Let's Pray

[vooke]

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Good morning church,
I had long desired to share more on the Holy Spirit but stuff keeps coming up. Let's start.


From scriptures, Holy Spirit is given the most inanimate characteristics and I believe for this reason, we may mistake Him for a force, essence. In Genesis 1:1, the Spirit of God is presented as a wind blowing over the earth. He is also presented as a dove at baptism. That's what John saw



On Pentecost in Acts 2, a strong wind blew in the Upper Room and they were filled with the Holy Spirit.


Here, Jesus himself gave the water and springs metaphor to Holy Spirit.

There is a popular KJV rendering of a verse where Holy Spirit is called 'it'

Romans 8:26 (KJV)
 but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered

Let's now look something the Holy Spirit does, SPEAKING.

Acts 8:29 (KJV)
Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot

Acts 10:19-20 (KJV)
While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them

Acts 13:2(KJV)
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said,Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them

1 Timothy 4:1 (KJV)
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

Revelation 22:17 (KJV)
And the Spirit and the bride say Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely

These verses are not symbolic in any way, the Spirit is said to have spoken, not once or twice but severally.  The reason I press this is because it has been countered that ALL these references are symbolic. That is just stretching the natural reading of these verses most of which are historical narratives. In any case, what is being symbolized? What/who spoke?

Summary
-The Holy Spirit has very many inanimate symbols in the scriptures
-The Holy Spirit SPEAKS

....to be continued


Have a super blessed Lord's Day as we worship Him

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

This is thanks to MOON Ki

[mya88]

These verses are not symbolic in any way, the Spirit is said to have spoken, not once or twice but severally.  The reason I press this is because it has been countered that ALL these references are symbolic. That is just stretching the natural reading of these verses most of which are historical narratives. In any case, what is being symbolized? What/who spoke?


John 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.

vooke

When we pray, we usually give thanks to the father, the son and the holy spirit...Is the holy spirit an entity in itself or are they ALLDoubt is a major hindrance to receiving the Holy SpiritIt is reasonable to have doubts especially when you lack knowledge of such things, however, there is a level of faith that comes with accepting salvation. From your experience, you got BOHS without even asking and by your own admission before you had sound knowledge about the experience. Some people even after the BOHS still had doubts about what they think they experienced and what is known to be true. Do you agree with this?

2. "This seems self-explanatory since most issues pertaining to God and his word/gifts require faith. Common sense cannot explain most of it.
In fact, if people expect this, they are likely to be disappointed. "

But I thought you told me to be expectant. How else would I know that I have the gift?In fact, a good place to start is to begin speaking the first syllable that comes to your mind.But I thought you mind has no place in this experience?

[vooke]

vooke

When we pray, we usually give thanks to the father, the son and the holy spirit...Is the holy spirit an entity in itself or are they ALL three the same.

Hi mya88,
I have juggled many thoughts in my mind about the nature of God. Just like now even with modern science we have vast but still limited understand of the human body, I believe it is nothing to be ashamed as a Christian to admit we don't know all or even a fraction of who God is. But at the same time, we are not entirely clueless. God certainly reveals Himself to us.

Why would we not know all there is to know about God? We may not comprehend all there is to know about Him. Our minds are finite, fixed. Then God may choose not to reveal everything about Himself we can understand.

What we have now are scriptures. We should stick to that because all else is conjecture. In theology, we have a concept called progressive Revelation where from Genesis through to Revelation, God continually reveals, clarifies previous revelations. For instance,I doubt the likes of Noah knew about the virgin birth of Jesus. You also find not much regarding heaven in the Old Testament unlike New Testament. The Holy Spirit is no exception in my opinion and so is God's nature, the concept of the Only Begotten Son of God.

I hope I have not lost you. With this background in mind, I can now attempt to answer your question. God. I believe Holy Spirit is a separate entity from the Son and the Father. It is only Blasphemy against Holy Spirit that is not forgiven, not the Son nor the Father. At Jesus baptism, Jesus on earth, a voice from heaven, and Holy Spirit descending like a dove. The baptism formula, the name of the Father,Of Son and Holy Spirit. Name is an identity. The famous benediction, the Grace, Grace of our Lord, Love of God AND the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit...

I call Holy Spirit He because that is the noun ascribed Him

Doubt is a major hindrance to receiving the Holy SpiritIt is reasonable to have doubts especially when you lack knowledge of such things, however, there is a level of faith that comes with accepting salvation. From your experience, you got BOHS without even asking and by your own admission before you had sound knowledge about the experience. Some people even after the BOHS still had doubts about what they think they experienced and what is known to be true. Do you agree with this?

I think doubt is acceptable but not recommended. Most doubt is rooted in ignorance. The rest is unbelief. You just don't believe God will baptize you with fire, you think that's too outrageous. Sometimes atheists are extremely skeptical of God. They place very ridiculous conditions for their belief. Let God show up right here and I will believe. God may show up, but from experience, He seldom answers to skepticism. Like the Parable of Rich man and Lazarus. The dead guy is like if a man can resurrect, may be he can persuade my living brothers. He is told, if they won't believe the scriptures, not even a resurrected preacher can convince them.

So don't beat you just because some doubt sneaks in, just don't watch it degenerate into full blown skepticism

2. "This seems self-explanatory since most issues pertaining to God and his word/gifts require faith. Common sense cannot explain most of it.

