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Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on May 06, 2021, 11:20:47 AM

Title: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: RV Pundit on May 06, 2021, 11:20:47 AM
Uhuru is lameduck - and Kenya has changed - from imperial presidency of his father and godfathers.


https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/national/article/2001411965/reprieve-for-mwaura-omanga-in-jubilee-expulsion-case
President Uhuru Kenyatta yesterday suffered yet another blow after his quest to expel errant party members allied to Deputy President William Ruto was declared illegal by the Political Parties Dispute Tribunal.

The ruling Jubilee Party in February expelled nominated senators Isaac Mwaura, Mary Seneta, Falhada Dekow Iman, Naomi Jillo Waqo, Victor Prengei and Millicent Omanga.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Nefertiti on May 08, 2021, 02:51:19 PM
Tribunal upholds Isaac Mwaura’s expulsion from Jubilee Party
https://nation.africa/kenya/news/politics/tribunal-upholds-isaac-mwaura-s-expulsion-from-jubilee-party--3392204
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: RV Pundit on May 08, 2021, 04:21:52 PM
Still waste of time - coz Mwaura will just go to high court -and it drags on - he just need another six or so months - before Uhuru term is over.
Tribunal upholds Isaac Mwaura’s expulsion from Jubilee Party
https://nation.africa/kenya/news/politics/tribunal-upholds-isaac-mwaura-s-expulsion-from-jubilee-party--3392204
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Nefertiti on May 11, 2021, 06:13:14 PM
 :)

Speaker Lusaka declares Isaac Mwaura's seat vacant
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2021-05-11-speaker-lusaka-declares-isaac-mwauras-seat-vacant/
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Nowayhaha on May 11, 2021, 08:51:07 PM
?s=20
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: RV Pundit on May 12, 2021, 01:26:44 AM
Too much ado about nothing - Mwaura still a senator..
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2021-05-11-reprieve-for-isaac-mwaura-as-court-halts-his-removal-as-senator/
/photo/1
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Kadudu on May 12, 2021, 10:54:02 AM
Kelele mingi. Mwaura already been replaced as per IEBC notice. He can now make noise from outside the Senate.

Jubilee diehards forgot to tame their government to follow the law by the letter. They cheered on as the Jubilee government ignored court orders. Here clearly the government is on the wrong as there are court orders stopping the Senate from expelling Mwaura from the chamber. But as they say, what goes round turns back to bite you.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/national/article/2001412616/isaac-mwaura-replaced-by-sammy-leshore-in-the-senate



Too much ado about nothing - Mwaura still a senator..
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: RV Pundit on May 12, 2021, 11:02:37 AM
He still the senator according to the law. Whatever Jubilee is doing to circumvent the law will hit the dust. Yes nobody should ignore court order otherwise rule of law become the rule of the jungle.

If you have evidence that Mwaura has cheered Jubilee gov to disregard court orders - please let us know.

When some Jubilee hawks like Moses Kuria mouth something - it doesn't mean all Jubilee members believe in it.

Kelele mingi. Mwaura already been replaced as per IEBC notice. He can now make noise from outside the Senate.

Jubilee diehards forgot to tame their government to follow the law by the letter. They cheered on as the Jubilee government ignored court orders. Here clearly the government is on the wrong as there are court orders stopping the Senate from expelling Mwaura from the chamber. But as they say, what goes round turns back to bite you.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/national/article/2001412616/isaac-mwaura-replaced-by-sammy-leshore-in-the-senate



Too much ado about nothing - Mwaura still a senator..
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Pajero on May 12, 2021, 01:02:03 PM
/photo/1
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Nefertiti on May 12, 2021, 01:03:53 PM
/photo/1

 :) Tangatanga needs to respect the law they are parroting. Nominated senator unlike elected has no leeway to be a rebel. His elector is the party.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Pajero on May 12, 2021, 01:12:51 PM
And tommorow,Odunga and company will clear the path to a refrendum,tanga tanga loosing from all sides,even though personally i dont like this bbi THING.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: RV Pundit on May 12, 2021, 01:27:04 PM
That problem - while you think Ruto and his supporters will lose - you are the one losing - by taking Kenya back to Moi era - and worse you're not even getting simple stuff like constituencies.

