Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: KenyanPlato on February 06, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
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It is over for Uhuru in Central. I just had a lengthy meeting with several folks on the ground and things are toast for uhunye...
They hate the bastard. His only option is staying in power illegally and he will be killed
So get used to thief ruto as your next president
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How is it that poverty fell from 46% to 36% over a 15 year period and at the same time Kikuyus are celebrating Ruto, Uhuru's right hand man in the country economic boom? In simple terms, 4 out of every 10 Kenyans are still poor. Somehow the Kikuyus are supposed to celebrate that.
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It is over for Uhuru in Central. I just had a lengthy meeting with several folks on the ground and things are toast for uhunye...
They hate the bastard. His only option is staying in power illegally and he will be killed
So get used to thief ruto as your next president
You are a charlatan who knows and meets everyone at the drop of a hat :D How do you meet "people from the ground" in between truck trips in Delaware? A few days ago you were all over about the end of Ruto. Don't torture the fence like Pastor vooke. At least Garliv and Pundit can pretend to have ears on the ground even when it is clearly hot air.
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We will know objectively things have changed when Ruto and Tangatanga stop kissing Uhuru's behind. Instead all we see are defections from Ruto to Handshake. Hizi hadithi nyingi zenu ati vetting :) You kiss arse and tell such lies when you are desperate.
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Winning Kikuyus hearts is not enough to win an election. IEBC is out of his reach. As Bonny Khalwale once said when defecting to Ruto's camp, "Ruto will be declared the winner in 2022 even if he looses the election". Now Khalwale took it for granted Ruto had IEBC in his pocket. Is it the case now?
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Of course, the election can be rigged, but we are far from there. If you go with that mentality - you lose before you start. Rigging can only work on the margins.
Winning Kikuyus hearts is not enough to win an election. IEBC is out of his reach. As Bonny Khalwale once said when defecting to Ruto's camp, "Ruto will be declared the winner in 2022 even if he looses the election". Now Khalwale took it for granted Ruto had IEBC in his pocket. Is it the case now?
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Opinion pollsters seem to support our truck driver. The thing is Robina. Uhuru is asking Kikuys an untenable proposition to choose btw LOVING HIM and loving 1M of their relatives who inevitably will come in harm ways if the UhuRuto deal comes apart. Kikuyus I believe would have dropped Ruto if there were no such real consequences. It would have been the usual - done and dusted. Ruto is not making things easy because he is being sly - not giving Uhuru a reason - to says " I had to do it".
In short Uhuru is going to face a rebellion - like NIS have told him severally - and he better listen. You cannot build a bridge by destroying another. To his credit, Uhuru seem busy in Central - looking for love there.
If he wants to continue - he can only continue under ONE CONDITION - he doesn't destroy the 10yrs bridges that GEMA and RV have built.
That basically mean he has to work with Ruto to find accommodation post-2022 (although our strong recommendation is he retires)...something he clearly isn't prepared having been led astray by Kibicho and Jezebel.
If BABA MOI retired - who is Uhuru not to retire??????????????????????????
You are a charlatan who knows and meets everyone at the drop of a hat :D How do you meet "people from the ground" in between truck trips in Delaware? A few days ago you were all over about the end of Ruto. Don't torture the fence like Pastor vooke. At least Garliv and Pundit can pretend to have ears on the ground even when it is clearly hot air.
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It is over for Uhuru in Central. I just had a lengthy meeting with several folks on the ground and things are toast for uhunye...
They hate the bastard. His only option is staying in power illegally and he will be killed
So get used to thief ruto as your next president
You are a charlatan who knows and meets everyone at the drop of a hat :D How do you meet "people from the ground" in between truck trips in Delaware? A few days ago you were all over about the end of Ruto. Don't torture the fence like Pastor vooke. At least Garliv and Pundit can pretend to have ears on the ground even when it is clearly hot air.
Matusi kibao. I never thought kikuyus hatred of Uhuru would be this deep. Raila is even hated more. Uhuru needs to ditch raila and work quitely for the next 3 years until his retirement in 2022.
Your people will have to wait 100 years to ever produce president. As it stands now ruto has his 10 years and then another kikuyu will take over. Rinse recycle.
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Uhuru is actually doing worse than "risking 1m Kikuyu" which to be honest he doesn't care that much about. Indeed right now he and his team would be very happy if RV tribal clashes erupt. They would blame Ruto and use that to portray him as violent. And believe you me, a helicopter would land at Sugoi to take Ruto to Hague. By that they would have gotten rid of him with claims he had to face ICC.
In short am even telling you these people can even set false flags from Njoro, Timboroa, Ravine, all the way to Burnt Forest. It will not be first time violence is used to advance some agenda..
That aside, the worst Uhuru is doing is long term damage of Parliamentary System and even Federal System (Majimbo). Kikuyus wherever they are would be rendered minorities. Then they have no enough MPs to negotiate anything of substance. This is the worst ever he can do.
Then he brings Raila with him. A man Kikuyu elite plus Uhuru have been demonizing for decades. A man whom they judged impossible to work with during Kibaki's time. A man who is blamed for taking Ruto/Uhuru to the Hague. A man who at the height of PEV 2007/08 was known as Arap Mibei. A man who was not even apologetic about it. A man who tried to excuse Kiambaa burning on BBC. Somehow Uhuru now decide Raila is the Man.
Even more infuriating to people is that All these Uhuru is doing for HIMSELF. HIM. ALONE. TO BE EXECUTIVE PM. It's his own self interests. There is no national interests to amend constitution and install regions or PM. None whatsoever. His own base (people) get shafted for generations to come for him to be PM..
This guy Uhuru better get more security as @KenyanPlato said. People are fed up with him.
Indeed ata sometimes i personally think am in some kind of alternative universe. Because i cannot figure out rationale for Uhuru behaviour.
Opinion pollsters seem to support our truck driver. The thing is Robina. Uhuru is asking Kikuys an untenable proposition to choose btw LOVING HIM and loving 1M of their relatives who inevitably will come in harm ways if the UhuRuto deal comes apart. Kikuyus I believe would have dropped Ruto if there were no such real consequences. It would have been the usual - done and dusted. Ruto is not making things easy because he is being sly - not giving Uhuru a reason - to says " I had to do it".
In short Uhuru is going to face a rebellion - like NIS have told him severally - and he better listen. You cannot build a bridge by destroying another. To his credit, Uhuru seem busy in Central - looking for love there.
If he wants to continue - he can only continue under ONE CONDITION - he doesn't destroy the 10yrs bridges that GEMA and RV have built.
That basically mean he has to work with Ruto to find accommodation post-2022 (although our strong recommendation is he retires)...something he clearly isn't prepared having been led astray by Kibicho and Jezebel.
If BABA MOI retired - who is Uhuru not to retire??????????????????????????
You are a charlatan who knows and meets everyone at the drop of a hat :D How do you meet "people from the ground" in between truck trips in Delaware? A few days ago you were all over about the end of Ruto. Don't torture the fence like Pastor vooke. At least Garliv and Pundit can pretend to have ears on the ground even when it is clearly hot air.
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There has been no "Uhuru vs Ruto" poll. Ruto dicy clout was actually built on the next-in-line unbeatable facade. This has been shattered like a mirror. As Uhuru 2.0 becomes apparent - we are seeing a one-by-one exodus countrywide. You know the long list of deserters and defectors as we all do. This shows the ground which politicians listen to is tilting away from your boy. Those NFD leaders meeting Raila past midnight are a trend. It a redux of Raila in Kalenjin 2009-12. By 2013 "Arap Mibei" had a handful Kosgeys and Sirmas who all went home. Ruto is still "Njamba" for a few more months as the cheers fizzle into few quiet murmurs.
About PEV 2 - Ruto has been dared but is too clever for the bait. It would be his worst blunder after mlolongo.
Opinion pollsters seem to support our truck driver. The thing is Robina. Uhuru is asking Kikuys an untenable proposition to choose btw LOVING HIM and loving 1M of their relatives who inevitably will come in harm ways if the UhuRuto deal comes apart. Kikuyus I believe would have dropped Ruto if there were no such real consequences. It would have been the usual - done and dusted. Ruto is not making things easy because he is being sly - not giving Uhuru a reason - to says " I had to do it".
Hearsay and guesswork again about NIS deep state we just debunked :) - Ruto has no more 411 there - bloke been shut out everywhere. Uhuru has been in Mt Kenya many times and recently unleashed nyahunyo to shake off Tangatanga desperados. Some propaganda was attempted about vetting of raia but was very poorly executed. Spin is an art Tangatanga are yet to master.
In short Uhuru is going to face a rebellion - like NIS have told him severally - and he better listen. You cannot build a bridge by destroying another. To his credit, Uhuru seem busy in Central - looking for love there.
If he wants to continue - he can only continue under ONE CONDITION - he doesn't destroy the 10yrs bridges that GEMA and RV have built.
That basically mean he has to work with Ruto to find accommodation post-2022 (although our strong recommendation is he retires)...something he clearly isn't prepared having been led astray by Kibicho and Jezebel.
Baba Moi colluded with AG Wako - not even a BBI committee of wazee - to extend his stay by 10 years. Kalenjin still voted him to a man. Moi is a very bad analogy to use at this juncture :) - he upstaged Jomo-Jaramogi 1963 MOU through Handshake with Jomo. He then engineered Jaramogi exit and replaced him as VP. The rest is history.
If BABA MOI retired - who is Uhuru not to retire??????????????????????????
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Wakili, When Uhuru got 30B from sgr, there was no turning back, wanjigi was the first to be betrayed.We have to kick them out by force.
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Robina you're all over the map eti moi engineered jaramogi exit...that is new one.Murumbi maybe did that and then resigned.Moi was picked to replace murumbi and mostly to placate the Kalenjin to facilitate the land grab
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As long as mt Kenya and RV aka jubilee are opposed to bbi 2.0..it simply won't happen.The NASA coalition will max out at 45% as always.
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Robina you're all over the map eti moi engineered jaramogi exit...that is new one.Murumbi maybe did that and then resigned.Moi was picked to replace murumbi and mostly to placate the Kalenjin to facilitate the land grab
Moi was one of Jomo dogs who fiercely attacked Jaramogi in prep for the hanging. He got in sirkali through Handshake. Kanu was a Jomo-Jaramogi marriage before Moi and Kadu joined.
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Uhuru has sinned all over. Take the case of Milk which farmers across Mt. Kenya and beyond know very well. Kenyatta family acquired almost all milk plants in the region and plus others in RV. Githunguri farmers actually threatened to rather pour their milk into drainage than to Kenyattas. Then Kenyattas forced down the price of milk to like 20bob a litter or less which they are still paying farmers. . While they then sell a liter of milk for 100bob or more. This is minus other extracted milk products. Kenyattas then import their own powder from their Uganda plant and that devastate Kenyans. For long farmers been crying and beseeching the government/mutongoria to do something. But eventually Uhuru says he cannot understand why people are broke!
Now when he wants some political favour is when he's visiting the region. He arrives with lots of anger issues and people start to wonder what he's up to... By the time he decree milk prices to be at such and such a price, everyone is damn angry. What the heck!, were it not for public outcry they had Milk Bill ready to be passed by Parliament that would have FORCED every farmer to take milk to their milk plants. It set to criminalise selling/buying of milk among neighbours!
For SGR not only pocketing some percentage but by using taxpayers money and getting the country into further debt he gets his own SGR that ends exactly at Kenyatta Farm, Kendong Ranch. Some of that ranch they sold to government for industrial park and pocketed like 2.5B. Then he abuse everyone by proclaiming whoever think that SGR is railway to nowhere is a fool. And it's true: We are fools because to be honest that SGR does increase the value of their property. And it's Kenyans who will pay for those Chinese loans, not Kenyattas.
There are litany of issues that the common mwananchi can see and relate to. Then after all that he has no time to listen to those on the ground. He listens to Raila and how the two can make a comeback. Total lunacy.
Wakili, When Uhuru got 30B from sgr, there was no turning back, wanjigi was the first to be betrayed.We have to kick them out by force.
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Bwana RV, correction here. Uhuru gt more than 40B alone from SGR Phase I. You forgot the locomotives came in later. Also he will cash in for the next 30 years as his Chinamen run the SGR.
SGR Phase II must have brought him another 15B.
Wakili, When Uhuru got 30B from sgr, there was no turning back, wanjigi was the first to be betrayed.We have to kick them out by force.
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Robina is becoming unhinged
Garliv
Yours is a load of bullshit
Pundit
Your people will never again beat kikuyus. Next time you try that shit we will teach you a lesson
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Yes it possible. Standard asking rate for local/project management is anything 5-10% of the contract. That is Wanjigi domain.
Bwana RV, correction here. Uhuru gt more than 40B alone from SGR Phase I. You forgot the locomotives came in later. Also he will cash in for the next 30 years as his Chinamen run the SGR.
SGR Phase II must have brought him another 15B.
Wakili, When Uhuru got 30B from sgr, there was no turning back, wanjigi was the first to be betrayed.We have to kick them out by force.
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Kelele mingi. It is as if Kikuyus did not know Kenyattas before 2013. Uhuru was not voted for by the Kikuyus because he is a economic genious, but to save his neck from the ICC. People should be happy that it came to be and now they should lay on the bed they made.
