Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on May 11, 2021, 11:43:40 AM
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https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2021-05-11-high-court-to-rule-on-anti-bbi-petitions-on-thursday/
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1F89HkWQAYA8c2?format=jpg&name=medium)
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Your legally incoherent behind is about to be exposed. At least you will still have the "Ruto is wildly popular in Gema" straw.
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Punditry is reduced to kalenjin nationalism jingoism and posturing.
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Judiciary can self-immolate; Let's see if they will sacrifice themselves for Raila.
Your legally incoherent behind is about to be exposed. At least you will still have the "Ruto is wildly popular in Gema" straw.
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Robina - do you have post-BBI life? This is assuming high court tomorrow rules that BBI is dead. How do we proceed from here?
If high court okays BBI - we go for referendum - and our constitution get so multilated it becomes a mess - and worse it undoes all the constitutional gains.
My expectation
1) High court will rule that BBI be put in ice until parliament enact laws to guide the process.
2) High court will issues advisory on what such a law should address....for example you don't expect the "People" to draft a constitutional bill - without the help of says Kenya Law Reform (KLR) - whose job is to ensure we don't end up with BBI mess - huge document containing policies, manifestos, white papers and name it.
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Robina - do you have post-BBI life? This is assuming high court tomorrow rules that BBI is dead. How do we proceed from here?
I don't see that happening. I don't need to read long petitions by Ndii - case after case against BBI has been lost. Basic structure and all 8 cases are flimsy attempts to circumvent Wanjiku like some MPs just attempted and failed. The judges will say: if this amendment is so dangerous for Kenya, hit the campaign trail and convince them to vote No. Judges will not supplant democracy.
Now: if the judges kill BBI? Small chance for CoA to overturn such ruling, and it would indeed die. Resurrection by correcting the mistakes would undermine it big first, and second too little time to correct.
As I expect: judges dismiss petitions with cost, Ndiis run to CoA - which takes few more months. By Dec - SCORK - Uhuru-Raila declare it too late and decide on 22-combo to save 14B for youths. This is the plan. The IEBC and Chebukati degazetting the albino Isaac Mwaura at midnight cannot save you.
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Well Pundit, IFF BBI is killed by the courts, Raila chances will tank as Ruto becomes unassailable. Akin to 2017 October. One Kenya hyenas - Kalonzos, Mdvds - are in it for the BBI posts not any patriotism. Big, fat if.
Some Tangatangas dream that Uhuru might use BBI to claim his term starts afresh - ala Moi 1992 :) - but I think Uhuru is smart enough to see that won't work. He will not even try impose a Gema - which one now? - or a Matiang'i. Raila-Ruto coalition would plunge Kenya back to 2007-8 chaos. I see Uhuru just pocketing BBI goodies as his Gema legacy and endorse Raila-BBI lineup to crash Ruto.
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Well, we shall see tomorrow. Personally my hopes are high that BBI will put on the brakes and possibly killed. By time judges ruled the 8 petitions raised weighty issues - then they are weight issues - then be prepared for anything. Secondly the judges do not like amendment that will affect their jobs in 3 months time. Do not think judiciary has no say in this - in fact during CJ interviews - nearly all of them were opposed to BBI. Finally likes of Odunga promotion were already blocked by Uhuru and so this is payback time.
So while you're planning for 2022 election with Ruto in mind -there are people who will be affected by BBI immediately it passes - judiciary - judges being the biggest losers. JSC will have powers to suspend them taking away security of tenure...and Ombudsman will be all over them collecting all manners of allegations against them.
If high court rules BBI is okay - Uhuru will sign BBI into law by midnight tomorrow - and will try to circumvent any appeal. It will be terrible news for Kenya - if you're a progressive like me.
The problem with waiting for 2022 - you won't get the 70 constituencies :) - which main selling point for BBI. So forget your own self-delusion. BBI deadline is August - otherwise any boundary delamination one year to election - are outlawed by the constitution.
I don't see that happening. I don't need to read long petitions by Ndii - case after case against BBI has been lost. Basic structure and all 8 cases are flimsy attempts to circumvent Wanjiku like some MPs just attempted and failed. The judges will say: if this amendment is so dangerous for Kenya, hit the campaign trail and convince them to vote No. Judges will not supplant democracy.
Now: if the judges kill BBI? Small chance for CoA to overturn such ruling, and it would indeed die. Resurrection by correcting the mistakes would undermine it big first, and second too little time to correct.
As I expect: judges dismiss petitions with cost, Ndiis run to CoA - which takes few more months. By Dec - SCORK - Uhuru-Raila declare it too late and decide on 22-combo to save 14B for youths. This is the plan. The IEBC and Chebukati degazetting the albino Isaac Mwaura at midnight cannot save you.
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I bet Raila and Uhuru are walking the phones - threatening judges like Odunga - not to do that.
I don't think anything changes.
Uhuru will play his games - but will gema people go onboard.
I honestly cannot tell Uhuru game-plan here - I know for sure he will retire - and I don't buy the 3rd time.
I don't buy that Uhuru will EVER support Raila for PORK.
It easy for him to reconcile with Ruto - than to support Raila for PORK.
The kenya elite fear Raila...GEMA have serious phobia on Raila and Luos.
Well Pundit, IFF BBI is killed by the courts, Raila chances will tank as Ruto becomes unassailable. Akin to 2017 October. One Kenya hyenas - Kalonzos, Mdvds - are in it for the BBI posts not any patriotism. Big, fat if.
Some Tangatangas dream that Uhuru might use BBI to claim his term starts afresh - ala Moi 1992 :) - but I think Uhuru is smart enough to see that won't work. He will not even try impose a Gema - which one now? - or a Matiang'i. Raila-Ruto coalition would plunge Kenya back to 2007-8 chaos. I see Uhuru just pocketing BBI goodies as his Gema legacy and endorse Raila-BBI lineup to crash Ruto.
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Robina - do you have post-BBI life? This is assuming high court tomorrow rules that BBI is dead. How do we proceed from here?
If high court okays BBI - we go for referendum - and our constitution get so multilated it becomes a mess - and worse it undoes all the constitutional gains.
