Author Topic: Raila led '82 Coup Attempt Underrated by Media  (Read 7512 times)

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Raila led '82 Coup Attempt Underrated by Media
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2020, 09:33:07 PM »
The father of constitution keep fathering it. If you know Raila has been here since 1960s - you would not be excited. All the 90s were spent on agitating for new constitution. All the 80s. All the 70s. All the 2000s and all 2010s...and now 2020s. Please CONSTITUTION is not problem. Britain doesn't have one.

We need to stop talking and start doing. We need to do simple things...like waking up and going to work from 8-5am - and actually working. Ruto is kind of the guy who does the doing more than the talking.

We have practical problems that require practical solutions.

There is reason why countries that have developed recently are mostly dictatorship - from South Asians (Taiwan,Singapore, South Korea, Malaysia, name them, see China vs India) to likes of Rwanda and Ethiopia - because those regimes GET PEOPLE TO STOP TALKING AND START DOING.

Any lazy idiot can talk a storm - but who will actually roll their sleeves and get dirty - that is hard work if like the spoilt brats UhuRailaGideon arrive at office mid-day nursing hangover - and have to sit through marathon meetings and make thousands phonecalls. Poverty will not be eradicated with parliamentary system of gov - but people building roads, schools, homes, digging their farms, etc.

Kenya has allowed a snake oil saleman to keep talking the same bullshiet over and over - and when given an opportunity - he deliver nearly zero. That is why kibera remained a shit hole like bondo....and Okoth Ken got in there...and with same CDF...fixed a lot...because everyone know Okoth was a doer.

Kibra need this...not long lecture about system of gov...by the same monkeys..


Raila and Uhuru are solving the enduring African problem : division and instability. Ruto as usual is the No guy.

Offline Garliv

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Re: Raila led '82 Coup Attempt Underrated by Media
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2020, 10:27:12 PM »
To Judge Moi appreciate the historical and geopolitical realities of his day.
1. I don't know whether any other African country had attempted or managed to have multipartism. Therefore he would have been hesitant and without much example to enumerate.

2. Economically Africa economy was designed to serve the colonial masters and superpower, US. It is still is but then it was worse. Therefore he wouldn't have been able to change much. Just like Kenyatta had adopted economic model dictated or left by Britain. Besides there was very little alternative knowledge/education to implement anything else.

3. For corruption, Kenyatta was not much difference. A professor of Anthropology at Nairobi University gave a theory about this TKK (toa kitu kidogo). It goes like this: in African culture (most of them anyway) when one pay a visit to someone either for some service, request or whatever first they are welcomed with "chai" and something to "chase away hunger.." then afterwards they deal with the "real issue/agenda" of the meeting. In a commercialised society TKK takes place of that tradition.
When "chief" or "village Richman" or "senior mzee" invited people to his home or to a gathering he had to show/flaunt his wealth and influence. Translated into modern commercialised society the "big men" have to give handouts, offer some favours, donate cash here and there in a way to flaunt and be recognised.

And this still works today. An honest hard working civil servant who relies on his salary may not achieve much in terms of big houses or cars or anything. But among "his people" and in his "village" he is dismissed as a useless fella who "had big position" and did "nothing with it" and "didn't even help his people..." "huyo mtu ni bure kabisaa.."

My point this corruption this and this TKK is deeply ingrained that we need to study ourselves. We can keep "fighting corruption" from dawn to dusk with such attitudes the fight may never be worn. That's why even civil servants at EACC or DPP would need "mshirikiane" so as "msaidiane..."

4. Finally, remember cold war era. It shaped a lot of what African leaders did or did not do. And it shaped Africa's destiny. In politics and economics.
Then neoliberal economic theory that was forced onto Kenya didn't help. Indeed i would argue it's the worst thing ever!

Koreans didn't follow IMF/WB to get where they are despite what some Western/Kenyan sources claim.