Uhuru has sinned all over. Take the case of Milk which farmers across Mt. Kenya and beyond know very well. Kenyatta family acquired almost all milk plants in the region and plus others in RV. Githunguri farmers actually threatened to rather pour their milk into drainage than to Kenyattas. Then Kenyattas forced down the price of milk to like 20bob a litter or less which they are still paying farmers. . While they then sell a liter of milk for 100bob or more. This is minus other extracted milk products. Kenyattas then import their own powder from their Uganda plant and that devastate Kenyans. For long farmers been crying and beseeching the government/mutongoria to do something. But eventually Uhuru says he cannot understand why people are broke!
Now when he wants some political favour is when he's visiting the region. He arrives with lots of anger issues and people start to wonder what he's up to... By the time he decree milk prices to be at such and such a price, everyone is damn angry. What the heck!, were it not for public outcry they had Milk Bill ready to be passed by Parliament that would have FORCED every farmer to take milk to their milk plants. It set to criminalise selling/buying of milk among neighbours!
For SGR not only pocketing some percentage but by using taxpayers money and getting the country into further debt he gets his own SGR that ends exactly at Kenyatta Farm, Kendong Ranch. Some of that ranch they sold to government for industrial park and pocketed like 2.5B. Then he abuse everyone by proclaiming whoever think that SGR is railway to nowhere is a fool. And it's true: We are fools because to be honest that SGR does increase the value of their property. And it's Kenyans who will pay for those Chinese loans, not Kenyattas.
There are litany of issues that the common mwananchi can see and relate to. Then after all that he has no time to listen to those on the ground. He listens to Raila and how the two can make a comeback. Total lunacy.
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The political leaders are to blame.Don't ever mistake silence for weakness.You just evicted 60,000 people from Narok. Poor people. From their land. Because of Politics. The future warriors will emerge from them. You even refuses for them to build IDP camps.
Don't incite war then come crying ICC ICCC - Ruto is warlord a WarLORD! a WarLORD! KONY! AMIN ! The butcher! Dead man Walking Alive!
https://www.nation.co.ke/counties/narok/All-set-for-round-two-of-Mau-evictions/1183318-5257202-xg96tiz/index.html
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ouxyqV0K07AqYIHkmp33CuHbBDrJO2DQ8R_F0xsjzQl9vVuK3jKQAJq7SbQ8vPMfLroW6lAY4-4uMBDg13v-vzNEcDUmog=s750)
Pundit
Your people will never again beat kikuyus. Next time you try that shit we will teach you a lesson
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Uhuru 1.0 set to be national leader. Uhuru 2.0 is attempting to be a tribal leader.It so sad seeing someone lose home support and go to the extend of exclusively visiting central & speaking kikuyu - and getting zero love back.
And that is just central - let him attempt to stay in power beyond 2022 - and he will get it from rest of kenya. He will definitely not become Executive PM. Raila will get the support he will need to topple him day 0. Moi couldn't do it..what make Uhuru think he can pull it. Why would Raila take ceremonial PORK and not have the whole thing...
The SGR - avoids Mt kenya region - not an inch in Kiambu or Nakuru (Naivasha is actually deep in Narok) - so basically biggest infrastructure project didn't directly benefit his people but his fat account. I think he is now panicked enough he might just build dual carriageway from Kenol to Nyeri and MauMau road.In any case we kalenjin have few complains - the road and electricity expansion were welcomed.
Uhuru has sinned all over. Take the case of Milk which farmers across Mt. Kenya and beyond know very well. Kenyatta family acquired almost all milk plants in the region and plus others in RV. Githunguri farmers actually threatened to rather pour their milk into drainage than to Kenyattas. Then Kenyattas forced down the price of milk to like 20bob a litter or less which they are still paying farmers. . While they then sell a liter of milk for 100bob or more. This is minus other extracted milk products. Kenyattas then import their own powder from their Uganda plant and that devastate Kenyans. For long farmers been crying and beseeching the government/mutongoria to do something. But eventually Uhuru says he cannot understand why people are broke!
Now when he wants some political favour is when he's visiting the region. He arrives with lots of anger issues and people start to wonder what he's up to... By the time he decree milk prices to be at such and such a price, everyone is damn angry. What the heck!, were it not for public outcry they had Milk Bill ready to be passed by Parliament that would have FORCED every farmer to take milk to their milk plants. It set to criminalise selling/buying of milk among neighbours!
For SGR not only pocketing some percentage but by using taxpayers money and getting the country into further debt he gets his own SGR that ends exactly at Kenyatta Farm, Kendong Ranch. Some of that ranch they sold to government for industrial park and pocketed like 2.5B. Then he abuse everyone by proclaiming whoever think that SGR is railway to nowhere is a fool. And it's true: We are fools because to be honest that SGR does increase the value of their property. And it's Kenyans who will pay for those Chinese loans, not Kenyattas.
There are litany of issues that the common mwananchi can see and relate to. Then after all that he has no time to listen to those on the ground. He listens to Raila and how the two can make a comeback. Total lunacy.
Wakili, When Uhuru got 30B from sgr, there was no turning back, wanjigi was the first to be betrayed.We have to kick them out by force.
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Winning Kikuyus hearts is not enough to win an election. IEBC is out of his reach. As Bonny Khalwale once said when defecting to Ruto's camp, "Ruto will be declared the winner in 2022 even if he looses the election". Now Khalwale took it for granted Ruto had IEBC in his pocket. Is it the case now?
Facts. Unless you blow out the opponent, IEBC gets to decide.
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Uhuru is actually doing worse than "risking 1m Kikuyu" which to be honest he doesn't care that much about. Indeed right now he and his team would be very happy if RV tribal clashes erupt. They would blame Ruto and use that to portray him as violent. And believe you me, a helicopter would land at Sugoi to take Ruto to Hague. By that they would have gotten rid of him with claims he had to face ICC.
In short am even telling you these people can even set false flags from Njoro, Timboroa, Ravine, all the way to Burnt Forest. It will not be first time violence is used to advance some agenda..
That aside, the worst Uhuru is doing is long term damage of Parliamentary System and even Federal System (Majimbo). Kikuyus wherever they are would be rendered minorities. Then they have no enough MPs to negotiate anything of substance. This is the worst ever he can do.
Then he brings Raila with him. A man Kikuyu elite plus Uhuru have been demonizing for decades. A man whom they judged impossible to work with during Kibaki's time. A man who is blamed for taking Ruto/Uhuru to the Hague. A man who at the height of PEV 2007/08 was known as Arap Mibei. A man who was not even apologetic about it. A man who tried to excuse Kiambaa burning on BBC. Somehow Uhuru now decide Raila is the Man.
Even more infuriating to people is that All these Uhuru is doing for HIMSELF. HIM. ALONE. TO BE EXECUTIVE PM. It's his own self interests. There is no national interests to amend constitution and install regions or PM. None whatsoever. His own base (people) get shafted for generations to come for him to be PM..
This guy Uhuru better get more security as @KenyanPlato said. People are fed up with him.
Indeed ata sometimes i personally think am in some kind of alternative universe. Because i cannot figure out rationale for Uhuru behaviour.
Opinion pollsters seem to support our truck driver. The thing is Robina. Uhuru is asking Kikuys an untenable proposition to choose btw LOVING HIM and loving 1M of their relatives who inevitably will come in harm ways if the UhuRuto deal comes apart. Kikuyus I believe would have dropped Ruto if there were no such real consequences. It would have been the usual - done and dusted. Ruto is not making things easy because he is being sly - not giving Uhuru a reason - to says " I had to do it".
In short Uhuru is going to face a rebellion - like NIS have told him severally - and he better listen. You cannot build a bridge by destroying another. To his credit, Uhuru seem busy in Central - looking for love there.
If he wants to continue - he can only continue under ONE CONDITION - he doesn't destroy the 10yrs bridges that GEMA and RV have built.
That basically mean he has to work with Ruto to find accommodation post-2022 (although our strong recommendation is he retires)...something he clearly isn't prepared having been led astray by Kibicho and Jezebel.
If BABA MOI retired - who is Uhuru not to retire??????????????????????????
You are a charlatan who knows and meets everyone at the drop of a hat :D How do you meet "people from the ground" in between truck trips in Delaware? A few days ago you were all over about the end of Ruto. Don't torture the fence like Pastor vooke. At least Garliv and Pundit can pretend to have ears on the ground even when it is clearly hot air.
I wont purport to speak for all kikuyus unlike some who do especially when they are not kikuyu and have been so anti kikuyu until handshake happened. But this much I do know, most of us who have roots outside central province will not join this charade when we have worked so hard to cultivate a working relationship with our neighbours in rift valley. In both 92 and 97 clashes kikuyus were victims all the way from far flung areas of West pokot as Siyoi, kacheliba and Makutano to Enoosupukia in maasailand. The climax was 2007 tribal clashes. Personally I had to evacuate my family only after the military provided safe passage and escort. I got a call from my cousin sometime after who had been active in politics for some time and the first thing he told me was that we had to start thinking seriously about blindly following our folk in Itherero" when it came to elections. He informed me that there was a local movement among elders to start serious negotiations with kalenjin elders about a united and shared political future. That was pretty much the beggining of a future Jubilee government. Now let me explain a simple reason why most of us will stick with Ruto as opposed to what pundits are saying here. Most of us have lots of properties in Rift valley acquired over decades. Despite moving my family to Naivasha I still run several businesses in the north rift and theres no way am giving that up to benefit somebody else. My family has been in cargo business on the northern corridor for a long time and unlike Robina and others who purport to know what we want I go to Kenya every 3-4 months and have several trucks running all the way to south sudan. I get to interact with the common mwananchi all the time starting from the local traders to the drivers and turn boys and believe me selling Raila to them for Uhuru will be an uphill task. Most of us figured out long ago that we have to fend for ourselves and that means negotiating the best deals with our neighbours. That is the basis of that good relationship being experienced in west pokot( Remember the governor there repremanding a guy who was protesting him appointing a kikuyu in his govt) In uasin Gishu among the most powerful MCAs is the guy fro Huruma who has a very good working relationship with mandago. In Nakuru its basically a 50/50 kikuyu kalenjin government. Now tell me why a kikuyu in this areas would throw that out the window so that Uhuru can continue raking in billions in family deals. As they say in politics there are no permanent anything apart from interests. Now tell me why we should vote against our interests with a clear mind.
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The said "peaceful working relationship" is another term for blackmail. Kales have the Kikuyus by the balls. PEV in RV is just a question of time as land becomes scarce with the growing population. Kikuyus cannot appease the Kales with their votes forever and what happens when 80% of Kikuyus vote for Ruto and he still looses? :D :D :D Is the pact still valid?
I wont purport to speak for all kikuyus unlike some who do especially when they are not kikuyu and have been so anti kikuyu until handshake happened. But this much I do know, most of us who have roots outside central province will not join this charade when we have worked so hard to cultivate a working relationship with our neighbours in rift valley. In both 92 and 97 clashes kikuyus were victims all the way from far flung areas of West pokot as Siyoi, kacheliba and Makutano to Enoosupukia in maasailand. The climax was 2007 tribal clashes. Personally I had to evacuate my family only after the military provided safe passage and escort. I got a call from my cousin sometime after who had been active in politics for some time and the first thing he told me was that we had to start thinking seriously about blindly following our folk in Itherero" when it came to elections. He informed me that there was a local movement among elders to start serious negotiations with kalenjin elders about a united and shared political future. That was pretty much the beggining of a future Jubilee government. Now let me explain a simple reason why most of us will stick with Ruto as opposed to what pundits are saying here. Most of us have lots of properties in Rift valley acquired over decades. Despite moving my family to Naivasha I still run several businesses in the north rift and theres no way am giving that up to benefit somebody else. My family has been in cargo business on the northern corridor for a long time and unlike Robina and others who purport to know what we want I go to Kenya every 3-4 months and have several trucks running all the way to south sudan. I get to interact with the common mwananchi all the time starting from the local traders to the drivers and turn boys and believe me selling Raila to them for Uhuru will be an uphill task. Most of us figured out long ago that we have to fend for ourselves and that means negotiating the best deals with our neighbours. That is the basis of that good relationship being experienced in west pokot( Remember the governor there repremanding a guy who was protesting him appointing a kikuyu in his govt) In uasin Gishu among the most powerful MCAs is the guy fro Huruma who has a very good working relationship with mandago. In Nakuru its basically a 50/50 kikuyu kalenjin government. Now tell me why a kikuyu in this areas would throw that out the window so that Uhuru can continue raking in billions in family deals. As they say in politics there are no permanent anything apart from interests. Now tell me why we should vote against our interests with a clear mind.
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To quote Ruto - Land is not the issue - the issue is politics. Kalenjin have put down a huge downpayment by supporting Uhuru thrice. I expect Uhuru to be first one to support Ruto if he is truly interested in having a united country. Anything else will be see as betrayal.If you recall - the agreement was for Uhuru to support Ruto - and try to convince his people. But the reverse is happening - the people are trying to force Uhuru back.
The said "peaceful working relationship" is another term for blackmail. Kales have the Kikuyus by the balls. PEV in RV is just a question of time as land becomes scarce with the growing population. Kikuyus cannot appease the Kales with their votes forever and what happens when 80% of Kikuyus vote for Ruto and he still looses? :D :D :D Is the pact still valid?
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You need to do to Kenyatta what we did to Moi. Basically identity what is community and personal interest - and separate the two. And it start by people supporting alternative organized leadership.