My expectation
1) High court will rule that BBI be put in ice until parliament enact laws to guide the process.
2) High court will issues advisory on what such a law should address....for example you don't expect the "People" to draft a constitutional bill - without the help of says Kenya Law Reform (KLR) - whose job is to ensure we don't end up with BBI mess - huge document containing policies, manifestos, white papers and name it.
I see. If high court "puts BBI on ice" - that is same as killing it - and Ruto becomes unassailable again. But high court will not do that... precedent? 2005-10 there were guidelines in the draft bills themselves, not in a separate law which would still be in the books.
About BBI mutilating the katiba 2010 bla bla, that clearly a matter of opinion. BBI is Bomas + CoE Drafts minus regions. It is what majority of Kenyans want. Hold a referendum now and see - Wanjikus will split just like MPs. It why Ruto is watermelon.
Personally I am very happy with 35%, hybrid, the gender formula of only top losing candidates nominated - plus capped at 15 years or 3 terms. I don't believe in freeloading forever - if Kenyans don't vote women so be it. I had issues with regional 3rd tier which is gone thank goodness. Kenyans also rejected pure parliamentary and am okay with that.
Don't cry Ruto can still win :) if Ngugi and judges ignore the law. Tough luck.
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Robina, why has parliament NOT passed referendum law? The reality is we have these 12 petitions because there is no law guiding the process. The constitution contains the big picture...the details parliament were supposed to fill in...by describing all these issues.
Why has Uhuru and Raila not covered that base.
High court judges (or any judge) do not want BBI (not unless they are idiots) - and for me - it is for them to look for the best excuse to kill it.
And it's to blame parliament for failing to enact the referendum law.
We end up with process where nobody is sure, where gov is playing under hand, and all the games.
Parliament need to take the next six months to pass the referendum bill :) - and BBI can collect the signatures again.
I see. If high court "puts BBI on ice" - that is same as killing it - and Ruto becomes unassailable again. But high court will not do that... precedent? 2005-10 there were guidelines in the draft bills themselves, not in a separate law which would still be in the books.
About BBI mutilating the katiba 2010 bla bla, that clearly a matter of opinion. BBI is Bomas + CoE Drafts minus regions. It is what majority of Kenyans want. Hold a referendum now and see - Wanjikus will split just like MPs. It why Ruto is watermelon.
Personally I am very happy with 35%, hybrid, the gender formula of only top losing candidates nominated - plus capped at 15 years or 3 terms. I don't believe in freeloading forever - if Kenyans don't vote women so be it. I had issues with regional 3rd tier which is gone thank goodness. Kenyans also rejected pure parliamentary and am okay with that.
Don't cry Ruto can still win :) if Ngugi and judges ignore the law. Tough luck.
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Judges are not politicians. They rule on the law, facts, precedent. They don't care about Raila or Ruto - they even issue orders directly against Uhuru or Matiang'i despite getting ignored. They are professional - not like MPs. We shall see.
Well, we shall see tomorrow. Personally my hopes are high that BBI will put on the brakes and possibly killed. By time judges ruled the 8 petitions raised weighty issues - then they are weight issues - then be prepared for anything. Secondly the judges do not like amendment that will affect their jobs in 3 months time. Do not think judiciary has no say in this - in fact during CJ interviews - nearly all of them were opposed to BBI. Finally likes of Odunga promotion were already blocked by Uhuru and so this is payback time.
Ombudsman is not that powerful as you claim. CJ chairs JSC with other judges and will be Ombudsman boss - decide whether or not to act on the report. This is actually just accountability for independent judiciary. Otherwise presently you cannot report deliberately delayed cases or such misconduct easily.
So while you're planning for 2022 election with Ruto in mind -there are people who will be affected by BBI immediately it passes - judiciary - judges being the biggest losers. JSC will have powers to suspend them taking away security of tenure...and Ombudsman will be all over them collecting all manners of allegations against them.
Nope - Uhuru must ask IEBC to conduct referendum first. There is no panya route to declare some clauses as already passed - those are Tangatanga lies to scare ODM. Tumesoma - a bill is either popular or parliamentary but not both. The MPs 2/3 yes vote was great optics but not binding on any part of the bill.
If high court rules BBI is okay - Uhuru will sign BBI into law by midnight tomorrow - and will try to circumvent any appeal. It will be terrible news for Kenya - if you're a progressive like me.
Yes - 2022 combo means 70 new seats will be 2027 if ever. But 1M1S revenue, hybrid, 35%, gender, nomination by total votes are already there. If BBI lineup sticks Raila will need less of Gema than Ruto.
The problem with waiting for 2022 - you won't get the 70 constituencies :) - which main selling point for BBI. So forget your own self-delusion. BBI deadline is August - otherwise any boundary delamination one year to election - are outlawed by the constitution.
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Judges=Lawyers. The rest are details. BBI targets judiciary. JSC have been given powers to suspend judges and Ombusdman is now constitutional body - appointed by president - and will be collecting and coming up with findings - which will have many serious implications.
BBI tried to appease everyone - bribed MCAs with 2 millons - MPs to be ministers - but forget the judiciary.
Anyway I think we wait for tomorrow afternoon. You never saw the Judiciary coming....it could be Ruto ace :)
Judges are not politicians. They rule on the law, facts, precedent. They don't care about Raila or Ruto - they even issue orders directly against Uhuru or Matiang'i despite getting ignored. They are professional - not like MPs. We shall see.
Well, we shall see tomorrow. Personally my hopes are high that BBI will put on the brakes and possibly killed. By time judges ruled the 8 petitions raised weighty issues - then they are weight issues - then be prepared for anything. Secondly the judges do not like amendment that will affect their jobs in 3 months time. Do not think judiciary has no say in this - in fact during CJ interviews - nearly all of them were opposed to BBI. Finally likes of Odunga promotion were already blocked by Uhuru and so this is payback time.
Ombudsman is not that powerful as you claim. CJ chairs JSC with other judges and will be Ombudsman boss - decide whether or not to act on the report. This is actually just accountability for independent judiciary. Otherwise presently you cannot report deliberately delayed cases or such misconduct easily.
