Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: KenyanPlato on February 22, 2020, 03:55:16 PM
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a worthy human being. In 1992 Uhuru gave Moi 120 million to campaign. His young industrious brother Muhoho was outraged. He called a family meeting and demanded that he be given his share of inheritance so that he doesn't have to see his dad wealth wasted propping dictators. Ngina called for a truce and gave her boys something little to eat. Muhoho used his little money to start Brookside. he worked tirelessly and cut any communication with his brother. Brookside became the GOLDEN goose of Kenyatta empire. It provided another avenue to grow their immense wealth without worrying about Land issues or being corrupt. It is now Generating 30 billions shillings cash flow to Ngina Kibeti kubwa.
in 1997 a full blown alcoholic Uhuru took 90 million and went to seek Gatundu seat. he got a drabbing of the year and left depressed. He was so depressed that he ran to swisszerland for a year until when embassy bombing happened. upon embassy bombing Uhuru got wind that kamotho was incapacitated. he called Moi and Moi asked him to hurry and come take secretary General of KANU seat. Kamotho emerged from the rabble of US embassy under US then Ambassardor BBW Brazzile he was hiding in her big Couchie and escaped unhurt.
Uhuru was never made SC of KANU. So he was back in Nairobi broke and desperate. Everyone in the St Mary's circles was laughing at him. They thought he was a weakling that couldnt cut it. Moi in year 2000 make a deal with USA to leave power for exchange of 2 million dollars and protection.
Moi wanted someone to Fuck Kikuyus and so he walked over to CALEDIONA house where uhuru was living. He told him to start campaigning in Thika so that Moi can create a seat from him there.
Uhuru got out and hire Murathe. Murathe made a lot of moves that were noticed by GEMA barons. They all came calling and Uhuru became very powerful among Kiambu and Diaspora Kikuyus in Eldoret that didnt trust Kibaki
As fate would have it Moi named Uhuru as the KANU candidate and Raila left with KANU Rebels
Moi had make his last political move and it was a stupid desperate hail mary
Uhuru was defeated in 2002
So Muhoho looked at him and mocked him more. he told him I told you politics nii hasara tupu
it was PEV that was to revive Uhuru Dead career
Now Uhuru wants to leave Kenya peaceful and developed to make sure that Kikuyus will remember him fondly
As of Now Muhoho is still the hero will UHURU leave a developed and peaceful Kenya
Wiill his war on corruption bring peace and development
One More Hail Mary and Uhuru either scores a touchdown or Loses this bet of a a lifetime
As for Now I say let us make Muhoho president
He is a young Chief Muhoho. A progressive MAO type of guy
Sources: I will have to kill you but if you know you know. Let uhuru sue me for slander or defamation and we can prove this point by Point
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92 I think he was in Ford Asili with Matiba.They certainly came public to decry what Moi had done to Matibas.Well he recently gifted them 1B kshs from Kenya coffers directly undercutting the lawyer. I think kenyattas in 1992 split into Ford Asili and DP(Muhoho snr, Mugos) and when Moi pulled the impossible & Matiba became kaput they run back to Moi.
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This is more truthfully about Uhuru https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standardmedia.co.ke/mobile/amp/article/2000085026/the-untold-story-of-uhuru-s-long-political-journey
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92 I think he was in Ford Asili with Matiba.They certainly came public to decry what Moi had done to Matibas.Well he recently gifted them 1B kshs from Kenya coffers directly undercutting the lawyer. I think kenyattas in 1992 split into Ford Asili and DP(Muhoho snr, Mugos) and when Moi pulled the impossible & Matiba became kaput they run back to Moi.
Revision- Ngina and Uhuru bankrolled Moi from 1992 to 2000..
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Brookside revenue isn't 30b, Annual revenue of brookside is about 15b https://www.foodbev.com/news/danone-buys-remaining-stake-brookside-dairys-tanzanian-business/ . The kenyattas only own 50% of the company, danone owns 40% and a dubai fund owns 10%. Basically while the kenyattas are wealthly they're aren't worth anything close to $1b. Kenya is a poor country its only that we have alot of "hood" rich kenyans.
