Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: KenyanPlato on March 10, 2020, 03:18:17 PM
-
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/economy/Job-cuts-double-workers-loan-defaults-Sh52bn/3946234-5484008-wicwe3z/index.html?utm_source=traqli&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=bdafrica_newsletter&tqid=1.2yNis0H0cBbdzxhXUKgZrxvwlJWsVktRTbzarW2Q
-
Jubilee economics plus corona virus effects == recession. The stupidity of the fiscal irresponsibility under jubilee means the country is ill prepared or capable to cope with external shocks. The only bright spot is low crude prices, but consumers wont get the full relieve cause the sector is highly regulated.
-
I think chaos will be global...so cut them some slack.
Jubilee economics plus corona virus effects == recession. The stupidity of the fiscal irresponsibility under jubilee means the country is ill prepared or capable to cope with external shocks. The only bright spot is low crude prices, but consumers wont get the full relieve cause the sector is highly regulated.
-
Jubilee is lucky and will now just put the blame on the global reccession and forget to mention its incompetence.
Uhuru is a political and economic desaster for Kenya. Anybody dreaming of extending his stay in SH is wishing the worst for Kenya.
I think chaos will be global...so cut them some slack.
-
I think he already acknowledges that by slowly dropping his Agenda 4 idea :) UhuRuto works well - if Ruto is allowed to work. But you leave the drunkard and you get chaos. The thing is to deliver - you need to be on top of the game - so you can effectively supervise gov operations. Now we are basically on auto-pilot as gov civil warfare goes on. That gov civil war is going to streets slowly and by then...not only would the failure be ECONOMIC but also POLITICAL.
Economic problems are easy to recover from...socio-political are harder.
Jubilee is lucky and will now just put the blame on the global reccession and forget to mention its incompetence.
Uhuru is a political and economic desaster for Kenya. Anybody dreaming of extending his stay in SH is wishing the worst for Kenya.
-
UhuRuto works well - if Ruto is allowed to work. But you leave the drunkard and you get chaos.
Pundit, how long will you keep peddling this lie with a straight face? We know the problem is taking stupidly big debts and not investing them in areas that would give us returns soon enough for them to make sense, along with letting a chunk of it vanish into graft; Your Ruto was stupidly along for the ride when all the bad decisions were made, so spare us this danganya-toto-toto-jinga business. This disaster duo is married at the hip in the plague they have become for us. Washindwe wote hawa wapumbavu.
-
Pundit likes peddling any pro Ruto propaganda. Of course Ruto was part and parcel of the gravy train that brought Kenya to a halt. His hawkish attitude towards the critics of Jubilee made things even worse. Ruto is actually on record even worse than Uhuru. He says things which do not make sense, but he will never admit having made any error. If Ruto becomes PORK in 2022, we can say goodbye to political freedom in Kenya.
This fake doctrate holder will bring Kenya no good.
Pundit, how long will you keep peddling this lie with a straight face? We know the problem is taking stupidly big debts and not investing them in areas that would give us returns soon enough for them to make sense, along with letting a chunk of it vanish into graft; Your Ruto was stupidly along for the ride when all the bad decisions were made, so spare us this danganya-toto-toto-jinga business. This disaster duo is married at the hip in the plague they have become for us. Washindwe wote hawa wapumbavu.
-
I say this with all honesty as always. Yes I support Ruto but I believe I can still be objective. Big debts are not a problem.The problem is making sure the money taken is invested and the economy grows big enough to pay debts.
Jubilee 1.0 did so well they improve their 50% score to 55%. That is HUGE - actually UNPRECEDENTED - in Africa. Normally gov erode their support - you don't see them increasing. But now if Jubilee 2.0 goes into election - they will drop 10%.
If you travel to Kenya now - you can see Jubilee 1.0 - progress - live live. Jubilee 2.0 starting with SGR ending up in maize plantation. The reason Chinese asked Uhuru to come with Ruto instead of Raila :) :)
Kenya had 10,000kms of road under tarmac - and now Jubilee took it to 20,000! That is biggest infrastructure expansion since independence. You can see if you go to your counties - tarmac - albeit low seal - snaking in and out of everywhere.
Uhuru the drunken then got a little jittery and took over the sails. He came up with a bone-headed idea. Big 4. Ruto told me they should focus on Infrastructure and TIVETs. He stuck to Big4 and BBI NONSENSE. The results - 2yr later - 300 houses out of 500,000 planned have been built. Manufacturing ZERO. Food Security. ZERO. What else did the drunkard talk about.
Uhuru is brilliant - shida take in POMBE.
Pundit, how long will you keep peddling this lie with a straight face? We know the problem is taking stupidly big debts and not investing them in areas that would give us returns soon enough for them to make sense, along with letting a chunk of it vanish into graft; Your Ruto was stupidly along for the ride when all the bad decisions were made, so spare us this danganya-toto-toto-jinga business. This disaster duo is married at the hip in the plague they have become for us. Washindwe wote hawa wapumbavu.
-
I pray Ruto become PORK. Then you'll see what having a Museveni, Kagame, or Meles Zenawi does to a country. or Having Hilter in Germany did to your adopted country. We need people who actually can do stuff.
Pundit likes peddling any pro Ruto propaganda. Of course Ruto was part and parcel of the gravy train that brought Kenya to a halt. His hawkish attitude towards the critics of Jubilee made things even worse. Ruto is actually on record even worse than Uhuru. He says things which do not make sense, but he will never admit having made any error. If Ruto becomes PORK in 2022, we can say goodbye to political freedom in Kenya.