So while you're planning for 2022 election with Ruto in mind -there are people who will be affected by BBI immediately it passes - judiciary - judges being the biggest losers. JSC will have powers to suspend them taking away security of tenure...and Ombudsman will be all over them collecting all manners of allegations against them.
Nope - Uhuru must ask IEBC to conduct referendum first. There is no panya route to declare some clauses as already passed - those are Tangatanga lies to scare ODM. Tumesoma - a bill is either popular or parliamentary but not both. The MPs 2/3 yes vote was great optics but not binding on any part of the bill.
If high court rules BBI is okay - Uhuru will sign BBI into law by midnight tomorrow - and will try to circumvent any appeal. It will be terrible news for Kenya - if you're a progressive like me.
Yes - 2022 combo means 70 new seats will be 2027 if ever. But 1M1S revenue, hybrid, 35%, gender, nomination by total votes are already there. If BBI lineup sticks Raila will need less of Gema than Ruto.
The problem with waiting for 2022 - you won't get the 70 constituencies :) - which main selling point for BBI. So forget your own self-delusion. BBI deadline is August - otherwise any boundary delamination one year to election - are outlawed by the constitution.
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There was no referendum law in 2005, 2010. The process was in the Bomas/Kilifi/Wako and CoE/Naivasha Draft Bills themselves as addenda. Further CoK2010 is very clear on the amendment process for fear of mischief. The basic areas are very well covered in katiba.
Say popular vs parliamentary definition? Clear as day vs night. You are conflating Ndii or Karua verbose sour grapes with reality. Omtatas will always run to court whether you have a law or not. You see pre-2013 - MPs refused to pass campaign finance law and that did not stop the elections.
Stuff like Ndii's "basic structure" - delusional nonsense - does he mean to say BoR or 3arms structure is sacrosanct and Kenyans cannot amend it :o That is such a self-defeating argument. Kenyans can decide to have 4 or 5 or whatever structure - so long as it passes by majority - Ndii and his ivory tower ideologues can only make noise.
To sum my diatribe: referendum law is not necessary. I don;t even need to confirm that CoK2010 does not even mention it by name. Just "parliament shall enact necessary legislation to effect this chapter."
Robina, why has parliament NOT passed referendum law? The reality is we have these 12 petitions because there is no law guiding the process. The constitution contains the big picture...the details parliament were supposed to fill in...by describing all these issues.
Why has Uhuru and Raila not covered that base.
High court judges (or any judge) do not want BBI (not unless they are idiots) - and for me - it is for them to look for the best excuse to kill it.
And it's to blame parliament for failing to enact the referendum law.
We end up with process where nobody is sure, where gov is playing under hand, and all the games.
Parliament need to take the next six months to pass the referendum bill :) - and BBI can collect the signatures again.
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Robina ,have you really read BBI ? JO will be very powerful even more than a Chief Justice. He/She will be in JSC like a Chief Justice , will be allocated a seperate budget from Judiciary and will be answerable to Legislature and the President.
Do you know why Lumumba was unable to perfom his duties in EACC ? Wacha mchezo.
40. Article 167 of the Constitution is amended by
inserting the following new clause immediately after clause
(5)—
“(6) The provisions of clauses (2), (3) and (4)
relating to the tenure of office of the Chief Justice
shall apply to the office of the Deputy Chief
Justice.”
Amendment of
Article 168 of
the
Constitution.
41. Article 168 (2) of the Constitution is amended
by inserting the words “on a motion by the Judiciary
Ombudsman” immediately after the words “acting on its
own motion”.
Amendment of
Article 171 of
the
Constitution.
42. Article 171 of the Constitution is amended—
(a) in clause (2) by inserting the following new
paragraph immediately after paragraph (h)—
“(i) the Judiciary Ombudsman, who is an ex
officio member”
(b) in clause (4) by deleting the words “and shall be
eligible to be nominated for one further term of
five years”.
(c) by inserting the following new clauses
immediately after clause (4)—
“(5) The members of the Commission
elected under clause (2) (f) shall not practice
in courts and tribunals during their period of
service with the Commission.
Amendment of
Article 172 of
the
Constitution.
43. Article 172 (1) of the Constitution is amended
by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after
paragraph (c)—
“(ca) receive complaints against judges,
investigate and discipline judges by warning,
reprimanding or suspending a judge.”
Insertion of
new Article
172A in the
Constitution.
44. The Constitution is amended by inserting the
following new Article immediately after Article 172—
172A. The Office of the Judiciary Ombudsman
(1) There is established the Office of the
Judiciary Ombudsman.
(2) The President shall nominate and, with the
approval of the Senate, appoint the Judiciary
Ombudsman.
(3) The Judiciary Ombudsman shall—
(a) receive and conduct inquiries into
complaints against judges, registrars,
magistrates, and other judicial officers and
other staff of the judiciary;
(b) sensitise and promote engagement with the
public on the role and performance of the
Judiciary; and
(c) improve transparency and accountability of
the Judiciary.
(4) The Judiciary Ombudsman shall prepare
regular reports to the Judicial Service Commission
and an annual report to Parliament on any
complaint under clause (3), which shall state—
(a) the findings of the Judiciary Ombudsman;
and
(b) recommendations on the action to be taken
by the Judicial Service Commission.
(5) The qualifications for appointment as the
Judiciary Ombudsman are the same as for the
appointment as a judge of the Supreme Court.
(6) The Judiciary Ombudsman shall not
investigate any matter pending before any court or
tribunal or reopen a court or tribunal case or review
a judge’s decision.
(7) The Judiciary Ombudsman shall hold office
for a single term of five years and is not eligible for
re-appointment.
(8) Parliament shall—
(a) allocate adequate funds to enable the office
of the Judiciary Ombudsman to perform its
functions; and
(b) enact legislation to give full effect to this article.
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Usual excuses to explain away defeat. The cases will be tossed because they are flimsy not phone calls.
