Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Garliv on February 09, 2020, 09:26:28 PM
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Inevitably I expect to be labelled a Raila hater or even a Luo hater but i have noticed while Moi's excesses have been covered by media plus his "goodness.." there is one MAJOR ISSUE that has been understated so much and it's an issue which actually may have been turning point in Moi's Presidential Legacy.
That is 1982 Coup Attempt. Famous personality involved in that Coup was Raila. Stories abound how Jaramogi sent emissary to convince Moi not to execute Raila as he had others. Before the Coup Attempt no one can claim or claimed Moi was harsh or dictatorial. He was busy visiting all over the country and popularising his Nyayo Philosophy. And some Mnyonyoko wa Udongo Initiative. But after the Coup Attempt, Moi became paranoid. He surrounded himself with those he could trust. He energised security services to crack down on any and all dissenting voices. He terror reign started then and would last roughly 9 yrs before easing into multipartism.
So as the country prepares to Bury him this event of 82 seems to be swept under the carpet. It's as if Moi was born and has been brutal throughout.
Where's Raila to say something on it?
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You are being selective here. As Luos were plotting to unseat Moi, Kikuyus were in the process of cooking up their plot, simultaneously. Moi got wind of both and become ruthless. Ochuka/Raila camp rushed to beat the Kikuyu coup if you read history.
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But what came first...Moi in early 1982 passed the law that effectively made Kenya a legal one-party state...leaving those outside KANU like Jaramogi & Odinga son basically out of option. At least Raila claim that was what broke the camel back. Kenyatta had effectively banned KPU (Kenya People Union) in 1970s and Kenya had been a de-facto one-party state. So that also make Raila claim lame.
What is not in doubt was that Moi set out to be a very good and popular president. He began by releasing all political prisoners... likes of Anyona, Jaramogi and Koigi who had been locked by the Kenyatta regime. He even gave Jaramogi a job..straight from home arrest. Moi was very popular in most of Kenya because finally the insular Kikuyu regime was out and Moi had while as VP been visiting the country and holding harambees all over...here was someone who cared about the nation Kenya.
The trouble started for Moi mainly due to global economic crisis - oil crisis of early 1980s - basically brought the economy down. Kikuyus started murmuring that the unschooled Moi was bringing the economy down - Kenyatta had managed to grow the economy consistently at 6-7% or about - and now because mainly oil prices had shot through the roof - the economy was barely doing 4%.Moi gov also had to institutes austerity measures that became unpopular...and I think by 1982...the signs were not good...Kenya was to head to elections in 1983/84..5yrs since Moi had been confirmed as president-elect (un-opposed)...and Moi was increasingly getting concerned.
Bottom line as long as Moi came from a small tribe - he had no option except crush the opposition (popular support in Africa means tribal support).
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In a way i agree. Partially. Because Kikuyus then didn't give Moi much confidence. Yes. There is records that some were planning a a coup but once Raila's Coup Attempt became a reality beyond conspiratorial schemes then Moi got justification to be brutal and protect himself. From there on there was no stopping him.
Truly he followed Jomo's Nyayo who had de facto banned other parties. Maybe Jomo felt confidence enough that he didn't have to enact a law for it but Moi had no such luxury.
While I appreciate Moi Legacy is complex 82 Coup Attempt unleashed the deadly Moi. Without 82 Coup maybe his Presidency would have turned out very differently.
But what came first...Moi in early 1982 passed the law that effectively made Kenya a legal one-party state...leaving those outside KANU like Jaramogi & Odinga son basically out of option. At least Raila claim that was what broke the camel back. Kenyatta had effectively banned KPU (Kenya People Union) in 1970s and Kenya had been a de-facto one-party state. So that also make Raila claim lame.
What is not in doubt was that Moi set out to be a very good and popular president. He began by releasing all political prisoners... likes of Anyona, Jaramogi and Koigi who had been locked by the Kenyatta regime. He even gave Jaramogi a job..straight from home arrest. Moi was very popular in most of Kenya because finally the insular Kikuyu regime was out and Moi had while as VP been visiting the country and holding harambees all over...here was someone who cared about the nation Kenya.
The trouble started for Moi mainly due to global economic crisis - oil crisis of early 1980s - basically brought the economy down. Kikuyus started murmuring that the unschooled Moi was bringing the economy down - Kenyatta had managed to grow the economy consistently at 6-7% or about - and now because mainly oil prices had shot through the roof - the economy was barely doing 4%.Moi gov also had to institutes austerity measures that became unpopular...and I think by 1982...the signs were not good...Kenya was to head to elections in 1983/84..5yrs since Moi had been confirmed as president-elect (un-opposed)...and Moi was increasingly getting concerned.
Bottom line as long as Moi came from a small tribe - he had no option except crush the opposition (popular support in Africa means tribal support).
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I have heard of this Kikuyu plot. Njonjo Inquiry dealt with it. But i take Njonjo inquiry as a way for Moi to be rid of a powerful power broker and set example. But is there any confirmation of it? What's not in dispute Ochuka/Raila attempt took place.
Actually there were numerous and countless rumours of coup and plotters after that. No one knew real one and one manufactured by Special Branch goons.
