. If we kick out IPPs - we can get very cheap power from Ethiopia soon - and pay them forex.
5) Forex can come from remittance - Ethiopia has  large diaspora.
6) Forex can come from tourism. Ethiopia airline is booming.

And of course like kenya forex can come from new debts - as you retire old debts using new forex. The war and debt distress make this very dicey.
Kenya still is mostly borrowing 7B dollars to repay 7 B dollars - it debt refinancing - so forex take care of itself - new loans pay the old loans.
But if suddenly - we cannot borrow anymore - then MEGA problems.

In economy - reggae should never stop - otherwise massive problems. Corona/Civil war stops the reggae.

They borrow in foreign currency. How do you repay? You have to export stuff. Exports have not been growing at the same rate and that's why they are struggling with debt.

And bulk of that 'growth' is actually this borrowed money blown on infrastructure.

Common sense
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2021, 09:06:26 AM »
Debt refinancing..you retire expensive short term debt with long term debt..it like you extending the repayment period because you have problems paying ..we have two problems.. handshake has led to abandoned big 4and corona..

Offline vooke

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Re: Ethiopia broke
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2021, 12:48:02 PM »
War is dirty
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2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.