I wont purport to speak for all kikuyus unlike some who do especially when they are not kikuyu and have been so anti kikuyu until handshake happened. But this much I do know, most of us who have roots outside central province will not join this charade when we have worked so hard to cultivate a working relationship with our neighbours in rift valley. In both 92 and 97 clashes kikuyus were victims all the way from far flung areas of West pokot as Siyoi, kacheliba and Makutano to Enoosupukia in maasailand. The climax was 2007 tribal clashes. Personally I had to evacuate my family only after the military provided safe passage and escort. I got a call from my cousin sometime after who had been active in politics for some time and the first thing he told me was that we had to start thinking seriously about blindly following our folk in Itherero" when it came to elections. He informed me that there was a local movement among elders to start serious negotiations with kalenjin elders about a united and shared political future. That was pretty much the beggining of a future Jubilee government. Now let me explain a simple reason why most of us will stick with Ruto as opposed to what pundits are saying here. Most of us have lots of properties in Rift valley acquired over decades. Despite moving my family to Naivasha I still run several businesses in the north rift and theres no way am giving that up to benefit somebody else. My family has been in cargo business on the northern corridor for a long time and unlike Robina and others who purport to know what we want I go to Kenya every 3-4 months and have several trucks running all the way to south sudan. I get to interact with the common mwananchi all the time starting from the local traders to the drivers and turn boys and believe me selling Raila to them for Uhuru will be an uphill task. Most of us figured out long ago that we have to fend for ourselves and that means negotiating the best deals with our neighbours. That is the basis of that good relationship being experienced in west pokot( Remember the governor there repremanding a guy who was protesting him appointing a kikuyu in his govt) In uasin Gishu among the most powerful MCAs is the guy fro Huruma who has a very good working relationship with mandago. In Nakuru its basically a 50/50 kikuyu kalenjin government. Now tell me why a kikuyu in this areas would throw that out the window so that Uhuru can continue raking in billions in family deals. As they say in politics there are no permanent anything apart from interests. Now tell me why we should vote against our interests with a clear mind.
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Uhuru is actually doing worse than "risking 1m Kikuyu" which to be honest he doesn't care that much about. Indeed right now he and his team would be very happy if RV tribal clashes erupt. They would blame Ruto and use that to portray him as violent. And believe you me, a helicopter would land at Sugoi to take Ruto to Hague. By that they would have gotten rid of him with claims he had to face ICC.
In short am even telling you these people can even set false flags from Njoro, Timboroa, Ravine, all the way to Burnt Forest. It will not be first time violence is used to advance some agenda..
That aside, the worst Uhuru is doing is long term damage of Parliamentary System and even Federal System (Majimbo). Kikuyus wherever they are would be rendered minorities. Then they have no enough MPs to negotiate anything of substance. This is the worst ever he can do.
Then he brings Raila with him. A man Kikuyu elite plus Uhuru have been demonizing for decades. A man whom they judged impossible to work with during Kibaki's time. A man who is blamed for taking Ruto/Uhuru to the Hague. A man who at the height of PEV 2007/08 was known as Arap Mibei. A man who was not even apologetic about it. A man who tried to excuse Kiambaa burning on BBC. Somehow Uhuru now decide Raila is the Man.
Even more infuriating to people is that All these Uhuru is doing for HIMSELF. HIM. ALONE. TO BE EXECUTIVE PM. It's his own self interests. There is no national interests to amend constitution and install regions or PM. None whatsoever. His own base (people) get shafted for generations to come for him to be PM..
This guy Uhuru better get more security as @KenyanPlato said. People are fed up with him.
Indeed ata sometimes i personally think am in some kind of alternative universe. Because i cannot figure out rationale for Uhuru behaviour.
Opinion pollsters seem to support our truck driver. The thing is Robina. Uhuru is asking Kikuys an untenable proposition to choose btw LOVING HIM and loving 1M of their relatives who inevitably will come in harm ways if the UhuRuto deal comes apart. Kikuyus I believe would have dropped Ruto if there were no such real consequences. It would have been the usual - done and dusted. Ruto is not making things easy because he is being sly - not giving Uhuru a reason - to says " I had to do it".
In short Uhuru is going to face a rebellion - like NIS have told him severally - and he better listen. You cannot build a bridge by destroying another. To his credit, Uhuru seem busy in Central - looking for love there.
If he wants to continue - he can only continue under ONE CONDITION - he doesn't destroy the 10yrs bridges that GEMA and RV have built.
That basically mean he has to work with Ruto to find accommodation post-2022 (although our strong recommendation is he retires)...something he clearly isn't prepared having been led astray by Kibicho and Jezebel.
If BABA MOI retired - who is Uhuru not to retire??????????????????????????
You are a charlatan who knows and meets everyone at the drop of a hat :D How do you meet "people from the ground" in between truck trips in Delaware? A few days ago you were all over about the end of Ruto. Don't torture the fence like Pastor vooke. At least Garliv and Pundit can pretend to have ears on the ground even when it is clearly hot air.
So Uhuru is supposed to build bridges with a man whose career is hinged on holding 1m Kikuyu at ransom? How can anybody guarantee that he will not change his mind? Uhuru has changed his mind about Ruto. How can anybody guarantee Ruto as president will not change his mind about the 1m at ransom?
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Uhuru is actually doing worse than "risking 1m Kikuyu" which to be honest he doesn't care that much about. Indeed right now he and his team would be very happy if RV tribal clashes erupt. They would blame Ruto and use that to portray him as violent. And believe you me, a helicopter would land at Sugoi to take Ruto to Hague. By that they would have gotten rid of him with claims he had to face ICC.
In short am even telling you these people can even set false flags from Njoro, Timboroa, Ravine, all the way to Burnt Forest. It will not be first time violence is used to advance some agenda..
That aside, the worst Uhuru is doing is long term damage of Parliamentary System and even Federal System (Majimbo). Kikuyus wherever they are would be rendered minorities. Then they have no enough MPs to negotiate anything of substance. This is the worst ever he can do.
Then he brings Raila with him. A man Kikuyu elite plus Uhuru have been demonizing for decades. A man whom they judged impossible to work with during Kibaki's time. A man who is blamed for taking Ruto/Uhuru to the Hague. A man who at the height of PEV 2007/08 was known as Arap Mibei. A man who was not even apologetic about it. A man who tried to excuse Kiambaa burning on BBC. Somehow Uhuru now decide Raila is the Man.
Even more infuriating to people is that All these Uhuru is doing for HIMSELF. HIM. ALONE. TO BE EXECUTIVE PM. It's his own self interests. There is no national interests to amend constitution and install regions or PM. None whatsoever. His own base (people) get shafted for generations to come for him to be PM..
This guy Uhuru better get more security as @KenyanPlato said. People are fed up with him.
Indeed ata sometimes i personally think am in some kind of alternative universe. Because i cannot figure out rationale for Uhuru behaviour.
Opinion pollsters seem to support our truck driver. The thing is Robina. Uhuru is asking Kikuys an untenable proposition to choose btw LOVING HIM and loving 1M of their relatives who inevitably will come in harm ways if the UhuRuto deal comes apart. Kikuyus I believe would have dropped Ruto if there were no such real consequences. It would have been the usual - done and dusted. Ruto is not making things easy because he is being sly - not giving Uhuru a reason - to says " I had to do it".
In short Uhuru is going to face a rebellion - like NIS have told him severally - and he better listen. You cannot build a bridge by destroying another. To his credit, Uhuru seem busy in Central - looking for love there.
If he wants to continue - he can only continue under ONE CONDITION - he doesn't destroy the 10yrs bridges that GEMA and RV have built.
That basically mean he has to work with Ruto to find accommodation post-2022 (although our strong recommendation is he retires)...something he clearly isn't prepared having been led astray by Kibicho and Jezebel.
If BABA MOI retired - who is Uhuru not to retire??????????????????????????
You are a charlatan who knows and meets everyone at the drop of a hat :D How do you meet "people from the ground" in between truck trips in Delaware? A few days ago you were all over about the end of Ruto. Don't torture the fence like Pastor vooke. At least Garliv and Pundit can pretend to have ears on the ground even when it is clearly hot air.
I wont purport to speak for all kikuyus unlike some who do especially when they are not kikuyu and have been so anti kikuyu until handshake happened. But this much I do know, most of us who have roots outside central province will not join this charade when we have worked so hard to cultivate a working relationship with our neighbours in rift valley. In both 92 and 97 clashes kikuyus were victims all the way from far flung areas of West pokot as Siyoi, kacheliba and Makutano to Enoosupukia in maasailand. The climax was 2007 tribal clashes. Personally I had to evacuate my family only after the military provided safe passage and escort. I got a call from my cousin sometime after who had been active in politics for some time and the first thing he told me was that we had to start thinking seriously about blindly following our folk in Itherero" when it came to elections. He informed me that there was a local movement among elders to start serious negotiations with kalenjin elders about a united and shared political future. That was pretty much the beggining of a future Jubilee government. Now let me explain a simple reason why most of us will stick with Ruto as opposed to what pundits are saying here. Most of us have lots of properties in Rift valley acquired over decades. Despite moving my family to Naivasha I still run several businesses in the north rift and theres no way am giving that up to benefit somebody else. My family has been in cargo business on the northern corridor for a long time and unlike Robina and others who purport to know what we want I go to Kenya every 3-4 months and have several trucks running all the way to south sudan. I get to interact with the common mwananchi all the time starting from the local traders to the drivers and turn boys and believe me selling Raila to them for Uhuru will be an uphill task. Most of us figured out long ago that we have to fend for ourselves and that means negotiating the best deals with our neighbours. That is the basis of that good relationship being experienced in west pokot( Remember the governor there repremanding a guy who was protesting him appointing a kikuyu in his govt) In uasin Gishu among the most powerful MCAs is the guy fro Huruma who has a very good working relationship with mandago. In Nakuru its basically a 50/50 kikuyu kalenjin government. Now tell me why a kikuyu in this areas would throw that out the window so that Uhuru can continue raking in billions in family deals. As they say in politics there are no permanent anything apart from interests. Now tell me why we should vote against our interests with a clear mind.
This is precisely why BBI is needed. BBI is like Jubilee in 2013, just that this is more inclusive and not based on an election directly. Everybody knew people were guilty as sin in 2013 but for the sake of peace people accepted and moved on. This time BBI is with the "wrong" tribe/person and you want to change the game for the sake of your trucking business in North Rift? How about those who have lost many lives all those years, are they less important than your trucking business?
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The said "peaceful working relationship" is another term for blackmail. Kales have the Kikuyus by the balls. PEV in RV is just a question of time as land becomes scarce with the growing population. Kikuyus cannot appease the Kales with their votes forever and what happens when 80% of Kikuyus vote for Ruto and he still looses? :D :D :D Is the pact still valid?
Any community that has a population that sits outside its ancestral lands in Kenya has to accept the fact that they have to make some sort of deal with the natives for inclusion. Pev exposed Kenya to the reality that ours is a country made up of tribal nations cobbled together to form a country. Kikuyus were expelled from kisumu to mumias. In Rift valley interesting enough in pokot there was no pev because kanu was supporting Kibaki. Now consider these two stories. I grew up with kalenjin kids all through to my early 20s, went to high school where my best buddy was a very smart luo kid then came to the States and kept the same friendships. We used to argue out politics so much especially after the 2005 referendum and would even bet who would win where. Our friendship was never influenced by politics. I co-signed my luo friend for his first car in Michigan and helped bail out another when his truck almost got repossessed. I attended my Kale friends graduations in the Midwest any time one of us was graduating and vice versa. Now come elections in 2007 and instead of us collecting on our bets my one luo friend calls me laughing how we were being destroyed in Rift valley. I later in 2009 went for Obama's inauguration with two friends from central and we were hosted by my kalenjin friends from eldoret living around DC area. Even to them they couldn't understand how we were still close after what had happened until we spend days in DC. That same story was replicated throughout in the valley. Remember when Lina kilimo and I believe Ruto was there too asked Kibaki for forgiveness publicly for 2007. Now show me one clip of Raila doing the same especially after that BBC interview.
I wont purport to speak for all kikuyus unlike some who do especially when they are not kikuyu and have been so anti kikuyu until handshake happened. But this much I do know, most of us who have roots outside central province will not join this charade when we have worked so hard to cultivate a working relationship with our neighbours in rift valley. In both 92 and 97 clashes kikuyus were victims all the way from far flung areas of West pokot as Siyoi, kacheliba and Makutano to Enoosupukia in maasailand. The climax was 2007 tribal clashes. Personally I had to evacuate my family only after the military provided safe passage and escort. I got a call from my cousin sometime after who had been active in politics for some time and the first thing he told me was that we had to start thinking seriously about blindly following our folk in Itherero" when it came to elections. He informed me that there was a local movement among elders to start serious negotiations with kalenjin elders about a united and shared political future. That was pretty much the beggining of a future Jubilee government. Now let me explain a simple reason why most of us will stick with Ruto as opposed to what pundits are saying here. Most of us have lots of properties in Rift valley acquired over decades. Despite moving my family to Naivasha I still run several businesses in the north rift and theres no way am giving that up to benefit somebody else. My family has been in cargo business on the northern corridor for a long time and unlike Robina and others who purport to know what we want I go to Kenya every 3-4 months and have several trucks running all the way to south sudan. I get to interact with the common mwananchi all the time starting from the local traders to the drivers and turn boys and believe me selling Raila to them for Uhuru will be an uphill task. Most of us figured out long ago that we have to fend for ourselves and that means negotiating the best deals with our neighbours. That is the basis of that good relationship being experienced in west pokot( Remember the governor there repremanding a guy who was protesting him appointing a kikuyu in his govt) In uasin Gishu among the most powerful MCAs is the guy fro Huruma who has a very good working relationship with mandago. In Nakuru its basically a 50/50 kikuyu kalenjin government. Now tell me why a kikuyu in this areas would throw that out the window so that Uhuru can continue raking in billions in family deals. As they say in politics there are no permanent anything apart from interests. Now tell me why we should vote against our interests with a clear mind.