Very true. The whole idea of a 33year old guy dying for the entire world is crazy.
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In fact, if people expect this, they are likely to be disappointed. "

But I thought you told me to be expectant. How else would I know that I have the gift?

You know Jesus says when you pray, believe you have it ALREADY and you shall have it. I think the author is stressing faith. Believe BEFORE not while nor AFTER. Thomas would only believe AFTER. Jesus says 'blessed are those who believe without seeing'.

The man emphasizes that you should not look for specifics. Guys wait for some energy, fire, wind, smoke.....just wait on God. Jesus told them not to wait for wind from heaven or tongues of fire or even tongues themselves but POWER. This is why I discourage subjective experiences. Even in Acts, BOHS was different. Wind and fire in Acts 2, elsewhere it was less dramatic.

In fact, a good place to start is to begin speaking the first syllable that comes to your mind.But I thought you mind has no place in this experience?

I may not understand the full context but the point is as I had earlier mentioned. Step out. The disciples was praying when they started praying in tongues. They was not sleeping. So you should be praying and waiting. For vooke, I only realized I hD it when I went to pray. It must have happened in the last 24 hours but I had no idea!

[mya88]

Hi mya88.

God. I believe Holy Spirit is a separate entity from the Son and the Father. It is only Blasphemy against Holy Spirit that is not forgiven, not the Son nor the Father. At Jesus baptism, Jesus on earth, a voice from heaven, and Holy Spirit descending like a dove. The baptism formula, the name of the Father,Of Son and Holy Spirit. Name is an identity. The famous benediction, the Grace, Grace of our Lord, Love of God AND the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit...

I call Holy Spirit He because that is the noun ascribed Him

So don't beat you just because some doubt sneaks in, just don't watch it degenerate into full blown skepticism

I assumed he was talking about salvation and not BOHS....no?

You know Jesus says when you pray, believe you have it ALREADY and you shall have it. I think the author is stressing faith. Believe BEFORE not while nor AFTER. Thomas would only believe AFTER. Jesus says 'blessed are those who believe without seeing'.

Good to know.

[vooke]

Hi mya88,
Jesus spoke these words to the woman on the well in Samaria. There was some rift between Jews and semi-Jews/Samaritans, different modes of worship.....the mama is like 'you guys (Jews)worship there and we (Samaritans) worship here'. Jesus responds by saying Samaritans was worshiping in ignorance unlike Jews but all that is past and presently the Father seeks those who worship in truth and spirit. Then these words. I think the essence of the verse is to show that God is not restricted to a place here on earth. So I believe God's nature is in focus here. His nature is such as you can reach him wherever and whenever.

The reason I share this verse is because we sometimes think Spirit is some force,wind....but Spirit is the real nature of God.

This then is the mystery. God's nature is spiritual/Spirit and Holy Spirit is a separate entity of the Godhead.

In the OT, we have Holy Spirit as well but the experience was limited to few, to prophets. So in Joel 2:28, God promises a global in filling of the Holy Spirit, everyone not just a few. Remember kina Samson had it. We are told Holy Spirit came upon them and they did feats.

Joel 2:28 (KJV)
28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your old men shall dream dreams,
your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids
in those days will I pour out my spirit.

I'd say that we should be grateful you are realizing BOHS when you still have time and energy to explore it. I don't want to learn some life changing aspects of the gospel on my death bed. I need that now so my life can be transformed NOW.

Prayers.....I think I once shared here. There are basically two types of commandments; DO and DON'T. whatever we are told to do is what we are least inclined to do. And whatever we are told not to do is what we are naturally 'wired' to do. Do not commit adultery, Love your neighbor.....when it comes to prayers, we are exhorted to pray. This means naturally we tend to prayerlessness. It's like gravity. Falling is natural. Resisting gravity takes efforts.

So I feel you. Am also there. Prayer is not one of my strongest point. It takes conscious efforts to develop a habit of prayer. Just keep at it, keep trying, and keep praying for the grace to pray. If you are so desirous to spend time with God, am sure He will make it much easier....and pray for BOHS. Remember prayer is an infirmity/weakness and Holy Spirit as per Romans 8 helps us IN it. So you gotta be doing IT for him to help you.

I can offer some free advise. Spare some time in your busy day. Get some privacy. And talk to God like He is your hubby. And share your weaknesses. The other thing, get into prayer cells. I just came from a kesha. It is really lifting to be surrounded by others deep in prayers. In Acts when BOHS happened on Pentecost, they was gathered together. Corporate prayers I believe are quite powerful.

When reading this scripture:
I assumed he was talking about salvation and not BOHS....no?

I believe He was talking about BOTH. remember the order is believe, salvation,then BOHS
John 7:38-39 (KJV)
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

I believe the first part of coming to Christ and drinking points to salvation. In John 4 his conversation with the Samaritan woman he uses the figure of water as well. Points to salvation, life eternal.
In v38 quoted, he talks of rivers, springs bubbling from your deepest part. And then this is interpreted for us by John to mean BOHS

Good to know.

I honestly admire your hunger for the things of God. You have your reward I can tell. Right now, there are some aspects am still learning and yearning to know more. I also desire to have a deeper hunger for the Word of God. My devotion is far from its peak. It has gone down. Some things I share here God taught me many years ago. So I been asking, what happened? I need that. I also need to impact this world by my life. So I know you won't stop with BOHS, you will reach out for more. Like I told you, am some serious work-in-progress.

Shalom.



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