This fake doctrate holder will bring Kenya no good.
-
This Anglican pastor agrees. Tell the drunkard Uhuru to let Ruto drive the car :) home otherwise he will crash everyone on it.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2020-03-16-pastor-urges-uhuru-to-end-bad-blood-with-ruto/
-
This Anglican pastor agrees. Tell the drunkard Uhuru to let Ruto drive the car :) home otherwise he will crash everyone on it.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2020-03-16-pastor-urges-uhuru-to-end-bad-blood-with-ruto/
An atheist like you is now quoting priests .. Ruto and Uhuru have been rejected by Kikuyu base. They are both thieves and seen as incompetent. Kikuyus are giving Uhuru the benefit of doubt on Stealing but ruto they have no doubt he is a reckless thief
-
Any rink to that. This is ACK pastor - top dog - warming the drunkard about the epic disaster. I am capable of agreeing with you on many issues as you well know and disagreeing on even many more - and that is what a fully evolved primate ought to do.
I agree with you that Ruto, Uhuru, Raila and all top politicians we have to pick from are very accomplished and successfully thieves. I think Ruto is especially gifted in that dept and the 'hatred' stems from realization that he is a better thief than us. But still like pastor says - there are other things - that fully evolved primates will consider - before making a decision.
Simpletons only have two brain cells - like a single-celled every ready battery with negative and positive.
An atheist like you is now quoting priests .. Ruto and Uhuru have been rejected by Kikuyu base. They are both thieves and seen as incompetent. Kikuyus are giving Uhuru the benefit of doubt on Stealing but ruto they have no doubt he is a reckless thief
-
:D :D :D :D
Pundit saw the light some time back in Mavoko.
An atheist like you is now quoting priests ..
-
The Church in Kenya is a big joke. Lives on handouts and dances to the music being played by the person paying. Nobody will take this guy seriously.
Any rink to that. This is ACK pastor - top dog - warming the drunkard about the epic disaster. I am capable of agreeing with you on many issues as you well know and disagreeing on even many more - and that is what a fully evolved primate ought to do.
I agree with you that Ruto, Uhuru, Raila and all top politicians we have to pick from are very accomplished and successfully thieves. I think Ruto is especially gifted in that dept and the 'hatred' stems from realization that he is a better thief than us. But still like pastor says - there are other things - that fully evolved primates will consider - before making a decision.
Simpletons only have two brain cells - like a single-celled every ready battery with negative and positive.
-
This is mainstream - ACK - Catholic - those are kinda better than Awour and General one. Those when they speak - you listen - but don't need to take their advice. It obvious GEMA nation is going through internal turmoil as they don't like the direction Uhuru is taking the country.
The Church in Kenya is a big joke. Lives on handouts and dances to the music being played by the person paying. Nobody will take this guy seriously.
-
ACK has seen better times. Of late its pastors are not much different from the Owuors and Ngangas of this world.
GEMA never chose Uhuru because of his leadership qualities, but just to save his neck from the ICC. GEMA should now not complain about the bed it made and should lay in it in silence.
This is mainstream - ACK - Catholic - those are kinda better than Awour and General one. Those when they speak - you listen - but don't need to take their advice. It obvious GEMA nation is going through internal turmoil as they don't like the direction Uhuru is taking the country.
-
According to GEMA - UHURU a prince who didn't have to - showed leadership and sacrifices when he organized retaliatory attacks and aid to their people in distress - after Kibaki, clueless cowardly gov became unable and unwilling - and from that day - Uhuru became LEGIT. He was no longer the Moi illegitimate kid. Now he was like his father JOMO - a real hero of GEMA nation. And to top it - he had secured a peace deal with Kalenjin (Ruto) - so for them, he had earned his stripes as the Muthamaki.
The last two years - he has done the uncompromisable - he has embraced their enemy numero uno Raila and seems to spite Ruto.
In short - Kenya leaders or heroes - can become a villain - if people feel they don't represent their interest anymore. And Uhuru stands the greatest risk of becoming another Moi - whom Kalenjin loved but eventually didn't want anything to do with him. Yes, Moi was still respected - but like past hero.
Uhuru if he causes Jubilee split will be regarded worse than a dog. For he will start another painful war. And that is what many Kikuyus with a voice (many are scared of Kibicho-Uhuru) are telling him.
ACK has seen better times. Of late its pastors are not much different from the Owuors and Ngangas of this world.
GEMA never chose Uhuru because of his leadership qualities, but just to save his neck from the ICC. GEMA should now not complain about the bed it made and should lay in it in silence.
-
I say this with all honesty as always. Yes I support Ruto but I believe I can still be objective. Big debts are not a problem.The problem is making sure the money taken is invested and the economy grows big enough to pay debts.
Jubilee 1.0 did so well they improve their 50% score to 55%. That is HUGE - actually UNPRECEDENTED - in Africa. Normally gov erode their support - you don't see them increasing. But now if Jubilee 2.0 goes into election - they will drop 10%.
If you travel to Kenya now - you can see Jubilee 1.0 - progress - live live. Jubilee 2.0 starting with SGR ending up in maize plantation. The reason Chinese asked Uhuru to come with Ruto instead of Raila :) :)
Kenya had 10,000kms of road under tarmac - and now Jubilee took it to 20,000! That is biggest infrastructure expansion since independence. You can see if you go to your counties - tarmac - albeit low seal - snaking in and out of everywhere.