Uhuru plan: Uhuru is Gema King so I don't get how "Gema fear Raila" or trust Ruto. They speak daily though their actions to scorn Ruto. Just yesterday and last week they voted majority to pass BBI. Only few Nyoros and Kindiki voted No. Kang'ata was abit of a surprise. Simple: Uhuru and Gema elite don't want Ruto to be PORK so they are undermining him big by inducing their folks to dump him.
If 3rd term rumor was to happen, Ruto would have no choice but to back Raila - and hope to be toshwad in 2027 :) Otherwise the reality now is Raila has the upper hand as his BBI baby near reality.
I bet Raila and Uhuru are walking the phones - threatening judges like Odunga - not to do that.
I don't think anything changes.
Uhuru will play his games - but will gema people go onboard.
I honestly cannot tell Uhuru game-plan here - I know for sure he will retire - and I don't buy the 3rd time.
I don't buy that Uhuru will EVER support Raila for PORK.
It easy for him to reconcile with Ruto - than to support Raila for PORK.
The kenya elite fear Raila...GEMA have serious phobia on Raila and Luos.
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2005/2010 - were overhauling the constitution. You don't quite get it.
BBi is amending the constitution using popular initiative without any legistlation to guide it.
The result - we have 8-12 cases - meaning it's not clear.
It's not clear what popular initiative is and who can initiate it - that is not part of Ndii suggestion.
Can gov for example initiative popular initiative or should they go through parliament?
Can gov uses prov administration to collect signatures? How much of those signatures would procured in free and willing manner?
How is MCAs suppose to deal with it.
How is IEBC suppose to verify sigantures? Parliament need to guide IEBC how to verify this? Maybe publish signatures for 2 months ? Otherwise IEBC ended up creating their own processes.
How is parliament suppose to deal with such bills? Can they ammend it - Can they do editorial editing?
Bla bla.
In short judiciary will not answer these questions but will kick the ball to parliament to enact the law.
There was no referendum law in 2005, 2010. The process was in the Bomas/Kilifi/Wako and CoE/Naivasha Draft Bills themselves as addenda. Further CoK2010 is very clear on the amendment process for fear of mischief. The basic areas are very well covered in katiba.
Say popular vs parliamentary definition? Clear as day vs night. You are conflating Ndii or Karua verbose sour grapes with reality. Omtatas will always run to court whether you have a law or not. You see pre-2013 - MPs refused to pass campaign finance law and that did not stop the elections.
Stuff like Ndii's "basic structure" - delusional nonsense - does he mean to say BoR or 3arms structure is sacrosanct and Kenyans cannot amend it :o That is such a self-defeating argument. Kenyans can decide to have 4 or 5 or whatever structure - so long as it passes by majority - Ndii and his ivory tower ideologues can only make noise.
To sum my diatribe: referendum law is not necessary. I don;t even need to confirm that CoK2010 does not even mention it by name. Just "parliament shall enact necessary legislation to effect this chapter."
Robina, why has parliament NOT passed referendum law? The reality is we have these 12 petitions because there is no law guiding the process. The constitution contains the big picture...the details parliament were supposed to fill in...by describing all these issues.
Why has Uhuru and Raila not covered that base.
High court judges (or any judge) do not want BBI (not unless they are idiots) - and for me - it is for them to look for the best excuse to kill it.
And it's to blame parliament for failing to enact the referendum law.
We end up with process where nobody is sure, where gov is playing under hand, and all the games.
Parliament need to take the next six months to pass the referendum bill :) - and BBI can collect the signatures again.
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You're not privy to Uhuru's plan. Politics has intrigues. It's not what you see is what you get. You may be surprised that Uhuru and Ruto do talk :) either directly or through emissaries. How did Raila ended up doing the handshake with Uhuru - when Uhuru used to hate Raila.
Your what you is what you get is POLITICAL NAIVETY
Usual excuses to explain away defeat. The cases will be tossed because they are flimsy not phone calls.
Uhuru plan: Uhuru is Gema King so I don't get how "Gema fear Raila" or trust Ruto. They speak daily though their actions to scorn Ruto. Just yesterday and last week they voted majority to pass BBI. Only few Nyoros and Kindiki voted No. Kang'ata was abit of a surprise. Simple: Uhuru and Gema elite don't want Ruto to be PORK so they are undermining him big by inducing their folks to dump him.
If 3rd term rumor was to happen, Ruto would have no choice but to back Raila - and hope to be toshwad in 2027 :) Otherwise the reality now is Raila has the upper hand as his BBI baby near reality.
I bet Raila and Uhuru are walking the phones - threatening judges like Odunga - not to do that.
I don't think anything changes.
Uhuru will play his games - but will gema people go onboard.
I honestly cannot tell Uhuru game-plan here - I know for sure he will retire - and I don't buy the 3rd time.
I don't buy that Uhuru will EVER support Raila for PORK.
It easy for him to reconcile with Ruto - than to support Raila for PORK.
The kenya elite fear Raila...GEMA have serious phobia on Raila and Luos.
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Robina....these the issues under consideration...BBI has to JUMP ALL THESE 17 HURDLES :) :). Prepare a burial ground for BBI.