If Judiciary self-immolate tomorrow - then we will be back to Moi era - and you'll start complain when Ruto become PORK next year.

Actually start crying already.

And tommorow,Odunga and company will clear the path to a refrendum,tanga tanga loosing from all sides,even though personally i dont like this bbi THING.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: RV Pundit on May 12, 2021, 01:28:39 PM
Who is the party? The party that has never held elections, never held NEC and all that; That is not a party worth being respected. Therefore you cannot talk about party discipline in such an outfit - ODM at least tries to have some semblance of order.

As for the law - as it stands now - all these gazettement are null and void - Mwaura obtained a high court injunction. 

:) Tangatanga needs to respect the law they are parroting. Nominated senator unlike elected has no leeway to be a rebel. His elector is the party.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Kadudu on May 12, 2021, 01:31:29 PM
Isaac Mwaura and his fellow ignorants wants to tell us he did not know when campaigning for Uhuru in 2017, the Kenyattas would end up ruling Kenya for 25 years?

/photo/1

Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Kadudu on May 12, 2021, 01:34:42 PM
Pundit, when did court injunctions start countining during the Jubilee regime?
Going by court rulings IEBC has yet to open the servers for the 2017 election results. Let us first start there and also give Miguna Miguna his Kenyan passport back before we start talking about Isaac Mwaura and the senate seat handed to him by the Jubilee Party.

Who is the party? The party that has never held elections, never held NEC and all that; That is not a party worth being respected. Therefore you cannot talk about party discipline in such an outfit - ODM at least tries to have some semblance of order.

As for the law - as it stands now - all these gazettement are null and void - Mwaura obtained a high court injunction. 
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: RV Pundit on May 12, 2021, 01:42:02 PM
Enough of the sour grapes. The aggrieved parties whose court order was not obeyed should go back to court and seek redress. This could include monetary payment. We just paid Matiba 1billion shillings for Moi era trangression. Miguna Miguna will eventually get paid if he sues.
Pundit, when did court injunctions start countining during the Jubilee regime?
Going by court rulings IEBC has yet to open the servers for the 2017 election results. Let us first start there and also give Miguna Miguna his Kenyan passport back before we start talking about Isaac Mwaura and the senate seat handed to him by the Jubilee Party.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Nefertiti on May 12, 2021, 02:33:13 PM
So long as Jubilee Party legally exists Mwaura and all nominated have no option but to toe the line, which goes down the wire to Uhuru's word. Until defection window in April 2022. He can sing UDA like Murkomen. Ruto himself insists he is in Jubilee and "may decide to join UDA" if Jubilee continues to be hostile. He is careful knowing the consequences of giving Uhuru such excuses.

I don't know how this plays out. Lusaka and IEBC acted in concert - few minutes apart. Before the court order. Let us see if the courts can save this fool. Most likely he will be locked out of the Senate until 24th. Expect Lusaka and IEBC to throw the ball into each other's court: none has the power to reverse their own orders.

Or well Mwaura can call Uhuru and denounce Ruto :) - that easier than to do it later like Waititu - once Ruto blocks his calls.

Who is the party? The party that has never held elections, never held NEC and all that; That is not a party worth being respected. Therefore you cannot talk about party discipline in such an outfit - ODM at least tries to have some semblance of order.

As for the law - as it stands now - all these gazettement are null and void - Mwaura obtained a high court injunction. 
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Nefertiti on May 12, 2021, 02:45:14 PM
You make big assumptions about Ruto and the future. Anyway legally you are right but realpolitically you are wrong. Lusaka already ignored court injunctions by Murkomen and Kihika; I doubt this will be different.

That problem - while you think Ruto and his supporters will lose - you are the one losing - by taking Kenya back to Moi era - and worse you're not even getting simple stuff like constituencies.

If Judiciary self-immolate tomorrow - then we will be back to Moi era - and you'll start complain when Ruto become PORK next year.

Actually start crying already.

And tommorow,Odunga and company will clear the path to a refrendum,tanga tanga loosing from all sides,even though personally i dont like this bbi THING.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: RV Pundit on May 12, 2021, 03:08:19 PM
The same way you're also making assumption  about Raila and the future. These people could become PORK and you do not want BBI - with either of them. If uhuru who is politically incompetent - can misuse power now - pray what will Raila or Ruto do- with old constitution basically. It's reason why I personally will oppose BBI to the very end - even if Ruto support it.

