Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: KenyanPlato on January 28, 2021, 02:00:03 AM
-
Interesting. One thing to note is that Kenyatta never imposed himself on his people. It is unfortunate that his legacy is seen mostly from his land grabbing excesses but all in all he seems to have been a patriot.
I have talked to people who worked close to him or knew him on personal level and they say his commitment to the people was above reproach. Politics is dirty and in that at the end of day you are remembered more for the politics and not the leadership you offered. Kenyatta seems to have been a moderate at a time when most kikuyus had given up on resolving the conflict with whites peacefully
Anyway he played his role. Nice to see a video from this time and actually here the leaders of the time speak.
-
Nope. He was a vicious Okuyu chauvinist who laid the foundations for all the ills in this country --> negative ethnicity, repression, looting of public coffers, land grabbing, kleptocratic oligarchy, Luo marginalization, pettiness. It all started with him. His malign influence is with us today in the form of his son Uhuru.
Ironically it took Moi to meld a Kenyan nation of different ethnic tribes. All Kabilas were represented in his government unlike Kenyatta's which was purely a Kikuyu affair.
-
Precisely. Moi really tried to unite a country that Jomo Kenyatta had torn apart - by his obvious kikuyuism. The man could address kenyans in Kikuyu just like Uhuru.
Nope. He was a vicious Okuyu chauvinist who laid the foundations for all the ills in this country --> negative ethnicity, repression, looting of public coffers, land grabbing, kleptocratic oligarchy, Luo marginalization, pettiness. It all started with him. His malign influence is with us today in the form of his son Uhuru.
Ironically it took Moi to meld a Kenyan nation of different ethnic tribes. All Kabilas were represented in his government unlike Kenyatta's which was purely a Kikuyu affair.
-
That is one area where we have to give Moi some credit. He made other people feel part of the government. Before him, it was a total Kikuyu affair.
President - Kikuyu
Minister of Foreign Affairs - Kikuyu
Minister of Finance - Kikuyu
Minister of Defence - kikuyu
Minister of State Office of the President - Kikuyu
Head of Public Service - Kikuyu
Governor of Central Bank - Kikuyu
Head of CID - Kikuyu
Police Commissioner - Kikuyu
All state banks CEOs - Kikuyu
More than half of the cabinet was GEMA
Almost all PSs were GEMA
Pundit, the support for Ruto in Mt Kenya does not have to do with love for him as a person. It is political strategy. GEMA cannot see itself out of power for more than 10 years. It is Kalejin 2022-2032 and then they will be back. The plan will backfire since that coalition will not hold 10 years. Who can even garanty that Ruto will leave that seat in 2032? He will still be a "young" man. :D :D :D
Precisely. Moi really tried to unite a country that Jomo Kenyatta had torn apart - by his obvious kikuyuism. The man could address kenyans in Kikuyu just like Uhuru.
-
Yes, Moi enjoyed national support and started messing up when he also started kalenjinzation post 1982. The coup had convinced Moi to only trust his fellow tugen. The Kikuyu dominated airforce commanders had allowed Luo privates to stage a coup. Moi therefore began to rebuilding kenya in his own image- kicking out Luos and Kikuyus - and bringing small tribes.
As for Ruto and GEMA - it's half of is love (Ruto is good hardworking man) and half of it hostage crisis (rv diaspora 2007) - large part Ruto has made it happen (by weakening gema competitors and working on Plan B - you only deal with gema if you're near equal) - gema were de-horned by 2007 pev because they had PORK and all arms of gov - and yet it took Kofi Annan to save kenya - and their arrogance I believe has disappeared.
They now know a gov cannot really help you much - it better it stays the fu.ck out of the way.
Kikuyus now want to be part of kenya.
DPORK/Deputy Governor is good deal - somebody could die - and you go in - Moi style.
That is one area where we have to give Moi some credit. He made other people feel part of the government. Before him, it was a total Kikuyu affair.