Moi's brute and barbarism is actually blamed on Raila who triggered him like an automaton. If you weigh the good and the bad of Moi he comes up pretty short. I have argued here before that he invented "TKK" and democratised corruption. The economy really tanked under Moi. The lost opportunity - when people contrast the Asian Tigers - Moi squandered Kenya's golden years.

Moi ERROR is Kenya's dark age.

Offline Garliv

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Re: Raila led '82 Coup Attempt Underrated by Media
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2020, 10:31:33 PM »
You have really bought into this Raila/Uhuru thing? You will be disappointed. Soon or later one of them will realise it will not work then they part ways. That will be the day.


Raila and Uhuru are solving the enduring African problem : division and instability. Ruto as usual is the No guy.

Offline Wa Njambi

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Re: Raila led '82 Coup Attempt Underrated by Media
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2020, 10:44:46 PM »
BTW...Speaking of which...Odingas were never anywhere around the coup. Raila just took advantage of it.

Inevitably I expect to be labelled a Raila hater or even a Luo hater but i have noticed while Moi's excesses have been covered by media plus his "goodness.." there is one MAJOR ISSUE that has been understated so much and it's an issue which actually may have been turning point in Moi's Presidential Legacy.

That is 1982 Coup Attempt. Famous personality involved in that Coup was Raila. Stories abound how Jaramogi sent emissary to convince Moi not to execute Raila as he had others. Before the Coup Attempt no one can claim or claimed Moi was harsh or dictatorial. He was busy visiting all over the country and popularising his Nyayo Philosophy. And some Mnyonyoko wa Udongo Initiative. But after the Coup Attempt, Moi became paranoid. He surrounded himself with those he could trust. He energised security services to crack down on any and all dissenting voices. He terror reign started then and would last roughly 9 yrs before easing into multipartism.

So as the country prepares to Bury him this event of 82 seems to be swept under the carpet. It's as if Moi was born and has been brutal throughout.
Where's Raila to say something on it?

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Raila led '82 Coup Attempt Underrated by Media
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2020, 11:01:46 PM »
Tall buildings and shiny rail are ok but not panacea by themselves. The reason performance wobble or rise and fall with the individual leader Moi or Kibaki - is because of opaque unaccoutable system. You can see how devolution has taken tarmac to forsaken Isiolo... reforms are critical. Leadership is not hyperactivity. It brainwork. That's why lame Kibaki could dramatically outperform the omnipresent Moi. The country- roaming Mr Harambee himself.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Raila led '82 Coup Attempt Underrated by Media
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2020, 11:10:43 PM »
Those are your wishes not the reality. You will be disappointed when the reforms are complete.

You have really bought into this Raila/Uhuru thing? You will be disappointed. Soon or later one of them will realise it will not work then they part ways. That will be the day.


Raila and Uhuru are solving the enduring African problem : division and instability. Ruto as usual is the No guy.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Raila led '82 Coup Attempt Underrated by Media
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2020, 11:27:24 PM »
All factors considered Moi was a catastrophe. Even Pundit admits this. One could toe the UK or US line but still perform. Moi can only be credited with a semblance of peace/stability... which as C in C is akin to D score - basic function like breathing. Moronic reasoning like destroying Gema economy to neuter them politically. Or instigating tribal clashes. MOI ACTIVELY DESTROYED THE ECONOMY. That's barbarism 101.

To Judge Moi appreciate the historical and geopolitical realities of his day.
1. I don't know whether any other African country had attempted or managed to have multipartism. Therefore he would have been hesitant and without much example to enumerate.

2. Economically Africa economy was designed to serve the colonial masters and superpower, US. It is still is but then it was worse. Therefore he wouldn't have been able to change much. Just like Kenyatta had adopted economic model dictated or left by Britain. Besides there was very little alternative knowledge/education to implement anything else.