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What's the use of asking for forgiveness when threatening to unleash violence if he is not supported in 2022? What kind of forgiveness was that? You say you are on the ground. I also know a number of Kikuyus who have never regained their lost properties in RV since 92, 2007. have you met any of them on the ground?
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No one is threatening violence. But it could be a consequence. Also as you agree tribal clashes did not start with Ruto. Indeed the whole issue is a bit more complex than you think.
I personally have been involved in pro bono cases trying to have victims of this violence compensated. Even right now am involved in some case whereby there is a court order to freeze 7B because MOST OF GOVERNMENT DECLARED COMPENSATION have gone to fictitious IDPs. And this is facilitate even by "own" Kikuyus. Including senior leaders and prove exists. You'd expect a Government led by Kibaki and then Uhuru would have finalized this IDP issue and resettled people. But they really don't care that much.
Then you need to put 2007/08 clashes into context. No one is an angle here. If it's comparing Ruto and Raila for example you'd realize they both bear responsibility for 07/08. Indeed that when everyone ganged up against Kikuyu whether one was in Western or Coast or Rift Valley. The ethnic undertones were obviously infamous "41 vs 1"... Pure incitements. So who should take most blame? Who's angel here?
I was also in those Nakuru meetings and others when "reconciliation" were discussed and dealt with. Remember reconciliation was/is between communities and Ruto/Uhuru were merely leading that process at that time and now.
Unfortunately political disputes and tensions have the tendency to bring the worst relations between communities. Especially between Kikuyu/Luos, Kikuyu/Kales. These are the hazards and challenges of a multi ethnic society. I too don't have magic bullet to resolve all these.
BBI on the other hand is actually premised on ACCEPTANCE OF ELECTION RESULTS. They are claims of biased or compromised electoral body or straight out rigging. And to deal with this a lot of reforms have been adopted by somehow some people are never satisfied. It's as if everyone (every political competitor) need to be accommodated into the government. Maybe we should form something like Chinese System or Soviet Politburo instead of competitive elections..
What's the use of asking for forgiveness when threatening to unleash violence if he is not supported in 2022? What kind of forgiveness was that? You say you are on the ground. I also know a number of Kikuyus who have never regained their lost properties in RV since 92, 2007. have you met any of them on the ground?
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What's the use of asking for forgiveness when threatening to unleash violence if he is not supported in 2022? What kind of forgiveness was that? You say you are on the ground. I also know a number of Kikuyus who have never regained their lost properties in RV since 92, 2007. have you met any of them on the ground?
Have i met any.. how about some are friends and relatives. A family friend of ours lost almost everything of all places mumias and had to flea to Uganda to escape being killed by his own neighbors. My own father inlaw was in Eldoret as a senior police officer and even his position could not save him from having his properties being burnt down.My grandfather on my dads side and his sister lived in burnt forest and Rukuine(sp). So yes I know so many of the people who suffered directly. In 92 I had just joined high school and came home to find most of our home converted to a refugee camp including our grain stores . I saw you brought about my trucking business am sure to make yourself look superior or so I think. Most of us are very educated but dont come here to floss. We engage in business because that is the easiest way to make money quick anywhere including here in the US. So if you brought that up to make yourself look superior then you are wrong. As regards blackmail, you can call it that. I chose to call it a working relationship just like the kuria are working with the luhyia or luo or for that matter anyone who happens to be a minority wherever in Kenya they happen to live outside their ancestral lands.
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At least you have real life experience and understanding. Now what this Uhuru doesn't seem to realize is that Ruto can as easily make a deal with Raila. Politics is politics. He tells Raila "i supported you from 2005 to 07. Now that am being betrayed let's make a deal." Raila being Raila would make the deal and then resurrect his 41 vs 1 thing. Easily. This time Mt. Kenya would be worse off. Badly worse off. Because this time there won't be any reason to abandon Jubilee deal. Absolutely none.
Have i met any.. how about some are friends and relatives. A family friend of ours lost almost everything of all places mumias and had to flea to Uganda to escape being killed by his own neighbors. My own father inlaw was in Eldoret as a senior police officer and even his position could not save him from having his properties being burnt down.My grandfather on my dads side and his sister lived in burnt forest and Rukuine(sp). So yes I know so many of the people who suffered directly. In 92 I had just joined high school and came home to find most of our home converted to a refugee camp including our grain stores . I saw you brought about my trucking business am sure to make yourself look superior or so I think. Most of us are very educated but dont come here to floss. We engage in business because that is the easiest way to make money quick anywhere including here in the US. So if you brought that up to make yourself look superior then you are wrong. As regards blackmail, you can call it that. I chose to call it a working relationship just like the kuria are working with the luhyia or luo or for that matter anyone who happens to be a minority wherever in Kenya they happen to live outside their ancestral lands.
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What was Ruto's role in PEV? You seem to blame Raila for it all. Luo did not behead nor evict anyone. Uhuru defended Kikuyus and your propaganda cannot take away his accolades.
Parliamentary is about equity. Two tribe rule needs to end. Also, last time Njonjo let in a Kalenjin Gema were the most marginalized for 24 years. Gema suffered under Kalenjin presidential leadership so you got your facts upside down. Gema only did well when they were in power - which is what Uhuru is doing - staying in power.
Uhuru is actually doing worse than "risking 1m Kikuyu" which to be honest he doesn't care that much about. Indeed right now he and his team would be very happy if RV tribal clashes erupt. They would blame Ruto and use that to portray him as violent. And believe you me, a helicopter would land at Sugoi to take Ruto to Hague. By that they would have gotten rid of him with claims he had to face ICC.
In short am even telling you these people can even set false flags from Njoro, Timboroa, Ravine, all the way to Burnt Forest. It will not be first time violence is used to advance some agenda..
That aside, the worst Uhuru is doing is long term damage of Parliamentary System and even Federal System (Majimbo). Kikuyus wherever they are would be rendered minorities. Then they have no enough MPs to negotiate anything of substance. This is the worst ever he can do.
Then he brings Raila with him. A man Kikuyu elite plus Uhuru have been demonizing for decades. A man whom they judged impossible to work with during Kibaki's time. A man who is blamed for taking Ruto/Uhuru to the Hague. A man who at the height of PEV 2007/08 was known as Arap Mibei. A man who was not even apologetic about it. A man who tried to excuse Kiambaa burning on BBC. Somehow Uhuru now decide Raila is the Man.
Even more infuriating to people is that All these Uhuru is doing for HIMSELF. HIM. ALONE. TO BE EXECUTIVE PM. It's his own self interests. There is no national interests to amend constitution and install regions or PM. None whatsoever. His own base (people) get shafted for generations to come for him to be PM..
This guy Uhuru better get more security as @KenyanPlato said. People are fed up with him.
Indeed ata sometimes i personally think am in some kind of alternative universe. Because i cannot figure out rationale for Uhuru behaviour.
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You are losing it. Kalenjin have no right to live in the forest. Even Gema were evicted from the Aberdares by Kibaki. That destroyed water catchment needs to be reclaimed and forest dwellers need to go back to where they came from. They did not drop from the sky into the forest. Shameless.
Ruto is not God and there are many fierce warlords behind bars - Ntaganda, Charles Taylor, Milosevic, etc.
The political leaders are to blame.Don't ever mistake silence for weakness.You just evicted 60,000 people from Narok. Poor people. From their land. Because of Politics. The future warriors will emerge from them. You even refuses for them to build IDP camps.
Don't incite war then come crying ICC ICCC - Ruto is warlord a WarLORD! a WarLORD! KONY! AMIN ! The butcher! Dead man Walking Alive!
https://www.nation.co.ke/counties/narok/All-set-for-round-two-of-Mau-evictions/1183318-5257202-xg96tiz/index.html
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ouxyqV0K07AqYIHkmp33CuHbBDrJO2DQ8R_F0xsjzQl9vVuK3jKQAJq7SbQ8vPMfLroW6lAY4-4uMBDg13v-vzNEcDUmog=s750)
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The political leaders are to blame.Don't ever mistake silence for weakness.You just evicted 60,000 people from Narok. Poor people. From their land. Because of Politics. The future warriors will emerge from them. You even refuses for them to build IDP camps.
Don't incite war then come crying ICC ICCC - Ruto is warlord a WarLORD! a WarLORD! KONY! AMIN ! The butcher! Dead man Walking Alive!
https://www.nation.co.ke/counties/narok/All-set-for-round-two-of-Mau-evictions/1183318-5257202-xg96tiz/index.html
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ouxyqV0K07AqYIHkmp33CuHbBDrJO2DQ8R_F0xsjzQl9vVuK3jKQAJq7SbQ8vPMfLroW6lAY4-4uMBDg13v-vzNEcDUmog=s750)
Pundit
Your people will never again beat kikuyus. Next time you try that shit we will teach you a lesson
It is not politics but loose morals of your people. They simple minded jealous people. How do you attack your neighbors on basis that they may have voted for someone else. You morons sold land and now you think you will reclaim by killing others. Next time we will drive you out of Kenya
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Ruto role or alleged roles in PEV was even documented by ICC for whoever wants details. Or alleged details. Therefore am not absolving him any blame. But in his capacity as titular head of Kalenjin Nation he did apologise and vowed people will not fight again. He did this in context of those Nakuru meetings. There is nothing to show or proof or doubt his words. He seemed genuine and he has proved genuine.
On the other hand, Raila played a huge role in 2007/08 PEV than Ruto ever did. Raila provided political legitimacy (if you can call it that) for it. He defended PEV as legitimate protest for his alleged stolen election victory. He congratulated those young men causing mayhem as legitimate protestors. Most of all he made it a national sport to hate or hunt Kikuyus when he deliberately accepted 41 vs 1 as a campaign strategy. It's even unimaginable what such a person can do when in power. All those are in public domain. And finally he has never apologized or regretted anything about 2007/08 PEVand he was ultimate leader who was seeking Presidency.
When you compare Ruto and Raila, the Hustler has much more redeeming qualities than Raila could ever be.
As for Moi, yes he played his part. And he was also brutal to others. His record of good, bad and ugly is all there for people to judge. But remember he operated in some kind of transitional period. From some kind of dictatorship to multipartyism. And in retrospect am not sure anybody else in his shoes would have done it any better. But some things like instigated tribal clashes were avoidable. Finally it has been like 20yrs since Moi left power. It behoves upon leaders and us to see and judge who can do away with the worst of Moi. Raila cannot. And we cannot blame all Kalenjins for Moi's sin. Just that when Raila is finally retired or buried Luo Nation will get a more reasonable leader to deal with.
What was Ruto's role in PEV? You seem to blame Raila for it all. Luo did not behead nor evict anyone. Uhuru defended Kikuyus and your propaganda cannot take away his accolades.
Parliamentary is about equity. Two tribe rule needs to end. Also, last time Njonjo let in a Kalenjin Gema were the most marginalized for 24 years. Gema suffered under Kalenjin presidential leadership so you got your facts upside down. Gema only did well when they were in power - which is what Uhuru is doing - staying in power.
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My point is Kalenjin are genocidal not Luo. Raila alleged rigging in 2013 and 17 without any genocide. We cannot suspend democracy to please Ruto - people will choose bila vitisho. Nothing stops him from outfoxing Uhuru to do a deal with Raila. If Uhuru betrays him he can hang Ngina. Anything else will revive his postponed ICC file.
Ruto role or alleged roles in PEV was even documented by ICC for whoever wants details. Or alleged details. Therefore am not absolving him any blame. But in his capacity as titular head of Kalenjin Nation he did apologise and vowed people will not fight again. He did this in context of those Nakuru meetings. There is nothing to show or proof or doubt his words. He seemed genuine and he has proved genuine.
On the other hand, Raila played a huge role in 2007/08 PEV than Ruto ever did. Raila provided political legitimacy (if you can call it that) for it. He defended PEV as legitimate protest for his alleged stolen election victory. He congratulated those young men causing mayhem as legitimate protestors. Most of all he made it a national sport to hate or hunt Kikuyus when he deliberately accepted 41 vs 1 as a campaign strategy. It's even unimaginable what such a person can do when in power. All those are in public domain. And finally he has never apologized or regretted anything about 2007/08 PEVand he was ultimate leader who was seeking Presidency.
When you compare Ruto and Raila, the Hustler has much more redeeming qualities than Raila could ever be.
As for Moi, yes he played his part. And he was also brutal to others. His record of good, bad and ugly is all there for people to judge. But remember he operated in some kind of transitional period. From some kind of dictatorship to multipartyism. And in retrospect am not sure anybody else in his shoes would have done it any better. But some things like instigated tribal clashes were avoidable. Finally it has been like 20yrs since Moi left power. It behoves upon leaders and us to see and judge who can do away with the worst of Moi. Raila cannot. And we cannot blame all Kalenjins for Moi's sin. Just that when Raila is finally retired or buried Luo Nation will get a more reasonable leader to deal with.