http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/207503/
The Consolidated Petitions as we understand them raise, inter alia, the following issues:
a. Whether the legal and judicial doctrines of the “Basic Structure” of a Constitution, the doctrines of “Constitutional entrenchment clauses” “Un-amendable Constitutional Provisions”, “Unconstitutional constitutional amendments” “essential features” “supra-constitutional laws” in a Constitution, and the implied limitations of the amendment power in a constitution are applicable in the Republic of Kenya;
b. If the legal and judicial doctrines described in (a) above are applicable in Kenya, whether they apply to limit the amendability of Chapter ONE on Sovereignty of the People and Supremacy of the Constitution, Chapter TWO on the Republic, Chapter FOUR on the Bill of Rights, Chapter NINE on the Executive and Chapter TEN on the Judiciary and the provisions therein either under Article 256 by Parliament or through popular initiative under Article 257 of the Constitution;
c. Whether in the process of formulating the Constitutional Amendment Bill, the provisions of Articles 27 and 47 of the Constitution as read with Section 4 of the Fair Administrative Action Act were adhered to;
d. Whether the entire BBI process culminating with the launch of the Constitutional Amendment Bill was undertaken constitutionally having regard to Articles 1, 2, 3, 10, 255 and 257 of the Constitution;
e. Whether the Constitutional Amendment Bill is a Popular initiative as envisaged under Article 257 of the Constitution and if not, whether the process chosen to enact the constitutional amendment is fundamentally flawed and constitutionally infirm;
f. Whether at the time of launch of the Constitutional Amendment Bill and the collection of endorsement signatures, there was a legislation governing the collection, presentation, and verification signatures or a legal framework or administrative structure to govern the conduct of referenda in the Country, and whether the absence of such legal and administrative framework is fatal for the Constitutional Amendment Bill under consideration;
g. Whether the 3rd Respondent, the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (the Commission), and the County Assemblies can exercise their powers under Article 257 of the Constitution to receive, verify and approve the Constitutional Amendment Bill in the prevailing circumstances;
h. Whether, by dint of Article 257 (5) and (7) of the Constitution, the County Assemblies and Parliament have the power to alter and or improve the contents of the Constitutional Amendment Bill so as to incorporate divergent views raised through public participation;
i. Whether Article 257(10) requires all the specific proposed amendments to the Constitution to be submitted as separate and distinct referendum questions to the people in the referendum ballot paper;
j. Whether the constitutional edict does empower the National Executive or any State organ, as opposed to Parliament, to pursue or initiate any amendment to the Constitution without petitioning Parliament;
k. Whether in a popular initiative to amend the Constitution, the National Executive may use public resources, including deploying public and State officers to either collect signatures or popularize any intended amendments to the Constitution;
l. Whether the intended constitutional amendment processes are in conformity with the National Values in Article 10 of the Constitution;
m. Whether the Second Schedule to the Constitutional Amendment Bill in so far as it purports to set seventy as the number of constituencies; predetermine the allocation of the said constituencies; and direct the Commission in so far as the function of constituency delimitation is concerned, is unconstitutional and/or illegal and/or irregular;
n. Whether the Steering Committee on the Implementation of the Building Bridges to a United Kenya Taskforce Report is an unlawful entity under the Laws of Kenya and whether it has locus standi in promoting constitutional changes pursuant to Article 257 of the Constitution;
o. Whether the current Parliament has been declared unconstitutional by the Chief Justice and whether it can it can consider the Constitutional Amendment Bill if approved by the County Assemblies;
p. Whether the Commission is legally constituted to carry out the referendum;
q. Whether there has been public participation in the constitutional amendment process.
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If and buts. Conjecture. Guesswork. We have the news when it happens.
You're not privy to Uhuru's plan. Politics has intrigues. It's not what you see is what you get. You may be surprised that Uhuru and Ruto do talk :) either directly or through emissaries. How did Raila ended up doing the handshake with Uhuru - when Uhuru used to hate Raila.
Your what you is what you get is POLITICAL NAIVETY
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So your punditry (if we can call that) is just reacting to news :) :). Your bring no value here. Just heckling like Kondele woman who reads the newspapers. Ours is to understand the Intrigues behind the scenes and to predict the future (hard).
If and buts. Conjecture. Guesswork. We have the news when it happens.
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For Ngugi and Odunga is a personal fist fight. Mwita has been clear on Miguna cases
Justices Joel Ngugi, George Odunga, Jarius Ngaah, Janet Mulwa and Chacha Mwita are set to make their judgement on seven petitions challenging the BBI process.
The Court of Appeal may hear out Kihara, ama it is also kaput.
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Kihara has snitched on the judges - I don't think he has any friends there. Judiciary are not fools to pass something inimical to their interest.
As for Ngugi and Odunga - Uhuru has sat on their promotion illegally - now he wants BBI to make it legal. It really doesn't make sense to have a judge so overqualified like Ngugi sitting in high court...he should be at supreme court
The recommended judges to be promoted to CAJ are as Justices Tuiyot Francis, Omondi Hellen, Justice Nyamweya Pauline, Korir Weldon, Msangah Mbogholi, Justice Muchelule Aggrey, Dr.Kibaya Laibuta, Jessie Lesiit, Ngugi Grace Mumbi, George Odunga and Joel Ngugi.
For Ngugi and Odunga is a personal fist fight. Mwita has been clear on Miguna cases
Justices Joel Ngugi, George Odunga, Jarius Ngaah, Janet Mulwa and Chacha Mwita are set to make their judgement on seven petitions challenging the BBI process.
The Court of Appeal may hear out Kihara, ama it is also kaput.
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I see this barrage of 17 suits being thrown out on technicality. Uhuru move to swear in judges has cooled temperatures greatly.
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Then after that - they become forever subservient to the executive. Only a stupid judiciary will allow BBI to pass.
I see this barrage of 17 suits being thrown out on technicality. Uhuru move to swear in judges has cooled temperatures greatly.
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Anybody following the rulling
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Seems broken already. pathetic simple technology integration despite billions going into such .
https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=2573893929585920&ref=watch_permalink
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Thanks but no sound
https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=2573893929585920&ref=watch_permalink
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Complete mess - nothing going on - I can see the AG waiting to join :)
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It seems to be on - technical issues. They are asking us to exit the virtual court room :) No WAY!
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Nothing going on - seems teams is collapsing again.
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this not going to happen...teams cannot function..upload the jugdement already
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Finally they are seated.
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Citizen to the rescue
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Korti bandia imeamua mambo ya Bibi Yao? Kuna kijana mmoja leo ako korti hili, kesho ako korti lile juu ya mali ya kuiba. Mwingine akiamka asubuhi pombe and bangi, jioni pombe. Ati wanasema KKk, kabila hili lishikane na lile litenge kabila hili.
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If korti bandia kill BBI - Raila handshake would have come unstuck..and premium tears will swell.
Korti bandia imeamua mambo ya Bibi Yao? Kuna kijana mmoja leo ako korti hili, kesho ako korti lile juu ya mali ya kuiba. Mwingine akiamka asubuhi pombe and bangi, jioni pombe. Ati wanasema KKk, kabila hili lishikane na lile litenge kabila hili.