We want the rule of law...otherwise if we are hear to just cheer anything...then we are idiots like you and kenyaPlato!

We want a kenyan that we can all be proud of ....coz we are not citizens of US of A and Kenya.

As regard Mukomen - that was not court order - but a tribunal order. All it will take Mwaura is to go back to court....and ask the court to quash the gazette notice.

You make big assumptions about Ruto and the future. Anyway legally you are right but realpolitically you are wrong. Lusaka already ignored court injunctions by Murkomen and Kihika; I doubt this will be different.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Nefertiti on May 12, 2021, 03:17:16 PM
You been crying alot about BBI increase PORK powers. I don't see that but it is a dead-flogged horse. Kenyans wanted BBI structure for years but were sabotaged by MPs. This is democracy at work not dictatorship.

Now about court orders: Uhuru, Lusaka or IEBC should obey them. That is the legal position. Politically we know they have flouted them left and right in the near past - no use for wishful thinking. The 41 judges thing is the most prominent example.

We cannot hate BBI because Uhuru is abusive or incompetent. Future presidents will also make their own choices.

The same way you're also making assumption  about Raila and the future. These people could become PORK and you do not want BBI - with either of them. If uhuru who is politically incompetent - can misuse power now - pray what will Raila or Ruto do.

We want the rule of law...otherwise if we are hear to just cheer anything...then we are idiots like you and kenyaPlato!

We want a kenyan that we can all be proud of ....coz we are not citizens of US of A and Kenya.

As regard Mukomen - that was not court order - but a tribunal order. All it will take Mwaura is to go back to court....and ask the court to quash the gazette notice.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: RV Pundit on May 12, 2021, 03:29:03 PM
Tell what is difference btw old constitution (as amended by NARA act) and BBI. There is absolutely little difference except for devolution.

BBI increase PORK power by killing the other 4 arms of gov. These are BASIC STD 6 CIVIC education.

Any modern democracy requires strong executive, strong parliament, strong judiciary and strong independent commissions/ institutions.

BBI basically makes a mockery of all of them and increase executive power.

1) Parliament - It allows parties to nominate 180 women voting robots and more critically - it now allow the president to appoint politicians into cabinet - while parliament was suppose to vet - and keep executive in check.

2) Judiciary - President (of course coming large senate) will appoint Ombusdman - whose job is basically to officially snitch on judges.

3) Independent  - The police commission is dead - and police commissioner - and of course harambee house will not run the force - without any independent commission.


You been crying alot about BBI increase PORK powers. I don't see that but it is a dead-flogged horse. Kenyans wanted BBI structure for years but were sabotaged by MPs. This is democracy at work not dictatorship.

Now about court orders: Uhuru, Lusaka or IEBC should obey them. That is the legal position. Politically we know they have flouted them left and right in the near past - no use for wishful thinking. The 41 judges thing is the most prominent example.

We cannot hate BBI because Uhuru is abusive or incompetent. Future presidents will also make their own choices.

The same way you're also making assumption  about Raila and the future. These people could become PORK and you do not want BBI - with either of them. If uhuru who is politically incompetent - can misuse power now - pray what will Raila or Ruto do.

We want the rule of law...otherwise if we are hear to just cheer anything...then we are idiots like you and kenyaPlato!

We want a kenyan that we can all be proud of ....coz we are not citizens of US of A and Kenya.

As regard Mukomen - that was not court order - but a tribunal order. All it will take Mwaura is to go back to court....and ask the court to quash the gazette notice.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Nefertiti on May 12, 2021, 04:58:16 PM
Like I said it is a matter of opinion. Uhuru has ignored court orders now under CoK2010. Lusaka and Muturi and MPs rubberstamp his choices. In Jubilee 1, media bill had a perfect split CORD vs Jubilee. MPs don;'t check the executive at all and what we need is accountability in Matiang'i sitting on the front-bench to answer tough questions. Is Matiang'i accountable today? UK, Japan, China and shebang run on this model.

This CoK2010 US model is less accountable than NARA.

Ask yourself: Bomas and CoE Drafts were BBI replica before MPs corrupted them. After years of consultation. Why?
Tell what is difference btw old constitution (as amended by NARA act) and BBI. There is absolutely little difference except for devolution.