Uhuru the drunken then got a little jittery and took over the sails. He came up with a bone-headed idea. Big 4. Ruto told me they should focus on Infrastructure and TIVETs. He stuck to Big4 and BBI NONSENSE. The results - 2yr later - 300 houses out of 500,000 planned have been built. Manufacturing ZERO. Food Security. ZERO. What else did the drunkard talk about.
Uhuru is brilliant - shida take in POMBE.
Pundit, how long will you keep peddling this lie with a straight face? We know the problem is taking stupidly big debts and not investing them in areas that would give us returns soon enough for them to make sense, along with letting a chunk of it vanish into graft; Your Ruto was stupidly along for the ride when all the bad decisions were made, so spare us this danganya-toto-toto-jinga business. This disaster duo is married at the hip in the plague they have become for us. Washindwe wote hawa wapumbavu.
The excess of the first term is what is haunting the economy today even before the effects of the virus. Economic development means increase in production and consumption by private sectors and consumers. Roads and buildings are good but has to be coupled with increase in production. The worst thing jubilee did to kenya economy is crowding out the private sector. Apart from credit , jubilee crowded out the private sector in business i.e by running huge budget deficits, the government drew alot businesses to do business with the government. Predictably government ran out money and all those businesses are now bankrupt or about to. If that capital was directed in the private sector the economy would have been far much healthier to withstand the virus shock. Anyhow KSH shilling depreciating daily as CBK mop up USD to pay for the crazy Chinese and eurobonds.
Now in the hour of need the government has very few tools to keep the economy afloat. If something doesn't happen soon we'll be talking about complete collapse of the economy.
Its funny how tanga tanga team blame uhuru while kieleweke blame ruto for stealing. Bottomline both are inept and clearly clueless on how to run an economy.
-
Economic - You discount the public sector role in economic developments. I think all 3 sectors need to function. individuals, Private Sector and Public Sector - should all be firing on their cylinders.
Politics..I am not sure how long bad policy - take - before coming to haunt. Uhuru has to carry the blame. Ruto should distance himself from this disaster. Corona definitely taking the economy to recession. Add BBI and Raila...and Ruto should completely stay away from defending Jubilee..and say it's now BBI and Raila is responsible.
People know Jubilee 1.0 was mean machine - they know BBI 2.0 is akin to NARA - makelele tu.
The excess of the first term is what is haunting the economy today even before the effects of the virus. Economic development means increase in production and consumption by private sectors and consumers. Roads and buildings are good but has to be coupled with increase in production. The worst thing jubilee did to kenya economy is crowding out the private sector. Apart from credit , jubilee crowded out the private sector in business i.e by running huge budget deficits, the government drew alot businesses to do business with the government. Predictably government ran out money and all those businesses are now bankrupt or about to. If that capital was directed in the private sector the economy would have been far much healthier to withstand the virus shock. Anyhow KSH shilling depreciating daily as CBK mop up USD to pay for the crazy Chinese and eurobonds.
Now in the hour of need the government has very few tools to keep the economy afloat. If something doesn't happen soon we'll be talking about complete collapse of the economy.
Its funny how tanga tanga team blame uhuru while kieleweke blame ruto for stealing. Bottomline both are inept and clearly clueless on how to run an economy.
-
Economic - You discount the public sector role in economic developments. I think all 3 sectors need to function. individuals, Private Sector and Public Sector - should all be firing on their cylinders.
Politics..I am not sure how long bad policy - take - before coming to haunt. Uhuru has to carry the blame. Ruto should distance himself from this disaster. Corona definitely taking the economy to recession. Add BBI and Raila...and Ruto should completely stay away from defending Jubilee..and say it's now BBI and Raila is responsible.
People know Jubilee 1.0 was mean machine - they know BBI 2.0 is akin to NARA - makelele tu.
All 3 sectors should be firing in all cylinders but since government controls the other 2 when that malfunctions it immediately affects the other 2. The effects of budget deficit start being felt after the credit market freezes(or interest rise), limit on taxation is met or tax collection takes a nose dive. Kenya economy is experiencing all three. Kenya economy started faltering way back in 2016, that's when government started crowding out the private sector. The economy has been kept afloat by more borrowing and spending but now the bill is due.
Things like universal electricity connections, SGR, fake fertilizers, overpriced rds, dams, huduma number etc are what decimated the economy even before the virus. All this were initiated in jubilee 1.0.
BBI and Raila has had zero effect on the economy, the skunk that's jubilee economy belong to the duo.
-
Countries like Ethiopia have grown due to public sector investments. IMF and WB have berated Kenya for long for running a single-engine growth based on private sector and here comes Jubilee - and they add another engine - and we saw economy grow and transformations. It not true gov has crowded funding - Jubilee borrowed from China and Eurobond. And to their credit - unlike Kibaki who privatize the economy - Jubilee did not sell any public assets.If Kimunya had continued - we would have outsized private sector and small ineffective public sector. Public investment on roads and such are not wasted.
When it comes to politics - people know when economy is being mismanaged like now - and when it doing well. Jubilee grew their support from 50% to 55% because folks could see the economic duo deliver.
We need public investment - more than ever - because at our level of under-development - we need to do BASICS first.
Investing in the small private sector on the marginal gains territory is sure ticket to under-development as the Ethiopians pass us.
All 3 sectors should be firing in all cylinders but since government controls the other 2 when that malfunctions it immediately affects the other 2. The effects of budget deficit start being felt after the credit market freezes(or interest rise), limit on taxation is met or tax collection takes a nose dive. Kenya economy is experiencing all three. Kenya economy started faltering way back in 2016, that's when government started crowding out the private sector. The economy has been kept afloat by more borrowing and spending but now the bill is due.