You are being selective here. As Luos were plotting to unseat Moi, Kikuyus were in the process of cooking up their plot, simultaneously. Moi got wind of both and become ruthless. Ochuka/Raila camp rushed to beat the Kikuyu coup if you read history.
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There were three coups
Njonjo Coup - He had mercernaries sourced and equipment ready in Laikipia .. Boers were his planners
Airforce - Coup
Army and GEMA coup
Njonjo coup was to happen in September
So airforce moved their plans to counter him
Political leaders ie Jaramogi and Raila were informed by their intelligence informers
SO they were waiting to see if they could gain
Airforce was not ready and the army crashed them with 12 hours
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There were three coups
Njonjo Coup - He had mercernaries sourced and equipment ready in Laikipia .. Boers were his planners
Airforce - Coup
Army and GEMA coup
Njonjo coup was to happen in September
So airforce moved their plans to counter him
Political leaders ie Jaramogi and Raila were informed by their intelligence informers
SO they were waiting to see if they could gain
Airforce was not ready and the army crushed them within 12 hours
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Before 82 Moi had somehow convinced himself intellectuals were the problem. He was harassing Lecturers and Student leaders. He made Kenya a de jure one party state after Jaramogi made his speech about Multipartism in Africa while he was in the UK. Moi interpreted that Jaramogi was about to form political party. Hence Section 2A.
But once the Coup happened it was like a God-given opportunity to restructure whole government into his image. It was the best piece of luck he could ever hope for..
This Njonjo Coup plans if you have some independent sources/confirmation would appreciate.
There were three coups
Njonjo Coup - He had mercernaries sourced and equipment ready in Laikipia .. Boers were his planners
Airforce - Coup
Army and GEMA coup
Njonjo coup was to happen in September
So airforce moved their plans to counter him
Political leaders ie Jaramogi and Raila were informed by their intelligence informers
SO they were waiting to see if they could gain
Airforce was not ready and the army crashed them with 12 hours
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I think university students and lecturers refused the austerity measures that the ministry of education (Kamotho) was forced to implement by world bank/IMF - not necessarily Moi. That became the first resistance to Moi gov.
Interesting take on Jaramgoi speech - I was wondering why Moi had to change the law.
Generally, the early 80s was tough - because of global hyperinflation - that spread discontent all over including the army and Moi like most Africa regimes were sitting ducks. Ochuka had the airforce for taking - because the servicemen were genuinely unhappy. They were of course unaware of Raila and Jaramogi plan.
I think Jaramogi -Raila haven't stopped trying to take power - they have been very unlucky not to get it.
Before 82 Moi had somehow convinced himself intellectuals were the problem. He was harassing Lecturers and Student leaders. He made Kenya a de jure one party state after Jaramogi made his speech about Multipartism in Africa while he was in the UK. Moi interpreted that Jaramogi was about to form political party. Hence Section 2A.
But once the Coup happened it was like a God-given opportunity to restructure whole government into his image. It was the best piece of luck he could ever hope for..
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Before 82 Moi had somehow convinced himself intellectuals were the problem. He was harassing Lecturers and Student leaders. He made Kenya a de jure one party state after Jaramogi made his speech about Multipartism in Africa while he was in the UK. Moi interpreted that Jaramogi was about to form political party. Hence Section 2A.
But once the Coup happened it was like a God-given opportunity to restructure whole government into his image. It was the best piece of luck he could ever hope for..
This Njonjo Coup plans if you have some independent sources/confirmation would appreciate.
There were three coups
Njonjo Coup - He had mercernaries sourced and equipment ready in Laikipia .. Boers were his planners
Airforce - Coup
Army and GEMA coup
Njonjo coup was to happen in September
So airforce moved their plans to counter him
Political leaders ie Jaramogi and Raila were informed by their intelligence informers
SO they were waiting to see if they could gain
Airforce was not ready and the army crashed them with 12 hours
Check govt inquiry in 1983.. It was open secret among the people in the know that time .. they were scared stiff that Njonjo would crack down on them. Njonjo hated GEMA mafia. He saw them as unruly bullies that needed to be jailed. He used to order Kenya to arrest them for tax evasion and harrass them.
So akina Karume were scared stiff
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I wish Moi would have authored his biography. To reveal all and how he made some of the decisions he made. This guy took power when Kenyatta Deep State (Mafia) just hated him. They belittled him. Then there were agitators and opposition like Jaramogi. And those had a huge section of the population behind them or potentially they could get their tribesmen behind them.
Then there were global factors such as cold war. US/UK machinations as they infiltrated and influenced Jomo Kenyatta. Protection of their business and political interests.
I view Jaramogi as principled opposition. He was fighting for changes he believed in but there was how far he could go. He couldn't go as far as organise revolution or seek a coup. But Raila is different. I think Raila can get into any scheme to get power. I judge him as someone who schemes and schemes and has no boundaries he can't cross.
I think university students and lecturers refused the austerity measures that the ministry of education (Kamotho) was forced to implement by world bank/IMF - not necessarily Moi. That became the first resistance to Moi gov.
Interesting take on Jaramgoi speech - I was wondering why Moi had to change the law.