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Okay. And what if they toss out the nonsense petitions? Will they still be bandia or will you have new excuses and grievances?
If korti bandia kill BBI - Raila handshake would have come unstuck..and premium tears will swell.
Korti bandia imeamua mambo ya Bibi Yao? Kuna kijana mmoja leo ako korti hili, kesho ako korti lile juu ya mali ya kuiba. Mwingine akiamka asubuhi pombe and bangi, jioni pombe. Ati wanasema KKk, kabila hili lishikane na lile litenge kabila hili.
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Not of course. They will be korti jinga. Bandia is Raila word that Kenya Plato is using
Okay. And what if they toss out the nonsense petitions? Will they still be bandia or will you have new excuses and grievances?
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The eloquent Ngugi reading the judgement. The genesis of handshake and BBI.
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It appears like we have a unanimous decision.
Judge Odunga on Analysis.
Constitution basic structure doctrine.
Kenya constitution is tranformative.
Odunga we need to go back to history.
Model of participatory model - meaningful participation.
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Following closely.....
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BBI drinking water - Kenya Judiciary ready to defend kenya constitution 2010. Flowery language to describe it.
Give long synopsis of what happened to the old constitution.
Hyper-amendment - constitution without constitutionalism - misuse - that degrade the constitution more akin to stature.
Very nice. The tenor of the argument is that BBI is mongrel that seeks to seek to undermine the constitution and mess with constitutionalism.
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Uhuru dreams of returning to Kenya to his father and adopted father's era is drinking water...Odunga firing warning shots.
We go back to 1990s. History is important so we don't repeat it again.
Wanjiku led constitution-led reforms since mid-90s.
Talk of Constitutional Amendment Act - of Mid 2000s
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Premium tears loading - Odunga describe in length what it took - to make Constitution 2010.
Participation - more description of how deep it went.
Implication - you cannot just do a kamikaze thing, bribe everyone and amend our CoK2010 - something that took 2 decades and MANY LIVES lost.
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Justice Odunga still on a long journey by CKRC - and the pervasive participation, accountability, and etc
We are still 2002...president Moi scuttled the process by dissolving the process.
CKRC to report Bomas....Kibaki reneged.
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This long explanation is simple for me - NDII is winning - Kenya constitution BASIC structure cannot be amended just via referendum alone - there has to be a long process.
That basically kills BBI before we get to 17 other knockouts.
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This would be a nice read , a good history teaching ......It reminds me that Wako has been in all the constituional changing Processes.
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Justice Odunga now in 2008 progrom and Kofi Annan led mediation.
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Mandatory history for Robina and her ilk..who just support anything for cynical shortism..STOP RUTO...not knowing Ruto could crash in his chopper tomorrow...and bad constitution will reset us back to 1970s.
My prayers is CoK2010 never get ammended easily and stays like US constitution for 200yrs with minimal amendment.
Ammend your politics. Leave the constitution.
This would be a nice read , a good history teaching ......It reminds me that Wako has been in all the constituional changing Processes.
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Justice Odunga - still going on what it took to come up with CoK2010.
Kenyans attached a lot of seriousness to constitution making
Cok2010 - took 20yrs.
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Justice Odunga - On Ndii argument- basic structure - unless overhauling -not even parliament
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ODUNGA KENYA INTEND TO PROTECT BASIC STRUCTURE>
TEARS ROLLING
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You can only OVERHAUL constitution if you want FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES - by taking 20yrs :) to involve everyone including ogiek in deep the forest.
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Cok2010 lives to fight another day. Raila premium tears we warned
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THE TEXT STRUCTURE, HUSTORY, NATURE AND CONTEXT MEANS THAT BASIC STRUCTURE DOCTRINE IS APPLICABLE IN KENYA..
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Absolutely brilliant move by Ndii and company - that basically killed BBI and many future BBIs.
THE TEXT STRUCTURE, HUSTORY, NATURE AND CONTEXT MEANS THAT BASIC STRUCTURE DOCTRINE IS APPLICABLE IN KENYA..
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Justice Ngaah - on the 2nd Question - BBI and Basic struture - what is the fate.
Ngaah goes back to the history of popular initiative - Odunga already described as legislative equivalent to minimal constitutional changes.
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Justice Ngaah - GOV CANNOT amend through Popular initiative.
Another KNOCK OUT.
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Justice Ngaah - on BBI secretariat.
Controversial BBI taskforce - gazette notice.
BBI is a presidential task force. President exercise executive authority.
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BBI is not a a popular initiative , it was presidential Initiative
He should have used AG to initiatie a Parliamentary Initiative
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Ngaah - Uhuru should have asked AG - to send his nonsense to parliament. Now BBI is FATALLY WOUNDED but we still have 17 punches - we aint pulling punches. Raila premium tears still loading!
Popular initiative is STRICTLY for poor citizens...not powerful gov to get over 1M signatures..and circumvent the parliamentary legislative role.
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Total ruBBIsh! Most stinking wastage of time, energies, monies and national psyche.
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Uhuru knew it was ruBBIsh meant to entertain Raila. I doubt he is that stupid. For him the money for BBI is like buying peace.
Total ruBBIsh! Most stinking wastage of time, energies, monies and national psyche.
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Ngaah - Uhuru cannot argue he did it as citizen - private citizen - but he gazetted BBI and went on to fund it with public resources.
Premium tears still loading on Raila...but he never listen....to some of us with free well thought out advices.
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Ngaah - Popular initiative only for those who do not have wherewithal to go through parliament.
This like indictment of president Uhuru and Kuhara - total KNOCKOUT after KNOCKOUTT
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Ngaah - on legality and regularity of BBI taskforces. Housekeeping the BBI taskforces itself.
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What next for Uhuru and Raila - maybe run to COA (now down to 13 overworked judges) and ask them to overturn the judgement overnight or just go home. It knockout after knockout.
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I don't think anybody can recover from these bodily blows. They are fatal. Well COA - well with Ouko and Koome out - maybe Kihara still has friends who would like to plunge Kenya to go down civil war.
Otherwise, these are KNOCKOUT on substantial issues by a unanimous 5-bench judges.