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1. I don't believe Kales would even want to start tribal clashes. This time they would be isolated. Kabisa. And then it isn't in their interests at this time. Ruto may be so many things but he has proved he's a very good strategist. He cannot give Uhuru/Raila excuse to finish him. As Pundit says "he's a political eel.." From my own intelligence Uhuru/Raila may use their "deep state" to organise some kind of clashes just to get Ruto. They are that desperate to have their BBI with little or no opposition. That the country will have no other alternative but them!
2. Yes. Ruto can get tired with Uhuru "betrayal" and can say "wacha nionyeshe hawa wanafikiri mimi mjinga..." To Mt. Kenya that is the Nightmare Scenario. It would be complete lunacy and height of unforgiveable political incompetence should Mt. Kenya push Ruto to such a scenario. That is why Mt. Kenya ready to dispose Uhuru. I will let you onto a secret: most people/politicians are buying for time. If this BBI isn't done this year then it will not be possible. From next year people including Governors and MPs will openly be telling Uhuru off. We will be nearing next election and the nearer it gets the more Uhuru Kenyatta becomes irrelevant: lameduck. He cannot use Nyahunyo on or kill everyone... Ndio atajua kweli anaenda home. Raila better have an ironclad scheme that can succeed by then. So Ruto should try and be as humble as Vice President Moi was then in 2 yrs he shall be rewarded with Presidency.
3. When you talk of Vitisho then your hypocrisy is obvious. You support Uhuru Nyahunyo which is nothing more than instilling fear so as people agree to his cause. Vitisho ni vitisho whether From Ruto or Uhuru.
Let me ask out of curiosity.. SHOULD Ruto join Raila would you still advocate for Parliamentary system?
My point is Kalenjin are genocidal not Luo. Raila alleged rigging in 2013 and 17 without any genocide. We cannot suspend democracy to please Ruto - people will choose bila vitisho. Nothing stops him from outfoxing Uhuru to do a deal with Raila. If Uhuru betrays him he can hang Ngina. Anything else will revive his postponed ICC file.
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Vitisho I mean of PEV 2 - not Waititu impeachment. There is a line between innocent folks and politicians battling for power. Kuria for instance may jibe Uhuru and police may revive his old assault case. You can even run propaganda about chiefs vetting people in Kirinyaga. That's fair. But PEV or even evicting peasants out of the forest is wrong. I view Mau as principally an environmental issue that didn't start with Jubilee. Kenya needs the Mau restored. That's why I support it. I rejected NRM secession unlike most ODMers.
Parliamentary... myself, ODM and Raila have supported it since Bomas. Sadly Kiraitu doctored Bomas into a NARA hybrid. So it is not new or merely opportune. I would rather have Exec PM Uhuru or Ruto than Exec PORK Raila. We have been backing Uhuru for PM- Raila for ceremonial president combo, haven't we?
Parliamentary does not disadvantage Kalenjin or even Gema. Fairness is not discrimination. It is greedy and unreasonable to praise another Kikuyu-Kalenjin 20yr pact. If Mt Kenya Tangatanga are genuine they can back Ruto for PM. Si lazima awe Rais.
3. When you talk of Vitisho then your hypocrisy is obvious. You support Uhuru Nyahunyo which is nothing more than instilling fear so as people agree to his cause. Vitisho ni vitisho whether From Ruto or Uhuru.
Let me ask out of curiosity.. SHOULD Ruto join Raila would you still advocate for Parliamentary system?
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I support conservation of Mau. What i really hate and abhor is the manner in which government goes about evicting people. Then it doesn't even do reforestation or anything else. It's as if evicting people for sadistic pleasure or thinking Mau is now fine because there are no people in it. It started even during Moi's time evicting people (peasant farmers) and leaving them to fed for themselves.
Then its compounded by the fact that most of these forest dwellers have known no other home for generations and govt always knew about them.
It's supposed to be a government of the people. Not of trees or animals. Its chiefly government of the people. Therefore as we support conservation of Mau and other areas it's also possible to be humane and resettle these poor peasant farmers then do reforestation and all that appertains to that. Then it can be evident to everyone that truly government has a plan.
Mau eviction are sadly used for political points and ethnic issues. Some Maasai politicians want people evicted because they view them as "foreigners.."
It's a good noble goal to pursue but implemented in a most idiotic and opportunistic manner.
Vitisho I mean of PEV 2 - not Waititu impeachment. There is a line between innocent folks and politicians battling for power. Kuria for instance may jibe Uhuru and police may revive his old assault case. You can even run propaganda about chiefs vetting people in Kirinyaga. That's fair. But PEV or even evicting peasants out of the forest is wrong. I view Mau as principally an environmental issue that didn't start with Jubilee. Kenya needs the Mau restored. That's why I support it. I rejected NRM secession unlike most ODMers.
Parliamentary... myself, ODM and Raila have supported it since Bomas. Sadly Kiraitu doctored Bomas into a NARA hybrid. So it is not new or merely opportune. I would rather have Exec PM Uhuru or Ruto than Exec PORK Raila. We have been backing Uhuru for PM- Raila for ceremonial president combo
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Ruto role or alleged roles in PEV was even documented by ICC for whoever wants details. Or alleged details. Therefore am not absolving him any blame. But in his capacity as titular head of Kalenjin Nation he did apologise and vowed people will not fight again. He did this in context of those Nakuru meetings. There is nothing to show or proof or doubt his words. He seemed genuine and he has proved genuine.
On the other hand, Raila played a huge role in 2007/08 PEV than Ruto ever did. Raila provided political legitimacy (if you can call it that) for it. He defended PEV as legitimate protest for his alleged stolen election victory. He congratulated those young men causing mayhem as legitimate protestors. Most of all he made it a national sport to hate or hunt Kikuyus when he deliberately accepted 41 vs 1 as a campaign strategy. It's even unimaginable what such a person can do when in power. All those are in public domain. And finally he has never apologized or regretted anything about 2007/08 PEVand he was ultimate leader who was seeking Presidency.
When you compare Ruto and Raila, the Hustler has much more redeeming qualities than Raila could ever be.
As for Moi, yes he played his part. And he was also brutal to others. His record of good, bad and ugly is all there for people to judge. But remember he operated in some kind of transitional period. From some kind of dictatorship to multipartyism. And in retrospect am not sure anybody else in his shoes would have done it any better. But some things like instigated tribal clashes were avoidable. Finally it has been like 20yrs since Moi left power. It behoves upon leaders and us to see and judge who can do away with the worst of Moi. Raila cannot. And we cannot blame all Kalenjins for Moi's sin. Just that when Raila is finally retired or buried Luo Nation will get a more reasonable leader to deal with.
What was Ruto's role in PEV? You seem to blame Raila for it all. Luo did not behead nor evict anyone. Uhuru defended Kikuyus and your propaganda cannot take away his accolades.
Parliamentary is about equity. Two tribe rule needs to end. Also, last time Njonjo let in a Kalenjin Gema were the most marginalized for 24 years. Gema suffered under Kalenjin presidential leadership so you got your facts upside down. Gema only did well when they were in power - which is what Uhuru is doing - staying in power.
I think we can now confirm the fear of Raila(Luo) couched in don't betray Ruto lingo. In reality, even the hustler will be told that he can go to hell once the "threat of Baba" is eliminated in this mindset.
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bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM :) It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.
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bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM :) It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.
There is a group with Mutahi Ngunyiesque fear of Raila. They will embrace the grim reaper before they embrace Baba. I think they are just not happy about the fact that GEMA is now forced to share power with anyone(Ruto, Raila or whoever). It's just that Raila seems to be getting too close for comfort.
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I do not think its a phobia. Its just pride. Just like Pundit here, those people swore and done things to make sure that Raila was Kwisha, done, kaput, retired, etc but RAO keeps on showing up big and better. Its eating them alive.
bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM :) It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.
There is a group with Mutahi Ngunyiesque fear of Raila. They will embrace the grim reaper before they embrace Baba. I think they are just not happy about the fact that GEMA is now forced to share power with anyone(Ruto, Raila or whoever). It's just that Raila seems to be getting too close for comfort.
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You are partly right. Yea. Fear of Raila is real. His capacity to incite, his unpredictability and his always "keleles..." That is a factor so no one disputes that. Even those who seem to support Uhuru/Raila arrangements have that nagging fear that Raila can as easily renege. Yes every politician has played double cross game but for Raila is on his own league.
Kindly note, there is nothing wrong or feared about Luos in general. Unfortunately in an multi ethnic society dispute between leaders or hate of a particular leader can always be misconstrued as hate/fear of the whole group.
Hustler can't easily be wished away whether Raila is there or not since there is also independent relations between Kalenjins and Kikuyus. So that remains. But fear or dislike of Raila makes Hustler even more appealing.
I think we can now confirm the fear of Raila(Luo) couched in don't betray Ruto lingo. In reality, even the hustler will be told that he can go to hell once the "threat of Baba" is eliminated in this mindset.
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Your answer doesn't follow. If "they" are not happy to share with anyone and yet "they" willing to share with Hustler. So how does that explain why they don't want Raila?
Maybe you should also interrogate the reasons they give for not wanting Raila. Try and look from "their" end too.. Therein lies the answer.
There is a group with Mutahi Ngunyiesque fear of Raila. They will embrace the grim reaper before they embrace Baba. I think they are just not happy about the fact that GEMA is now forced to share power with anyone(Ruto, Raila or whoever). It's just that Raila seems to be getting too close for comfort.
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Precisely -esp if those people have stayed there for generations. Mau Mau was sparked by the eviction of Kikuyus from olenguorene so the Italians release prisoners could get land. They went back to Kiambu and started chaos..
I support conservation of Mau. What i really hate and abhor is the manner in which government goes about evicting people. Then it doesn't even do reforestation or anything else. It's as if evicting people for sadistic pleasure or thinking Mau is now fine because there are no people in it. It started even during Moi's time evicting people (peasant farmers) and leaving them to fed for themselves.
Then its compounded by the fact that most of these forest dwellers have known no other home for generations and govt always knew about them.
It's supposed to be a government of the people. Not of trees or animals. Its chiefly government of the people. Therefore as we support conservation of Mau and other areas it's also possible to be humane and resettle these poor peasant farmers then do reforestation and all that appertains to that. Then it can be evident to everyone that truly government has a plan.
Mau eviction are sadly used for political points and ethnic issues. Some Maasai politicians want people evicted because they view them as "foreigners.."
It's a good noble goal to pursue but implemented in a most idiotic and opportunistic manner.
Vitisho I mean of PEV 2 - not Waititu impeachment. There is a line between innocent folks and politicians battling for power. Kuria for instance may jibe Uhuru and police may revive his old assault case. You can even run propaganda about chiefs vetting people in Kirinyaga. That's fair. But PEV or even evicting peasants out of the forest is wrong. I view Mau as principally an environmental issue that didn't start with Jubilee. Kenya needs the Mau restored. That's why I support it. I rejected NRM secession unlike most ODMers.
Parliamentary... myself, ODM and Raila have supported it since Bomas. Sadly Kiraitu doctored Bomas into a NARA hybrid. So it is not new or merely opportune. I would rather have Exec PM Uhuru or Ruto than Exec PORK Raila. We have been backing Uhuru for PM- Raila for ceremonial president combo
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You're making some tremendous progress in understanding why Ruto is sleepwalking to Statehouse. The fear & loathing of Raila & Jaramogi in Mt Kenya didn't start today - I think it started in the 1960s. The fear is both rational and irrational. Kalenjin also fear and loathe Raila...because look they killed for the man and the first thing he did was to betray them. Kalenjin never voted for Kibaki and didn't expect anything from him. But Raila.
Now you have two groups -Mt Kenya & Kalenjin (aka Jubilee)- jointly united in the hatred of the man - and you know why Uhuru has made zero traction despite using TOTAL GOV MACHINERY for 2 now going 3yrs.
If Uhuru insist on going ahead - with his project Raila - then surely he will go alone. He will have to quit Jubilee and join ODM alone. It will be very lonely.
Uhuru is wasting time if he thinks he can somehow intimidate Jubilee to back Raila. It ain't happening now or ever. He can join ODM like the 10 or so mps he has managed to intimidate...but he will be facing open rebellion starting next year. He may end up retiring in great shame like Moi.
bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM :) It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.
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You have made a lot of progress yourself Pundit. I remember not too long ago your narrative was that Ruto and Uhuru were playing RAO. Now it appears that you have accepted the fact that Ouru has dumped Ruto. That's a big improvement. The next hill you must climb is that Ruto will not president. It will take sometime but you will get there.
You're making some tremendous progress in understanding why Ruto is sleepwalking to Statehouse. The fear & loathing of Raila & Jaramogi in Mt Kenya didn't start today - I think it started in the 1960s. The fear is both rational and irrational. Kalenjin also fear and loathe Raila...because look they killed for the man and the first thing he did was to betray them. Kalenjin never voted for Kibaki and didn't expect anything from him. But Raila.
Now you have two groups -Mt Kenya & Kalenjin (aka Jubilee)- jointly united in the hatred of the man - and you know why Uhuru has made zero traction despite using TOTAL GOV MACHINERY for 2 now going 3yrs.
If Uhuru insist on going ahead - with his project Raila - then surely he will go alone. He will have to quit Jubilee and join ODM alone. It will be very lonely.
Uhuru is wasting time if he thinks he can somehow intimidate Jubilee to back Raila. It ain't happening now or ever. He can join ODM like the 10 or so mps he has managed to intimidate...but he will be facing open rebellion starting next year. He may end up retiring in great shame like Moi.
bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM :) It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.