BBI increase PORK power by killing the other 4 arms of gov. These are BASIC STD 6 CIVIC education.

Any modern democracy requires strong executive, strong parliament, strong judiciary and strong independent commissions/ institutions.

BBI basically makes a mockery of all of them and increase executive power.

1) Parliament - It allows parties to nominate 180 women voting robots and more critically - it now allow the president to appoint politicians into cabinet - while parliament was suppose to vet - and keep executive in check.


Yes I don't like the JO but it is a small cog in the machine. JO issues snitch reports to JSC and parliament.
2) Judiciary - President (of course coming large senate) will appoint Ombusdman - whose job is basically to officially snitch on judges.


Jubilee 1 already killed police independence by giving PORK power to appoint IG. It was NPSC job before. I also don't buy the argument that the police should be independent of the executive - PORK runs on security manifesto too. You vote him in or out based on the performance. If police abuse you you can go to court or IPOA. Bulk of police work (99%) is non-political. Very few police services in the world are independent. Here in US they report to the Mayor.
3) Independent  - The police commission is dead - and police commissioner - and of course harambee house will not run the force - without any independent commission.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Nefertiti on May 12, 2021, 05:01:27 PM
I only agree with you on JO. The rest are Tangatanga talking points. These guys boycotted BBI throughout but now have a long list of grievances. Wait, oh actually they are "neutral". Total joke.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Nefertiti on May 12, 2021, 05:03:24 PM
Pundit clearly how about your "formless" Ruto save Kenya by leading No, huh? Since BBI is so bad 8)
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: RV Pundit on May 12, 2021, 05:20:35 PM
1) You agree that parties should nominate 1/3 of women to make 2/3 gender rule in NA. You know those nominated MPs are just voting reports like you see in Mwaura case. And that is basically killing parliament as oversight body. In that house - you'll have voting robots - who can be dewhipped and kicked out if they dare go against the "party" line.

Parliament become an expensive DEAD BODY.

2) You agree that separation of executive and parliament should be interefered with - so that constitutionally - we won't  know the difference. I like current ministers being a political. I like the fact that Mps and senators are in parliament knowing they will never make to executive unless they resign. I would hate Mps kissing arse so they can be appointed ministers.

Parliament goes to bed officially with executive - legally.

If you want ministers in parliament - simple make them ex-officio members of parliament - together with AG.

3) Police independence is gone to the winds. We are back to old police. Yes the current police forces like the DPP has surrendered their constitutional independence to Harambee house but in the future...a strong guy can legally take back control.

Finally if something it being abused or not being implemented - then changing the law to make such abuses or difficulties disappear by making them legal IS MORONIC.

It's better to find out how fix the abuses and the lack of implementation.]

It's like saying rape is so hard to proof - let's remove rape as an offence.

I rather we have de-facto situation - not a de-jure one.


I only agree with you on JO. The rest are Tangatanga talking points. These guys boycotted BBI throughout but now have a long list of grievances. Wait, oh actually they are "neutral". Total joke.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: Nefertiti on May 13, 2021, 04:25:27 PM
1/3 women is so well addressed. In the end you may not even need to nominate them. Yours is feigned ignorance.

1. Parties must ensure 1/3 women in primaries
2. Parties fund will consider gender inclusion to determine cash
3. Only top election losers will be nominated not flowergirls - Beth Mugo, Zippy Kittony, Milly Omanga, etc
4. Nominations are capped at 3 terms or 15 years. Not forever

Remember there is Maraga advisory you been cheering while shamelessly opposing BBI. You wanted parliament to be dissolved and cause crisis - just because your god Ruto has been scorned. Who is really the heckler between us?

The rest about separation of power, cops, bla bla... majority of governments worldwide are parliamentary or hybrid. Including your beloved China. Cops report to elected officials even in the US - which is the CoK2010 model you are defending. So save it. I watched Kericho Senator Aaron Cheruiyot vs Moses Kajwang on KTN after the vote. Aaron had long list of "facts" about how BBI is toxic and evil. Then he was asked, "So are you guys opposing BBI?" The fool mumbled incoherent nonsense about priorities like Ruto and you here.

My fren if BBI is so bad, lead the damn No. It should be easy to convince Wanjiku about evil ombudsman. Time to respect the majority.