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Ngaah has gone totally latin - estoppel estoppel? Issue estoppel? res judicita.
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Remember Ouko is still the President of COA. He was given a carrot and is on his way to Supreme Court. Lets see if he pulls a Kihara. I gather they are 15 now , (including Koome and Ouko) If it falls to 12 the COA becomes dysfunctional.
What next for Uhuru and Raila - maybe run to COA (now down to 13 overworked judges) and ask them to overturn the judgement overnight or just go home. It knockout after knockout.
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Nobody in judiciary want BBI - not even Koome. Because Uhuru will be gone out tomorrow - and you'll deal with BBI consequences - and become a rat for rest of your life under NIS.
BBI cannot be salvaged.
Remember Ouko is still the President of COA. He was given a carrot and is on his way to Supreme Court. Lets see if he pulls a Kihara. I gather they are 15 now , (including Koome and Ouko) If it falls to 12 the COA becomes dysfunctional.
What next for Uhuru and Raila - maybe run to COA (now down to 13 overworked judges) and ask them to overturn the judgement overnight or just go home. It knockout after knockout.
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Damn my laptop power is running out - will be kicked out from Teams now - I need to find Citizen TV.
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Ngaah - judgement on Turkana boy do not apply to a PRESIDENT :) . Turkana boy was in order to do Punguza Mzigo.
Now to lady Justice Matheka. Ngaah we have juridisctions. Now Mathemaka to Uhuru on personal capacity
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https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2021-05-13-koome-vetting-cj-nominee-vouches-for-arbitration-unit-to-handle-stalemates/
On the BBI proposal to create a Judiciary Ombudsman, Koome told the Committee chaired by Kangema MP Muturi Kigano that she is open to any intervention that will ensure accountable and efficient judiciary
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Nobody in judiciary want BBI - not even Koome. Because Uhuru will be gone out tomorrow - and you'll deal with BBI consequences - and become a rat for rest of your life under NIS.
BBI cannot be salvaged.
Remember Ouko is still the President of COA. He was given a carrot and is on his way to Supreme Court. Lets see if he pulls a Kihara. I gather they are 15 now , (including Koome and Ouko) If it falls to 12 the COA becomes dysfunctional.
What next for Uhuru and Raila - maybe run to COA (now down to 13 overworked judges) and ask them to overturn the judgement overnight or just go home. It knockout after knockout.
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ufool has placed his ass on landmines - "while cannot be sued but should be held responsible ......."
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She was saying that to get the job..now she has job..next president is not tribesman..she will be dealing with hostile gov and does not need ombudsman she cannot control
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The games have began , Come after us and you will find yourself in a very bad place.
ufool has placed his ass on landmines - "while cannot be sued but should be held responsible ......."
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ufool has placed his ass on landmines - "while cannot be sued but should be held responsible ......."
nobody can return Kenya to moi era so soon even if they are senile and desperate like raila.Go drying like moi
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should kenyans and the courts watch as a president like ufool drag the country to a cliff or stop him in the tracks?
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Please someone to update..on my phone now
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Even if it is getting the job, Utmost responsibilty of CJ is to guard Judiciary Indipendence jealously.
She was saying that to get the job..now she has job..next president is not tribesman
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Even if it is getting the job, Utmost responsibilty of CJ is to guard Judiciary Indipendence jealously.
She was saying that to get the job..now she has job..next president is not tribesman
obvious one condition to get the job..was to chant bbi 4 times
..ngatia most likely refused
.but koome is not stupid..she lived moi era
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BBI steering committee was unconstituional. He should have established it through PSC.
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The likes of Robina
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Audio feed distorted. The teams admin is clueless on how to mute some users.
voters must be supplied with copies .... english ..kiswahili ...
audio now lost!
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Information was not provided at every stage. Public was not sensitized.
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mr ufool cannot initiate popular initiative purporting national unity while disrespecting, trashing the constitution
the president has fallen short of leadership expectation...
it is personal .... the judges clearly saw through the insults thrown at them
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On information being sought, public entities ain't brookside to refuse ....
No specific legislation for referendum ........ on procedure of IEBC processing bills to NA and CAs.......
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Elections Act not a Referendum Act ....
Framing question not similar to composite blah blah
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Janet Mulwa turn to bury the nightmare.
No government institution can hijack popular initiative and ride on it. Parliament cannot the rubbish into a parliamentary initiative.
Legislative assemblies cannot amend.
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The technology is shutting up. A recess for 10 Minutes to set up a new link.
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BBI not a binary questions yet binary choices...
Binary choices encourage polarization ..societal division...adversarial....
Multi option offers choice... compromise... advisable if justifiable... appropriate, sensible in diverse ..
Necessary to conduct multi options referendum....
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BBI propasals should have been presented as seperate amendment questions. The drafters of Constituion envisioned it.
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Dull Chebukati getting legal backing on illegality of rubbish attempts to create new constituencies.
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17 nill the highest score ever
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BBI propasals should have been presented as seperate amendment questions. The drafters of Constituion envisioned it.
BBI propasals should have been presented as seperate amendment questions. The drafters of Constituion envisioned it.
PhD ruto told them
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Absolutely.kenya can chart a different course like USA did through such honest rulling devoid of short termism..proud to be a Kenyan.These judges like anyone who fought Moi oppression have made us proud.We want to be modern democracy..not gucking Uganda or Tanzania or Somali
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What are the implications of that on recent elections? Even Haji who was unopposed?
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Prof Ngugi of Harvard killing Mama Ngina boy
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20 - Itr's uncostitutional to uncostitutional...uhuru getting kick in the nuts.
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Wow!Wow! The saboteurs of our suckling statehood will need more than burning midnight oil to continue with their arrogance. It can only be a military coup!
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We will send the soft boys to exile. let them try. it's over for them. this is it. they cannot bribe the judiciary. we fought moi - and we can fight them
Wow!Wow! The saboteurs of our suckling statehood will need more than burning midnight oil to continue with their arrogance. It can only be a military coup!