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Well, Uhuru has certainly attempted but he is intelligent enough not dip both feet in a crocodile invested river Nile heading to Caanan. I would say Uhuru will have to deal with reality of his retirement and stop entertaining stupid ideas.
You have made a lot of progress yourself Pundit. I remember not too long ago your narrative was that Ruto and Uhuru were playing RAO. Now it appears that you have accepted the fact that Ouru has dumped Ruto. That's a big improvement. The next hill you must climb is that Ruto will not president. It will take sometime but you will get there.
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You will be hard-pressed to show who are Ruto's new friends as so many Gema and non-Gema peel away. We can trade the lists if you want.
You're making some tremendous progress in understanding why Ruto is sleepwalking to Statehouse. The fear & loathing of Raila & Jaramogi in Mt Kenya didn't start today - I think it started in the 1960s. The fear is both rational and irrational. Kalenjin also fear and loathe Raila...because look they killed for the man and the first thing he did was to betray them. Kalenjin never voted for Kibaki and didn't expect anything from him. But Raila.
Now you have two groups -Mt Kenya & Kalenjin (aka Jubilee)- jointly united in the hatred of the man - and you know why Uhuru has made zero traction despite using TOTAL GOV MACHINERY for 2 now going 3yrs.
If Uhuru insist on going ahead - with his project Raila - then surely he will go alone. He will have to quit Jubilee and join ODM alone. It will be very lonely.
Uhuru is wasting time if he thinks he can somehow intimidate Jubilee to back Raila. It ain't happening now or ever. He can join ODM like the 10 or so mps he has managed to intimidate...but he will be facing open rebellion starting next year. He may end up retiring in great shame like Moi.
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Pundit is a spin doctor. He knows the truth.
You have made a lot of progress yourself Pundit. I remember not too long ago your narrative was that Ruto and Uhuru were playing RAO. Now it appears that you have accepted the fact that Ouru has dumped Ruto. That's a big improvement. The next hill you must climb is that Ruto will not president. It will take sometime but you will get there.
You're making some tremendous progress in understanding why Ruto is sleepwalking to Statehouse. The fear & loathing of Raila & Jaramogi in Mt Kenya didn't start today - I think it started in the 1960s. The fear is both rational and irrational. Kalenjin also fear and loathe Raila...because look they killed for the man and the first thing he did was to betray them. Kalenjin never voted for Kibaki and didn't expect anything from him. But Raila.
Now you have two groups -Mt Kenya & Kalenjin (aka Jubilee)- jointly united in the hatred of the man - and you know why Uhuru has made zero traction despite using TOTAL GOV MACHINERY for 2 now going 3yrs.
If Uhuru insist on going ahead - with his project Raila - then surely he will go alone. He will have to quit Jubilee and join ODM alone. It will be very lonely.
Uhuru is wasting time if he thinks he can somehow intimidate Jubilee to back Raila. It ain't happening now or ever. He can join ODM like the 10 or so mps he has managed to intimidate...but he will be facing open rebellion starting next year. He may end up retiring in great shame like Moi.
bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM :) It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.
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Unless you prove me wrong, what I have stated as reasons for not liking Raila still stands.
And i have also stated the reasons Uhuru Deal is totally unacceptable to Mt. Kenya. He's asking Mt. Kenya to commit political harakiri. It won't happen. It doesn't matter whether he's given Executive PM. Akae nayo.
Those are legit reasons based on sound analysis.
BTW Robina, Raila's Street intelligence gathering machine has started bragging how Raila has managed to bell the cat..
It goes like this:
"Unajua Baba alituambia ameshika dume yao kabisa. Kwa makende. Sasa Parliamentary ikipita hakuna Kikuyu ataongeza Kenya mpaka Yesu arudi. Boss, kuna njia mingi za kutega panya. Unaweka mtego pale na pale na pale na moja itashika. Sasa imeshika hii panya ya Central.. Unajua tuliambia Wakale wajichunge lakini hawakuskia. Ona sasa. Sisi ukituona na Baba kama tuko hapo sasa ni final touches... "
bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM :) It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.
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You are partly right. Yea. Fear of Raila is real. His capacity to incite, his unpredictability and his always "keleles..." That is a factor so no one disputes that. Even those who seem to support Uhuru/Raila arrangements have that nagging fear that Raila can as easily renege. Yes every politician has played double cross game but for Raila is on his own league.
Kindly note, there is nothing wrong or feared about Luos in general. Unfortunately in an multi ethnic society dispute between leaders or hate of a particular leader can always be misconstrued as hate/fear of the whole group.
Hustler can't easily be wished away whether Raila is there or not since there is also independent relations between Kalenjins and Kikuyus. So that remains. But fear or dislike of Raila makes Hustler even more appealing.
I think we can now confirm the fear of Raila(Luo) couched in don't betray Ruto lingo. In reality, even the hustler will be told that he can go to hell once the "threat of Baba" is eliminated in this mindset.
Suppose Raila attains power, who and why would he incite? I don't understand. This must be the irrational part of the fear.
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Your answer doesn't follow. If "they" are not happy to share with anyone and yet "they" willing to share with Hustler. So how does that explain why they don't want Raila?
Maybe you should also interrogate the reasons they give for not wanting Raila. Try and look from "their" end too.. Therein lies the answer.
There is a group with Mutahi Ngunyiesque fear of Raila. They will embrace the grim reaper before they embrace Baba. I think they are just not happy about the fact that GEMA is now forced to share power with anyone(Ruto, Raila or whoever). It's just that Raila seems to be getting too close for comfort.
As long as Hustler is number 2, sure.
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I do not think its a phobia. Its just pride. Just like Pundit here, those people swore and done things to make sure that Raila was Kwisha, done, kaput, retired, etc but RAO keeps on showing up big and better. Its eating them alive.
bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM :) It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.
There is a group with Mutahi Ngunyiesque fear of Raila. They will embrace the grim reaper before they embrace Baba. I think they are just not happy about the fact that GEMA is now forced to share power with anyone(Ruto, Raila or whoever). It's just that Raila seems to be getting too close for comfort.
I think it's deeper than that. There is a sense that BBI is unraveling a "good thing". I have seen it among the "educated" GEMA but I am not sure if it goes beyond that group. The elite probably just want someone who can protect their wealth, the hoi-polloi are just trying to survive.
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1. Before people vote you into power there are things they like and dislike. Its like a cost benefit analysis.
2. When one gets to power, he may live to expectations or not. He may be better than expected or worse.
3. As a result they are good chunk of Kenyans who don't want to make guesswork with Raila in power. He may become the best. Or just be ordinary. Or just prove critics right.
4. Specifically on incitement when in power, surely we have good example of Moi. Who deliberately incited tribal clashes which later others took it to another level. There are a lot "incitement" and mischiefs one can do while in power.
So it isn't rational at all. It's a world wide phenomenon. There those who thought Trump would be like the worst or the best or he will keep his promises or not. And still there those who still hate him with a passion and would gladly have him killed. And those who view him as some kind of Messiah incarnate. It's the way it is.
Suppose Raila attains power, who and why would he incite? I don't understand. This must be the irrational part of the fear.
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But honestly isn't the fight at the moment in Mt. Kenya to get Hustler to Number 1?
As long as Hustler is number 2, sure.
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1. Before people vote you into power there are things they like and dislike. Its like a cost benefit analysis.
2. When one gets to power, he may live to expectations or not. He may be better than expected or worse.
3. As a result they are good chunk of Kenyans who don't want to make guesswork with Raila in power. He may become the best. Or just be ordinary. Or just prove critics right.
4. Specifically on incitement when in power, surely we have good example of Moi. Who deliberately incited tribal clashes which later others took it to another level. There are a lot "incitement" and mischiefs one can do while in power.
So it isn't rational at all. It's a world wide phenomenon. There those who thought Trump would be like the worst or the best or he will keep his promises or not. And still there those who still hate him with a passion and would gladly have him killed. And those who view him as some kind of Messiah incarnate. It's the way it is.
Suppose Raila attains power, who and why would he incite? I don't understand. This must be the irrational part of the fear.
Moi incited clashes to prove that multipartism is evil. Raila's "incitement" is to end electoral theft. To what end would a Raila in power incite any violence?
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But honestly isn't the fight at the moment in Mt. Kenya to get Hustler to Number 1?
As long as Hustler is number 2, sure.
No. Of course not.
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There are also many Kenyans who do not want to take a chance with Ruto in power. Do not worry about the hoi polio, they will come along once they are confronted by their leaders with the inevitability. Just like Ouru is now popular in KSM, Raila will soon be popular in central, once the Ruto hangover is cleared. I remember Njonjo saying that the hatred between kikuyus and luos was manufactured by them after the death of TJ and they needed Kikuyus to rally around Kenyattaa . Kalenjins loved RAO and Ruto changed that. Luos also loved Ruto but that changed to hatred. After Kibaki tosha, Raila was considered a hero by kikuyus, then Kibaki and later Ouru, changed that. Vile Vile, kikuyus can be taught to love Raila and hate Ruto. Such is Kenya's politics. The tribal leaders make the decision and not the people. Whatever Ouru and RAO are cooking will work because they control the levers of power. Ruto on the other hand will understand the misery of being out of government which RAO only understands too well.
1. Before people vote you into power there are things they like and dislike. Its like a cost benefit analysis.
2. When one gets to power, he may live to expectations or not. He may be better than expected or worse.
3. As a result they are good chunk of Kenyans who don't want to make guesswork with Raila in power. He may become the best. Or just be ordinary. Or just prove critics right.
4. Specifically on incitement when in power, surely we have good example of Moi. Who deliberately incited tribal clashes which later others took it to another level. There are a lot "incitement" and mischiefs one can do while in power.
So it isn't rational at all. It's a world wide phenomenon. There those who thought Trump would be like the worst or the best or he will keep his promises or not. And still there those who still hate him with a passion and would gladly have him killed. And those who view him as some kind of Messiah incarnate. It's the way it is.
Suppose Raila attains power, who and why would he incite? I don't understand. This must be the irrational part of the fear.
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Moi could have had other reasons like giving his support base an enemy so that they always with him. Maybe he genuinely wanted to claim lands. Maybe it was hate for "outsiders" in RV or so many other reasons. But we deduce with the facts available that his most likely reason was to consolidate his base and to also portray multipartism as evil.
For Raila i may recount all he has done or said or alleged to but i have no chance of convincing you. But when i try to be in your shoes I see denial and self convincing that Raila is faultless. And whoever hates or don't politically support him must be moved by tribalism or some phobia.
When i review Raila's history I can only give you story of Frog and Scorpion..
"Unable to swim, a scorpion asks a frog to carry him across a rising river.
The frog worries that the scorpion could sting him. The scorpion argues that if he stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown as well.
Convinced, the frog agrees and lets the scorpion climb on his back. Halfway across the river, the scorpion does in fact sting the frog, dooming them both.
“But why?” asks the frog."
“It’s just my nature,” says the scorpion.
In the present tense take Frog to be Uhuru.
Moi incited clashes to prove that multipartism is evil. Raila's "incitement" is to end electoral theft. To what end would a Raila in power incite any violence?
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This time ain't happening. It will not.
I have stated before, Kibaki/Raila government or alliance was tumultuous. No one sane would like such government again.
Ruto played his game differently and Mt. Kenya have maintained his support and he himself have not given Mt. Kenya any reason to abandon or complain. It's just Uhuru who for his own gain wants to dump him. He will do so alone.
Please please please explain ro any Kikuyu wherever they are that you want a parliamentary system and regional governments. See how many sides with you. It's not ALL about Raila. It's also what system of government Uhuru is trying to sell to Mt. Kenya that is even trouble some.
Get used to it, unless Ruto get into some accident and die, he's your incoming 5th President of the Republic of Kenya. That i can guarantee you.
There are also many Kenyans who do not want to take a chance with Ruto in power. Do not worry about the hoi polio, they will come along once they are confronted by their leaders with the inevitability. Just like Ouru is now popular in KSM, Raila will soon be popular in central, once the Ruto hangover is cleared. I remember Njonjo saying that the hatred between kikuyus and luos was manufactured by them after the death of TJ and they needed Kikuyus to rally around Kenyattaa . Kalenjins loved RAO and Ruto changed that. Luos also loved Ruto but that changed to hatred. After Kibaki tosha, Raila was considered a hero by kikuyus, then Kibaki and later Ouru, changed that. Vile Vile, kikuyus can be taught to love Raila and hate Ruto. Such is Kenya's politics. The tribal leaders make the decision and not the people. Whatever Ouru and RAO are cooking will work because they control the levers of power. Ruto on the other hand will understand the misery of being out of government which RAO only understands too well.
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Moi could have had other reasons like giving his support base an enemy so that they always with him. Maybe he genuinely wanted to claim lands. Maybe it was hate for "outsiders" in RV or so many other reasons. But we deduce with the facts available that his most likely reason was to consolidate his base and to also portray multipartism as evil.
For Raila i may recount all he has done or said or alleged to but i have no chance of convincing you. But when i try to be in your shoes I see denial and self convincing that Raila is faultless. And whoever hates or don't politically support him must be moved by tribalism or some phobia.
When i review Raila's history I can only give you story of Frog and Scorpion..
"Unable to swim, a scorpion asks a frog to carry him across a rising river.
The frog worries that the scorpion could sting him. The scorpion argues that if he stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown as well.
Convinced, the frog agrees and lets the scorpion climb on his back. Halfway across the river, the scorpion does in fact sting the frog, dooming them both.
“But why?” asks the frog."
“It’s just my nature,” says the scorpion.