Things like universal electricity connections, SGR, fake fertilizers, overpriced rds, dams, huduma number etc are what decimated the economy even before the virus. All this were initiated in jubilee 1.0.
BBI and Raila has had zero effect on the economy, the skunk that's jubilee economy belong to the duo.
-
Countries like Ethiopia have grown due to public sector investments. IMF and WB have berated Kenya for long for running a single-engine growth based on private sector and here comes Jubilee - and they add another engine - and we saw economy grow and transformations. It not true gov has crowded funding - Jubilee borrowed from China and Eurobond. And to their credit - unlike Kibaki who privatize the economy - Jubilee did not sell any public assets.If Kimunya had continued - we would have outsized private sector and small ineffective public sector. Public investment on roads and such are not wasted.
When it comes to politics - people know when economy is being mismanaged like now - and when it doing well. Jubilee grew their support from 50% to 55% because folks could see the economic duo deliver.
We need public investment - more than ever - because at our level of under-development - we need to do BASICS first.
Investing in the small private sector on the marginal gains territory is sure ticket to under-development as the Ethiopians pass us.
All 3 sectors should be firing in all cylinders but since government controls the other 2 when that malfunctions it immediately affects the other 2. The effects of budget deficit start being felt after the credit market freezes(or interest rise), limit on taxation is met or tax collection takes a nose dive. Kenya economy is experiencing all three. Kenya economy started faltering way back in 2016, that's when government started crowding out the private sector. The economy has been kept afloat by more borrowing and spending but now the bill is due.
Things like universal electricity connections, SGR, fake fertilizers, overpriced rds, dams, huduma number etc are what decimated the economy even before the virus. All this were initiated in jubilee 1.0.
BBI and Raila has had zero effect on the economy, the skunk that's jubilee economy belong to the duo.
Where is ethiopia now? Infrastructure development without increase in productivity of people and businesses isn't sustainable. It's the reason why Ethiopia had to renegotiate debt, seek bailout and promise to liberalize. Public investments don't produce enough proceeds in taxation revenue to pay back debt. Jubilee government literally doubled local borrowing immediately in 2014 at the same time they doubled kenyan's budget. Kippra and even treasury showed that government contribution to gdp growth accounted to more than 25%. No wonder we had asset bubble in real estate.
-
You should see those emaciated promos dying trying to trek to Djibouti and saudi arabia ...It is a shame what those trygerian idiots heave done
-
BBI and Raila has had zero effect on the economy, the skunk that's jubilee economy belong to the duo.
Thank you. I don't know what kanywaji they serve in Mavoko but Pundit should change his fav drinking joint if he thinks any idiot will buy his confused story about how the economy tanked under hawa 'wakula nyama' braggarts.
-
Jubilee economics plus corona virus effects == recession. The stupidity of the fiscal irresponsibility under jubilee means the country is ill prepared or capable to cope with external shocks. The only bright spot is low crude prices, but consumers wont get the full relieve cause the sector is highly regulated.
HK. WTF have you been man?
Things will get really bad before they stablize.
-
Kenya looking for a bailout just to stabilize https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001365539/broke-kenya-now-turns-to-donors-for-sh122b , $1.15b. This money is likely to be wasted on vanity projects. This would be the time to do painful structural changes in the entire economy. Kenya has to reschedule all its external loans or default. The budget has to be slashed by half. This is the moment to shut down parastatals and regulatory authority that gobble up taxpayers money. Since most of kenya economy is informal the most effective taxes to reduce would be excise tax and vat.
-
Who has the money in this enviroment to donate? GoK is joking. Yes debt rescheduling will work - but we aint getting much donor funding. IMF and WB may not be able to bail this out. Time for China to step up. This indeed is time to let those loose making gov owned co-orporation go under..KBC, KQ, Mumias, Uchumi, name them....use this as excuse to let them go...privatize them for a dollar each.
Let pray Kshs:) that will cause chaos.
Tax cuts on some industries like tourism - may make sense.
Kenya looking for a bailout just to stabilize https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001365539/broke-kenya-now-turns-to-donors-for-sh122b , $1.15b. This money is likely to be wasted on vanity projects. This would be the time to do painful structural changes in the entire economy. Kenya has to reschedule all its external loans or default. The budget has to be slashed by half. This is the moment to shut down parastatals and regulatory authority that gobble up taxpayers money. Since most of kenya economy is informal the most effective taxes to reduce would be excise tax and vat.
-
Uhuru's economic rescue plan
1, 100 percent tax relief for persons earning gross monthly income of up to Ksh. 24,000.
2, Reduction of Income Tax Rate (Pay-As-You-Earn) from 30 percent to 25 percent.
3,Reduction of Resident Income Tax (Corporation Tax) from 30 percent to 25 percent;
4,Reduction of the turnover tax rate from the current 3 percent to 1percent for all Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs);
5,Appropriation of an additional Ksh. 10 Billion to the elderly, orphans and other vulnerable members of our society through cash-transfers by the Ministry of Labour and Social Protection, to cushion them from the adverse economic effects of the Covid-19 pandemic;
6,Temporary suspension of the listing with Credit Reference Bureaus (CRB) of any person, Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMES) and corporate entities whose loan account fall overdue or is in arrears, effective 1st April, 2020.
7,The National Treasury shall cause immediate reduction of the VAT from 16 percent to 14 percent, effective April 1, 2020;
This proposals will have very minimal impact on the economy. Most of kenya economy is informal and the only thing that touches on the informal economy is reduction of vat and tot but by measly 2%. This would have been the appropriate time to go on massive cost cutting of all the unnecessary expenditure, shutting down moribund parastatals, cutting down on regulations and regulations levies. Rescheduling debt repayments and if there's money available to address the demand side of the equation. The tokenism of executive taking a paycut yields nothing.