3. For corruption, Kenyatta was not much difference. A professor of Anthropology at Nairobi University gave a theory about this TKK (toa kitu kidogo). It goes like this: in African culture (most of them anyway) when one pay a visit to someone either for some service, request or whatever first they are welcomed with "chai" and something to "chase away hunger.." then afterwards they deal with the "real issue/agenda" of the meeting. In a commercialised society TKK takes place of that tradition.
When "chief" or "village Richman" or "senior mzee" invited people to his home or to a gathering he had to show/flaunt his wealth and influence. Translated into modern commercialised society the "big men" have to give handouts, offer some favours, donate cash here and there in a way to flaunt and be recognised.

And this still works today. An honest hard working civil servant who relies on his salary may not achieve much in terms of big houses or cars or anything. But among "his people" and in his "village" he is dismissed as a useless fella who "had big position" and did "nothing with it" and "didn't even help his people..." "huyo mtu ni bure kabisaa.."

My point this corruption this and this TKK is deeply ingrained that we need to study ourselves. We can keep "fighting corruption" from dawn to dusk with such attitudes the fight may never be worn. That's why even civil servants at EACC or DPP would need "mshirikiane" so as "msaidiane..."

4. Finally, remember cold war era. It shaped a lot of what African leaders did or did not do. And it shaped Africa's destiny. In politics and economics.
Then neoliberal economic theory that was forced onto Kenya didn't help. Indeed i would argue it's the worst thing ever!

Koreans didn't follow IMF/WB to get where they are despite what some Western/Kenyan sources claim.



Moi's brute and barbarism is actually blamed on Raila who triggered him like an automaton. If you weigh the good and the bad of Moi he comes up pretty short. I have argued here before that he invented "TKK" and democratised corruption. The economy really tanked under Moi. The lost opportunity - when people contrast the Asian Tigers - Moi squandered Kenya's golden years.

Moi ERROR is Kenya's dark age.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Wa Njambi

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Re: Raila led '82 Coup Attempt Underrated by Media
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2020, 12:11:58 AM »
Robina, Hiyo ni ukweli. This 'magic' never works never has. Uhuru cannot deliver Raila to state house, period. How would he, even if Mama Ngina ordered? But even more interesting is how Raila would believe this lie. Now, I am not saying this because I support Ruto. I am saying this because anyone who believes that Uhuru suddenly changed his mind and decides to support his #1 enemy is naïve. In New-Kanu, Moi even made Raila the Party SG and he believed the 'Maheni'. If Uhuru is for real, he doesn't have the support of the Kikuyu community. I will live this here...UK is proving to be a big liar. Because of him, we live to fight again. He should have let him keep his Monday protests that were going to die a natural death.

Those are your wishes not the reality. You will be disappointed when the reforms are complete.

You have really bought into this Raila/Uhuru thing? You will be disappointed. Soon or later one of them will realise it will not work then they part ways. That will be the day.


Raila and Uhuru are solving the enduring African problem : division and instability. Ruto as usual is the No guy.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Raila led '82 Coup Attempt Underrated by Media
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2020, 06:53:41 AM »
I see you are another dispassionate pundit with a horse in the race. What is Uhuru's reason for the Handshake? Just maandamano? He is selling it all the way in America. People have been impeached for it.

Robina, Hiyo ni ukweli. This 'magic' never works never has. Uhuru cannot deliver Raila to state house, period. How would he, even if Mama Ngina ordered? But even more interesting is how Raila would believe this lie. Now, I am not saying this because I support Ruto. I am saying this because anyone who believes that Uhuru suddenly changed his mind and decides to support his #1 enemy is naïve. In New-Kanu, Moi even made Raila the Party SG and he believed the 'Maheni'. If Uhuru is for real, he doesn't have the support of the Kikuyu community. I will live this here...UK is proving to be a big liar. Because of him, we live to fight again. He should have let him keep his Monday protests that were going to die a natural death.

Those are your wishes not the reality. You will be disappointed when the reforms are complete.

You have really bought into this Raila/Uhuru thing? You will be disappointed. Soon or later one of them will realise it will not work then they part ways. That will be the day.


Raila and Uhuru are solving the enduring African problem : division and instability. Ruto as usual is the No guy.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels