Ruto win Kagame & Museveni's Young Achiever Award

[RV Pundit]

HK, you're falling into the single-issue trap. You're so focused on debt & economic policies that you disagree with to realize we are frying a bigger fish here. To move a country forwards - require more than just economic intervention, there are social, political and so many variables that need to progressively move forward. Suharto had to deal with issues regarding health, education, infrastructure, macro-economics (you pet subject), political, social, name it.  And that is what Jubilee are doing. And they've done a great job in my view.All you have is your theory on how to economically move this country - Jubilee have proven with nearly 6% average growth that they know what they are doing. They've put huge investment in infrastructure, huge investment in social safety net, huge spending in education, huge spending in health (reducing mortality rate) and are ramping up efforts there.

We can talk about Suharto corrupt yet effective gov if you want. It won't be fair to compare Indonesia with 260M people with Malaysia with pop less than Uganda. Besides Suharto left power in 1998 - and the new democratic non-corrupt govs have failed to replicate the early success of Suharto?

In conclusion - corruption is non-issue - what matters is the bottom and top-line. They are indicators that we use to track if we are making progress in socio-economic and political arena - let us use those to measure whether Jubilee are doing a good job or not. GDP growth is good one for economy. Health - we have life expectancy, mortality rates and access & cost of health care, we can go on and on...but at end of the day...they are OBJECTIVE EMPERICAL EVIDENCE DRIVEN WAYS TO measure progress. Not our subjective theories that say "debt is bad" or "invest in xyz".

Politically and socially - UhuRuto have united a broken country that emerged from 2008 progrom - they started by reconciling sworn enemies of Kikuyus & kalenjin that ODM told us was oil & water - created one strong party Jubilee and have now neutered Raila. That is what count as leadership and move the country FORWARD. This was Kibaki faulty - Kibaki was always a single-issue dude who only talked about the ECONOMY and we know we don't want to get into such a mess again - we want someone like Ruto who is multi-talented enough to hold all the moving parts together. Kibaki grew the economy to 7.2%...then mismanaged it to 1.7%!! and nearly created a civil war. That is definition of a single-issue moron.

pundit,

pinochet Chile and Suharto Indonesia adopted a pro growth economic policy.  indonesia https://www.indonesia-investments.com/culture/economy/new-order-miracle/item247? Chile https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/chile/president-pinochet-economy.htm . This is what led to rapid growth i.e free markets system . Not deficit spending that Jubilee has embarked on. If it wasn't for corruption Indonesia would be as wealthy as Malaysia (GDP per Capita).

[Nefertiti]

pundit,

pinochet Chile and Suharto Indonesia adopted a pro growth economic policy.  indonesia https://www.indonesia-investments.com/culture/economy/new-order-miracle/item247? Chile https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/chile/president-pinochet-economy.htm . This is what led to rapid growth i.e free markets system . Not deficit spending that Jubilee has embarked on. If it wasn't for corruption Indonesia would be as wealthy as Malaysia (GDP per Capita).

Exactly. Indonesia developed in spite of corruption. Remove the corruption and the growth would have been higher. There is no documented case where corruption caused or aided development. Quite the opposite. Successful but corrupt countries are a very rare exception. Most highly corrupt countries are basket case. The most cited fast developers - the Tigers and China - have viciously and ruthlessly uprooted corruption. In Africa Rwanda,  Mauritius, Botswana as the top examples of economic rise - very low corruption.

Our contention is whether Kenya can afford to take this very risky gamble with William Ruto.

[Nefertiti]

The track analogy... I will settle for the hardworking driver who doesn't steal. The developed world is replete with this type while the hardworking thief is a rare success. Statistically speaking you have a losing argument.

Actually this very simple assignment. I will start with personal anecdote. Just this Sunday I was drinking with my uncle and bro - all of us are in transport & maize business - my bro in matatu, my uncle and I are in maize cum truck business (- and we were discussing what best crew to have - and conclusion was the best drive-turnboy- you can have is a corrupt but smart crew that although steals from you - knows how to find work (contracts, etc). The worst crew you can get is an honest bongo-lala who will just wait for you to do everything. I remember talking with another uncle who owns tractors - and he was of the same opinion - almost always the honest drivers are the most useless who'll drive you to bankruptcy.In short you've got to be really stupid not to steal when the opportunity is staring at you.. If we were talking tribal - you'd rather hire a thieving kikuyu who will make sure you both thrive - rather than honest luo who'll confine you to poverty. It more like Tanzania versus Kenya. Tanzania is an honest poor man. Kenya is thriving thief. Obviously the worst is thief who does nothing but steal - thankfully those end up in prisons pretty quickly. Lazy thieves soon get caught

Now talk of countries that have thrive with corruption...start with kenya (compare it with other sub-sahara countries).

But more important look at Chile & Indonesia. Indonesia...Suharto stole 35B dollars...my man Ruto is just at 2B..but Indonesia grew in leaps and bounds. The same is true in Chile.