-
Chinese need to step up and takes some responsibility for this...and use some of their trillions in savings to rescue the global economy.What is needed is to send anybody identified to be living in a slum or poverty some mpesa every week or day to buy food.300 she per day sent to 10m informally employed about a billion dollars monthly.... the money should come from taxing the rich more...not less.That billion dollars is cost of keeping 10m households locked down for a month.Without that the poor will continue eking a living and will refuse to lockdown or start looting.
-
Chinese need to step up and takes some responsibility for this...and use some of their trillions in savings to rescue the global economy.What is needed is to send anybody identified to be living in a slum or poverty some mpesa every week or day to buy food.300 she per day sent to 10m informally employed about a billion dollars monthly.... the money should come from taxing the rich more...not less.That billion dollars is cost of keeping 10m households locked down for a month.Without that the poor will continue eking a living and will refuse to lockdown or start looting.
The problem with the economy is demand, taxing anyone more now would for sure push the economy from recession to depression. Also there's not enough "rich people" to tax to raise enough funds to create a fund to support businesses and poor people. The few people with disposable income should be encouraged to spend to support the economy. The only option for government is to crawl back non essential funds allocated to ministries. Also to halt all foreign debt repayments. Then on the supply side to cut taxes that informal sector pays, i.e vat and excise tax.
Out of curiosity, since Ruto controls parliament with some of his key lieutenants heading key committees(Ichungwa), does he have any plan or is he in agreement with uhuru's proposal?
-
You're a trickle-down economist dyed in the wool-like Kibaki. I think I am more the pragmatic solution guy. I am interested in solving the problem we have now and dealing with consequences. We have the problem of locking down 10M households -- majority living from hand to mouth. Close home - my sister - just called me wondering what we will do with my father workers who live hand to mouth - when no tea plucking is going.
Once we have dealt with diseases - we can talk about the economy. Dolling out incentive when you're at war with disease is STUPIDITY !01.
Uhuru long lost it.
What is needed as we prepare for lock-down is to think about 10M poor people who need food, shelter, and water?
The problem with the economy is demand, taxing anyone more now would for sure push the economy from recession to depression. Also there's not enough "rich people" to tax to raise enough funds to create a fund to support businesses and poor people. The few people with disposable income should be encouraged to spend to support the economy. The only option for government is to crawl back non essential funds allocated to ministries. Also to halt all foreign debt repayments. Then on the supply side to cut taxes that informal sector pays, i.e vat and excise tax.
Out of curiosity, since Ruto controls parliament with some of his key lieutenants heading key committees(Ichungwa), does he have any plan or is he in agreement with uhuru's proposal?
-
You're a trickle-down economist dyed in the wool-like Kibaki. I think I am more the pragmatic solution guy. I am interested in solving the problem we have now and dealing with consequences. We have the problem of locking down 10M households -- majority living from hand to mouth. Close home - my sister - just called me wondering what we will do with my father workers who live hand to mouth - when no tea plucking is going.
Once we have dealt with diseases - we can talk about the economy. Dolling out incentive when you're at war with disease is STUPIDITY !01.
Uhuru long lost it.
What is needed as we prepare for lock-down is to think about 10M poor people who need food, shelter, and water?
The problem with the economy is demand, taxing anyone more now would for sure push the economy from recession to depression. Also there's not enough "rich people" to tax to raise enough funds to create a fund to support businesses and poor people. The few people with disposable income should be encouraged to spend to support the economy. The only option for government is to crawl back non essential funds allocated to ministries. Also to halt all foreign debt repayments. Then on the supply side to cut taxes that informal sector pays, i.e vat and excise tax.
Out of curiosity, since Ruto controls parliament with some of his key lieutenants heading key committees(Ichungwa), does he have any plan or is he in agreement with uhuru's proposal?
So your suggestion of taxing the rich is the solution? So how are you going to fund the poor 10m people? Your suggestion of taxing the rich is just laughable at this juncture, the economy is in free fall and you want to increase taxes? Its similar to the tokenism in uhuru proposal of cutting executive pay. The solution is to cut expenditure to get funds to sustain the poor 10m (that's the demand side) and at the same time cut taxes that're paid by the poor 10m that's vat and mainly excise tax (supply side). You have a very pedestrian view of the economy.
-
How will cut taxes translated to food for kibera residents? How long will you as business man trickle down the benefits. You need to understand we have about 35% of kenyans who are poor - with about 15-17M - extremely poor. The rural farming poor are okay. The urban poor are in serious problem now - and they will cause chaos.
My solution is simple - gov should provide food for them - and how it does it - could literally include trucking food - or somehow finding out how to quickly roll out a welfare system.
Whatever is budgeted and is in account - can be used to fund these urban poor.
Once this war is over - lets talk the economy.
So your suggestion of taxing the rich is the solution? So how are you going to fund the poor 10m people? Your suggestion of taxing the rich is just laughable at this juncture, the economy is in free fall and you want to increase taxes? Its similar to the tokenism in uhuru proposal of cutting executive pay. The solution is to cut expenditure to get funds to sustain the poor 10m (that's the demand side) and at the same time cut taxes that're paid by the poor 10m that's vat and mainly excise tax (supply side). You have a very pedestrian view of the economy.