1) You agree that parties should nominate 1/3 of women to make 2/3 gender rule in NA. You know those nominated MPs are just voting reports like you see in Mwaura case. And that is basically killing parliament as oversight body. In that house - you'll have voting robots - who can be dewhipped and kicked out if they dare go against the "party" line.

Parliament become an expensive DEAD BODY.

2) You agree that separation of executive and parliament should be interefered with - so that constitutionally - we won't  know the difference. I like current ministers being a political. I like the fact that Mps and senators are in parliament knowing they will never make to executive unless they resign. I would hate Mps kissing arse so they can be appointed ministers.

Parliament goes to bed officially with executive - legally.

If you want ministers in parliament - simple make them ex-officio members of parliament - together with AG.

3) Police independence is gone to the winds. We are back to old police. Yes the current police forces like the DPP has surrendered their constitutional independence to Harambee house but in the future...a strong guy can legally take back control.

Finally if something it being abused or not being implemented - then changing the law to make such abuses or difficulties disappear by making them legal IS MORONIC.

It's better to find out how fix the abuses and the lack of implementation.]

It's like saying rape is so hard to proof - let's remove rape as an offence.

I rather we have de-facto situation - not a de-jure one.


I only agree with you on JO. The rest are Tangatanga talking points. These guys boycotted BBI throughout but now have a long list of grievances. Wait, oh actually they are "neutral". Total joke.
Title: Re: Jubilee fails to expel senators or UDA
Post by: RV Pundit on May 13, 2021, 04:31:18 PM
Okay - reality is nominated is nominated; they are voting robots;
What crisis when happens when parliament is dissolved; it simply mean we go for national elections of Mp; this can happen in 3 months;
1/3 women is so well addressed. In the end you may not even need to nominate them. Yours is feigned ignorance.

1. Parties must ensure 1/3 women in primaries
2. Parties fund will consider gender inclusion to determine cash
3. Only top election losers will be nominated not flowergirls - Beth Mugo, Zippy Kittony, Milly Omanga, etc
4. Nominations are capped at 3 terms or 15 years. Not forever

Remember there is Maraga advisory you been cheering while shamelessly opposing BBI. You wanted parliament to be dissolved and cause crisis - just because your god Ruto has been scorned. Who is really the heckler between us?

The rest about separation of power, cops, bla bla... majority of governments worldwide are parliamentary or hybrid. Including your beloved China. Cops report to elected officials even in the US - which is the CoK2010 model you are defending. So save it. I watched Kericho Senator Aaron Cheruiyot vs Moses Kajwang on KTN after the vote. Aaron had long list of "facts" about how BBI is toxic and evil. Then he was asked, "So are you guys opposing BBI?" The fool mumbled incoherent nonsense about priorities like Ruto and you here.

My fren if BBI is so bad, lead the damn No. It should be easy to convince Wanjiku about evil ombudsman. Time to respect the majority.

1) You agree that parties should nominate 1/3 of women to make 2/3 gender rule in NA. You know those nominated MPs are just voting reports like you see in Mwaura case. And that is basically killing parliament as oversight body. In that house - you'll have voting robots - who can be dewhipped and kicked out if they dare go against the "party" line.

Parliament become an expensive DEAD BODY.

2) You agree that separation of executive and parliament should be interefered with - so that constitutionally - we won't  know the difference. I like current ministers being a political. I like the fact that Mps and senators are in parliament knowing they will never make to executive unless they resign. I would hate Mps kissing arse so they can be appointed ministers.

Parliament goes to bed officially with executive - legally.

If you want ministers in parliament - simple make them ex-officio members of parliament - together with AG.

3) Police independence is gone to the winds. We are back to old police. Yes the current police forces like the DPP has surrendered their constitutional independence to Harambee house but in the future...a strong guy can legally take back control.

Finally if something it being abused or not being implemented - then changing the law to make such abuses or difficulties disappear by making them legal IS MORONIC.

It's better to find out how fix the abuses and the lack of implementation.]

It's like saying rape is so hard to proof - let's remove rape as an offence.

I rather we have de-facto situation - not a de-jure one.


I only agree with you on JO. The rest are Tangatanga talking points. These guys boycotted BBI throughout but now have a long list of grievances. Wait, oh actually they are "neutral". Total joke.