Generally, the early 80s was tough - because of global hyperinflation - that spread discontent all over including the army and Moi like most Africa regimes were sitting ducks. Ochuka had the airforce for taking - because the servicemen were genuinely unhappy. They were of course unaware of Raila and Jaramogi plan.
I think Jaramogi -Raila haven't stopped trying to take power - they have been very unlucky not to get it.
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Jaramogi was worse - he plotted several coups including 1982 one.He really wanted power - that is why he was pleading for a six minute of power in 90s.
To the American intelligence, Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, Kenya’s first vice president, was a power-hungry politician who was working behind the back of the country’s founding President, Jomo Kenyatta, to gain power and there was a real possibility that he could have toppled Kenyatta, possibly in a coup.
CIA had him covered -To the American intelligence, Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, Kenya’s first vice president, was a power-hungry politician who was working behind the back of the country’s founding President, Jomo Kenyatta, to gain power and there was a real possibility that he could have toppled Kenyatta, possibly in a coup.
I wish Moi would have authored his biography. To reveal all and how he made some of the decisions he made. This guy took power when Kenyatta Deep State (Mafia) just hated him. They belittled him. Then there were agitators and opposition like Jaramogi. And those had a huge section of the population behind them or potentially they could get their tribesmen behind them.
Then there were global factors such as cold war. US/UK machinations as they infiltrated and influenced Jomo Kenyatta. Protection of their business and political interests.
I view Jaramogi as principled opposition. He was fighting for changes he believed in but there was how far he could go. He couldn't go as far as organise revolution or seek a coup. But Raila is different. I think Raila can get into any scheme to get power. I judge him as someone who schemes and schemes and has no boundaries he can't cross.
I think university students and lecturers refused the austerity measures that the ministry of education (Kamotho) was forced to implement by world bank/IMF - not necessarily Moi. That became the first resistance to Moi gov.
Interesting take on Jaramgoi speech - I was wondering why Moi had to change the law.
Generally, the early 80s was tough - because of global hyperinflation - that spread discontent all over including the army and Moi like most Africa regimes were sitting ducks. Ochuka had the airforce for taking - because the servicemen were genuinely unhappy. They were of course unaware of Raila and Jaramogi plan.
I think Jaramogi -Raila haven't stopped trying to take power - they have been very unlucky not to get it.
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It shows your little knowledge of history.
Anyone who did not sing the American song in the 50's till 70's was under CIA radar. Only the American puppets like Jomo Kenyatta were left out and nationalists like Julius Nyerere were left out. Today one can see the results of Jomo's betrayal to his people with the ethnic thinking of most bloggers here very intrenched in their DNA.
Jaramogi was worse - he plotted several coups including 1982 one.He really wanted power - that is why he was pleading for a six minute of power in 90s.
To the American intelligence, Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, Kenya’s first vice president, was a power-hungry politician who was working behind the back of the country’s founding President, Jomo Kenyatta, to gain power and there was a real possibility that he could have toppled Kenyatta, possibly in a coup.
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So CIA made Jaramogi stage or attempt all those coups? Including 1982 where he was aware. You know Jaramogi spent a lot of time in prison (house arrest) because he was like Raila now - a community leader - but he attempted with help of Russians, Cubans and Chinese to overthrow kenya gov severally.
It shows your little knowledge of history.
Anyone who did not sing the American song in the 50's till 70's was under CIA radar. Only the American puppets like Jomo Kenyatta were left out and nationalists like Julius Nyerere were left out. Today one can see the results of Jomo's betrayal to his people with the ethnic thinking of most bloggers here very intrenched in their DNA.
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There was no attempted coup by Jaramogi. No proof of those arms. Jomo let a lot of propaganda against his perceived political enemies. Can you explain how before Tom Mboya's assasination he was being denounced in the corridors of power as being a CIA spy?
It was just convenient for the regime to potrait its opponents the way it wanted.
Read even the history of Republic of Congo with the knowledge available today. Patrice Lumumba was perceived to be a communist although he never had any formal contacts with the Soviet regime. His only crime was to try advocate policies that were patriotic to his people and not those of colonial masters.
So CIA made Jaramogi stage or attempt all those coups? Including 1982 where he was aware. You know Jaramogi spent a lot of time in prison (house arrest) because he was like Raila now - a community leader - but he attempted with help of Russians, Cubans and Chinese to overthrow kenya gov severally.
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Jaramogi believed in some policies which at the time were toxic. More like Socialist. And that in itself was a grave sin to the Americans and Brits as they engaged in mortal kombat with USSR and Socialist/Communism ideology. And given Jaramogi's tendency to not hold back his opinion he was considered dangerous.
To be honest I think CIA manufactured a lot of propaganda to get rid of him and therefore most of what he was accused of was designed to achieve that end. I also believe IF truly some tangible evidence had been found to link Jaramogi to such plots, Kenyatta or CIA would have had killed. No doubt.
For '82 Coup, I read some participant was quoted as stating that Jaramogi had warned his son Raila not to get involved in such. How far he himself eventually got involved am not sure.
Kenyatta had his own political motives to demonize Jaramogi as the latter was vocal and critical of Jomo's thieving at a time when no one asked any question.