In the present tense take Frog to be Uhuru.
Moi incited clashes to prove that multipartism is evil. Raila's "incitement" is to end electoral theft. To what end would a Raila in power incite any violence?
Yeah, it’s just Luo nature to be violent for no apparent reason. I stand convinced 👍.
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Yup. This is well known complete with a certifiable body of knowledge. Ngunyi whipped a thesis on this stuff. The continuing exodus of Gema from Tangatanga is also public knowledge.
There are also many Kenyans who do not want to take a chance with Ruto in power. Do not worry about the hoi polio, they will come along once they are confronted by their leaders with the inevitability. Just like Ouru is now popular in KSM, Raila will soon be popular in central, once the Ruto hangover is cleared. I remember Njonjo saying that the hatred between kikuyus and luos was manufactured by them after the death of TJ and they needed Kikuyus to rally around Kenyattaa . Kalenjins loved RAO and Ruto changed that. Luos also loved Ruto but that changed to hatred. After Kibaki tosha, Raila was considered a hero by kikuyus, then Kibaki and later Ouru, changed that. Vile Vile, kikuyus can be taught to love Raila and hate Ruto. Such is Kenya's politics. The tribal leaders make the decision and not the people. Whatever Ouru and RAO are cooking will work because they control the levers of power. Ruto on the other hand will understand the misery of being out of government which RAO only understands too well.
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Imagine the sheer chutzpah of comparing the mass murder of thousands and the ethnic cleasing of hundreds of thousands of your pple to the horror of public looters having the law unleashed on them and loosing merely the seats they don't deserve by everyone's account. . . :D
Ajabu kweli.
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Am beyond being emotionally blackmailed as a tribalist just because one happen not to like Raila. It's a cheap psyop that won't work. You are the one playing tribal card for lack of anything substantial.
Raila is a public figure and his history in politics is just a matter of public knowledge. That he's always scheming or inciting disobedience even when he was PM is beyond dispute. If pointing out that is interpretated as a Luo thing, then it's you who has shallow tribal lenses. Not me.
Yeah, it’s just Luo nature to be violent for no apparent reason. I stand convinced 👍.
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What the heck are you on about? In case you referring to Raila as blameless in 2007 PEV and Ruto the only guilty one, then you living in an alternate universe. You can convince yourself anything.
Imagine the sheer chutzpah of comparing the mass murder of thousands and the ethnic cleasing of hundreds of thousands of your pple to the horror of public looters having the law unleashed on them and loosing merely the seats they don't deserve by everyone's account. . . :D
Ajabu kweli.
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This is just an ordinary thesis widely believed. Sometimes it's true but other times not. Just be aware that it works among the four big tribes. It doesn't even work among Luhyas. So how the rest roped in?
Obama became the First African American to be US President. Yet US is well known for its race issues and discrimination against Blacks. And Muslims. And several other minorities. Yet Obama won the Presidential election twice in a White Majority US. There are several theories why and how he did it.
But for seek of this argument let me state one thing i noticed about it is that Obama never played race card. He never tried to guilt the whites. He didn't seem bothered by race theory that he couldn't do it. He just played his politics and presented himself as himself not as black and not as someone discriminated against. He was just Obama.
Am not comparing Ruto with Obama or vice versa but my aim is to highlight absurdity of this tribal loyalty theory. Ruto has not played tribal card with Kikuyus. He has presented himself as himself. He has played his politics and he has stuck to the Jubilee deal without self praise or rancour or complains. All about tribal clashes were addressed during Nakuru reconciliation meetings and he has stuck to that without much fanfare or dwelling on it. Yes, he has also heard (and maybe seen) that Kikuyus always vote their own but that has not bothered him and he has not made big deal about it.
That quality is, chiefly, what has made Mt. Kenya appreciate him and judge him as a person on his own (not as Kalenjin or someone always demanding "debt"). And majority has liked him.
Uhuru can scheme all what he likes with Raila but i guarantee you Mt. Kenya will not support him just because he himself will be PM. He has nothing to convince people with but his own greed to keep power.
Finally, anyone who thinks and believe that Raila just want "ceremonial President" need their IQ revisited or their brains operated on for there must be something wrong. Very wrong.
Yup. This is well known complete with a certifiable body of knowledge. Ngunyi whipped a thesis on this stuff. The continuing exodus of Gema from Tangatanga is also public knowledge.
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Imagine the sheer chutzpah of comparing the mass murder of thousands and the ethnic cleasing of hundreds of thousands of your pple to the horror of public looters having the law unleashed on them and loosing merely the seats they don't deserve by everyone's account. . . :D
Ajabu kweli.
I think for some, the real fear of BBI is the unraveling of a tribal configuration of politics that they like. Rutophilia would become Rutophobia, on a dime, had Uhuruto plans remained on course. That is as clear as day, in an otherwise very confusing political space.
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Kikuyus are the kingmakers of 2022.To win in 2022 one has to find a way to endear themselves to them.Raila things he has to make Uhuru happy with a deal he cannot refuse.Ruto although not averse to making a new deal with Uhuru is keen to cash on the last promisory note.The kikuyus are Keen to finally pay back.
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I think for some, the real fear of BBI is the unraveling of a tribal configuration of politics that they like. Rutophilia would become Rutophobia, on a dime, had Uhuruto plans remained on course. That is as clear as day, in an otherwise very confusing political space.
Uh? I don't get. Rutophobia, Rutophilia...?
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Garliv's and your prediction of Gema dumping Uhuru for Ruto is unprecedented and not backed by the evidence. And the plain lies about chiefs vetting raia you can't prove. We could have a thread on the defections from Ruto to Uhuru in Gema... the numbers are that high.
Kikuyus are the kingmakers of 2022.To win in 2022 one has to find a way to endear themselves to them.Raila things he has to make Uhuru happy with a deal he cannot refuse.Ruto although not averse to making a new deal with Uhuru is keen to cash on the last promisory note.The kikuyus are Keen to finally pay back.
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I think for some, the real fear of BBI is the unraveling of a tribal configuration of politics that they like. Rutophilia would become Rutophobia, on a dime, had Uhuruto plans remained on course. That is as clear as day, in an otherwise very confusing political space.
Uh? I don't get. Rutophobia, Rutophilia...?
There is a section of GEMA that like Ruto. But I think they only like him in so far as they can use him as a cudgel against Raila. I think that changes to dislike, if things were to align for him, such as consummation of Uhuruto pact. BBI has sown real confusion, certainly in Jubilee, but also the country at large.
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I think for some, the real fear of BBI is the unraveling of a tribal configuration of politics that they like. Rutophilia would become Rutophobia, on a dime, had Uhuruto plans remained on course. That is as clear as day, in an otherwise very confusing political space.
Uh? I don't get. Rutophobia, Rutophilia...?
There is a section of GEMA that like Ruto. But I think they only like him in so far as they can use him as a cudgel against Raila. I think that changes to dislike, if things were to align for him, such as consummation of Uhuruto pact. BBI has sown real confusion, certainly in Jubilee, but also the country at large.
So easy to tell them apart. They insist Raila is more responsible for PEV than the blokes actually prosecuted for it.
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You're still waiting for video evidence so you can accept evidence from NTV?. You're something. Is it mental illness or sheer desperation? or both.
GEMA refused to board MV Raila and all it's associated with vehicles(BBI, Handshake, ODM, Parliamentary, Executive PM).GEMA has a deal with Ruto they are keen on repaying.
That leaves us with the little matter of Uhuru - whom you reckon wants to continue (still conjecture ) as Executive PM and the guys around OP (like Matiangi) who are working on their own succession plan (Hint: they know the boss is retiring).
Will Uhuru go for BBI 2.0? We don't know. If I were him - I wouldn't have wasted the golden opportunity in BBI 1.0 - and then go the long route. It doesn't make sense.It also doesn't make sense to me that Uhuru will go for Ex PM - from being PORK. That level of desperation cannot come from a Kenyatta.
What makes sense is Uhuru is trying to loot as much as he can (Moi did this in 1996 & 2001) before he retires. He also doesn't want to become lame-duck. Therefore his anger - which seems restricted to GEMA - is on folks planning his succession while he is "alive".
It's kinda like my family situation now. My father is, of course, terminal ill - and has basically written a will - but I don't think he would like anybody planning the future without him when he is alive.
Bottom line: NOBODY KNOWS UHURU GAMEPLAN.
What we know for a fact is that Raila got SHOCKED BY BBI 1.0 and is trying a fightback to sneak in parliamentary & executive PM proposals that were "rejected" by Kenyans who wasted their time to go to BBI 1.0.
I think the fight-back is about to die - because after running around NASA strongholds - he has to sell BBI 2.0 (not BBI 1.0) to a hostile crowd at the center of the country - I guess we resume BBI drama when Moi is happily buried in Kabarak.
And still, we don't know what BBI 2.0 is all about? Will we have another BOMAS :) where radical changes are proposed : ) That would be hilarious. Or will we have a strange constitutional amendment bill on strength of Raila public rallies? That would open BBI to many court challenges..it public money.
Of course, we understand Raiala(via Orengo & Opiyo) desperation to have a referendum done by April or June - now that everyone is onboard BBI (BBI 2.0?), but we know the Kenya constitution that Raila says he is the father, has a very elaborate procedure for amending it - and every day it becomes harder & harder to do it before 2022.
All in all, Ruto is still sleepwalking to PORK.
Who Knows the Shy Engineering Lecturer Kibicho could engineer a referendum via Chiefs and force IEBC to declared it passed. The late Moi who still sent shivers down spines in Kenya many could never do that.
Garliv's and your prediction of Gema dumping Uhuru for Ruto is unprecedented and not backed by the evidence. And the plain lies about chiefs vetting raia you can't prove. We could have a thread on the defections from Ruto to Uhuru in Gema... the numbers are that high.
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Update: I think a parliamentary system has been dropped. ODM Baba wants Executive PM ( a bribe for Uhuru) and Regional gov (a bribe to 2nd term governors) - and the Raila get the 'ceremonial' PORK for rewarding everyone. Ujanja 101.
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Pundit that's a lovely speech. We may not know Uhuru gameplan but we know what he has been doing to Ruto and Tangatanga. He just fired his groupie Waititu and runningmate Kiunjuri to top up all the other transgressions on the partnership. Matiang'i is now the de facto DP.
My take on Uhuru squandering BBI 1.0 was calculation of the level of acceptance in Mt Kenya. Because he has been focused on that specifically with the farmer goodies, roads, promoting Munyas and Kagwes, intimidation of Kurias, ejecting Tangatanga from his meetings, etc. Ruto had in fact properly lined up Kiunjuris et al to oppose BBI in Nov last year.
Has Uhuru gained traction in selling BBI 2.0 in Mt Kenya? Yes he has. I have shown you the videos of cheering crowds as he addresses them all over about BBI. While your evidence of hostility is a single tweet from NTV. Governors, senators, MPs, MCAs have lined up behind him in accelerating numbers. The proof of this is their elaborate pro-Handshake and -BBI stand: they voted Handshake at CoG secret ballot. They impeached Waititu. They attend BBI rallies. What other sign of traction do you want?
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That last part of Mt Kenya supporting BBI 2.0 is unsupported. BBI 1.0 has no problem. Is Raila selling BBI - NO - he is selling BBI 2.0. Is Uhuru and Mt Kenya talking about BBI 2.0 - NO.
Once again, when you have VIDEO (VERIFIED) of Mt Kenya supporting the PARLIAMENTARY system of gov with Executive PM - Kindly post. That seems
your obsession anyway.
Technically speaking nobody is opposed to BBI - apart from Robina and Raila. Everybody is onboard BBI - because those cosmetic changes don't alter the constitution 2010 - which was a document that took a lot of years to birth.Altering the constitution to become Parliamentary IS BIG BIG project. You're requesting for an overhaul of the constitution at price of a handshake :)
Pundit that's a lovely speech. We may not know Uhuru gameplan but we know what he has been doing to Ruto and Tangatanga. He just fired his groupie Waititu and runningmate Kiunjuri to top up all the other transgressions on the partnership. Matiang'i is now the de facto DP.
My take on Uhuru squandering BBI 1.0 was calculation of the level of acceptance in Mt Kenya. Because he has been focused on that specifically with the farmer goodies, roads, promoting Munyas and Kagwes, intimidation of Kurias, ejecting Tangatanga from his meetings, etc. Ruto had in fact properly lined up Kiunjuris et al to oppose BBI in Nov last year.
Has Uhuru gained traction in selling BBI 2.0 in Mt Kenya? Yes he has. I have shown you the videos of cheering crowds as he addresses them all over about BBI. While your evidence of hostility is a single tweet from NTV. Governors, senators, MPs, MCAs have lined up behind him in accelerating numbers. The proof of this is their elaborate pro-Handshake and -BBI stand: they voted Handshake at CoG secret ballot. They impeached Waititu. They attend BBI rallies. What other sign of traction do you want?
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Wanjiku does not distinguish the pros and cons of BBI 1, 2, Z. She follows the leaders. That is why Kuria and Murkomen are gate-crushing Raila BBI rallies and promising their own. And Mt Kenya Tangatanga are stalking Uhuru. If BBI 2 is unveiled today, what will matter is the number of LEADERS that support it. Your MOAS theory of influencers is still in force. 8) If Johos and Kingis back it - Pwani will back it. If Kalonzo and Ngilus back it - Kamba back it. Ditto for Gema. That is why the defections are very key developments. The governors are leading the BBI charge. The senators are gone like only 3 are with Ruto. The MPs are going. MCAs are hard to track but the Kiambu Waititu outcome is significant. 2/3 sio mchezo it's a rout.