President - Kikuyu
Minister of Foreign Affairs - Kikuyu
Minister of Finance - Kikuyu
Minister of Defence - kikuyu
Minister of State Office of the President - Kikuyu
Head of Public Service - Kikuyu
Governor of Central Bank - Kikuyu
Head of CID - Kikuyu
Police Commissioner - Kikuyu
All state banks CEOs - Kikuyu
More than half of the cabinet was GEMA
Almost all PSs were GEMA
Pundit, the support for Ruto in Mt Kenya does not have to do with love for him as a person. It is political strategy. GEMA cannot see itself out of power for more than 10 years. It is Kalejin 2022-2032 and then they will be back. The plan will backfire since that coalition will not hold 10 years. Who can even garanty that Ruto will leave that seat in 2032? He will still be a "young" man. :D :D :D
Precisely. Moi really tried to unite a country that Jomo Kenyatta had torn apart - by his obvious kikuyuism. The man could address kenyans in Kikuyu just like Uhuru.
-
Yes Kenyatta was 100% tribalist but you can't blame him his vision was modelled along what he saw as the real citizens of the country that fought for independence. He had his good sides however Moi really tried to give other kabilas a chance but he was very poor economy wise.
-
What nonsense is this? Is your fighting for independence only limited to the Mau Mau?
One thing is for sure, Kenyatta was not on the side of Mau Mau. That is why the organistion remained banned till Mwai Kibaki became president. Kenyatta surrounded himself with homeguards like Koinange, Michuki, Mahihu etc who were all involved with the British in their fight against the Mau Mau.
So your assumption is wrong. Kenyatta was a tribalist by choice driven by his greed for wealth and land.
Yes Kenyatta was 100% tribalist but you can't blame him his vision was modelled along what he saw as the real citizens of the country that fought for independence. He had his good sides however Moi really tried to give other kabilas a chance but he was very poor economy wise.
-
Kadudu , Arc , self confirmed Luos as still bitter with Kenyatta falling out with Jaramogi. I bet this bitterness aha been passed from pregious generations. But on the other hand they want Mt Kenya to support them in BBI and 2022 elections.
Get over 1966 bitterness , take a leaf from RV and Mt Kenya who have learnt from History and decided to move on.
-
Nowayhaha, self confessed tribalist get over the notion everyone not for your tribal tendercies is a Luo.
I have stated facts and kindly do us and yourself a favour and reply with facts.
Kadudu , Arc , self confirmed Luos as still bitter with Kenyatta falling out with Jaramogi. I bet this bitterness aha been passed from pregious generations. But on the other hand they want Mt Kenya to support them in BBI and 2022 elections.
Get over 1966 bitterness , take a leaf from RV and Mt Kenya who have learnt from History and decided to move on.
-
Which facts ? Kenyatta was jailed because he sent a coded word to Mau Mau to go "underground" like Roots.
Koinange was jailed for several years for Organizing Mau Mau meetings.
These are hard facts
Nowayhaha, self confessed tribalist get over the notion everyone not for your tribal tendercies is a Luo.
I have stated facts and kindly do us and yourself a favour and reply with facts.
Kadudu , Arc , self confirmed Luos as still bitter with Kenyatta falling out with Jaramogi. I bet this bitterness aha been passed from pregious generations. But on the other hand they want Mt Kenya to support them in BBI and 2022 elections.
Get over 1966 bitterness , take a leaf from RV and Mt Kenya who have learnt from History and decided to move on.
-
Although Mau Mau never won a decisive war against the British - their war of attrition certainly helped prevent Zimbwabwe in Kenya - where white settlers would have gone rogue - and disobeyed Britian. Britain was committed to ending coloniliasm first because it was unpopular, mostly a drain on exchequer, and after war - british depended on US - and one condition for Marshal plan was for Europe to give up colonies.
Now what did Kikuyu feel in 1960s - including Jomo. They felt they had contributed more than anyone - in blood and suffering - and that indeed is true. Jomo himself was jailed for 7yrs. Many kikuyus suffered - and post independence - they felt entitled to state largesse having contributed their blood.
-
Why did Kenyatta end up with people like Michuki ‘General Kimendero’ who were refuted for killing Mau Mau fighters? Michuki had to live low most of his life as he feared the revenge of the people he made suffer during the colonial days. Mau Mau even ended up being a fight between the Kikuyu among themselves as the freedom fighters fought the collaborators.
My message is, it was not only the Mau Mau who fought for Kenya's independence. There were many trade unionists in towns who were also jailed by the British for agitating for freedom of the African people. Fighting against colonilaism was not only limited to physical fighting.
Which facts ? Kenyatta was jailed because he sent a coded word to Mau Mau to go "underground" like Roots.
Koinange was jailed for several years for Organizing Mau Mau meetings.
These are hard facts
-
Just be open and say you are a Luo apologist, We will understand
Now youve shifted the focus from Kenyatta and Koinange senior to Michuki
How was Michuki laying low when he was Finance P.S. ,K.C.B. Chairman longserving M.P. and Minister. Please do away with 2007 O.D.M. propaganda.
For the period Michuki served as as Minister he was the best performing Minister .
Another Fact , Michuki brought Uhuru to P.N.U. and saved his political career. Michuki okayed Uhuru to become Finance Minister where he made his fortune and Thirdly Michuki single handedly mentored Uhuru and made him Mt Kenya Kingpin. Thats too little for a man who was laying low like an envelope according to you
quote author=Kadudu link=topic=9580.msg86688#msg86688 date=1611848873]
Why did Kenyatta end up with people like Michuki ‘General Kimendero’ who were refuted for killing Mau Mau fighters? Michuki had to live low most of his life as he feared the revenge of the people he made suffer during the colonial days. Mau Mau even ended up being a fight between the Kikuyu among themselves as the freedom fighters fought the collaborators.
My message is, it was not only the Mau Mau who fought for Kenya's independence. There were many trade unionists in towns who were also jailed by the British for agitating for freedom of the African people. Fighting against colonilaism was not only limited to physical fighting.
Which facts ? Kenyatta was jailed because he sent a coded word to Mau Mau to go "underground" like Roots.
Koinange was jailed for several years for Organizing Mau Mau meetings.
These are hard facts
[/quote]
-
What is thing you have with people's ethnicity? Is it a crime being a Luo. I do not care what you and only interested in your arguements. Grow up and learn to leave people's ethnicity out of your life. It seems you left the village but the village still lives fresh in you.
Michuki was deeply involved in the killing of Mau Mau fighters. Is that right or wrong? More Kikuyus were killed by Mau Mau than were killed by British colonialists.
Just be open and say you are a Luo apologist, We will understand
Now youve shifted the focus from Kenyatta and Koinange senior to Michuki
How was Michuki laying low when he was Finance P.S. ,K.C.B. Chairman longserving M.P. and Minister. Please do away with 2007 O.D.M. propaganda.
For the period Michuki served as as Minister he was the best performing Minister .
Another Fact , Michuki brought Uhuru to P.N.U. and saved his political career. Michuki okayed Uhuru to become Finance Minister where he made his fortune and Thirdly Michuki single handedly mentored Uhuru and made him Mt Kenya Kingpin. Thats too little for a man who was laying low like an envelope according to you
-
Nowayhaha is a clown, ati Luo apologist?? WTF is that?
-
Interesting. One thing to note is that Kenyatta never imposed himself on his people. It is unfortunate that his legacy is seen mostly from his land grabbing excesses but all in all he seems to have been a patriot.
I have talked to people who worked close to him or knew him on personal level and they say his commitment to the people was above reproach. Politics is dirty and in that at the end of day you are remembered more for the politics and not the leadership you offered. Kenyatta seems to have been a moderate at a time when most kikuyus had given up on resolving the conflict with whites peacefully
Anyway he played his role. Nice to see a video from this time and actually here the leaders of the time speak.
Where can I get the music(or even the singers) at the end? Starting at https://youtu.be/-9i56fpNntk?t=3007 (https://youtu.be/-9i56fpNntk?t=3007)
-
Nowayhaha is a clown, ati Luo apologist?? WTF is that?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apologist
Definition of apologist
: one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something
Examples of apologist in a Sentence
Recent Examples on the WebOn the Trump-apologist right, the suspension was denounced as Orwellian tyranny, deep-state collusion, or worse
-
Seems mzungu and Kenyatta sold the lie that Mau Mau would remain in the forest in case Jaramogi became head of government. Rational, maybe naive Jaramogi swallowed it fully.
-
But how would Jaramogi become PORK when James Gichuru was the Chairman of KANU. It would have been the drunkard James Gichuru.
Seems mzungu and Kenyatta sold the lie that Mau Mau would remain in the forest in case Jaramogi became head of government. Rational, maybe naive Jaramogi swallowed it fully.
-
Perhaps the same way ODMers Think Uhuru and System will handover them the presidency to Raila in 2022
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_Kenyan_general_election
The 1963 Kenyan general election was held in Kenya Colony between 18 and 26 May 1963. Voters elected members of the House of Representatives and Senate. The election was the last before independence later in the year.
The result was a victory for the Kenya African National Union (KANU), which won 83 of the 124 seats in the House of Representatives and 18 of the 38 seats in the Senate. Five seats in the House and three in the Senate remained unfilled due to a secessionist conflict on the border with Somalia.
But how would Jaramogi become PORK when James Gichuru was the Chairman of KANU. It would have been the drunkard James Gichuru.
Seems mzungu and Kenyatta sold the lie that Mau Mau would remain in the forest in case Jaramogi became head of government. Rational, maybe naive Jaramogi swallowed it fully.
-
This Luo lie. Kikuyu had always a caretaker chairman of KANU to take care of Kenyatta and Kikuyu interest. Jaramogi never stepped down or refused to become PM. He had no say. Kikuyus were the major partner and KANU was their party Harry Thuku was the caretaker - and later James Gichuru. Those are people who refused to form gov until Jomo was out. Jomo had been elected Chair as absentia and James Gichuru became the caretaker...and resigned as soon as Jomo was out and he became chair.
Perhaps the same way ODMers Think Uhuru and System will handover them the presidency to Raila in 2022
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_Kenyan_general_election
The 1963 Kenyan general election was held in Kenya Colony between 18 and 26 May 1963. Voters elected members of the House of Representatives and Senate. The election was the last before independence later in the year.
The result was a victory for the Kenya African National Union (KANU), which won 83 of the 124 seats in the House of Representatives and 18 of the 38 seats in the Senate. Five seats in the House and three in the Senate remained unfilled due to a secessionist conflict on the border with Somalia.
But how would Jaramogi become PORK when James Gichuru was the Chairman of KANU. It would have been the drunkard James Gichuru.
Seems mzungu and Kenyatta sold the lie that Mau Mau would remain in the forest in case Jaramogi became head of government. Rational, maybe naive Jaramogi swallowed it fully.
-
Pre Internet times one would by such type of lies , but with information readily available .Its a matter of a click and you get the information you need .
Colonialists actually were pro KADU to safeguard their own selfish interests . They mistrusted K.A.N.U. Below is how K.A.N.U was formed and how Settlers joined forces with K.A.D.U to fight K.A.N.U.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya_African_National_Union
On 14 May 1960 KAU having been resurrected by James Gichuru merged with Tom Mboya's Kenya Independence Movement and the Nairobi People's Convention Party to form the Kenya African National Union (KANU) with Tom Mboya as its first secretary general and James Gichuru as KANU chairman. Oginga Odinga was the KANU first vice chairman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya_African_Democratic_Union
The Kenya African Democratic Union (KADU) was a political party in Kenya. It was founded in 1960 when several leading politicians refused to join Jomo Kenyatta's Kenya African National Union (KANU). It was led by Ronald Ngala who was joined by Moi's Kalenjin Political Alliance, the Masai United Front, the Kenya African Peoples Party, the Coast African Political Union,Masinde Muliro's Baluhya Political Union and the Somali National Front.[1] The separate tribal organisations were to retain their identity and so, from the very start, KADU based its political approach on tribalism.[2] KADU's aim was to defend the interests of the so-called KAMATUSA (an acronym for Kalenjin, Maasai, Turkana and Samburu ethnic groups) as well as the British settlers, against the imagined future dominance of the larger Luo and Kikuyu that comprised the majority of KANU's membership, when it became inevitable that Kenya will achieve its independence.[3] The KADU objective was to work towards a multiracial self government within the existing colonial political system.[1] After release of Jomo Kenyatta,KADU was becoming increasingly popular with European settlers and, on the whole, repudiated Kenyatta's leadership.[4] KADU's plan at Lancaster meetings was devised by European supporters, essentially to protect prevailing British settlers land rights.[4]
The colonial authorities instead promoted the idea of regional moderate tribal political parties all over the country other than in central Kenya where the political party ban remained until 1960.Regional moderate 'kingpins' subsequently emerged with their regional political parties. These included Daniel Moi, Masinde Muliro and Ronald Ngala. Majority of these regional leaders had been elected to the LegCo in 1957 general elections. Ronald Ngala brought all these regional outfits together to form KADU when Jomo Kenyatta was released from prison in 1961 and made the president of the newly formed KANU[7]
KADU lost to KANU in the first general elections in Kenya in 1963, where it had campaigned on a platform of Majimboism, multiracial nation with white minority rule under the principles established in the Lyttelton Constitution of 1954
This Luo lie. Kikuyu had always a caretaker chairman of KANU to take care of Kenyatta and Kikuyu interest. Jaramogi never stepped down or refused to become PM. He had no say. Kikuyus were the major partner and KANU was their party Harry Thuku was the caretaker - and later James Gichuru. Those are people who refused to form gov until Jomo was out. Jomo had been elected Chair as absentia and James Gichuru became the caretaker...and resigned as soon as Jomo was out and he became chair.
Perhaps the same way ODMers Think Uhuru and System will handover them the presidency to Raila in 2022
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_Kenyan_general_election
The 1963 Kenyan general election was held in Kenya Colony between 18 and 26 May 1963. Voters elected members of the House of Representatives and Senate. The election was the last before independence later in the year.
The result was a victory for the Kenya African National Union (KANU), which won 83 of the 124 seats in the House of Representatives and 18 of the 38 seats in the Senate. Five seats in the House and three in the Senate remained unfilled due to a secessionist conflict on the border with Somalia.
But how would Jaramogi become PORK when James Gichuru was the Chairman of KANU. It would have been the drunkard James Gichuru.
Seems mzungu and Kenyatta sold the lie that Mau Mau would remain in the forest in case Jaramogi became head of government. Rational, maybe naive Jaramogi swallowed it fully.
-
KADU lost to KANU in the first general elections in Kenya in 1963, where it had campaigned on a platform of Majimboism, multiracial nation with white minority rule under the principles established in the Lyttelton Constitution of 1954
That is false.
The election under Lancaster constitution was held in 1960 - I think - KANU won - but refused to form gov.
KADU and small parties formed coalition - and joined gov. Moi became a Minister of Education in 1961-62 and later Minister of Local Government 1962-64.
Later in 1963 - Jomo Kenyatta was released - and another election - KANU won and had enough numbers to form a gov without a coalition.