Also Raila had disputes l, for example, with his father on running of Ford-K as Jaramogi was not considered brave or radical enough.
So CIA made Jaramogi stage or attempt all those coups? Including 1982 where he was aware. You know Jaramogi spent a lot of time in prison (house arrest) because he was like Raila now - a community leader - but he attempted with help of Russians, Cubans and Chinese to overthrow kenya gov severally.
It shows your little knowledge of history.
Anyone who did not sing the American song in the 50's till 70's was under CIA radar. Only the American puppets like Jomo Kenyatta were left out and nationalists like Julius Nyerere were left out. Today one can see the results of Jomo's betrayal to his people with the ethnic thinking of most bloggers here very intrenched in their DNA.
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Tom Mboya murder was so needless. He wasn't a threat. He was popular. Articulate. Hard to even try and understand why it had to be.
There was no attempted coup by Jaramogi. No proof of those arms. Jomo let a lot of propaganda against his perceived political enemies. Can you explain how before Tom Mboya's assasination he was being denounced in the corridors of power as being a CIA spy?
It was just convenient for the regime to potrait its opponents the way it wanted.
Read even the history of Republic of Congo with the knowledge available today. Patrice Lumumba was perceived to be a communist although he never had any formal contacts with the Soviet regime. His only crime was to try advocate policies that were patriotic to his people and not those of colonial masters.
So CIA made Jaramogi stage or attempt all those coups? Including 1982 where he was aware. You know Jaramogi spent a lot of time in prison (house arrest) because he was like Raila now - a community leader - but he attempted with help of Russians, Cubans and Chinese to overthrow kenya gov severally.
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OMG! it is dot.com all over again-Raila this, Raila that all day long. I thought Raila was Kwisha.
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Add 'brilliant' and you have your answer. There is a reason a bimbo like Mdvd or Kalonzo lives a long peaceful life.
Tom Mboya murder was so needless. He wasn't a threat. He was popular. Articulate. Hard to even try and understand why it had to be.
There was no attempted coup by Jaramogi. No proof of those arms. Jomo let a lot of propaganda against his perceived political enemies. Can you explain how before Tom Mboya's assasination he was being denounced in the corridors of power as being a CIA spy?
It was just convenient for the regime to potrait its opponents the way it wanted.
Read even the history of Republic of Congo with the knowledge available today. Patrice Lumumba was perceived to be a communist although he never had any formal contacts with the Soviet regime. His only crime was to try advocate policies that were patriotic to his people and not those of colonial masters.
So CIA made Jaramogi stage or attempt all those coups? Including 1982 where he was aware. You know Jaramogi spent a lot of time in prison (house arrest) because he was like Raila now - a community leader - but he attempted with help of Russians, Cubans and Chinese to overthrow kenya gov severally.
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Jaramogi was aware..infact the big debate was who btw Ochuka and Jaramogi would take over.
Jaramogi believed in some policies which at the time were toxic. More like Socialist. And that in itself was a grave sin to the Americans and Brits as they engaged in mortal kombat with USSR and Socialist/Communism ideology. And given Jaramogi's tendency to not hold back his opinion he was considered dangerous.
To be honest I think CIA manufactured a lot of propaganda to get rid of him and therefore most of what he was accused of was designed to achieve that end. I also believe IF truly some tangible evidence had been found to link Jaramogi to such plots, Kenyatta or CIA would have had killed. No doubt.
For '82 Coup, I read some participant was quoted as stating that Jaramogi had warned his son Raila not to get involved in such. How far he himself eventually got involved am not sure.
Kenyatta had his own political motives to demonize Jaramogi as the latter was vocal and critical of Jomo's thieving at a time when no one asked any question.
Also Raila had disputes l, for example, with his father on running of Ford-K as Jaramogi was not considered brave or radical enough.
So CIA made Jaramogi stage or attempt all those coups? Including 1982 where he was aware. You know Jaramogi spent a lot of time in prison (house arrest) because he was like Raila now - a community leader - but he attempted with help of Russians, Cubans and Chinese to overthrow kenya gov severally.
It shows your little knowledge of history.
Anyone who did not sing the American song in the 50's till 70's was under CIA radar. Only the American puppets like Jomo Kenyatta were left out and nationalists like Julius Nyerere were left out. Today one can see the results of Jomo's betrayal to his people with the ethnic thinking of most bloggers here very intrenched in their DNA.
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Kenyan coup plotter Joseph Ogidi Obuon deeply implicated former Prime Minister Raila Odinga and his father Jaramogi Oginga Odinga in the 1982 failed coup, according to police statements seen by the Saturday Nation 26 years after he was hanged for treason.
https://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Confessions-of-a-soldier-hanged-for-rising-against-Moi/1064-1935408-d366uyz/index.html
Ogidi then told the police how Jaramogi enquired about how many recruits the plotters had and committed to funding them. He was assured that recruitment was going on in other bases besides Nanyuki. Odinga also recommended that they expand their recruitment to other Kenyan tribes and not solely rely on Luo servicemen.
This accounts mirrors the narrative in Raila’s biography: Raila Odinga: An Enigma in Kenyan Politics by Nigerian writer Babafemi Badejo. The book documents Jaramogi and Raila’s role in the coup attempt.