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Brookside revenue isn't 30b, Annual revenue of brookside is about 15b https://www.foodbev.com/news/danone-buys-remaining-stake-brookside-dairys-tanzanian-business/ . The kenyattas only own 50% of the company, danone owns 40% and a dubai fund owns 10%. Basically while the kenyattas are wealthly they're aren't worth anything close to $1b. Kenya is a poor country its only that we have alot of "hood" rich kenyans.
Hehe kenyattas are worthy more than $3 billion dollars if you value land and money hidden abroad
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Brookside revenue isn't 30b, Annual revenue of brookside is about 15b https://www.foodbev.com/news/danone-buys-remaining-stake-brookside-dairys-tanzanian-business/ . The kenyattas only own 50% of the company, danone owns 40% and a dubai fund owns 10%. Basically while the kenyattas are wealthly they're aren't worth anything close to $1b. Kenya is a poor country its only that we have alot of "hood" rich kenyans.
Hehe kenyattas are worthy more than $3 billion dollars if you value land and money hidden abroad
Land in kenya is overvalued, but if you were to calculate using "forced value", what the land would fetch if it were to be sold now, their total land holding wont be worth $300m. Hidden loot abroad, that's just conjecture. John malone in america owns more than 2m acres of land and the total value of that land is less than $500m. Owning thousands of acres in taita doesn't make kenyattas $ billionaires. They're wealthly but not $ billionaires.
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Hk - that 5K land alone in Ruiru is worth billions. If an acre is even 1/2m dollar - that is clean 2.5B dollars.
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They own 5000 acres in Nairobi West. They are about to swap wilson land with joska land. Kenyatta will give up all rights to joska land and take Wilson Airport land. Kaa will relocate wilson Airport to joska
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Hk - that 5K land alone in Ruiru is worth billions. If an acre is even 1/2m dollar - that is clean 2.5B dollars.
That land isn't worth $500k per acre . I bet you that if they were to put up just 200 acres for sale, there're no enough buyers will to pay $500k per acre, the price of land is only valued per what buyers are willing to pay and have ability to pay. Reminds me of upperhill land that was being priced at $600m per acre and now there are no buyers to pay even $1m per acre.
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Hk - that 5K land alone in Ruiru is worth billions. If an acre is even 1/2m dollar - that is clean 2.5B dollars.
That land isn't worth $500k per acre . I bet you that if they were to put up just 200 acres for sale, there're no enough buyers will to pay $500k per acre, the price of land is only valued per what buyers are willing to pay and have ability to pay. Reminds me of upperhill land that was being priced at $600m per acre and now there are no buyers to pay even $1m per acre.
I agree with that no Kenyan land is worthy that much. I have seen people sell land at ridiculous prizes.. Off think road in near Safaripark or below land will cost over 10M per plot but the rental prices are just $200 an apartment.. It would take you over 15 years to recoup initial investments, it is just better to part the money in NYSE and ride the BULL
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Which Kenya do you live in? Getting an acre for 50M is nearly impossible in Nairobi. Actually it NOT POSSIBLE. If Kenyattas own 10K land within Nairobi - you're looking at a cool 1M usd per acre - or 10B USD land worth. Obviously outside Nairobi - land start to drop value to 1M in my village..and 100K in places like Taita Taveta.
https://hassconsult.co.ke/real-estate/index.php/hass-index/13-the-hass-land-index?typ=2&layout=2
https://hassconsult.co.ke/real-estate/images/LandIndexQ42019.pdf
That land isn't worth $500k per acre . I bet you that if they were to put up just 200 acres for sale, there're no enough buyers will to pay $500k per acre, the price of land is only valued per what buyers are willing to pay and have ability to pay. Reminds me of upperhill land that was being priced at $600m per acre and now there are no buyers to pay even $1m per acre.
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It will take 150 months -- anything 10-15yrs --but the property then would have appreciated 3-4 times - beating inflation and earning your some good returns. Real estate still better than most passive investments in kenya.
I agree with that no Kenyan land is worthy that much. I have seen people sell land at ridiculous prizes.. Off think road in near Safaripark or below land will cost over 10M per plot but the rental prices are just $200 an apartment.. It would take you over 15 years to recoup initial investments, it is just better to part the money in NYSE and ride the BULL
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It will take 150 months -- anything 10-15yrs --but the property then would have appreciated 3-4 times - beating inflation and earning your some good returns. Real estate still better than most passive investments in kenya.