You can argue these folks - say Kimemia or Kinyanjui or Kanini Kega - are only supporting BBI 1. Not Wanjiku who will just follow what they say. What happens as more of them defect to Handshake?
But do you imagine the pro- Handshake Mt Kenya leaders don't know there is BBI 2 in the offing? Uhuru has promised them a continued stay in power - read the Sagana and Gicheha Farm minutes. Even the desperate Waititu and Sonko have openly endorsed him for Exec PM.
That last part of Mt Kenya supporting BBI 2.0 is unsupported. BBI 1.0 has no problem. Is Raila selling BBI - NO - he is selling BBI 2.0. Is Uhuru and Mt Kenya talking about BBI 2.0 - NO.
Once again, when you have VIDEO (VERIFIED) of Mt Kenya supporting the PARLIAMENTARY system of gov with Executive PM - Kindly post. That seems
your obsession anyway.
Technically speaking nobody is opposed to BBI - apart from Robina and Raila. Everybody is onboard BBI - because those cosmetic changes don't alter the constitution 2010 - which was a document that took a lot of years to birth.Altering the constitution to become Parliamentary IS BIG BIG project. You're requesting for an overhaul of the constitution at price of a handshake :)
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You explain what Uhuru has to offer after he has already served his 10yrs. Does Mt. Kenya just follow him blindly? For exactly what reasons can Gema abandon Ruto deal and make an incomprehensible one with Raila?
Garliv's and your prediction of Gema dumping Uhuru for Ruto is unprecedented and not backed by the evidence. And the plain lies about chiefs vetting raia you can't prove. We could have a thread on the defections from Ruto to Uhuru in Gema... the numbers are that high.
Kikuyus are the kingmakers of 2022.To win in 2022 one has to find a way to endear themselves to them.Raila things he has to make Uhuru happy with a deal he cannot refuse.Ruto although not averse to making a new deal with Uhuru is keen to cash on the last promisory note.The kikuyus are Keen to finally pay back.
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In 2022 Uhuru has POWER to offer same as 2013 and 2017. People want their man in power for easy access to state largesse, favors, etc. Who cares what Raila gets so long as they get the big seat? That question would be useful if Uhuru was to deputize Raila.
Now, why would Gema support Ruto to colonize them like Raila has done with the Luhya? That is what he is trying to do. Uhuru has Gema's best interest at heart. Uhuru has been a prince since he was born.. you don't understand leadership & strategy better than he. Ruto needs to be uprooted kabisa. Like Kalenjin did with Raila.
Ichung'wa, Kuria and Tangatanga tell them to follow Ruto. As more Mt Kenya influencers abandon him so will Wanjiku. Likewise if Linturi, Mpuri follow Kiraitu to Handshake - Meru will write off Ruto. Hakuna uganga.
You explain what Uhuru has to offer after he has already served his 10yrs. Does Mt. Kenya just follow him blindly? For exactly what reasons can Gema abandon Ruto deal and make an incomprehensible one with Raila?
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True Gema want their man in power or close to power but that person isn't Uhuru. Uhuru has served his 2013/17 terms.
And sincerely very few believe Raila is into this deal for some "Ceremonial President.." I don't. And you shouldn't believe it either.
For "abandoning Ruto" please you have your hopes too high. You will be disappointed when it matters most. Right now just a question of "pleasing the beast.." as it may "devour a few" to prove a point. And the "beast" has state machinery power so most can play nice until they don't have to.
In 2022 Uhuru has POWER to offer same as 2013 and 2017. People want their man in power for easy access to state largesse, favors, etc. Who cares what Raila gets so long as they get the big seat?
Ichung'wa, Kuria and Tangatanga tell them to follow Ruto. As more Mt Kenya influencers abandon him so will Wanjiku. Likewise if Linturi, Mpuri follow Kiraitu to Handshake - Meru will write off Ruto. Hakuna uganga.
You explain what Uhuru has to offer after he has already served his 10yrs. Does Mt. Kenya just follow him blindly? For exactly what reasons can Gema abandon Ruto deal and make an incomprehensible one with Raila?
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Simplistic. There are issues dear to people. Say if people of coast were to choose btw Majimbo and unitary gov. They would obviously go Majimbo. You're telling us GEMA will be steamrolled into supporting anything. That is hard to believe. The first resistance is right there in MPs and MCAs. The intimidated governors are btw a rock and hard place. All it takes is a court case to bring them down. Don't use them to judge anything. They are now official Kibicho biat.ches.
Wanjiku does not distinguish the pros and cons of BBI 1, 2, Z. She follows the leaders. That is why Kuria and Murkomen are gate-crushing Raila BBI rallies and promising their own. And Mt Kenya Tangatanga are stalking Uhuru. If BBI 2 is unveiled today, what will matter is the number of LEADERS that support it. Your MOAS theory of influencers is still in force. 8) If Johos and Kingis back it - Pwani will back it. If Kalonzo and Ngilus back it - Kamba back it. Ditto for Gema. That is why the defections are very key developments. The governors are leading the BBI charge. The senators are gone like only 3 are with Ruto. The MPs are going. MCAs are hard to track but the Kiambu Waititu outcome is significant. 2/3 sio mchezo it's a rout.
You can argue these folks - say Kimemia or Kinyanjui or Kanini Kega - are only supporting BBI 1. Not Wanjiku who will just follow what they say. What happens as more of them defect to Handshake?
But do you imagine the pro- Handshake Mt Kenya leaders don't know there is BBI 2 in the offing? Uhuru has promised them a continued stay in power - read the Sagana and Gicheha Farm minutes. Even the desperate Waititu and Sonko have openly endorsed him for Exec PM.
That last part of Mt Kenya supporting BBI 2.0 is unsupported. BBI 1.0 has no problem. Is Raila selling BBI - NO - he is selling BBI 2.0. Is Uhuru and Mt Kenya talking about BBI 2.0 - NO.
Once again, when you have VIDEO (VERIFIED) of Mt Kenya supporting the PARLIAMENTARY system of gov with Executive PM - Kindly post. That seems
your obsession anyway.
Technically speaking nobody is opposed to BBI - apart from Robina and Raila. Everybody is onboard BBI - because those cosmetic changes don't alter the constitution 2010 - which was a document that took a lot of years to birth.Altering the constitution to become Parliamentary IS BIG BIG project. You're requesting for an overhaul of the constitution at price of a handshake :)
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There have been good pointers to tell us the governors are not all in it out of fear. What has intimidated the senators? The Kiambu MCAs?
Their defections are temporary - is that what you mean?
True Gema want their man in power or close to power but that person isn't Uhuru. Uhuru has served his 2013/17 terms.
And sincerely very few believe Raila is into this deal for some "Ceremonial President.." I don't. And you shouldn't believe it either.
For "abandoning Ruto" please you have your hopes too high. You will be disappointed when it matters most. Right now just a question of "pleasing the beast.." as it may "devour a few" to prove a point. And the "beast" has state machinery power so most can play nice until they don't have to.
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Robina you keep saying MCAs to prove your point you offer Kiambu impeachment of Waititu as proof. For one there was never 2/3 majority at Kiambu Assembly that day. This is something provable beyond doubt. Second, there are MCAs who hated Waititu but that doesn't mean they are for BBI. Local politics and jealousies also contribute. Third, you heard Maina Kamanda (today's Uhuru's Kuria Kanyingi (henchman) in Mt. Kenya) openly bragging how they organised and executed Waititu impeachment. Fourth, there are those who also truly believed Waititu had to go but do not support BBI.
Am telling you, better believe it, all hell will break loose should be BBI be officially launched with Parliamentary/Regional as its core. For now Governors and all those "at risk of Uhuru/Raila anger" can proclaim their support for BBI but they mean CURRENT VERSION, not the one Raila/Uhuru wants. Current version is largely accepted. Therefore when you confidently proclaim "Governors/MPs/MCAs are defecting be aware there are several dynamics at play.
What is constant is support for Ruto as President. For overwhelming majority. And this is confusing Uhuru/Raila groupings. They are unable to separate acceptance or rejection of BBI to popularity of Ruto.
To answer your question, no there is no defection. Change of tactics. But when BBI version 2 is published then we shall know where chips fall. I understand the two clowns promised US President Trump they will have implemented "new" system within a year. Wacha tuone.
There have been good pointers to tell us the governors are not all in it out of fear. What has intimidated the senators? The Kiambu MCAs?
Their defections are temporary - is that what you mean?
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Btw @Robina, If Uhuru was getting into some arrangement with Ruto for him to come back as PM would you be supporting him? Would you be supporting them on the basis they implementing Parliamentary System?
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Explain the senators and Kiambu MCAs. They are Handshake.
If Raila, Joho and Kingi ask Pwani to back unitary government they will. Especially when one of their own is going to be PORK. Gema hoi polloi are not "attached" to presidential - that argument starts and ends with the leaders.
Simplistic. There are issues dear to people. Say if people of coast were to choose btw Majimbo and unitary gov. They would obviously go Majimbo. You're telling us GEMA will be steamrolled into supporting anything. That is hard to believe. The first resistance is right there in MPs and MCAs. The intimidated governors are btw a rock and hard place. All it takes is a court case to bring them down. Don't use them to judge anything. They are now official Kibicho biat.ches.
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Waitutu was caught with his hand on the jar.Why would kiambu support him.Those are local issues that you're conflating.Sonko will face the same fate even if he already offered Uhuru the 3rd term.
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Btw @Robina, If Uhuru was getting into some arrangement with Ruto for him to come back as PM would you be supporting him? Would you be supporting them on the basis they implementing Parliamentary System?
Yes. I already answered this question. Even now nothing stops Ruto from running for PM. Tough luck.
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Yea but we know it is politics first integrity last. Well you still need to explain the senate. Only 3 - Linturi, Kihika and Kinyua Nderitu - are with Ruto. Murkomen could only manage like 30% with Kalenjin as the core. Gema senators have abandoned Ruto.
Waitutu was caught with his hand on the jar.Why would kiambu support him.Those are local issues that you're conflating.Sonko will face the same fate even if he already offered Uhuru the 3rd term.
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Ruto imaginary numbers in the national assembly will soon be exposed. We already know he has minority senators and governors. Those "170" MPs that went to Naivasha should easily save his men in committee chairs.
https://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Rift-over-BBI-to-play-out-in-House/3126390-5449440-10nwpq1z/index.html
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Ruto was offering Waitutu moral support. He was gone anyway. He was just showing his loyalty. You need to see a senator consistently voting one way to conclude their position is this or that. Again your political naivety is showing up.
Politics is convincing the man on the ground. Only Raila has successfully transformed Luos into slaves. Otherwise the rest of communities there is robust debate leading to a position.
Therefore as long as Ruto has the mt Kenya ground - senators and governors - will eventually come home - like Moses Kuria has. 2021 is campaign year - and this year is Uhuru final year to get stuff done - otherwise from 2021 the GROUND RULES.
Yea but we know it is politics first integrity last. Well you still need to explain the senate. Only 3 - Linturi, Kihika and Kinyua Nderitu - are with Ruto. Murkomen could only manage like 30% with Kalenjin as the core. Gema senators have abandoned Ruto.
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Yes let us finally see how Tuju will ran the PG. It will be hilarious for the Kieleweke band of 10 mps to go against 170Mps.
Ruto imaginary numbers in the national assembly will soon be exposed. We already know he has minority senators and governors. Those "170" MPs that went to Naivasha should easily save his men in committee chairs.
https://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Rift-over-BBI-to-play-out-in-House/3126390-5449440-10nwpq1z/index.html
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Kenya red Alliance joins the frat
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Let me rephrase: would it bother you for Uhuru to scheme how to extend his term under the guise of implementing Parliamentary System if he was making a deal with Ruto?
Yes. I already answered this question. Even now nothing stops Ruto from running for PM. Tough luck.
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Murkomen was doing all those gymnastics for moral support? He attempted to stuff the impeachment committee with majority Tangatanga and was defeated. Lots of phone calls between Murkomen and Ruto, Sakaja/Kang'ata and Uhuru, Orengo and Raila. It was a proper battle.
Ruto was offering Waitutu moral support. He was gone anyway. He was just showing his loyalty. You need to see a senator consistently voting one way to conclude their position is this or that. Again your political naivety is showing up.
Politics is convincing the man on the ground. Only Raila has successfully transformed Luos into slaves. Otherwise the rest of communities there is robust debate leading to a position.
Therefore as long as Ruto has the mt Kenya ground - senators and governors - will eventually come home - like Moses Kuria has. 2021 is campaign year - and this year is Uhuru final year to get stuff done - otherwise from 2021 the GROUND RULES.
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No it would not.
Let me rephrase: would it bother you for Uhuru to scheme how to extend his term under the guise of implementing Parliamentary System if he was making a deal with Ruto?
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As usual Ruto and Tangatanga would be falling over themselves to please Uhuru. But I don't see a proper Jubilee PG happening soon. Tangatanga will just be kicked out of committees unceremoniously. Jubilee issues will remain unresolved.
Yes let us finally see how Tuju will ran the PG. It will be hilarious for the Kieleweke band of 10 mps to go against 170Mps.
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Pundit seem there will be no meeting after all. I thought mourning Moi ends on Wednesday.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2020-02-10-jubilee-postpones-friday-meet-to-mourn-moi/