Pre Internet times one would by such type of lies , but with information readily available .Its a matter of a click and you get the information you need .
Colonialists actually were pro KADU to safeguard their own selfish interests . They mistrusted K.A.N.U. Below is how K.A.N.U was formed and how Settlers joined forces with K.A.D.U to fight K.A.N.U.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya_African_National_Union
On 14 May 1960 KAU having been resurrected by James Gichuru merged with Tom Mboya's Kenya Independence Movement and the Nairobi People's Convention Party to form the Kenya African National Union (KANU) with Tom Mboya as its first secretary general and James Gichuru as KANU chairman. Oginga Odinga was the KANU first vice chairman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya_African_Democratic_Union
The Kenya African Democratic Union (KADU) was a political party in Kenya. It was founded in 1960 when several leading politicians refused to join Jomo Kenyatta's Kenya African National Union (KANU). It was led by Ronald Ngala who was joined by Moi's Kalenjin Political Alliance, the Masai United Front, the Kenya African Peoples Party, the Coast African Political Union,Masinde Muliro's Baluhya Political Union and the Somali National Front.[1] The separate tribal organisations were to retain their identity and so, from the very start, KADU based its political approach on tribalism.[2] KADU's aim was to defend the interests of the so-called KAMATUSA (an acronym for Kalenjin, Maasai, Turkana and Samburu ethnic groups) as well as the British settlers, against the imagined future dominance of the larger Luo and Kikuyu that comprised the majority of KANU's membership, when it became inevitable that Kenya will achieve its independence.[3] The KADU objective was to work towards a multiracial self government within the existing colonial political system.[1] After release of Jomo Kenyatta,KADU was becoming increasingly popular with European settlers and, on the whole, repudiated Kenyatta's leadership.[4] KADU's plan at Lancaster meetings was devised by European supporters, essentially to protect prevailing British settlers land rights.[4]
The colonial authorities instead promoted the idea of regional moderate tribal political parties all over the country other than in central Kenya where the political party ban remained until 1960.Regional moderate 'kingpins' subsequently emerged with their regional political parties. These included Daniel Moi, Masinde Muliro and Ronald Ngala. Majority of these regional leaders had been elected to the LegCo in 1957 general elections. Ronald Ngala brought all these regional outfits together to form KADU when Jomo Kenyatta was released from prison in 1961 and made the president of the newly formed KANU[7]
KADU lost to KANU in the first general elections in Kenya in 1963, where it had campaigned on a platform of Majimboism, multiracial nation with white minority rule under the principles established in the Lyttelton Constitution of 1954
This Luo lie. Kikuyu had always a caretaker chairman of KANU to take care of Kenyatta and Kikuyu interest. Jaramogi never stepped down or refused to become PM. He had no say. Kikuyus were the major partner and KANU was their party Harry Thuku was the caretaker - and later James Gichuru. Those are people who refused to form gov until Jomo was out. Jomo had been elected Chair as absentia and James Gichuru became the caretaker...and resigned as soon as Jomo was out and he became chair.
Perhaps the same way ODMers Think Uhuru and System will handover them the presidency to Raila in 2022
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_Kenyan_general_election
The 1963 Kenyan general election was held in Kenya Colony between 18 and 26 May 1963. Voters elected members of the House of Representatives and Senate. The election was the last before independence later in the year.
The result was a victory for the Kenya African National Union (KANU), which won 83 of the 124 seats in the House of Representatives and 18 of the 38 seats in the Senate. Five seats in the House and three in the Senate remained unfilled due to a secessionist conflict on the border with Somalia.
But how would Jaramogi become PORK when James Gichuru was the Chairman of KANU. It would have been the drunkard James Gichuru.
Seems mzungu and Kenyatta sold the lie that Mau Mau would remain in the forest in case Jaramogi became head of government. Rational, maybe naive Jaramogi swallowed it fully.