I agree with that no Kenyan land is worthy that much. I have seen people sell land at ridiculous prizes.. Off think road in near Safaripark or below land will cost over 10M per plot but the rental prices are just $200 an apartment.. It would take you over 15 years to recoup initial investments, it is just better to part the money in NYSE and ride the BULL
Build 40 apartments and get 200m valuation then find a broker and sell it. Let me know how that workss
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Which Kenya do you live in? Getting an acre for 50M is nearly impossible in Nairobi. Actually it NOT POSSIBLE. If Kenyattas own 10K land within Nairobi - you're looking at a cool 1M usd per acre - or 10B USD land worth. Obviously outside Nairobi - land start to drop value to 1M in my village..and 100K in places like Taita Taveta.
https://hassconsult.co.ke/real-estate/index.php/hass-index/13-the-hass-land-index?typ=2&layout=2
https://hassconsult.co.ke/real-estate/images/LandIndexQ42019.pdf
That land isn't worth $500k per acre . I bet you that if they were to put up just 200 acres for sale, there're no enough buyers will to pay $500k per acre, the price of land is only valued per what buyers are willing to pay and have ability to pay. Reminds me of upperhill land that was being priced at $600m per acre and now there are no buyers to pay even $1m per acre.
I live in the real Kenya. I don't buy the nonsense being pedaled by hassconsult and cytonn. BTW I have more than an acre in the vicinity of kenyatta's ruiru land(It's not worth $500an acre). What's is it one would invest in a poor country in Kenya to justify ROI? Try unloading 5k acres in kenya at the average price of $500k. Kenya only has about 9k usd millionaires https://www.knightfrank.co.ke/news/kenya-adds-300-dollar-millionaires-in-2018-013003.aspx and the only reason most of them are usd millionaires is cause of inflated price of real estate. So basically it would mean you'd have to get more than half to buy at least an acre at $500k, that is the absurdity of valuing 5k acres at $500k an acre.
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Which Kenya do you live in? Getting an acre for 50M is nearly impossible in Nairobi. Actually it NOT POSSIBLE. If Kenyattas own 10K land within Nairobi - you're looking at a cool 1M usd per acre - or 10B USD land worth. Obviously outside Nairobi - land start to drop value to 1M in my village..and 100K in places like Taita Taveta.
https://hassconsult.co.ke/real-estate/index.php/hass-index/13-the-hass-land-index?typ=2&layout=2
https://hassconsult.co.ke/real-estate/images/LandIndexQ42019.pdf
That land isn't worth $500k per acre . I bet you that if they were to put up just 200 acres for sale, there're no enough buyers will to pay $500k per acre, the price of land is only valued per what buyers are willing to pay and have ability to pay. Reminds me of upperhill land that was being priced at $600m per acre and now there are no buyers to pay even $1m per acre.
I live in the real Kenya. I don't buy the nonsense being pedaled by hassconsult and cytonn. BTW I have more than an acre in the vicinity of kenyatta's ruiru land(It's not worth $500an acre). What's is it one would invest in a poor country in Kenya to justify ROI? Try unloading 5k acres in kenya at the average price of $500k. Kenya only has about 9k usd millionaires https://www.knightfrank.co.ke/news/kenya-adds-300-dollar-millionaires-in-2018-013003.aspx and the only reason most of them are usd millionaires is cause of inflated price of real estate. So basically it would mean you'd have to get more than half to buy at least an acre at $500k, that is the absurdity of valuing 5k acres at $500k an acre.
You are right...karume or michuki family cannot raise 2 millions dollars in a day do that tells you a lot
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pundit is the king of pseudo science and economics
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So how much is an acre according to you if you disagree with research?
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So how much is an acre according to you if you disagree with research?