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Jaramogi Oginga Odinga was placed under house arrest. Raila Odinga was placed in detention after treason charges against him were dropped.
Jaramogi was detained for 14 months under house arrest in 1980s
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Noted. Subject to confirmation later date. I have had Raila biography for a while but for some reason haven't had energy or will to go through it. Soon.
Kenyan coup plotter Joseph Ogidi Obuon deeply implicated former Prime Minister Raila Odinga and his father Jaramogi Oginga Odinga in the 1982 failed coup, according to police statements seen by the Saturday Nation 26 years after he was hanged for treason.
https://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Confessions-of-a-soldier-hanged-for-rising-against-Moi/1064-1935408-d366uyz/index.html
Ogidi then told the police how Jaramogi enquired about how many recruits the plotters had and committed to funding them. He was assured that recruitment was going on in other bases besides Nanyuki. Odinga also recommended that they expand their recruitment to other Kenyan tribes and not solely rely on Luo servicemen.
This accounts mirrors the narrative in Raila’s biography: Raila Odinga: An Enigma in Kenyan Politics by Nigerian writer Babafemi Badejo. The book documents Jaramogi and Raila’s role in the coup attempt.
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Personally I did not consider a coup against a dictatorial regime like Moi's to be a crime.
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A coup is not a crime id if you succeed. But Raila and Company failed and therefore face firing squad or hangman.
Seriously, in 82 Coup was not justified. A lot of people died for nothing. Suffered for nothing. And changed country's direction for worse. It was nothing but naked grab for power.
Nothing to celebrate. Or applaud.
Personally I did not consider a coup against a dictatorial regime like Moi's to be a crime.
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The coup failed and the country moved on. It is not the worst thing that ever happened to Kenya. Move on, there are bigger fish to fry.
A coup is not a crime id if you succeed. But Raila and Company failed and therefore face firing squad or hangman.
Seriously, in 82 Coup was not justified. A lot of people died for nothing. Suffered for nothing. And changed country's direction for worse. It was nothing but naked grab for power.
Nothing to celebrate. Or applaud.
Personally I did not consider a coup against a dictatorial regime like Moi's to be a crime.
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How many people died or were seriously injured due to Kibaki's power grabbing in 2007? You do not mention it here and busy citing an attempted coup in 1982.
People have moved on and I hope a regime like Moi's deserved what it got.
A coup is not a crime id if you succeed. But Raila and Company failed and therefore face firing squad or hangman.
Seriously, in 82 Coup was not justified. A lot of people died for nothing. Suffered for nothing. And changed country's direction for worse. It was nothing but naked grab for power.
Nothing to celebrate. Or applaud.
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Moi's brute and barbarism is actually blamed on Raila who triggered him like an automaton. If you weigh the good and the bad of Moi he comes up pretty short. I have argued here before that he invented "TKK" and democratised corruption. The economy really tanked under Moi. The lost opportunity - when people contrast the Asian Tigers - Moi squandered Kenya's golden years.
Moi ERROR is Kenya's dark age.
How many people died or were seriously injured due to Kibaki's power grabbing in 2007? You do not mention it here and busy citing an attempted coup in 1982.
People have moved on and I hope a regime like Moi's deserved what it got.
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If you read history about the time the attempted coup happened you will notice that a coup was just a question of time. There were several groups out there hatching up plans, but the Kenya Airforce amateurs were quicker in the race than the others.
Moi was an error and it will take generations for Kenya to recover from his misrule.
Moi's brute and barbarism is actually blamed on Raila who triggered him like an automaton. If you weigh the good and the bad of Moi he comes up pretty short. I have argued here before that he invented "TKK" and democratised corruption. The economy really tanked under Moi. The lost opportunity - when people contrast the Asian Tigers - Moi squandered Kenya's golden years.
Moi ERROR is Kenya's dark age.
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There were things that were beyond moi - even if he was to be perfect - one of them high population of 70s and 80s - Kenyans were breeding like rats. Yes moi mismanaged the economy and politics and was really not prepared for leadership considering his limited education. He did an okay job. One wishes we had males zenawi or William ruto then...or of course kibaki or mboya. Raila and Jaramogi would have BEEN FAR WORSE.
Moi's brute and barbarism is actually blamed on Raila who triggered him like an automaton. If you weigh the good and the bad of Moi he comes up pretty short. I have argued here before that he invented "TKK" and democratised corruption. The economy really tanked under Moi. The lost opportunity - when people contrast the Asian Tigers - Moi squandered Kenya's golden years.
Moi ERROR is Kenya's dark age.
How many people died or were seriously injured due to Kibaki's power grabbing in 2007? You do not mention it here and busy citing an attempted coup in 1982.
People have moved on and I hope a regime like Moi's deserved what it got.
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You are right but there is no reason to praise the guy just for breathing and carrying an ivory fimbo. It is not an achievement for a C-in-C to keep the peace - that like praising you for walking your kid to school. I mean likes of Kagame and Meles or even M7 really found their countries much worse and dire but quickly turned things around. Moi was a spectacular failure. KSh to Dollar plummeted from 10 to 80 - a freefall - inflation was through the roof. From 70s by 90s a civil servant or say farmer earning 20k fell from comfortable life to a pauper. That time the fool was obsessed with jailing Jaramogi and Matibas and lining his pockets. In the end what a leader leaves behind after basic peace and stability is the economic opportunities. Moi is a sorry era that cannot be whitewashed.