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Ofcourse you know Raila and ODM will use pregious tactics which they presume worked before. Protests to deligitimize Judiciary. They managed with IEBC , but that was a constituional body , secondly s halt of IEBC can only affect By elections and elections which come by pretiodically.
Judiciary is whole different ball game all together . Its an arm of a Government. Secondly its work is round the clock. Also if dissatisfied , they can also appeal. That process will take ages.
Uhuru and Raila went into checkers game with Judiciary while Judiciary are in for a Chess game.
The way we know Uhuru and Raila expect them to run to court of appeal.
Lets see how it puns out.
We will send the soft boys to exile. let them try. it's over for them. this is it. they cannot bribe the judiciary. we fought moi - and we can fight them
Wow!Wow! The saboteurs of our suckling statehood will need more than burning midnight oil to continue with their arrogance. It can only be a military coup!
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Its over.. they can appeal...but it's 19- NIL. UHuru is going to think retirement. He found the perfect excuse to dump Raila. I really doubt Uhuru and his people are this stupid...this was stupidity designed to failed....Uhuru has perfect excuse to tell Raila to go to BONDO and fish!
Ofcourse you know Raila and ODM will use pregious tactics which they presume worked before. Protests to deligitimize Judiciary. They managed with IEBC , but that was a constituional body , secondly s halt of IEBC can only affect By elections and elections which come by pretiodically.
Judiciary is whole different ball game all together . Its an arm of a Government. Secondly its work is round the clock. Also if dissatisfied , they can also appeal. That process will take ages.
Uhuru and Raila went into checkers game with Judiciary while Judiciary are in for a Chess game.
The way we know Uhuru and Raila expect them to run to court of appeal.
Lets see how it puns out.
We will send the soft boys to exile. let them try. it's over for them. this is it. they cannot bribe the judiciary. we fought moi - and we can fight them
Wow!Wow! The saboteurs of our suckling statehood will need more than burning midnight oil to continue with their arrogance. It can only be a military coup!
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A good start will be to go after the committee members, personally, to refund our monies. These will be kicked under the bus in a jiffy.
ufool has exposed himself to legal consequences in addition to the ballooning political ones - I won't blame kihara for this.
We will send the soft boys to exile. let them try. it's over for them. this is it. they cannot bribe the judiciary. we fought moi - and we can fight them
Wow!Wow! The saboteurs of our suckling statehood will need more than burning midnight oil to continue with their arrogance. It can only be a military coup!
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Kuhara is worst AG - for simple reason - he is friend and family to Uhuru - well JF kennedy brother Roberth Kennedy did better.
Yes I think depending on how they go - kenyans should realize judiciary is an equal arm to gov.
Uhuru has managed to kill other institutions.
Judiciary is our last man.
A good start will be to go after the committee members, personally, to refund our monies. These will be kicked under the bus in a jiffy.
ufool has exposed himself to legal consequences in addition to the ballooning political ones - I won't blame kihara for this.
We will send the soft boys to exile. let them try. it's over for them. this is it. they cannot bribe the judiciary. we fought moi - and we can fight them
Wow!Wow! The saboteurs of our suckling statehood will need more than burning midnight oil to continue with their arrogance. It can only be a military coup!
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Appeals are usually about technicalities. The illegalities here are and have been too glaring only political bragaccidio been wishing it away.
The petitions had avoided outright mention of the ombudsman. You can tell even from body language and speech tones, the judges are tired with the executive madharau. They were going to study abroad as a form of exile not for fun.
Its over.. they can appeal...but it's 19- NIL. UHuru is going to think retirement. He found the perfect excuse to dump Raila. I really doubt Uhuru and his people are this stupid...this was stupidity designed to failed....Uhuru has perfect excuse to tell Raila to go to BONDO and fish!
Ofcourse you know Raila and ODM will use pregious tactics which they presume worked before. Protests to deligitimize Judiciary. They managed with IEBC , but that was a constituional body , secondly s halt of IEBC can only affect By elections and elections which come by pretiodically.
Judiciary is whole different ball game all together . Its an arm of a Government. Secondly its work is round the clock. Also if dissatisfied , they can also appeal. That process will take ages.
Uhuru and Raila went into checkers game with Judiciary while Judiciary are in for a Chess game.
The way we know Uhuru and Raila expect them to run to court of appeal.
Lets see how it puns out.
We will send the soft boys to exile. let them try. it's over for them. this is it. they cannot bribe the judiciary. we fought moi - and we can fight them
Wow!Wow! The saboteurs of our suckling statehood will need more than burning midnight oil to continue with their arrogance. It can only be a military coup!
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UhuruRao will likely not appeal. Waste of time. They will approach the elephant from behind.
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Which elephant. I predict UhuruRao will go seperate ways. Raila will insist on BBI/Handshake. Uhuru hands are washed clean to think about retiriement
UhuruRao will likely not appeal. Waste of time. They will approach the elephant from behind.
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The drafters are already breathing fire saying on National TV need to appeal.
Raila has lots of lawyers with ambition in 2022 electionswho are ready to do Pro-Bono services to bag nomination certificates.
Just go to pre 2017 Aug general elections and see how many petitions Raila and ODM had till the dawn of elections.
UhuruRao will likely not appeal. Waste of time. They will approach the elephant from behind.
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Not my cuppa. Will sit it out and see.
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Ben Sihanya has been forming on his mouth - with his stanford JD - after Harvard Ngugi told him he wasted time. Honestly the guy is an idiot. Kuhara brillance is snitching on other judges.
They go to the oppressed COA - they get 20-NIL - let them be happy with 19-2.
Uhuru working with KUHARA never thought he would need the judiciary.
How do you overturn 19- NILL?????????? It's game over. No return match can help. No appeal can salvage that. You have to score every 4 minutes in 90 minute game. Normally game - 2-0 or 2-1 :)
The drafters are already breathing fire saying on National TV need to appeal.
Raila has lots of lawyers with ambition in 2022 electionswho are ready to do Pro-Bono services to bag nomination certificates.
Just go to pre 2017 Aug general elections and see how many petitions Raila and ODM had till the dawn of elections.
UhuruRao will likely not appeal. Waste of time. They will approach the elephant from behind.