To calculate valuation of commercial land and real estate, you have to find out the intrinsic value of the land or building. That's the amount of rental income that can be earned(or how much it'd cost to rent instead of buying) from the property at the very least to the longest mortgage duration available (. This is what plato was alluding to). Take 1 acre in ruaka( UN blue zone), build 50 units 3bedroom apartments, cost of one unit conservatively 5m(valuing land at zero) , total cost 250m. The going rate is 50k per month, so monthly gross rental income 2.5m. If you were to get a mortage of 15yrs(longest available), the monthly payment would be 3m( best mortgage rate of 12%), meaning the investment would be underwater.
Actually the hasshault clearly indicates real estate investment return yields 8 to 9% annual. This means real estate investment in some parts of Nairobi yields negative ROI( you're better off buying treasury or parking money in a money market).
The koinange sold two river land at 10m per acre and this was at the hey days of real estate boom not like now. Two river land is several times more valuable than land in Ruiru. You can't de-link assets prices from the economy. In a nutshell, the average cost of 1 acre of land of kenyattas would be 2-5m before factoring what putting into market 5000 acres of land into market would do to supply side.
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My friend that river road research..real estate return the last few decades outdoes all other passive investment.Solid research.That is why most Kenyans are into it.In the meantime let me know when I can send you 2m for an acre of land in Ruiru..even 5m an acre you cannot get in kericho town.Youre looking at rental returns alone like the house is built on cardboards n will expire in 10yrs.Thst house n land annually appreciate too...in 25yrs that house will be worth 750m.
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Without any deep understanding - empirical evidence - Britam asset management, Centum and other RE investors have been minting losses. Which tells you ptoperty market is bad or saturated. It is actually much better to buy stock especially if you are a good speculator or let fund managers do it for you. Real estate peaked in 90s and is now downhill. Ties partly to population, partly GDP.
Bottomline investment ROI is based on your knowledge of the sector. So I stick to tech. Diaspora folks in 2010 did pool property investment in Kenya. Malindi and Nai. The returns are dismal while my bitcoins have shot 100K% (1000X). Bought at 10usd now at 10K usd.
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Pundit, the appreciation of prices in real estate will never be like between 2003 and 2010. It does not make logic that land in Nairobi costs the same as in Geneva. At least in Geneva you can see why the prices are so high. What is the hype about land in Nairobi?
Kenyattas sold land in Thika to some South Africans to develop Northlands. Unlike what many people think, Northlands is no longer in the hands of the Kenyattas. Now the prices the South Africans paid were so high, that the poor fellows despite developing the land they have not been able to sell any of the industrial parcels. The prices are just too high even to compete with Tatu City.
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My friend that river road research..real estate return the last few decades outdoes all other passive investment.Solid research.That is why most Kenyans are into it.In the meantime let me know when I can send you 2m for an acre of land in Ruiru..even 5m an acre you cannot get in kericho town.Youre looking at rental returns alone like the house is built on cardboards n will expire in 10yrs.Thst house n land annually appreciate too...in 25yrs that house will be worth 750m.
This is laughable. You are from the school of thought that property prices only go up irrespective of the economic activity of the area. Direct me to that solid research that compares real estate to treasury bills( safest passive investment) over decades. Honestly the mortgage (Tbills rate) can't be higher than return rate of an investment and that be a positive investment. In finance if an investment takes 15yrs to be realized you have to discount the current price. Finally selling 5000( valuing) isn't the same as selling 1 acre. Why do you suppose the koinange sold their land at 10m acre and its more valuable than ruiru?
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Pundit, the appreciation of prices in real estate will never be like between 2003 and 2010. It does not make logic that land in Nairobi costs the same as in Geneva. At least in Geneva you can see why the prices are so high. What is the hype about land in Nairobi?
Kweli kabisa, Kadudu. I visited relatives in SA with a posh beach property, very beautiful and cozy. I was shocked when they told me they had shelved their plans to sell it and then use the money for sthing in Kileleshwa: they could not afford a mere apartment in Kileleshwa! I thot then it was crazy that a Kilileshwa apartment would be more expensive that that gorgeous home, with a pool and everything and asked the same question: Kwani Nairobi/Kenya kuna nini? What exactly is driving up those prices hiyo kiasi? I knew then there was sthing fishy abt housing/land in Kenya but I did not understand what it was.