Ruto and Raila just play politics but I think Uhuru really believes in the meaningless eulogies of my mentor bla bla. Moi equally believed and saw no evil in Jomo with his nyayo nonsense. Bure kabisa.
There were things that were beyond moi - even if he was to be perfect - one of them high population of 70s and 80s - Kenyans were breeding like rats. Yes moi mismanaged the economy and politics and was really not prepared for leadership considering his limited education. He did an okay job. One wishes we had males zenawi or William ruto then...or of course kibaki or mboya. Raila and Jaramogi would have BEEN FAR WORSE.
Moi's brute and barbarism is actually blamed on Raila who triggered him like an automaton. If you weigh the good and the bad of Moi he comes up pretty short. I have argued here before that he invented "TKK" and democratised corruption. The economy really tanked under Moi. The lost opportunity - when people contrast the Asian Tigers - Moi squandered Kenya's golden years.
Moi ERROR is Kenya's dark age.
How many people died or were seriously injured due to Kibaki's power grabbing in 2007? You do not mention it here and busy citing an attempted coup in 1982.
People have moved on and I hope a regime like Moi's deserved what it got.
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Pundit comparing Raila or Jaramogi - that just conjecture - they never had power. Moi was there, did that with dismal results. Not even his modest education can excuse him.
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You don't need to be CEO for us to judge you. We can judge Raila based on his track record. If someone makes a bad MCA -- he ain't going to be a better PORK.
Pundit comparing Raila or Jaramogi - that just conjecture - they never had power. Moi was there, did that with dismal results. Not even his modest education can excuse him.
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Pundit comparing Raila or Jaramogi - that just conjecture - they never had power. Moi was there, did that with dismal results. Not even his modest education can excuse him.
Baba has evolved though. He is now firmly in love with the plutocrats. He would make a different leader today than he would have in the 80s.
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Which leadership was he onto in 80s?
Baba has evolved though. He is now firmly in love with the plutocrats. He would make a different leader today than he would have in the 80s.
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Which leadership was he onto in 80s?
Baba has evolved though. He is now firmly in love with the plutocrats. He would make a different leader today than he would have in the 80s.
In the 80s he was more of a radical. More likely to shake up things in fundamental ways if he attained power. He was more of an outsider.
I don't know if it's age, or having a bigger piece of the pie, maybe both, but a Raila Presidency today is not likely to be the major disruption that GEMA and other detractors always fear about him.
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Make sense...
In the 80s he was more of a radical. More likely to shake up things in fundamental ways if he attained power. He was more of an outsider.
I don't know if it's age, or having a bigger piece of the pie, maybe both, but a Raila Presidency today is not likely to be the major disruption that GEMA and other detractors always fear about him.
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There is more to leadership than just "economic performance."
Raila has his heart and mind in the right place. Social justice, equity, liberal leaning. It easy to see Raila is a liberal democrat - contrasted to say Ruto and his family/African values ala Moi conservativism.
Equally easy to conceive - Raila would cement ideology to breach the tribe. As a tool to change power dynamics. Most likely by classism/entitlements, feminism, gayism, minorityism - Leftist pillars. Ruto would ferment tribalism to consolidate power like Moi.
Now I don't know what "track record" has you place Ruto with Meles and Raila beneath Moi? Kibaki big infra binge - bypasses, highways - had Raila prints all over it. He was pulling Telkom dude arap Ng'eny house down to build Eastern bypass. Also the slum upgrade program. Very successful. It Raila brain Ruto SGR copycatted without introspection for an arm and a leg with dismal results.
Ruto best record is CDF, tightening college QA, ending admission slag. Nothing tangible. Under Jubilee 1 we have a mountain of debt as the outstanding legacy. But in record time Ruto has spread the gospel of corruption everywhere. Uhuru is making a name just cutting down Rutoism - free-for-all looting.
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Jubilee has done better than all previous Kenyan regime..in nearly all fronts.. starting from the economy to infrastructure..Uhuru has to sustain this and secure his legacy.Raila legacy is well known...big promises..zero delivery
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Raila and Uhuru are solving the enduring African problem : division and instability. Ruto as usual is the No guy.
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The father of constitution keep fathering it. If you know Raila has been here since 1960s - you would not be excited. All the 90s were spent on agitating for new constitution. All the 80s. All the 70s. All the 2000s and all 2010s...and now 2020s. Please CONSTITUTION is not problem. Britain doesn't have one.
We need to stop talking and start doing. We need to do simple things...like waking up and going to work from 8-5am - and actually working. Ruto is kind of the guy who does the doing more than the talking.
We have practical problems that require practical solutions.
There is reason why countries that have developed recently are mostly dictatorship - from South Asians (Taiwan,Singapore, South Korea, Malaysia, name them, see China vs India) to likes of Rwanda and Ethiopia - because those regimes GET PEOPLE TO STOP TALKING AND START DOING.
