Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Kirgit on September 16, 2020, 11:46:50 PM
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The so-called opening of higher education to substandard students is beginning to unravel.
The students from poor background are finding it taugh to compete with well connected, well off graduates from private schools
Before Kibaki error, C, D, E pupils had to go overseas to get education since there were no backdoor to buy degrees.
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Jubilee did well to undo Kibaki university enrollment.
We do not have enough white collar jobs for graduates
We really need to change from academic to vocational training.
In class 8 - 3/4 of students - who fails academic - should be directed to study juakali sector - and start that early.
1/4 should proceed to high schoo - 3/4 to polythenics - they should pick a skill( masonery, welding, hair dressing, cooking) - and be taught - and by age of 16-18yrs - they would be employable or self-employable - and will only proceed to higher education for really high skills.
The 1/4 after high school - we should have very small set - going to university/
Rest should proceed to diploma and higher diploma.
We have to be realistic...but parents and gov don't want to face their poor academically performing kids - and direct them elsewhere.
Countries like German, Switzerland, Finland..do this.
But first do away with boarding schools - then adopt this system - CBC is right direction.
No need for exams. No need for long hours unless you're choosing academic track. If you're practically inclined - spend your time learning practical things.
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Jubilee did well to undo Kibaki university enrollment.
We do not have enough white collar jobs for graduates
We really need to change from academic to vocational training.
In class 8 - 3/4 of students - who fails academic - should be directed to study juakali sector - and start that early.
1/4 should proceed to high schoo - 3/4 to polythenics - they should pick a skill( masonery, welding, hair dressing, cooking) - and be taught - and by age of 16-18yrs - they would be employable or self-employable - and will only proceed to higher education for really high skills.
The 1/4 after high school - we should have very small set - going to university/
Rest should proceed to diploma and higher diploma.
We have to be realistic...but parents and gov don't want to face their poor academically performing kids - and direct them elsewhere.
Countries like German, Switzerland, Finland..do this.
But first do away with boarding schools - then adopt this system - CBC is right direction.
No need for exams. No need for long hours unless you're choosing academic track. If you're practically inclined - spend your time learning practical things.
I think that is part of the problem. Trade skills are generally associated with failing school. There should be a way to get kids out of high-school without a national examination from which some are taken to college according to some hierarchy.
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It is not gonna happen. Kenyan parent or parents anywhere wont allow..the thing is to modernize the economu to generate jobs...do you know if kenyatta had listened only few kenyans would have high school diploma. An educated population is better. Let people get degrees ..they will innovate even if they go to informal sector
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It is not gonna happen. Kenyan parent or parents anywhere wont allow..the thing is to modernize the economu to generate jobs...do you know if kenyatta had listened only few kenyans would have high school diploma. An educated population is better. Let people get degrees ..they will innovate even if they go to informal sector
Educated in what? Useless theory and no practical application. There are NO jobs to be had in this failed mafia state. Most of these graduates have no skills apart from vyeti from questionable universities, it is recipe for poverty. Reality has caught up with many parents as their adult kids still can't support themselves and leave home despite finishing university. The mantra of higher education = life success is really starting to sound hollow. So many people are disillusioned with the traditional 4 year degree and its loans here in the US they are exploring other options such vocational training which pays higher right out of graduation. I have advised two young relatives not to go to college this year. Accounting has mastered it with the CPA certificate, no need to waste your time and money, if you are good enough sit for the exam, you pass you are free to practice. IT certifications are huge thing now. Google is piloting something too:
Google recently made a huge announcement that could change the future of work and higher education: It's launching a selection of professional courses that teach candidates how to perform in-demand jobs.
These courses, which the company is calling Google Career Certificates, teach foundational skills that can help job-seekers immediately find employment. However, instead of taking years to finish like a traditional university degree, these courses are designed to be completed in about six months.
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education is no Job skills center but it primary goal is knowledge accussation.. Capitalism has bastardized education in a way that everyone goes to school expecting to come out with a job skills.. for job training go to a vocational school. what we need to change is the notion that you are getting educated to get a job.. you are getting educated to be knowledgeable and it is easier to train someone educated to be an accountant, a technician than to train someone with very little education.. An educated mason will make better decisions and be able to solve problems as they emerge. You can see that Kenya are now more dyamic. Even in farming they are able to adapt and do it commercially better than our parents who had little knowledge..
What we need in Kenya is bring the American culture where any work is seen as dignified.. A dollar earned by security guard is the same dollar earned by doctor..
The guy driving a taxi on that show will eventually find his way.. He can now easily move to another field or market..