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KenyanPlato, your story on Uhuru is not very accurate. Uhuru never made a political move without consulting his mum. He had no access to funds on his own. His relationship to his brother Muhoho has always been intact, despite Uhuru's failings. Uhuru's campaigns were always financed by his mum with the blessing of all family members. They knew, if Uhuru gets to the top their investments will be paid back tenfold as is the case now since 2013.
Also the idea of naming Uhuru as his successor was not Moi's but of his son Gideon. By 1998, it was Gideon who was running the show in Kenya. He was know in the ruling circles only as "chairman". Gideon chose Uhuru as he knew the weakness of his childhood friend. The trick was to get Uhuru win the presidency and Musalia Mudavadi was to his running mate. Now Gideon planted his old friends from Musalia's homeground namley Kegodes, who were to blemish Musalia's name and he was to loose the parliamentary election. With the old constituition, Musalia would have then not be able to be named VP and here is where Gideon came in. He would have taken that role.
Moi did not name Uhuru his successor for his own sake, but for that of Gideon. These are the real dynasties and not those imagined by Ruto's allies of today.
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Nice story - except Ruto was not just passer-by - but one of the key players in making Moi name Uhuru. Yes you're right - Gideon upstaged Biwott & Saitoti - and he did that will help of Ruto - who knew politics. Gideon by then did not know one Kiswahili word...and knew zero Kalenjin word. They were rich boys with unlimited access to Moi and power levels - but with no experience how to use politically - except to loot and go play casino & polo abroad. In background was naive Raila as always thinking Moi was preparing the way for him.
KenyanPlato, your story on Uhuru is not very accurate. Uhuru never made a political move without consulting his mum. He had no access to funds on his own. His relationship to his brother Muhoho has always been intact, despite Uhuru's failings. Uhuru's campaigns were always financed by his mum with the blessing of all family members. They knew, if Uhuru gets to the top their investments will be paid back tenfold as is the case now since 2013.
Also the idea of naming Uhuru as his successor was not Moi's but of his son Gideon. By 1998, it was Gideon who was running the show in Kenya. He was know in the ruling circles only as "chairman". Gideon chose Uhuru as he knew the weakness of his childhood friend. The trick was to get Uhuru win the presidency and Musalia Mudavadi was to his running mate. Now Gideon planted his old friends from Musalia's homeground namley Kegodes, who were to blemish Musalia's name and he was to loose the parliamentary election. With the old constituition, Musalia would have then not be able to be named VP and here is where Gideon came in. He would have taken that role.
Moi did not name Uhuru his successor for his own sake, but for that of Gideon. These are the real dynasties and not those imagined by Ruto's allies of today.
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I am still waiting for your bank details and title deed for 2-5M acre of land in Ruiru.
If you're willing to stick to empirical data - then you'll know you're wrong - but you'll dismiss them as Cyton?Kenya stock market iko wapi saa hii - pure cries and wailing. My friends who went that path are the most virulent haters of UhuRuto. I hope you're not one of them.
As for treasury bonds...if you borrow the money from commercial banks...invest in a plot like majority of Kenyans....or your treasury bonds..you know how stupid that will be.
(https://cytonnreport.com/storage/research/5d3da04a644e35.66952418.png)
Kweli kabisa, Kadudu. I visited relatives in SA with a posh beach property, very beautiful and cozy. I was shocked when they told me they had shelved their plans to sell it and then use the money for sthing in Kileleshwa: they could not afford a mere apartment in Kileleshwa! I thot then it was crazy that a Kilileshwa apartment would be more expensive that that gorgeous home, with a pool and everything and asked the same question: Kwani Nairobi/Kenya kuna nini? What exactly is driving up those prices hiyo kiasi? I knew then there was sthing fishy abt housing/land in Kenya but I did not understand what it was.
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Geneva is like 50M for 2bedroom house at minimum.Nairobi is 5m. Once Nairobi is like Geneva..prices will rise too..so it's good investment in Nairobi. In Geneva you gotta be careful...or well you're basically parking your money.
Kenyattas sold 100 acres I think to South Africans - near Nairobi sewage. The prime land still intact.