Any lazy idiot can talk a storm - but who will actually roll their sleeves and get dirty - that is hard work if like the spoilt brats UhuRailaGideon arrive at office mid-day nursing hangover - and have to sit through marathon meetings and make thousands phonecalls. Poverty will not be eradicated with parliamentary system of gov - but people building roads, schools, homes, digging their farms, etc.
Kenya has allowed a snake oil saleman to keep talking the same bullshiet over and over - and when given an opportunity - he deliver nearly zero. That is why kibera remained a shit hole like bondo....and Okoth Ken got in there...and with same CDF...fixed a lot...because everyone know Okoth was a doer.
Kibra need this...not long lecture about system of gov...by the same monkeys..
(https://ocdn.eu/pulscms-transforms/1/OCAk9kpTURBXy83ZjU1ZWE5YThmYTVmOTJlNzM3MjdhYjk3YzQ3NTM1Yi5qcGeSlQLNAxQAwsOVAgDNAvjCw4GhMAE)
Raila and Uhuru are solving the enduring African problem : division and instability. Ruto as usual is the No guy.
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To Judge Moi appreciate the historical and geopolitical realities of his day.
1. I don't know whether any other African country had attempted or managed to have multipartism. Therefore he would have been hesitant and without much example to enumerate.
2. Economically Africa economy was designed to serve the colonial masters and superpower, US. It is still is but then it was worse. Therefore he wouldn't have been able to change much. Just like Kenyatta had adopted economic model dictated or left by Britain. Besides there was very little alternative knowledge/education to implement anything else.
3. For corruption, Kenyatta was not much difference. A professor of Anthropology at Nairobi University gave a theory about this TKK (toa kitu kidogo). It goes like this: in African culture (most of them anyway) when one pay a visit to someone either for some service, request or whatever first they are welcomed with "chai" and something to "chase away hunger.." then afterwards they deal with the "real issue/agenda" of the meeting. In a commercialised society TKK takes place of that tradition.
When "chief" or "village Richman" or "senior mzee" invited people to his home or to a gathering he had to show/flaunt his wealth and influence. Translated into modern commercialised society the "big men" have to give handouts, offer some favours, donate cash here and there in a way to flaunt and be recognised.
And this still works today. An honest hard working civil servant who relies on his salary may not achieve much in terms of big houses or cars or anything. But among "his people" and in his "village" he is dismissed as a useless fella who "had big position" and did "nothing with it" and "didn't even help his people..." "huyo mtu ni bure kabisaa.."
My point this corruption this and this TKK is deeply ingrained that we need to study ourselves. We can keep "fighting corruption" from dawn to dusk with such attitudes the fight may never be worn. That's why even civil servants at EACC or DPP would need "mshirikiane" so as "msaidiane..."
4. Finally, remember cold war era. It shaped a lot of what African leaders did or did not do. And it shaped Africa's destiny. In politics and economics.
Then neoliberal economic theory that was forced onto Kenya didn't help. Indeed i would argue it's the worst thing ever!
Koreans didn't follow IMF/WB to get where they are despite what some Western/Kenyan sources claim.
Moi's brute and barbarism is actually blamed on Raila who triggered him like an automaton. If you weigh the good and the bad of Moi he comes up pretty short. I have argued here before that he invented "TKK" and democratised corruption. The economy really tanked under Moi. The lost opportunity - when people contrast the Asian Tigers - Moi squandered Kenya's golden years.
Moi ERROR is Kenya's dark age.
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You have really bought into this Raila/Uhuru thing? You will be disappointed. Soon or later one of them will realise it will not work then they part ways. That will be the day.
Raila and Uhuru are solving the enduring African problem : division and instability. Ruto as usual is the No guy.
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BTW...Speaking of which...Odingas were never anywhere around the coup. Raila just took advantage of it.
Inevitably I expect to be labelled a Raila hater or even a Luo hater but i have noticed while Moi's excesses have been covered by media plus his "goodness.." there is one MAJOR ISSUE that has been understated so much and it's an issue which actually may have been turning point in Moi's Presidential Legacy.
That is 1982 Coup Attempt. Famous personality involved in that Coup was Raila. Stories abound how Jaramogi sent emissary to convince Moi not to execute Raila as he had others. Before the Coup Attempt no one can claim or claimed Moi was harsh or dictatorial. He was busy visiting all over the country and popularising his Nyayo Philosophy. And some Mnyonyoko wa Udongo Initiative. But after the Coup Attempt, Moi became paranoid. He surrounded himself with those he could trust. He energised security services to crack down on any and all dissenting voices. He terror reign started then and would last roughly 9 yrs before easing into multipartism.
So as the country prepares to Bury him this event of 82 seems to be swept under the carpet. It's as if Moi was born and has been brutal throughout.
Where's Raila to say something on it?
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Tall buildings and shiny rail are ok but not panacea by themselves. The reason performance wobble or rise and fall with the individual leader Moi or Kibaki - is because of opaque unaccoutable system. You can see how devolution has taken tarmac to forsaken Isiolo... reforms are critical. Leadership is not hyperactivity. It brainwork. That's why lame Kibaki could dramatically outperform the omnipresent Moi. The country- roaming Mr Harambee himself.