The whole nonsense of that only certain group of people deserve to have degrees is nonsense.. if possible everyone should get as much education as they can and then figure out what to do with that education
by the way do you know Universities like Havard never enroll bachelor degree students in programs like accounting or IT.. they make clear that their university is not job skills center but an knowledge accusation institution and the broad the knowledge the better
The google certificate thing is a FAD that will eventually die off.. 22 years ago eveyone was getting microsoft certification and getting gigs paying well then the market for that skill dried up.. many kenyans get hurt by that as they had all quit school to go work with those certificates.. one jamaa had a well paying job and as soon as dot,com bubble hit he lost everything house, wife (was one of the gold diggers) he got so depressed he never dug himself of the funk.. because microsoft had misled him that they had a job for him.. his dream was made.. this mentality is really rotten.. I see a lot of brilliant people here in US ending up in careers that are really not what they want just because they think of education as job skills center..
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AD
education is no Job skills center but it primary goal is knowledge accussation.. Capitalism has bastardized education in a way that everyone goes to school expecting to come out with a job skills.. for job training go to a vocational school. what we need to change is the notion that you are getting educated to get a job.. you are getting educated to be knowledgeable and it is easier to train someone educated to be an accountant, a technician than to train someone with very little education.. An educated mason will make better decisions and be able to solve problems as they emerge. You can see that Kenya are now more dyamic. Even in farming they are able to adapt and do it commercially better than our parents who had little knowledge..
What we need in Kenya is bring the American culture where any work is seen as dignified.. A dollar earned by security guard is the same dollar earned by doctor..
The guy driving a taxi on that show will eventually find his way.. He can now easily move to another field or market..
The whole nonsense of that only certain group of people deserve to have degrees is nonsense.. if possible everyone should get as much education as they can and then figure out what to do with that education
by the way do you know Universities like Havard never enroll bachelor degree students in programs like accounting or IT.. they make clear that their university is not job skills center but an knowledge accusation institution and the broad the knowledge the better
The google certificate thing is a FAD that will eventually die off.. 22 years ago eveyone was getting microsoft certification and getting gigs paying well then the market for that skill dried up.. many kenyans get hurt by that as they had all quit school to go work with those certificates.. one jamaa had a well paying job and as soon as dot,com bubble hit he lost everything house, wife (was one of the gold diggers) he got so depressed he never dug himself of the funk.. because microsoft had misled him that they had a job for him.. his dream was made.. this mentality is really rotten.. I see a lot of brilliant people here in US ending up in careers that are really not what they want just because they think of education as job skills center..
Liberal arts education is what you are trying to get at KP when you speak of knowledge acquisition. You don't need a college degree for that. I full agree the role of universities is deeper than job training but we have to be real most of the these poor parents paying their kids through college expect their offspring to land salaried positions as result of their investment. Resources and time are scarce.
Education is not for everyone, that is fallacy.
Germany does vocational training and isn't worse for it employment wise, America by contrast has an issue with graduates finding employment. Even France has brought back its own form of vocational training -- Compagnons du devoir.
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Education is for everyone who can be able. If we cannot give an education opportunity to 10% of population that has ability we miss the point. A poor kid actually needs better education than they need a job. A job will just take them back to the poverty they were trying to escape. Asking a smart kid to go get a skill so that they can get a job as means to the end is just wrong. The kid should go to university and study then after that they can get a skill to enable them to land a job that will give them an ability to find their way into being able to utilize the degree.. Germany and those other countries have very established economies that already have a market for technical skills..Kenya just needs to create an environment that will allow the 10% to thrive and be leaders that will create the technical jobs.. Kenya economy is what is wrong with the job market.. you fix that everything fixes itself.. as of now educate educate
Actually I asked Dr Ndii about BPO and its viability in Kenya.he told me that Kenya graduates have jobs it is only that we have a lot of anecdote stories of this and that unemployed graduate but he told me that the people that suffer great unemployment are high school dropouts and those with high school diplomas.. He believes you can solve unemployment of that group by investing in agricultural productivity. His point is that Kenyan graduates by large end up in employment one way of the other
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Education is for everyone who can be able. If we cannot give an education opportunity to 10% of population that has ability we miss the point. A poor kid actually needs better education than they need a job. A job will just take them back to the poverty they were trying to escape. Asking a smart kid to go get a skill so that they can get a job as means to the end is just wrong. The kid should go to university and study then after that they can get a skill to enable them to land a job that will give them an ability to find their way into being able to utilize the degree.. Germany and those other countries have very established economies that already have a market for technical skills..Kenya just needs to create an environment that will allow the 10% to thrive and be leaders that will create the technical jobs.. Kenya economy is what is wrong with the job market.. you fix that everything fixes itself.. as of now educate educate
Actually I asked Dr Ndii about BPO and its viability in Kenya.he told me that Kenya graduates have jobs it is only that we have a lot of anecdote stories of this and that unemployed graduate but he told me that the people that suffer great unemployment are high school dropouts and those with high school diplomas.. He believes you can solve unemployment of that group by investing in agricultural productivity. His point is that Kenyan graduates by large end up in employment one way of the other
You seem to have great faith in so called education. For me the jury is still out, it's utility is overplayed. And then not all education is equal. In local universities you have to account for substandard pedagogy, outdated syllabi, foreign language instruction ( English is not our tongue). How about folks who aren't intellectual by nature and just want to get a skill for employment?
This guy is reiterating what you are saying exactly btw:
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Most jobs don't require that much knowledge and so kids should have a choice to make when they about 14yrs or going to high schools where to focus on..vocational or academic.We should not mix the two.For kenya polytechnic have bad reputation as place for academic failures...Ndemo suggested we call them universities or affiliated them one...so parents can take their kids there.If you are trained in one thing..you can always go back and get latest FAD.Ultimately bulk of jobs will come from SMEs..which are mostly self employed one or two man operations.There are plenty of jobs...we just export it by importing goods worth nearly 20B dollars every year...because we cannot make so many things .That 20b could employ 6m Kenyans on 300 dollars salary...which would take them out poverty to middle class.Why are importing all the Chinese and india trinkets
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I have always sneered at the narrative that someone owes these kids jobs. It their job to build the great economy they want to see. What exactly is wrong with the good construction work they are doing there in the video?? :o
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I have always sneered at the narrative that someone owes these kids jobs. It their job to build the great economy they want to see. What exactly is wrong with the good construction work they are doing there in the video?? :o
Something wrong with you.
Why should gov waste money educating young Kenyans if the end result is 1st century menual work.
The irony of it is how one of the guy is china educated while the same government is importing chinese labour
Why don't you quit your office job and join them in mjengo?
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Mzungu education pretends it wants Mwafrika to have skills yet colonialisation killed the artisan class of mwafrika who had developed through apprenticeship education. Potters, herbalists, brewers, arrow/spear makers, iron casters are still classified as criminals while we run around talking of skilled labour.
The push is meant to have a doctor who can't see connection between hospital shutdown and Uhuru misleadership, corruption - how many times does one need a carpenter? Ain't 'carpenters' in China using computer aids to make the imports we are buying?
It is funny online when a sign writer can't spell correctly or walking around in all bars and hotels tables have to be balanced by cartons because these carpenters did not require geometry.
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So true.
walking around in all bars and hotels tables have to be balanced by cartons because these carpenters did not require geometry.
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I have always sneered at the narrative that someone owes these kids jobs. It their job to build the great economy they want to see. What exactly is wrong with the good construction work they are doing there in the video?? :o
I think it boils down to the fact that the typical person is not an entrepreneur. A good government is supposed to understand this fact and create the environment for the dude's skills to be harnessed either by itself or entrepreneurs.
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Mzungu education pretends it wants Mwafrika to have skills yet colonialisation killed the artisan class of mwafrika who had developed through apprenticeship education. Potters, herbalists, brewers, arrow/spear makers, iron casters are still classified as criminals while we run around talking of skilled labour.
The push is meant to have a doctor who can't see connection between hospital shutdown and Uhuru misleadership, corruption - how many times does one need a carpenter? Ain't 'carpenters' in China using computer aids to make the imports we are buying?
It is funny online when a sign writer can't spell correctly or walking around in all bars and hotels tables have to be balanced by cartons because these carpenters did not require geometry.
My take is that if there is demand for those skills. mzungu or no mzungu, they wont die off.
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I have always sneered at the narrative that someone owes these kids jobs. It their job to build the great economy they want to see. What exactly is wrong with the good construction work they are doing there in the video?? :o
Something wrong with you.
Why should gov waste money educating young Kenyans if the end result is 1st century menual work.
The irony of it is how one of the guy is china educated while the same government is importing chinese labour
Why don't you quit your office job and join them in mjengo?
I do work in mjengo as manufacturing engineer. Literally. Toiling in khaki aprons at the assembly line like clockwork. There is no difference between building robocars and laying steel - it all in the mind.
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Once something is declared urogi you were/are hunted like a criminal. We have to kill chang'aa and busaa brewing to import whiskey, gin and then cry how chemistry is useless in bars!! It is pure madness
Mzungu education pretends it wants Mwafrika to have skills yet colonialisation killed the artisan class of mwafrika who had developed through apprenticeship education. Potters, herbalists, brewers, arrow/spear makers, iron casters are still classified as criminals while we run around talking of skilled labour.
The push is meant to have a doctor who can't see connection between hospital shutdown and Uhuru misleadership, corruption - how many times does one need a carpenter? Ain't 'carpenters' in China using computer aids to make the imports we are buying?
It is funny online when a sign writer can't spell correctly or walking around in all bars and hotels tables have to be balanced by cartons because these carpenters did not require geometry.
My take is that if there is demand for those skills. mzungu or no mzungu, they wont die off.