Pundit, the appreciation of prices in real estate will never be like between 2003 and 2010. It does not make logic that land in Nairobi costs the same as in Geneva. At least in Geneva you can see why the prices are so high. What is the hype about land in Nairobi?
Kenyattas sold land in Thika to some South Africans to develop Northlands. Unlike what many people think, Northlands is no longer in the hands of the Kenyattas. Now the prices the South Africans paid were so high, that the poor fellows despite developing the land they have not been able to sell any of the industrial parcels. The prices are just too high even to compete with Tatu City.
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And this gragh should settle the debate in Kenya.It's not even close. Just buy land and build houses if you cannot do active investment.
https://cytonnreport.com/research/investment-options-in-kenyan-market
(https://cytonnreport.com/storage/research/5d3da894ccc412.59244855.png)
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Pundit, as usual you have to bring in Ruto's name. Ruto was a spectator in the political field in 2002. He even played a smaller role than Cyrus Jirongo. Ruto only emerged as the Kalejin kingpin when he allied himself with Raila against the will of Moi in 2005. At that time Gideon did not need Ruto but the opposite.
Nice story - except Ruto was not just passer-by - but one of the key players in making Moi name Uhuru. Yes you're right - Gideon upstaged Biwott & Saitoti - and he did that will help of Ruto - who knew politics. Gideon by then did not know one Kiswahili word...and knew zero Kalenjin word. They were rich boys with unlimited access to Moi and power levels - but with no experience how to use politically - except to loot and go play casino & polo abroad. In background was naive Raila as always thinking Moi was preparing the way for him.
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Pundit, how dare you compare Nairobi to Geneva? You have to be honest and admit Nairobi will never be like Geneva. Maybe in 2120.
Geneva is like 50M for 2bedroom house at minimum.Nairobi is 5m. Once Nairobi is like Geneva..prices will rise too..so it's good investment in Nairobi. In Geneva you gotta be careful...or well you're basically parking your money.
Kenyattas sold 100 acres I think to South Africans - near Nairobi sewage. The prime land still intact.
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This eighth at Kamakis is going for Kshs. 3.5m. That places an acre at 28. Given its location, means an acre around Ruiru - Thika road and the bypasses could be anything from 10m up to 50m.
https://www.buyrentkenya.com/listings/residential-land-for-sale-kamakis-ruiru-edl0098
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Kadudu
I know what I am talking about.
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Don't challenge me on matters politics Kadudu. I started watching Ruto in 2001. You really know very little in politics. Ruto started in 1998 (immediately after the election in 1997 dec) with Y2K young member pushing for KANU reforms (KANU B) - and when that didn't work - they formed UDM. Jirongo was first one to run back to KANU after he started becoming broke. The quartet left was Kirwa, Kapten, and Ruto.
Mid 2000 - Ruto got tapped in by Moi as Ass Min in Office of the president - and he proved himself so much - he became only Ass minister to be allowed to sit in Cabinet.I started noticing him around that 2001 - because nobody could defend KANU (with all his evils) like Ruto could and leave you nearly convinced. I knew he had rare propaganda talent there.
By 2002 - Ruto had become KANU Organizing Secretary or Director of Elections - Uhuru was one VC - and they were running circles around Saitoti and Raila (considered an outsider in KANU anyway). Gideon was CLUELESS politically but had direct access to Moi.
Come 2002 - Ruto became Minister of State in dying days of MOi - he was barely 35 yrs then.
And when KANU lost - a new election was done - in 2003 - and Ruto took KANU SEC GENERAL - Uhuru the Chairman - and Gideon Moi was nowhere to be seen :)
Raila never made Ruto. Ruto was already KANU sec general and Kalenjin leader (appointed by all sacred KANU MPS).
Ruto was only Kalenjin brave enough to talk and Kiraitu arrested him.
This was long before LDP fall out - with NAK -and we get into 2005.
Pundit, as usual you have to bring in Ruto's name. Ruto was a spectator in the political field in 2002. He even played a smaller role than Cyrus Jirongo. Ruto only emerged as the Kalejin kingpin when he allied himself with Raila against the will of Moi in 2005. At that time Gideon did not need Ruto but the opposite.
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I stated part of your comments are not correct.
Kadudu
I know what I am talking about.