Kenya want smart hardworking thief like Ruto. He'll make his money but kenya (the owner of the truck) will make even MORE. If you put a bongo-lala like Kalonzo - he'll drive the country down like Tanzania now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe Kenyans are very smart to have selected Ruto, Waiguru, Sonko and Waitutu - just like we are smart enough to hire some of most corrupt drivers to drive our busineess. Only a fool will not take care of his self-interest. That fool will drive the business and country DOWN.
 
The driver we want in Kenya is Ruto - smart, hardworking go-getter who get the job done. We will ignore that he'll be taking his cut for every deal he cut us. That is what wakes him up - it incentive to work hard for the country - he get his cuts - but country get a bigger junk of the steak. If you insist on banking every cent and watching the bottomline..you'll soon have nothing to watch. Ruto is so ambitious he'll be in office at 5am - making money for the country and getting his cut. Bongo-lala like the rest will arrive at work around lunch hour before retiring to soon for more binge drinking.

Ruto has 30 yrs of nothing but EXEMPLARY performance - be in in the party, in parliament, in cdf, as cabinet member and now as DPORK. That is what we want!

Pundit I would like to see examples of corruption being somehow a positive to national development. Any corrupt Tigers? Don't conflate dictatorship with corruption.

[RV Pundit]

Robina..that so lame.String a coherent rebuttal and I will respond.

[gout]

Corruption kills productivity. Across the agricultural sector, every producer keeps crying of low productivity, poor returns linked to little fertilizer application not knowing that even the little fertilizer being applied is garbage and there is nothing they can do.   

The numbers are rather shocking: 361 containers of fertiliser, which is 67 per cent of the cargo analysed, has so far failed the test and will be destroyed. Pundits (except RV Pundit ) say that this is an indicator of the rip-off that farmers faced on an annual basis.

https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Tests-reveal-imported-sugar--fertiliser-and-cooking-oil-fake/1056-4726286-n9eamm/index.html

[RV Pundit]

That kind of corruption is very bad. KEBS just need to be completely overhauled. But don't let the police loose - looking for fake fertilizers all over the country - who will stock sugar or oil or fertilizer now??? genuine or not genuine. The problem need to be sorted at the port of ENTRY..and whatever has passed..should be assumed to have met the standard...and if the one horse has bolt..too bad..fix the door.

Corruption kills productivity. Across the agricultural sector, every producer keeps crying of low productivity, poor returns linked to little fertilizer application not knowing that even the little fertilizer being applied is garbage and there is nothing they can do.   

The numbers are rather shocking: 361 containers of fertiliser, which is 67 per cent of the cargo analysed, has so far failed the test and will be destroyed. Pundits (except RV Pundit ) say that this is an indicator of the rip-off that farmers faced on an annual basis.

https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Tests-reveal-imported-sugar--fertiliser-and-cooking-oil-fake/1056-4726286-n9eamm/index.html

[gout]

All thugs be it at KEBS and all government agencies or in the matatus are applying Ruto's protestant logic- If Jomo and Moi stole you can't stop me while you are reaping the benefits. Selective application of the law is as dangerous as total breakdown of rule of law. 

Rememeber, the vetting of police was largely killed by OP with Uhuru at some time telling Kavulundi to let 'polisi wafanye biashara', while we all know their business is t look the other way and escort such fake fertilizer, sugar and such.

[RV Pundit]

I am just saying kill corruption - don't kill the country or economy in the process. This is delicate surgery. What Matiangi unleashed is pure chaos. Deal with port of entry.

All thugs be it at KEBS and all government agencies or in the matatus are applying Ruto's protestant logic- If Jomo and Moi stole you can't stop me while you are reaping the benefits. Selective application of the law is as dangerous as total breakdown of rule of law. 

Rememeber, the vetting of police was largely killed by OP with Uhuru at some time telling Kavulundi to let 'polisi wafanye biashara', while we all know their business is t look the other way and escort such fake fertilizer, sugar and such.

[Nefertiti]

Forget FDI or productivity or fertiliser or terrorism. Corruption literally means DEATH where folks now import poison as food. I don't know how Pundit and Ruto hope to win this argument : I'm so efficient that my corruption is sufferable. Kenya never had a better chance to weed out the cancer by rejecting Ruto.

[Kichwa]

Pundit's support for Ruto is fanatical. If Ruto were to engage in mass killing or genocide, pundit will find away to justify it.

Forget FDI or productivity or fertiliser or terrorism. Corruption literally means DEATH where folks now import poison as food. I don't know how Pundit and Ruto hope to win this argument : I'm so efficient that my corruption is sufferable. Kenya never had a better chance to weed out the cancer by rejecting Ruto.

[RV Pundit]

Raila is corrupt.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Pundit's support for Ruto is fanatical. If Ruto were to engage in mass killing or genocide, pundit will find away to justify it.

Forget FDI or productivity or fertiliser or terrorism. Corruption literally means DEATH where folks now import poison as food. I don't know how Pundit and Ruto hope to win this argument : I'm so efficient that my corruption is sufferable. Kenya never had a better chance to weed out the cancer by rejecting Ruto.

He has found the hill he will happily die on.

[RV Pundit]

I am not dead yet...keep your eulogy