Plato - the most I have been scared - the difference less than mouth and nose

[RV Pundit]

Great except for the bibile nonsense.

This guy has documented the public parts well
https://www.the-star.co.ke/sasa/2016-02-23-understanding-kalenjin-initiation-rites/

Pundit

You should look at this channel

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

If what you are describing is accurate, then it is worse than FGM. What is it with primitive peoples' and violence? Seeking valor in sadistic torture rituals is not honorable. Drop those outdated rituals and get on with living in the 21st century. It is astonishing what barbarous people put up with in the name of culture. Wife inheritance, teeth pulling, lengthening of ear lobes, skin marking, etc etc. All painful and unsightly. What is needed are social gadflies who will stick to these elders.

[KenyanPlato]

If what you are describing is accurate, then it is worse than FGM. What is it with primitive peoples' and violence? Seeking valor in sadistic torture rituals is not honorable. Drop those outdated rituals and get on with living in the 21st century. It is astonishing what barbarous people put up with in the name of culture. Wife inheritance, teeth pulling, lengthening of ear lobes, skin marking, etc etc. All painful and unsightly. What is needed are social gadflies who will stick to these elders.

I really thank Kikuyu progressive nature. Do you know my Roommate was taken care of by his Mother. She said she couldn't trust any other kinyangarika with such a delicate wound. Took care of him. That is lovely. Actually there is a movement by uber rich kikuyu women to get their boys cut after birth to avoid these shenigans later in life

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

I really thank Kikuyu progressive nature. Do you know my Roommate was taken care of by his Mother. She said she couldn't trust any other kinyangarika with such a delicate wound. Took care of him. That is lovely. Actually there is a movement by uber rich kikuyu women to get their boys cut after birth to avoid these shenigans later in life

MGM - Male genital circumcision also needs to be stopped. Foreskin helps in intercourse, it doesn't dry out the female cavity as much as a circumcized one. No one wonder the ladies love them a Luo fella. In fact there is a big movement in the west to discourage male circumcision and some men are restoring their foreskins. There is no value in traditional culture whatsoever.

[KenyanPlato]

I really thank Kikuyu progressive nature. Do you know my Roommate was taken care of by his Mother. She said she couldn't trust any other kinyangarika with such a delicate wound. Took care of him. That is lovely. Actually there is a movement by uber rich kikuyu women to get their boys cut after birth to avoid these shenigans later in life

MGM - Male genital circumcision also needs to be stopped. Foreskin helps in intercourse, it doesn't dry out the female cavity as much as a circumcized one. No one wonder the ladies love them a Luo fella. In fact there is a big movement in the west to discourage male circumcision and some men are restoring their foreskins. There is no value in traditional culture whatsoever.

agreed. Let me hear from Our female friends whether cut or no cut has a sexual satisfaction advantage

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Yes the torture is bad. So bad the guy who wanted to commit suicide to this date hold grudge against my cousin - he is told me if they meet in wrong corner - he'd probably kill him. That guy - little boy - in 93 - was in class 2-3 - while I was in class 7 - so he wast following instructions - and he had issue at home - the parents had seperated - he was living with witch of step mother - and so basically all that torture - made him attempt to end his life - he got found out as he was heading to the river - and then got beaten blue. I think he has issue till this date..I remember I once hosted in mavoko...and at night he was screaming...don't kill me....we run with wife to find him all dazed..big mistake to host him in my main house coz he was my botum - now I host all them in seperate house.

The two of them - both class 2-3 - really suffered - everywhere was blisters - very bad - the entire back - eventually we intervened and timed the cousin who was notorious - and nearly killed him - got saved - and then we got more savage beatings. My dad then decreed then not be beaten but some itching leaves would be smeared on them...very itching and painful.

The beating you get there - right from day one when you haven't healed are just out of this world. Walevi passed MTC tell you to keep their cow safe (he hands you a ant or a fly) - and if he comes back - and you have lost it obviously - the beating. Some of them come with water - and while you're sleep - they pour it on thatch roofed house.

Sleeping itself is hard - because one - you cannot use a blanket - after week 1 - so you have to sleep in half skin - but there is fire the whole time - and that fire must NEVER go off - so it's huge task - someone always has to be there - huge stock of firewood.

Basically in kalenjin it's like free for all torture of young boys - by any man - for a month -  all you hear is 'lay your back bare' - then the beating. And you cannot cry - for you're now a man.

Then big night events are all sort of official torture - with safari ants - with itching leaves - with very cold water - with mud - inside thorns and forests - name any kind of physical torture - you go through it. There are days when fighting btw MTC boys and men - huge sticks - you can get hit very bad.

The idea being after that month - you'll emerge a real man - so anybody who challenge your manhood will get a taste of that.

After mine - I went to the following one 94- day one of my cousin - cut the morning after 24hrs non stop activities - they are dazed sleepy suffering - and beating started - I left - and then swore never to go to MTC - I have never gone to one - neither do I desire - the torture can make you cry.

Out of the naïve cheerful  happy boys emerged harden cruel stoic fearless reserved warriors (murenik or moran for maasai) who had almost conquered pain - except for the death of their mother - a warrior was never to cry again!.

And that is all kalejin society then cared about.

I find the rites(not necessarily the cut) retrogressive.  The idea of intentionally subjecting people to physical torture does not prepare them for the real world.  I think the Bukusus also suffer this fixation with "becoming a man".

I have seen a Kale buddy of mine lose his mind and almost get snuffed out after taking on an obviously more dangerous guy for jokingly calling him ng'etai.  It's almost like getting called Nigger by a white person for an African American.  It's obviously still a very big deal for them. 

The PTSD is also not surprising.  In fact that is the scary part.  Entire generations of scarred people who with no avenue to exhibit their "manhood" in the modern world, end up brutalizing people close to them.

[KenyanPlato]

Bitmask,

In my primary school the most vicious battle was between two std 7 boys. One of them was circumcised but in their play group there used only one boy was a Kihii. He was  built like a Tank and the other one Wathika was built  like a boxer Tyson body type. They are playing volleyball and then on a point break they have an argument. They shove around and insults are thrown around. Then the Kihii calls the one cut a Kihii. The Cut lad gets enraged and decided to protect his Masculinity. The fought boxing each other for 3 minutes got winded and they ended in a fence with Cider posts. They were using the post as rings post. They would knock each other against the post till there were both bloody and had this Knots on their heads. Their friends tried to end the fight but this Duel was going to be a death match.

How did it end? One cheeky guy had a homemade firework (you get a key with a hole, fill it up with match box dynamite and get a nail and a trigger.. to trigger the blast you hit against a hard surface). he ran to class got it and then blasted it behind the crowd. The blast sent everyone running. That fight ended there and the two respected each other after that

MGM is toxic and gives people a lot of ego that they won't exhibit if they werent cut

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Bitmask,

In my primary school the most vicious battle was between two std 7 boys. One of them was circumcised but in their play group there used only one Kihii. He was like built like a Tank and the other one Wathika was built Tyson. They are playing volleyball and then on a point break they have an argument. Shoving and names are thrown. Then the Kihii calls the one cut a Kihii. The Cut lad gets enraged and decide to protect his Masculinity. The fought boxing for 3 minutes got winded and they ended in a fence with Cider posts. They were using them as rings posts. They would knock each other against the posts till there were bloody and had this Knots on their heads. Their friends tried to end the fight but this Duel was going to be a death match.

How did it end? One cheecky guy had a homemade firework. he ran to class got it and then right it behing the crowd. THe blast sent everyone running. That fight ended there and the two respected each other after that

I have seen the kihii thing mostly in politics.  I didn't realize it was a big deal otherwise.  There is indeed that element where some people think enduring torture immunizes them against future pain . 

[KenyanPlato]

IT was a big thing growing up in rural kenya. after holidays if you got cut there were toilets and urinals just for cut lads. You had to show your dick to be accepted in this club. If you didn't get cut the traditional way you were ostracized and told you got cut to have a dick of a donkey. My buddy who got cut young was kicked out of this club for showing us his uncut friends his cut dick. We were best friends so he told me what to expect and all the trauma he exprienced. He was from a very rich family then so he was very liberal and couldn't jell well with poor kids who were growing up in different social situation. He is still my greatest friend.

[RV Pundit]

Yes, there was some of that, where you meet a jaluo who is a giant, and you have to decide to be reasonable or not. Normally if odds are stuck, you are suppose to ignore and dismiss it as childish tak . But generally what Kalenjin do is that MTC grows brotherhood or fratenity. So a challenge on one man - is a challenge on your gang. The worst is to challenge those we were in same MTC. We were 7 and because we stayed together through torture - we are like bros - so best not attack a kalenjin man when there are others around who went to same MTC.

The brotherhood start from those you're in one MTC - those guys were close to you - you were even suppose to share wives . We call them Bakule.
Then brotherhood extend to all those you went through MTC together in same year - that is those activities are done in groups of MTC; We call them Botum.
And finally entire age-set - Bo-Ibinda.

a) Bakule- Name of agemates who were circumcised in the same home or menjo.
b) Botum- name of agemates circumcised same time but different homes.

Boys that  have  successfully  completed  the  tedious and punishing initiation process are called Murenik, which literally means  “Those who  lay  down  their  lives for  the  community”. Young  men  circumcised  together  established  life-long  bonds  and  called  each  other Bakule  or  Botum.  Each  age-set  is  expected  to  appoint  a  life-long  leader  as  they  come  out  of  the  initiation.

I have seen a Kale buddy of mine lose his mind and almost get snuffed out after taking on an obviously more dangerous guy for jokingly calling him ng'etai.  It's almost like getting called Nigger by a white person for an African American.  It's obviously still a very big deal for them. 

The PTSD is also not surprising.  In fact that is the scary part.  Entire generations of scarred people who with no avenue to exhibit their "manhood" in the modern world, end up brutalizing people close to them.

[gout]

Aren't you mistaking societal dysfunctionality with progress. Men need to be socialised as men by fellow men. The vinyangarikas have experience in taking care of chopped dicks through long term apprenticeship so unless the mother is a nurse.

The boys taken care by women will still have to square it out with the vintangarikas and tough live in Afrika. Even pampered ufool had to square it at ICC and now he is waking up early on Monday for BBI- Wheelbarrow race. Or who else is this uber rich in Kiambu.

Chris Rock even intimated that the best favour each morning a black father should do to their son is to knock them off to prepare for the shit in Merica. This was before Trump
 

If what you are describing is accurate, then it is worse than FGM. What is it with primitive peoples' and violence? Seeking valor in sadistic torture rituals is not honorable. Drop those outdated rituals and get on with living in the 21st century. It is astonishing what barbarous people put up with in the name of culture. Wife inheritance, teeth pulling, lengthening of ear lobes, skin marking, etc etc. All painful and unsightly. What is needed are social gadflies who will stick to these elders.

I really thank Kikuyu progressive nature. Do you know my Roommate was taken care of by his Mother. She said she couldn't trust any other kinyangarika with such a delicate wound. Took care of him. That is lovely. Actually there is a movement by uber rich kikuyu women to get their boys cut after birth to avoid these shenigans later in life

[RV Pundit]

These are my nephews (except the boy in blue)..look like due to covid-19 - they did it early - normally they would come out december - this is two months early. Those are boys graduating in their skin attire - that thing was very oil and smelly - and you had to wear for like 4 days.

You don't take a show for a whole month in MTC - but just before this - you are taken to river from 3 am and you scrap yourself for half day - and then wear that final skin - and begin the graduation ceremony - if you're no last in circle of friends to visit - you wear the skin for even a week - until you reach home, throw that stick to the sacred place - and then you can be allowed to wear clothes, shave your head and become a real man.