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Interesting. The argument for 'technical' 'vocational' skills will evaporate once we get to this. Such mjengo will be classified as specialized which implies it is reserved for the select few who are supposed to take maths, physics.
I have always sneered at the narrative that someone owes these kids jobs. It their job to build the great economy they want to see. What exactly is wrong with the good construction work they are doing there in the video?? :o
Something wrong with you.
Why should gov waste money educating young Kenyans if the end result is 1st century menual work.
The irony of it is how one of the guy is china educated while the same government is importing chinese labour
Why don't you quit your office job and join them in mjengo?
I do work in mjengo as manufacturing engineer. Literally. Toiling in khaki aprons at the assembly line like clockwork. There is no difference between building robocars and laying steel - it all in the mind.
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Which means we need carpenters, mason who understand geometry, physics, shrinkage effects, marketing psychology - name it. Our all round education is the engine that drives the micro enterprises. This push for specialization for kids is totally destructive and it is a good thing that it is a lost cause.
So true.
walking around in all bars and hotels tables have to be balanced by cartons because these carpenters did not require geometry.
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Which means we need carpenters, mason who understand geometry, physics, shrinkage effects, marketing psychology - name it. Our all round education is the engine that drives the micro enterprises. This push for specialization for kids is totally destructive and it is a good thing that it is a lost cause.
So true.
walking around in all bars and hotels tables have to be balanced by cartons because these carpenters did not require geometry.
Tell them..basic education and quality one is what kenya needs..fixing public education is where gok should be spending resources on..the knbs numbers have proven that high unemployment is among the least educated..an educated person is agile and be molded to any job skill ..
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Jack of all trade master of none. We need people who know a lot in a limited field. Basic primary education is enough for everyone. Then from there - you specialize - or continue the academic route.
Which means we need carpenters, mason who understand geometry, physics, shrinkage effects, marketing psychology - name it. Our all round education is the engine that drives the micro enterprises. This push for specialization for kids is totally destructive and it is a good thing that it is a lost cause.
So true.
walking around in all bars and hotels tables have to be balanced by cartons because these carpenters did not require geometry.
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Jack of all trade master of none. We need people who know a lot in a limited field. Basic primary education is enough for everyone. Then from there - you specialize - or continue the academic route.
Which means we need carpenters, mason who understand geometry, physics, shrinkage effects, marketing psychology - name it. Our all round education is the engine that drives the micro enterprises. This push for specialization for kids is totally destructive and it is a good thing that it is a lost cause.
So true.
walking around in all bars and hotels tables have to be balanced by cartons because these carpenters did not require geometry.
When does basic knowledge education end?
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Basic knowledge either after 8 or 12yrs or 16yrs..but education should align with society needs and reality.A developed high end economy need highly educated people..ours need practical basic skills to fix basic infrastructure.We are not inventing the wheel.
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Basic knowledge either after 8 or 12yrs or 16yrs..but education should align with society needs and reality.A developed high end economy need highly educated people..ours need practical basic skills to fix basic infrastructure.We are not inventing the wheel.
Wow that is too young..16 or 18 would be ideal..what is going on with tivet
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8yrs of schooling - like in form 1 - someone should choose their path - and really based on KCPE - their fortune won't change much. Majority should be taken to special high school - where most of subject taught are practical hands on.
Wow that is too young..16 or 18 would be ideal..what is going on with tivet
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8yrs of schooling - like in form 1 - someone should choose their path - and really based on KCPE - their fortune won't change much. Majority should be taken to special high school - where most of subject taught are practical hands on.
Wow that is too young..16 or 18 would be ideal..what is going on with tivet
We do not have this capability..investing in a technical school requires money..in my area there used to be these technical schools but they were poorly funded and ended up dying out due to poor enrollment...even here is states this has been tried but it ends up failing because no one is willing to commit funds to do these programs properly
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would you get your 12 year old in a technical school in kenya?
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Yes, if he wasn't academically inclined. This is done by the Swiss. After primary school - Kids are placed on two tracks - academic - or vocational. It called dual system.
Students who aspire for an academic career enter Mittelschule (also named Gymnasium, or Kantonsschule, a public school by the canton/state) to be prepared for further studies and the Matura (normally obtained after 12 or 13 years of school usually at the age of 18 or 19).
Students intending to pursue a trade or vocation complete three to four additional years before entering Vocational Educations which are regulated by federal law and are based on a cooperation of private business offering educational job-positions and public schools offering obligatory school-lessons complementary to the on-the-job education
would you get your 12 year old in a technical school in kenya?
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would you get your 12 year old in a technical school in kenya?
Kids start school too young nowadays. They should start schooling at 5 years. Graduate at 13/14 then enroll in hands on practical and technical vocations of their choice. By 18 they should be wage earners contributing to society.
In the old world, youth would apprentice with a master to learn a trade. We need to bring back that model.