-
How will cut taxes translated to food for kibera residents? How long will you as business man trickle down the benefits. You need to understand we have about 35% of kenyans who are poor - with about 15-17M - extremely poor. The rural farming poor are okay. The urban poor are in serious problem now - and they will cause chaos.
My solution is simple - gov should provide food for them - and how it does it - could literally include trucking food - or somehow finding out how to quickly roll out a welfare system.
Whatever is budgeted and is in account - can be used to fund these urban poor.
Once this war is over - lets talk the economy.
So your suggestion of taxing the rich is the solution? So how are you going to fund the poor 10m people? Your suggestion of taxing the rich is just laughable at this juncture, the economy is in free fall and you want to increase taxes? Its similar to the tokenism in uhuru proposal of cutting executive pay. The solution is to cut expenditure to get funds to sustain the poor 10m (that's the demand side) and at the same time cut taxes that're paid by the poor 10m that's vat and mainly excise tax (supply side). You have a very pedestrian view of the economy.
100% agreed. I do not understand the notion that cutting taxes for the rich is helpful when the most hard-hit are poor people who rely on daily wages/earnings which have suddenly been stripped away. People without food stocks and sanitizers hoarded in a panic. It's situations like this that expose the sheer immorality of capitalism unmitigated by robust social programs.
The govt can either provide food or end lock-down and replace it with other strategies like no showing up in public without a mask, no entering Mats, markets, etc before washing hands, maintain 1 m distance from others, no public gatherings, and enforce these everywhere with security people like we did when we started checking for terrorists at every entrance. Otherwise, this is a joke and is unsustainable. Where the govt will find the food, I don't care, but they either provide it or end the lock-down. No two ways about it. People have to eat, no buts/ifs/negotiations.
-
Precisely. Some of these copy-cat measures work well in west - but in Kenya - unless people bail out to rural areas - and then kill the economy - we cannot have a lockdown. I prefer commonsense - than all mumbo-jumbo that idiotic Uhuru is talking about parading CBK governor to talk about interest rates or 4G internet. It akin to French Queen who invited a revolution by asking why the people were not eating cake if bread was not available.
We know people in our families or workplaces who survive hand to mouth - they need solutions - or they will start to loot or steal. The thousands who trek daily from slums to look for jobs that pay 300 shs a day...
We have informal economy - and some people want to talk about tax cuts, interest rates, fiscal policy, monetary policy - or other first-world issues.
This is how out of touch we've become from reality.
100% agreed. I do not understand the notion that cutting taxes for the rich is helpful when the most hard-hit are poor people who rely on daily wages/earnings which have suddenly been stripped away. People without food stocks and sanitizers hoarded in a panic. It's situations like this that expose the sheer immorality of capitalism unmitigated by robust social programs.
The govt can either provide food or end lock-down and replace it with other strategies like no showing up in public without a mask, no entering Mats, markets, etc before washing hands, maintain 1 m distance from others, no public gatherings, and enforce these everywhere with security people like we did when we started checking for terrorists at every entrance. Otherwise, this is a joke and is unsustainable. Where the govt will find the food, I don't care, but they either provide it or end the lock-down. No two ways about it. People have to eat, no buts/ifs/negotiations.
-
How will cut taxes translated to food for kibera residents? How long will you as business man trickle down the benefits. You need to understand we have about 35% of kenyans who are poor - with about 15-17M - extremely poor. The rural farming poor are okay. The urban poor are in serious problem now - and they will cause chaos.
My solution is simple - gov should provide food for them - and how it does it - could literally include trucking food - or somehow finding out how to quickly roll out a welfare system.
Whatever is budgeted and is in account - can be used to fund these urban poor.
Once this war is over - lets talk the economy.
So your suggestion of taxing the rich is the solution? So how are you going to fund the poor 10m people? Your suggestion of taxing the rich is just laughable at this juncture, the economy is in free fall and you want to increase taxes? Its similar to the tokenism in uhuru proposal of cutting executive pay. The solution is to cut expenditure to get funds to sustain the poor 10m (that's the demand side) and at the same time cut taxes that're paid by the poor 10m that's vat and mainly excise tax (supply side). You have a very pedestrian view of the economy.
If you look above I have advocated for dealing with demand side i.e something along the lines of a rescue fund which in my humble opinion should be aimed at individuals and SMEs. The question is how to fund it? Your suggestion of taxing the rich is what doesn't make economic sense. Because there's not enough rich people to tax to get the kind of money needed. Whether its for food and shelter or to support individuals, MSE and SMEs. The only option is to gut budgets of all ministries except the absolutely essentials. Then arrange for debt extension repayment program. For the last couple of yrs. I have been indicating the danger of running crazy budget deficits of 7-9%, but you said those are western economic nonsense. Now the government has very little wiggle room to stabilize the economy.
Cutting taxes which are paid by informal sector means those goods and services become cheaper hence more affordable. This cushions the poor and simultaneously acts as stimulus for the economy(supply side ).
-
You're mixing issues. We are here because of exogenous event nobody could have thought would happen. We are not here because of poor fiscal or monetary policy. It appears after tax cuts - and other such not so practical ideas - gov has decided to deploy police at night the rich from the hungry poor. The western countries are deploying welfare systems - and we are not too poor to do the same. We need to start somewhere. For now, we need to tap into a contingency fund and start with slums and urban poor. I am talking direct support to poor families to buy food - I don't care about business or economy at this moment of war.
Once you understand the role of welfare systems beyond the trickle-down economics then we will progress.
People want to hear how Uhuru will support individuals (not SMES or business) - directly with food or income in these terrible times. Western countries have promised to pay their citizens 80% of income. In Kenya - we have fledging national welfare that supports hunger-stricken, old and orphaned - now is the time to expand it.
If you look above I have advocated for dealing with demand side i.e something along the lines of a rescue fund which in my humble opinion should be aimed at individuals and SMEs. The question is how to fund it? Your suggestion of taxing the rich is what doesn't make economic sense. Because there's not enough rich people to tax to get the kind of money needed. Whether its for food and shelter or to support individuals, MSE and SMEs. The only option is to gut budgets of all ministries except the absolutely essentials. Then arrange for debt extension repayment program. For the last couple of yrs. I have been indicating the danger of running crazy budget deficits of 7-9%, but you said those are western economic nonsense. Now the government has very little wiggle room to stabilize the economy.
Cutting taxes which are paid by informal sector means those goods and services become cheaper hence more affordable. This cushions the poor and simultaneously acts as stimulus for the economy(supply side ).
-
Now a thinking Mp - Kangata wants gov to give 7M families 10K each.
Kenya need to ask Safaricom and Airtel - to create profile of poor families based on their spending habits - and the lists can be verified somehow. Remove anybody who is salaried obviously or formally employed or whose income makes them rich.
And that should form the start of the national welfare system. Once we have list of poor people - during time of crisis like now - gov can easily send them some money - even 2k is enough for them to buy food.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/counties/central/2020-03-28-kangata-wants-state-to-give-poor-families-sh10000-each/
Murang’a Senator Irungu Kang’ata wants the government to set aside Sh70 billion to help needy families survive the effects of the coronavirus.
He said at least seven million families live from hand to mouth and require urgent assistance.
This, he said, is because the United Nations describes a person living in poverty as someone earning Sh100 everyday.
“The country has a population of 47 million Kenyans. With each household having at least four members, this totals to about 12 million families. If we exclude those in formal employment and the self-employed, the number reduces to around seven million homes,” he said.
-
Now a thinking Mp - Kangata wants gov to give 7M families 10K each.
Kenya need to ask Safaricom and Airtel - to create profile of poor families based on their spending habits - and the lists can be verified somehow. Remove anybody who is salaried obviously or formally employed or whose income makes them rich.
And that should form the start of the national welfare system. Once we have list of poor people - during time of crisis like now - gov can easily send them some money - even 2k is enough for them to buy food.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/counties/central/2020-03-28-kangata-wants-state-to-give-poor-families-sh10000-each/
Murang’a Senator Irungu Kang’ata wants the government to set aside Sh70 billion to help needy families survive the effects of the coronavirus.
He said at least seven million families live from hand to mouth and require urgent assistance.
This, he said, is because the United Nations describes a person living in poverty as someone earning Sh100 everyday.
“The country has a population of 47 million Kenyans. With each household having at least four members, this totals to about 12 million families. If we exclude those in formal employment and the self-employed, the number reduces to around seven million homes,” he said.
I really pray Uhuru will heed this. We need to start a petition on his Twitter account to push him to do this. Raila too, so he can throw his weight behind it. Beating desperate people up because they can't afford to stay home if they're going to feed their families is barbarism. Instead, govt needs to issue moratoriums on firing and evicting people during crisis, so people can stay home in peace, then deliver this basic amount via MPesa until the crisis is over.
They should also have banned upcountry travel two weeks ago. Young, healthy Nairobians busy taking Corona to the villages where most of our elderly live.
-
Precisely. The whole night quarantine is to stop the hungry poor from looting the rich.
I really pray Uhuru will heed this. We need to start a petition on his Twitter account to push him to do this. Raila too, so he can throw his weight behind it. Beating desperate people up because they can't afford to stay home if they're going to feed their families is barbarism. Instead, govt needs to issue moratoriums on firing and evicting people during crisis, so people can stay home in peace, then deliver this basic amount via MPesa until the crisis is over.
They should also have banned upcountry travel two weeks ago. Young, healthy Nairobians busy taking Corona to the villages where most of our elderly live.
-
According to GEMA - UHURU a prince who didn't have to - showed leadership and sacrifices when he organized retaliatory attacks and aid to their people in distress - after Kibaki, clueless cowardly gov became unable and unwilling - and from that day - Uhuru became LEGIT. He was no longer the Moi illegitimate kid. Now he was like his father JOMO - a real hero of GEMA nation. And to top it - he had secured a peace deal with Kalenjin (Ruto) - so for them, he had earned his stripes as the Muthamaki.
The last two years - he has done the uncompromisable - he has embraced their enemy numero uno Raila and seems to spite Ruto.
In short - Kenya leaders or heroes - can become a villain - if people feel they don't represent their interest anymore. And Uhuru stands the greatest risk of becoming another Moi - whom Kalenjin loved but eventually didn't want anything to do with him. Yes, Moi was still respected - but like past hero.
Uhuru if he causes Jubilee split will be regarded worse than a dog. For he will start another painful war. And that is what many Kikuyus with a voice (many are scared of Kibicho-Uhuru) are telling him.
ACK has seen better times. Of late its pastors are not much different from the Owuors and Ngangas of this world.
GEMA never chose Uhuru because of his leadership qualities, but just to save his neck from the ICC. GEMA should now not complain about the bed it made and should lay in it in silence.
Pundit do you know why Ruto has topnotch security during Kibaki error? He was Kyuk enemy Numero#1. So if Uhuru embraced him, what's the difference between that and Uhuru's embrace of RAO?
-
Langas eldoret - resident strike and refuse to go on curfew - says they had rather die from corona than hunger pangs
https://www.facebook.com/isaac.mutai.733/videos/2676711615891549/?t=28
-
Uhuru can embrace anybody but GEMA are not boarding.
Pundit do you know why Ruto has topnotch security during Kibaki error? He was Kyuk enemy Numero#1. So if Uhuru embraced him, what's the difference between that and Uhuru's embrace of RAO?
-
Langas eldoret - resident strike and refuse to go on curfew - says they had rather die from corona than hunger pangs
https://www.facebook.com/isaac.mutai.733/videos/2676711615891549/?t=28
I can't believe how short-sighted Kenyan leadership is. You have to be genuinely stupid to think for a second that millions will accept going hungry just so you don't have to deal with Corona. If 10 million-plus are going to be without food, that's 20-30% of us. Corona death rate at its worst (Italy) is 9%, and at its best is 2%. That math alone should tell you the govt is using a hammer to kill a mosquito.
-
You're mixing issues. We are here because of exogenous event nobody could have thought would happen. We are not here because of poor fiscal or monetary policy. It appears after tax cuts - and other such not so practical ideas - gov has decided to deploy police at night the rich from the hungry poor. The western countries are deploying welfare systems - and we are not too poor to do the same. We need to start somewhere. For now, we need to tap into a contingency fund and start with slums and urban poor. I am talking direct support to poor families to buy food - I don't care about business or economy at this moment of war.
Once you understand the role of welfare systems beyond the trickle-down economics then we will progress.
People want to hear how Uhuru will support individuals (not SMES or business) - directly with food or income in these terrible times. Western countries have promised to pay their citizens 80% of income. In Kenya - we have fledging national welfare that supports hunger-stricken, old and orphaned - now is the time to expand it.
If you look above I have advocated for dealing with demand side i.e something along the lines of a rescue fund which in my humble opinion should be aimed at individuals and SMEs. The question is how to fund it? Your suggestion of taxing the rich is what doesn't make economic sense. Because there's not enough rich people to tax to get the kind of money needed. Whether its for food and shelter or to support individuals, MSE and SMEs. The only option is to gut budgets of all ministries except the absolutely essentials. Then arrange for debt extension repayment program. For the last couple of yrs. I have been indicating the danger of running crazy budget deficits of 7-9%, but you said those are western economic nonsense. Now the government has very little wiggle room to stabilize the economy.
Cutting taxes which are paid by informal sector means those goods and services become cheaper hence more affordable. This cushions the poor and simultaneously acts as stimulus for the economy(supply side ).
Once you feed people you think somehow their jobs will just reappear? You need to do both, feed people who are going hungry while supporting the businesses they derive their incomes from either as owners or as employees. The government can't feed people indefinitely while the economy is collapsing. Mind you the poor pay taxes directly , so if they aren't working soon government will grind to a halt. Also even big corporations like safaricom and equity generate their revenue from the "informal sector" . The MSE, SME and individuals need to remain in operation otherwise we're looking into the abyss. The taxes that informal sector pays mainly vat and exercise taxes need to be slashed to cushion them while also creating a fund that informal sector can borrow from at zero rate to stay afloat.
-
After this emergency period is over - everyone will get back to their normal mode. What we need is a welfare system that we can easily deploy to assist the vulnerable during such times - like in pandemic, drought, earthquake. What I don't advocate is keeping people perpetual on the welfare system - unless they are disabled or something close to that.
Once you feed people you think somehow their jobs will just reappear? You need to do both, feed people who are going hungry while supporting the businesses they derive their incomes from either as owners or as employees. The government can't feed people indefinitely while the economy is collapsing. Mind you the poor pay taxes directly , so if they aren't working soon government will grind to a halt. Also even big corporations like safaricom and equity generate their revenue from the "informal sector" . The MSE, SME and individuals need to remain in operation otherwise we're looking into the abyss. The taxes that informal sector pays mainly vat and exercise taxes need to be slashed to cushion them while also creating a fund that informal sector can borrow from at zero rate to stay afloat.
-
After this emergency period is over - everyone will get back to their normal mode. What we need is a welfare system that we can easily deploy to assist the vulnerable during such times - like in pandemic, drought, earthquake. What I don't advocate is keeping people perpetual on the welfare system - unless they are disabled or something close to that.
Once you feed people you think somehow their jobs will just reappear? You need to do both, feed people who are going hungry while supporting the businesses they derive their incomes from either as owners or as employees. The government can't feed people indefinitely while the economy is collapsing. Mind you the poor pay taxes directly , so if they aren't working soon government will grind to a halt. Also even big corporations like safaricom and equity generate their revenue from the "informal sector" . The MSE, SME and individuals need to remain in operation otherwise we're looking into the abyss. The taxes that informal sector pays mainly vat and exercise taxes need to be slashed to cushion them while also creating a fund that informal sector can borrow from at zero rate to stay afloat.
The point is economy isn't going to snap back. This is the reason why a fund and fiscal stimulus is necessary to ensure that we don't go into a depression. This thing has morphed from a health problem to a economic meltdown. Instead of welfare system funded by taxpayers that doles out cash, Kenya should set up a contributory fund managed by private sector but regulated by CMA and RBA. A lot of kenyans can contribute ksh50 daily to a fund so long as it can be accessible on a rainy day and its not being managed by government. Basically eliminate NSSF monopoly while at the same time allowing contributors to borrow against their contribution without incurring any penalties. Is it not sad that NSSF now isn't offering any help to its contributors and also unions aren't offering any relief to their contributors ( Atwoli is busy buying gold chains ).