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Those are your wishes not the reality. You will be disappointed when the reforms are complete.
You have really bought into this Raila/Uhuru thing? You will be disappointed. Soon or later one of them will realise it will not work then they part ways. That will be the day.
Raila and Uhuru are solving the enduring African problem : division and instability. Ruto as usual is the No guy.
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All factors considered Moi was a catastrophe. Even Pundit admits this. One could toe the UK or US line but still perform. Moi can only be credited with a semblance of peace/stability... which as C in C is akin to D score - basic function like breathing. Moronic reasoning like destroying Gema economy to neuter them politically. Or instigating tribal clashes. MOI ACTIVELY DESTROYED THE ECONOMY. That's barbarism 101.
To Judge Moi appreciate the historical and geopolitical realities of his day.
1. I don't know whether any other African country had attempted or managed to have multipartism. Therefore he would have been hesitant and without much example to enumerate.
2. Economically Africa economy was designed to serve the colonial masters and superpower, US. It is still is but then it was worse. Therefore he wouldn't have been able to change much. Just like Kenyatta had adopted economic model dictated or left by Britain. Besides there was very little alternative knowledge/education to implement anything else.
3. For corruption, Kenyatta was not much difference. A professor of Anthropology at Nairobi University gave a theory about this TKK (toa kitu kidogo). It goes like this: in African culture (most of them anyway) when one pay a visit to someone either for some service, request or whatever first they are welcomed with "chai" and something to "chase away hunger.." then afterwards they deal with the "real issue/agenda" of the meeting. In a commercialised society TKK takes place of that tradition.
When "chief" or "village Richman" or "senior mzee" invited people to his home or to a gathering he had to show/flaunt his wealth and influence. Translated into modern commercialised society the "big men" have to give handouts, offer some favours, donate cash here and there in a way to flaunt and be recognised.
And this still works today. An honest hard working civil servant who relies on his salary may not achieve much in terms of big houses or cars or anything. But among "his people" and in his "village" he is dismissed as a useless fella who "had big position" and did "nothing with it" and "didn't even help his people..." "huyo mtu ni bure kabisaa.."
My point this corruption this and this TKK is deeply ingrained that we need to study ourselves. We can keep "fighting corruption" from dawn to dusk with such attitudes the fight may never be worn. That's why even civil servants at EACC or DPP would need "mshirikiane" so as "msaidiane..."
4. Finally, remember cold war era. It shaped a lot of what African leaders did or did not do. And it shaped Africa's destiny. In politics and economics.
Then neoliberal economic theory that was forced onto Kenya didn't help. Indeed i would argue it's the worst thing ever!
Koreans didn't follow IMF/WB to get where they are despite what some Western/Kenyan sources claim.
Moi's brute and barbarism is actually blamed on Raila who triggered him like an automaton. If you weigh the good and the bad of Moi he comes up pretty short. I have argued here before that he invented "TKK" and democratised corruption. The economy really tanked under Moi. The lost opportunity - when people contrast the Asian Tigers - Moi squandered Kenya's golden years.
Moi ERROR is Kenya's dark age.
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Robina, Hiyo ni ukweli. This 'magic' never works never has. Uhuru cannot deliver Raila to state house, period. How would he, even if Mama Ngina ordered? But even more interesting is how Raila would believe this lie. Now, I am not saying this because I support Ruto. I am saying this because anyone who believes that Uhuru suddenly changed his mind and decides to support his #1 enemy is naïve. In New-Kanu, Moi even made Raila the Party SG and he believed the 'Maheni'. If Uhuru is for real, he doesn't have the support of the Kikuyu community. I will live this here...UK is proving to be a big liar. Because of him, we live to fight again. He should have let him keep his Monday protests that were going to die a natural death.
Those are your wishes not the reality. You will be disappointed when the reforms are complete.
You have really bought into this Raila/Uhuru thing? You will be disappointed. Soon or later one of them will realise it will not work then they part ways. That will be the day.
Raila and Uhuru are solving the enduring African problem : division and instability. Ruto as usual is the No guy.
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I see you are another dispassionate pundit with a horse in the race. What is Uhuru's reason for the Handshake? Just maandamano? He is selling it all the way in America. People have been impeached for it.
Robina, Hiyo ni ukweli. This 'magic' never works never has. Uhuru cannot deliver Raila to state house, period. How would he, even if Mama Ngina ordered? But even more interesting is how Raila would believe this lie. Now, I am not saying this because I support Ruto. I am saying this because anyone who believes that Uhuru suddenly changed his mind and decides to support his #1 enemy is naïve. In New-Kanu, Moi even made Raila the Party SG and he believed the 'Maheni'. If Uhuru is for real, he doesn't have the support of the Kikuyu community. I will live this here...UK is proving to be a big liar. Because of him, we live to fight again. He should have let him keep his Monday protests that were going to die a natural death.
Those are your wishes not the reality. You will be disappointed when the reforms are complete.
You have really bought into this Raila/Uhuru thing? You will be disappointed. Soon or later one of them will realise it will not work then they part ways. That will be the day.
Raila and Uhuru are solving the enduring African problem : division and instability. Ruto as usual is the No guy.